Is it Time for a Big New Story Drop?

[BulbulusTheGreat]

17 hours ago, Jazulfi said:

I keep meaning but forgetting to ask -what's 'Date Night'?

 

17 hours ago, JakRoanin said:

Yeah what is it? I didn't hear anything about it.

its something that will probably be added, i think idea is still new/in the making but we will basically have date night with our romances, so far it seems they only did Lana and Arcann, there is an ingame error where you can find "lana/arcann date night souvenir" in vendors but its just a green cube or something since its not an actual item, idk was it removed but i remember finding it with gree vendors on illum, again i think its a very new idea and will probably be implemented in update after the next one, if its ever implemented (i hope it will be)


Swtorista covered it too 

https://swtorista.com/decorations/arcann-date-night-souvenir/
https://swtorista.com/decorations/lana-date-night-souvenir/

Edited November 17, 2023 by BulbulusTheGreat

[DWho]

5 hours ago, Stradlin said:

Significant portion of folks still playing TOR(or at least significant  portion of people posting on these forums) are absolutely fanatic about fully voiced PlayerChar.

That's really only part of the story too. The cost of voice acting is high but putting voice acting into 30-60 minutes of story has to be much more expensive per minute than longer stints. The way it is likely set up is that the voice actors charge a fee just for coming in to the studio and that cost is the same for 1 minute of dialog or an hour of dialog. They make most of their money on royalties. The longer the game lasts and the more profitable it is the more they make. The tiny non-paid expansions really get hurt by these costs where a longer expansion likely starts to run into some efficiencies that lower the relative cost.

Bioware (and now Broadsword) don't really know how much money they have to work with when you have a game that is likely now making most of it's revenue via Cartel Market sales (which is highly variable). Going the route of a paid expansion would allow them to predict what they had the money for a bit better. They could look at all the costs associated with it and determine a cost for the DLC based on estimates of how many people would buy it (and at this point, I believe a lot of people would buy yearly paid expansions).

There is a balance that can be achieved between the amount of voice acting and the amount of mission based content.

[JakRoanin]

<Sigh> Really, this debate is silly VA is a hallmark of this game! They're not going to chuck it! We should stop assuming its the most expensive game part of developing the game, we don't know that!

[Stradlin]

23 minutes ago, JakRoanin said:

<Sigh> Really, this debate is silly VA is a hallmark of this game! They're not going to chuck it! We should stop assuming its the most expensive game part of developing the game, we don't know that!

Fully voiced playerchar=48 different A-list voiceactors getting paid for basically  doing 48 "reruns" of the same role in each conversation,  Nobody knows the exact numbers, but lets not pretend like this isn't incredibly costly. 

It is common to have a typical (even somewhat dialogue heavy) Hollywood film with less speaking roles than that, heh. Imagine that! Tiny content patch in SWTOR  where nobody says anything at all, save for Playerchar greeting a wall with  "Hello there." takes more paid actors talking than entire  Reservoid Dogs or Alien or Terminator or...

But yeah, let's not assume.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 17, 2023 by Stradlin

[JakRoanin]

I'm just saying that we don't have the empirical data to support your assertion. Do you have the contracts of each VA? Do you know the Wage Rules for both the US and EU? Do you know which teams need studio time and which work from home? No. Then we don't know!

[xxSHOONYxx]

This were some articles when swtor came out.

https://www.fastcompany.com/1793534/bioware-bets-big-old-republic

"With hundreds of hours come thousands of characters–literally. So many of them, in fact, that this November, The Old Republic will enter the Guinness Book of World Records for having the biggest voice-over cast in entertainment history, with more than 1,000 actors speaking in three different languages. The game has between 250,000 and 280,000 lines of dialogue–the word-count equivalent of five Infinite Jests."

"Electronic Arts needs that kind of hit. In fiscal year 2009, the company lost $1 billion, followed by $677 million in 2010. For 2011, EA’s losses narrowed to $276 million, helped by $833 million in revenue from its burgeoning digital business. EA has sunk a tremendous amount of money into The Old Republic. In a meeting with analysts last March, CFO Eric Brown called it “the largest-ever development project, period, in the history of the company.”"

https://www.theverge.com/2011/12/20/2649516/star-wars-the-old-republic-available-ea-bioware

MMO developers have traditionally eschewed voice acting due to the prohibitive cost, but with an estimated budget of $150 million, EA and BioWare spared no expense for the SWTOR's narrative polish.

https://www.ign.com/articles/2012/01/21/star-wars-the-old-republic-cost-almost-200-million

Some surprising numbers about BioWare's massive MMO Star Wars: The Old Republic have emerged. Via the LA Times, the production cost for The Old Republic is reportedly just shy of US $200 million. The cost isn't so surprising when you factor in that almost 1000 voice actors were hired to bring 4000 characters to life.

