Is it Time for a Big New Story Drop?

[Jazulfi]

3 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

Back on track, if they had to recast VA for swtor because the actor retired, died or didn’t want to do it anymore, I could respect that. But recasting to only save money is the lowest of the low. It’s like sacking more senior loyal employees with a wealth of experience to hire juniors with low experience because they’re cheaper. 

Exactly exactly exactly. 100%.

Can't 'like' enough but I've run out of 'like' privileges again.

[DWho]

17 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

Back on track, if they had to recast VA for swtor because the actor retired, died or didn’t want to do it anymore, I could respect that. But recasting to only save money is the lowest of the low. It’s like sacking more senior loyal employees with a wealth of experience to hire juniors with low experience because they’re cheaper.

I can respect that opinion, but they aren't exactly employees on retainer or anything. That said. I would prefer to keep them which means it definitely has to be a DLC and as a DLC, the VA is part of the story (a DLC without VA isn't acceptable - we're paying for the "original" SWTOR experience). I was looking for a middle ground between "get rid of VA" and "I'd quit the game if they dropped VA". Not every idea is golden, this one seems like it goes nowhere.

Edited November 18, 2023 by DWho

[JakRoanin]

That's just it though, 

Quote

the original SWTOR experience

is Story and Voice Acting, and MMO. Getting rid of any of these makes the game something it isn't!

[OlBuzzard]

22 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

I know this is a bit off track, but you brought it up 🤷🏻‍♀️

Personally, I disliked Ben Aflick as Batman & I still watched it because he still fits the role. But I refuse to watch a another version of Batman that has Robert Patterson playing Batman again. The casting behind that idea was absolutely ridiculous. Patterson is definitely no Batman, he’s more of a Robin, if anything. 

Back on track, if they had to recast VA for swtor because the actor retired, died or didn’t want to do it anymore, I could respect that. But recasting to only save money is the lowest of the low. It’s like sacking more senior loyal employees with a wealth of experience to hire juniors with low experience because they’re cheaper. 

This is correct:  However the point being contested is:
** New story means a lot more VA.  
** VA costs WAAAAY too much money.  Hense the debate over how to control that expense.  Please refer to my discussion over the AI / VA debate that went on (someone can look that up and bring it up if they want to.  I completely agree with you.
** It is obvious that some people prefer to eliminate story in lieu of everything else until everything else is fixed.  (Yeah ... good luck with that).

The actual topic was the value and necessity of another major story.  IMO that IS SWTOR.  Without that we have something a lot less than the game that once was.

Some people like that idea (doing away with VA / Story) and some of us think that is a big mistake!

[JakRoanin]

I don't understand how people concluded the VA is the problem to begin with. I mean, a global pandemic couldn't have anything to do with setting the development back? Why are people latching on to one thing as the entire problem?

[TrixxieTriss]

13 minutes ago, OlBuzzard said:

This is correct:  However the point being contested is:
** New story means a lot more VA.  
** VA costs WAAAAY too much money.  Hense the debate over how to control that expense.  Please refer to my discussion over the AI / VA debate that went on (someone can look that up and bring it up if they want to.  I completely agree with you.
** It is obvious that some people prefer to eliminate story in lieu of everything else until everything else is fixed.  (Yeah ... good luck with that).

The actual topic was the value and necessity of another major story.  IMO that IS SWTOR.  Without that we have something a lot less than the game that once was.

Some people like that idea (doing away with VA / Story) and some of us think that is a big mistake!

There is an easy solution that fixes both issues so everyone is happy. And I know you agree. Which is to change the business model so that expansions have to be paid for instead of it just being a 1 month subscription. 

The community shouldn’t even be discussing & arguing about cutting voice acting or story or PvP or other MMO content. Because that just puts dumb ideas into EA accountants minds on how to skimp on development & save money to make more profits.

We should be ALL advocating they change their business model to paid expansions so they can afford to do almost everything the community wants/needs to make the game more enjoyable for all. That way we aren’t at each others throats for limited development funds for our preferred content. 

Edited November 18, 2023 by TrixxieTriss

[xxSHOONYxx]

2 hours ago, JakRoanin said:

We're talking about what makes SWTOR different from WoW

Oh oh oh, i know this one.
One has thousands of subs and one has millions. And as a few years back one had around 23b revenue and the other 1b

[JakRoanin]

Just now, xxSHOONYxx said:

Oh oh oh, i know this one.
One has thousands of subs and one has millions. And as a few years back one had around 23b revenue and the other 1b

<sigh> you used to be fun. 

[Jazulfi]

8 minutes ago, OlBuzzard said:

Some people like that idea (doing away with VA / Story) and some of us think that is a big mistake!

But I think there's also an important distinction about what 'VA' actually means. I think a lot of people are suggesting that Player Character VA is cut back, but not NPC VA. The difference being the high number of repeated PCVA lines, which is thought to be very costly, over the mostly universal nature of NPC lines.

I don't want to lose PCVA at all but if it has to go, a substantial high-quality narrative-driven paid-for expansion could bridge that loss somehow? If it had excellent NPC VA around the player - including companions I might add - with a return to some Class Storylines, then maybe it would cushion the blow a bit? And maybe our PCs say fewer lines, rather than being entirely silent? I dunno, but I'd like to think if done well there is a solution in there somewhere.

[xxSHOONYxx]

10 minutes ago, JakRoanin said:

I don't understand how people concluded the VA is the problem to begin with. I mean, a global pandemic couldn't have anything to do with setting the development back? Why are people latching on to one thing as the entire problem?

Becuase its not something of the present. Always has been seen like that by many.
You can go back in the forum to 2012 and see all the posts about how VA is a waste, how the wasted too much on va unnecesarily and  wasted their budget and having no endgame, or others being worried about the future of swtor because it was not sustainable to have this VA

[xxSHOONYxx]

3 minutes ago, Jazulfi said:

But I think there's also an important distinction about what 'VA' actually means. I think a lot of people are suggesting that Player Character VA is cut back, but not NPC VA. The difference being the high number of repeated PCVA lines, which is thought to be very costly, over the mostly universal nature of NPC lines.

I don't want to lose PCVA at all but if it has to go, a substantial high-quality narrative-driven paid-for expansion could bridge that loss somehow? If it had excellent NPC VA around the player - including companions I might add - with a return to some Class Storylines, then maybe it would cushion the blow a bit? And maybe our PCs say fewer lines, rather than being entirely silent? I dunno, but I'd like to think if done well there is a solution in there somewhere.

Baldurs gate 3 has no PC VA and it's an amazing and immersive game. And its what most think will wi GOTY this year.
Is one of the only games i played that made me believe the smallest decision i made on a side quest could change the story immensely   

Edited November 18, 2023 by xxSHOONYxx

[JakRoanin]

2 minutes ago, xxSHOONYxx said:

Becuase its not something of the present. Always has been seen like that by many.
You can go back in the forum to 2012 and see all the posts about how VA is a waste, how the wasted too much on va unnecesarily and  wasted their budget and having no endgame, or others being worried about the future of swtor because it was not sustainable to have this VA

To which I ask again, WHY stick around and trash something that was never what you wanted.

[xxSHOONYxx]

1 minute ago, JakRoanin said:

To which I ask again, WHY stick around and trash something that was never what you wanted.

They didn't, thats why swtor subs went from +/- 2.2 million something in the first months to EA having to make swtor f2p. Those that did stayed for the hope that something as big as swtor couldn't fail and would get better, or friends. But that side of the player base has been getting pushed out since 4.0 especially, until now that is very small

Edited November 18, 2023 by xxSHOONYxx

[