Every article that goes into its costs and why it was so expensive talks about VA and why no other mmo does it, the cost it has. And if you factor it the different languages and multiple dialogue options the numbers skyrocket and why VA drains the budget swtor has.

Reportedly half of the initial budget went into VA, the other half was for writers, developers, coders, management, pvp development, pve development and so on...

[JakRoanin]

Okay, first Thanks for some actual DATA! Now, let's add some nuance here.

1. The game's initial development costs are irrelevant to this discussion because we're talking about the present and future, not 11 yrs. ago.

2. While there are a huge amount of speaking parts (not denying it at all) we have to remember that doesn't mean every Voice is done by a different Actor! For example, Troy Baker has done Zenith, Theron, and Indigo, as well as numerous shop keepers and ambient dialogue. Now, does he get a separate payment for each character? IDK, but I find it unlikely. So, point is, while there are a lot of actors. They do LOTS of different voices.

3. Perhaps the biggest expense for the Voice Acting is in fact, TIME not $$$$$! Now, that I agree is a major critique. However, from an immersion and artistic standpoint it does make this game SPECIAL.

4. The pandemic did a number on EVERYTHING, but when the game came out in 2011 VA's didn't have many home studios, now they do. Which might cut out a huge amount of cost that isn't factored in the past DATA.

All in all, To claim VA is the major enemy of content is extreme. I'm not denying it's impact but overstating it is also unhelpful!

[xxSHOONYxx]

54 minutes ago, JakRoanin said:

1. The game's initial development costs are irrelevant to this discussion because we're talking about the present and future, not 11 yrs. ago.

VA didn't suddenly got cheaper, especially after all the strike.
https://voiceovertip.com/highest-paid-video-game-voice-actors/
4 out of the 10 highest paid game VA are part of swtor. Plus Jenifer Hale that can't be cheap either.
VA IS the most expensive part of the game, those articles even said why it was not done before nor done now with success.
Everything else is mostly the wages of the devs, which also have to code new conversations. There are more VA than devs for a single PC to NPC interaction.
 

54 minutes ago, JakRoanin said:

Now, does he get a separate payment for each character?

If the production is handled through SAG/ AFTRA contracts, then the answer is almost always yes

Your earnings as a voice actor range from: $35 for a small market radio spot, $150 for a 15 second recording for say a small website, $250 – $350 for a 30 second major market radio commercial (Plus use fees). 

Doesn't say average for games, but same page goes on a different article about gaming VA

Video game voice over jobs are some of the most sought after in the voice over industry. It’s not surprising though. Voice over gaming offers voice actors the opportunity to be paid well and work on large projects

 

54 minutes ago, JakRoanin said:

3. Perhaps the biggest expense for the Voice Acting is in fact, TIME not $$$$$! Now, that I agree is a major critique. However, from an immersion and artistic standpoint it does make this game SPECIAL.

Both, making every actor available at some time can be a time or money sink too if paid to rush it, and unless they somehow all live on the same city, besides their fee, renting different recording studios throughout the world (1500-5000 dollars an hour according to google)/sound engineering and more.
 

54 minutes ago, JakRoanin said:

4. The pandemic did a number on EVERYTHING, but when the game came out in 2011 VA's didn't have many home studios, now they do. Which might cut out a huge amount of cost that isn't factored in the past DATA.

The cost to build a professional recording studio can vary, professional recording studio costs typically range from $30,000 and up to $400,000 or even more depending on the studio.
VA studios are not just a microphone and you are all set, you need sound engineers, ton of equipment, sound proofing and more. Not something you can have in your house unless you are a rich music star.
Plus they need the director or whatever it is they use for swtor to say if its okay, if to change the way they say it. put more emphasis on something and what not.
Pandemic increased swtor population by a lot, which would have made swtor make more money. If anything the pandemic was great for swtor as it was for anything that involved internet and computers.

Edited November 17, 2023 by xxSHOONYxx

[DWho]

28 minutes ago, xxSHOONYxx said:

4 out of the 10 highest paid game VA are part of swtor. Plus Jenifer Hale that can't be cheap either.

You're conflating two different things. Wanting voice acting is not the same as wanting specific voice acting. When launching a game you are looking for name/sound recognition of the voice actors (not that anyone really even knows who the voice actors in the game are - or for that matter cares). Eleven years on, that is a much less important factor. I doubt it would be hard to find much cheaper voice actors that sound similar enough to the original ones that people wouldn't even care.

Edited November 17, 2023 by DWho

[JakRoanin]

Okay again, thank you for the DATA. I won't assume you haven't watched the LiveStreams with the VA interviews but several have had their own studios installed in their homes. Post-Pandemic and SGA-AFTRA strikes the business model will be different from 2011. Again, I'm not trying to discount the very important points. However, it is important to remember that this is something SWTOR branded itself on.

I understand that you and others rightfully want more MMO stuff. I'm not saying that's bad. What I am saying is that SWTOR is something unique, and if you and others want it to be something it was never made to be, then you want a different game. Not SWTOR. I don't get it.

[SoyElSenado]

On 11/16/2023 at 4:58 AM, Stradlin said:

 

WoW sub isn't mandattory, you can play an  extremely restricted version of the game for free  to your hearts content. Just like you can try to cope in TOR with 1 million credits cap and all of the other restrictions.  (Which def is much more fair than wow's glorified trial for sure. ) Plus as previously  explained, you have the option to pay your sub for in game cash in wow.

It really isn't in practice  due to reasons explained to you by couple of different people. Maybe it is fair to say wow is monetized in more ways, but in practice it most certainly is much less predatory than TOR or TESO. 

Won't keep at this beyond  this post  either.

 

 

I appreciate your reasonable approach to this discussion unlike the other guy who was trying to argue that the WoW token isn't a microtransaction (when Blizzard itself categorizes it as such). I think we agree mostly here except I would contend that the WoW sub is mandatory to play the game. In WoW you can't play past level 20 and you can't communicate with other players without a sub. In SWTOR you can do the entire 8 vanilla stories without a sub; that is not even remotely close in terms of amount of free content. Most importantly, if you convert from a trial WoW account to a paid account/subscribe and then you unsub/expire, you lose access to your account and characters in WoW. That is a huge difference from SWTOR.  

For the record I'm really not trying to argue that SWTOR's monetization model is hugs and puppies wonderful. I'm diametrically opposed to gacha monetization techniques which SWTOR has with the hypercrate, and that alone is enough for me to call it at least somewhat predatory.  Ultimately I just feel that WoW should not be brought up as an example of a good monetization model compared to SWTOR. As you said, it is fair to say WoW is monetized in more ways. It may not have a predatory gacha mechanic like the hypercrate but it really is very over-monetized given the required subscription on top of there being a cash shop for in game currency and cosmetics. I think games should be one or the other, f2p with robust cash shop or subscription model with no cash shop. And definitely no gacha mechanics.

 

Quote

Monetization of TOR worked out well, they've made pretty good money considering the fairly small playerbase. Nowhere nearly enough for them to do actual expansions, ever.  Having as profitable MMO in live dev for 11+ years and delivering as little content as TOR has is truly exceptional.

Straight facts here. I 1000% agree and I think this speaks to the power of the Star Wars IP more than anything.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, xxSHOONYxx said:

 

The cost to build a professional recording studio can vary, professional recording studio costs typically range from $30,000 and up to $400,000 or even more depending on the studio.
VA studios are not just a microphone and you are all set, you need sound engineers, ton of equipment, sound proofing and more. Not something you can have in your house unless you are a rich music star.
Plus they need the director or whatever it is they use for swtor to say if its okay, if to change the way they say it. put more emphasis on something and what not.
Pandemic increased swtor population by a lot, which would have made swtor make more money. If anything the pandemic was great for swtor as it was for anything that involved internet and computers.

FWIW during and now post COVID, the voice actors for SWTOR (and other media) have been recording their lines at home so I don't think that's as much of an issue. The polishing can be done on the back end as long as they record it with high quality enough equipment. Someone in the community shared that they sold recording equipment to Xanthe Elbrick recently in NYC, and I forget if it was Nolan North or David Hayter who said in the last year at a convention that they recorded voice lines at home for SWTOR.

Still, I think the point is correct that the voice acting is a very big reason why the story content is generally so small. I also agree that this game is heavily carried by the voice acting for the story content and there is only so much non-voiced stuff they can get away with. The voice acting is simply too important for the player base. They can't get away with minimal story content like other MMOs have without player voice actors. Those MMOs, unlike SWTOR, actually have... you know, MMO content that gets routinely released, along with functional endgame PvP systems.

In the PvP thread someone from EU mentioned that he and other French/German players were upset that the recent survey was not translated to French or German (when translating that survey would  literally have cost like, less than 300 bucks). It got me thinking that perhaps in the intermediate term they plan on phasing out or severely limiting the localizations in French and German, but that may just be a conspiracy theory.

 

Edited November 17, 2023 by SoyElSenado

[Stradlin]

24 minutes ago, JakRoanin said:

Okay again, thank you for the DATA. I won't assume you haven't watched the LiveStreams with the VA interviews but several have had their own studios installed in their homes. Post-Pandemic and SGA-AFTRA strikes the business model will be different from 2011. Again, I'm not trying to discount the very important points. However, it is important to remember that this is something SWTOR branded itself on.

I understand that you and others rightfully want more MMO stuff. I'm not saying that's bad. What I am saying is that SWTOR is something unique, and if you and others want it to be something it was never made to be, then you want a different game. Not SWTOR. I don't get it.

 

Maybe you never noticed, but It was made to be, and remains,  an MMO. One that has obscenely expensive single player stories running within it, for  sure.

Development of many of the TOR's MMO aspects would be comparatively cheap and provide insane amount of longevity to anyone who actually enjoys them. Costly tiny story drops are very  expensive to produce and offer little to no longevity,  When BS releases 10 minutes worth of dialogue in map room and within some disposable FP, people are pretty much done with it in 10 minutes.

There are couple of different niches left, of people still interested of SWTOR. People who demand fully voice acted player chars at cost of everything else, game's survival included, is the largest group and essentially hold SWTOR as a hostage, BW/BS prolly still doesn't dare to ditch the voice acting because of how attached most are to hearing their character talk. So yeah, enjoy your yearly 10 minute map room get togethers.

It is so strange how many people still seem to consider "Hey! Broadsword, we want more fully voice acted story content"" as  this cool idea that BS/BW evidently just hasn't  figured out yet. As if it were some out of the box suggestion to be made here. Like after having read it,  devs slap their foreheads and go "oooh ofc!" story! they want more story!! howcome we didn't think of that!! Quick, Call our 100s of  VAs. Guys, to the writing room!" They know. They've always known. They can't do it in the scale people would like to see, they haven't been able to do it in 12 years.

 

PS

When gamers discuss their games, this " you don't have the data! Show me the exacting contracts of every voice actor who has ever voice acted or you have no point" is quite worn out and would easily serve as a gag order to literally anything anyone ever says here, yourself included.

[JakRoanin]

It is an RPG MMO and always emphasized RPG never emphasized as mmo! I'm not trying to gag anyone, raising valid counterpoints is never about gaging. Why are opposing points based on what the game IS seen as less valid than others? Why do passionate MMO oriented players completely unwilling to accept that this game was never intended to feature MMO as the basis of the concept of the game. Look at how it is advertised from day 1, until now. I don't understand why you all ignore that the RPG was always the main focus. 

[DWho]

16 minutes ago, Stradlin said:

Development of many of the TOR's MMO aspects would be comparatively cheap and provide insane amount of longevity to anyone who actually enjoys them.

But how many players is this really. And how does any of that bring in new players. Story remains the only content that brings in significant numbers of players and an infusion of players is what the game needs (it may be fleeting but if you don't bring them in there is no chance for the "MMO" content to retain them). All of the group content depends on a healthy player population which it does nothing to build. It's only claim is that at least we aren't losing players as fast. We are way past worrying about maintaining the status quo and the game desperately needs new players.

 

19 minutes ago, Stradlin said:

story drops are very  expensive to produce and offer little to no longevity,

I think you are speaking from your own personal bias here. I wouldn't consider myself an exception to what would be called an "average" player and I stayed around for the story (I still enjoy repeating the class stories on new characters, there is so much to explore). I'm sure there are a lot of other players that feel the same way. I got sick of the group content long ago and it is merely a side light now (It all starts to look the same since it is balanced for generic groups - there is a gimmick and a grind and its all pretty much downhill once you learn the gimmick). The number of complaints about group content pops compared to the game's population pretty much points out the fallacy of the argument that story has no longevity. It is certainly still the main draw of the game.

[OlBuzzard]

5 minutes ago, DWho said:

But how many players is this really. And how does any of that bring in new players. Story remains the only content that brings in significant numbers of players and an infusion of players is what the game needs (it may be fleeting but if you don't bring them in there is no chance for the "MMO" content to retain them). All of the group content depends on a healthy player population which it does nothing to build. It's only claim is that at least we aren't losing players as fast. We are way past worrying about maintaining the status quo and the game desperately needs new players.

 

I think you are speaking from your own personal bias here. I wouldn't consider myself an exception to what would be called an "average" player and I stayed around for the story (I still enjoy repeating the class stories on new characters, there is so much to explore). I'm sure there are a lot of other players that feel the same way. I got sick of the group content long ago and it is merely a side light now (It all starts to look the same since it is balanced for generic groups - there is a gimmick and a grind and its all pretty much downhill once you learn the gimmick). The number of complaints about group content pops compared to the game's population pretty much points out the fallacy of the argument that story has no longevity. It is certainly still the main draw of the game.

The problem my friend is that some folks believe that anything more than providing a place for PvP ..(gear for said area of development) and maybe a few high-end PvE areas is nothing but a total waste of resources.  In short it's all about what THEY want.

** Never mind the heritage that SWTOR once had (and has long since been pushed aside)
** Never mind the opportunity to rebuild the game, lay the foundation for MANY areas that would benefit everyone.  
** Never mind the amount of profits that SWTOR generated and was diverted to other EA projects.  (I didn't just imagine the posts that someone made almost 2 years ago when a similar discussion about the sad state of affairs the game was (and still is) in.
** Never mind the pleas that have been made repeatedly by (what at one time) was a MUCH LARGER audience (and still went on being ignored).

IMO it is definitely OVERDUE for a large story to drop.  IMO the story of Malgus is on life support.  Time to move on.  YES, the story has been reasonably well done.  BUT it is time to move things forward.

MMO's in general ARE expensive (in more ways than one).  The good ones always have been and always will be.  It takes a genuine commitment to this line of work to make it happen.  BUT .. IT CAN happen.

The simple fact is that SWTOR has been bleeding off numbers for a long time now.  IMO you can't blame the VA or expenses.
** Failed GS series
** Little or NO work on GSF (yes... I'm being polite).
** Poor gearing system
** The 10th (what was that event called ...  I forget. [/shrugs] Must not have been that important.]
** Dead companions (might as well be dead).
** Crafting??? Why would anyone even mess with it now???

This is just a short list.

Back to OP:  Yes we need the story to at least TRY to kick start the game again.

[OlBuzzard]

36 minutes ago, JakRoanin said:

It is an RPG MMO and always emphasized RPG never emphasized as mmo! I'm not trying to gag anyone, raising valid counterpoints is never about gaging. Why are opposing points based on what the game IS seen as less valid than others? Why do passionate MMO oriented players completely unwilling to accept that this game was never intended to feature MMO as the basis of the concept of the game. Look at how it is advertised from day 1, until now. I don't understand why you all ignore that the RPG was always the main focus. 

The RPG aspect while definitely a PART of SWTOR (and many MMO's) is usually more like a specialized area.  I have seen on more than one occasion where a server was dedicated to the RPG aspect of the game.

I don't hold it against anyone to enjoy it.  I personally don't get quite that wrapped up in ANY game.  IMO if the game is really balanced the RPG aspect is equally as much a part of a game as is PvP.

(Just my $.02 worth)

[JakRoanin]

Thank you for making my points better than I could. @OlBuzzard

[OlBuzzard]

1 minute ago, JakRoanin said:

Thank you for making my points better than I could. @OlBuzzard

You're very welcome!

[TrixxieTriss]

Still believe the only way they make a great expansion with a reasonable amount of content that isn’t filled with bugs or poorly designed systems, is to make it a paid expansion. Otherwise they can’t do enough of anything to make anyone happy. 

[Stradlin]

1 minute ago, JakRoanin said:

It is an RPG MMO and always emphasized RPG never emphasized as mmo! I'm not trying to gag anyone, raising valid counterpoints is never about gaging. Why are opposing points based on what the game IS seen as less valid than others? Why do passionate MMO oriented players completely unwilling to accept that this game was never intended to feature MMO as the basis of the concept of the game. Look at how it is advertised from day 1, until now. I don't understand why you all ignore that the RPG was always the main focus. 

You sure these  acceptance requests are travelling to the right direction?  Almost all  agree   Class stories are the beef and butter of the ..story aspect of this game.  Been 12 years now, without any shipmets of beef and butter.

 

Saying being an MMO isn't the basis of this MMO is awfully rich."Unlike Fords with stick- based gears, my Ford is fully automatic, therefore being a car was never a basis for it!"

[OlBuzzard]

11 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

Still believe the only way they make a great expansion with a reasonable amount of content that isn’t filled with bugs or poorly designed systems, is to make it a paid expansion. Otherwise they can’t do enough of anything to make anyone happy. 

Without question ... without doubt!  No such thing as a free lunch!

Trust the old man on this one!  You get what you pay for!

Been there... done that (I've now skipped over the cheap T-shirts and started a COLLECTION of hoodies).

😉

[OlBuzzard]

9 minutes ago, Stradlin said:

 

 

Saying being an MMO isn't the basis of this MMO is awfully rich."Unlike Fords with stick- based gears, my Ford is fully automatic, therefore being a car was never a basis for it!"

I think I know your problem ... BURY that useless FORD and snag a "Cuda" (w/426 Hemi).  That'll get the old adrenalin crankin'!

If ya can't find one of those ... I guess a Challenger Hellcat will do in a pinch!

[JakRoanin]

I am so confounded by what these guys actually played in 2011.

[BulbulusTheGreat]

1 hour ago, Stradlin said:

 

 

Saying being an MMO isn't the basis of this MMO is awfully rich."Unlike Fords with stick- based gears, my Ford is fully automatic, therefore being a car was never a basis for it!"

thinking this is a MMO based game rather than RPG is nothing short of delusional my friend, yes its a MMORPG but it focused more on RPG than MMO part since day 1

also beef and butter comment is completly subjective, i for once like DLC's more than some class stories, now i get it if you liked class stories more but that still doesn't change the fact game is more focused on RPG part of MMORPG.

Edited November 17, 2023 by BulbulusTheGreat

[Stradlin]

44 minutes ago, BulbulusTheGreat said:

thinking this is a MMO based game rather than RPG is nothing short of delusional my friend, yes its a MMORPG but it focused more on RPG than MMO part since day 1

also beef and butter comment is completly subjective, i for once like DLC's more than some class stories, now i get it if you liked class stories more but that still doesn't change the fact game is more focused on RPG part of MMORPG.

 

Thinking this Ford  is a car rather than a vehicle with fully automatic transmission is nothing short of delusional my friend , yes it is a CAR WITH AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION but..

 

There's a huge amount of narrative content in LOTRO, for example. Actually, sum of all parts considered, there is prolly much more story to be had there than in SWTOR.  Even, say, WoW has offered so much more story over last 10 years than TOR has. Suppose WoW, too is no MMO then. oO  Getting to hear Jennifer Hale talk is what sets RPGs apart from MMOs, I guess.

In general Bioware fully intentionally, bit arrogantly &for prestige and marketing reasons has, ever since ME 1 or so, tried to redefine what "RPG" is and what it means..But thats such an eternity topic, that lets not even go there. In Bioware world, it literally takes Shepard talking for game to be counted as an RPG.

 

And you are right, It is subjective, I never quite liked most of the class stories that much and actually enjoyed KOTFE more...for 10 hours. Like 8 years back.  When we get objective and speak of general trends rather than what you or I like  though, vast majority of people who speak of their enjoyment of TOR's story bits almost  always  speak of class stories. 

People who favor post launch story stuff over class stories are truly sith  out of luck, for such folks have gotten almost nothing, almost ever.  It is borderline terrifying what sort of a sum of all  parts narrative content released in last 11 years totals. Last story expansion was what...30 minutes of story progression?

 

It kinda feels like there is such an argument happening  here but I'm not rly sure what the bottom line to be argued about even is. People want more story and been asking for more story for 11 years. People get 20 mins of story  every 18 months or something. Where is the argument again? Nobody, dev or player,  reads these posts and goes "Oh wow, ok. you convinced me. I didn't realize you guys REALLY want more story! We gonna do 20 hours every 4 months from now on!\o/"

 

There was prolly a model for future class story expansions drawn in some little napkin back in 2011 or something. and that model prolly opened with " We need at least 2 million subs for all of the following:" That never happened, most people left.  We've been at plan B or C ever since.

 

 

Edited November 17, 2023 by Stradlin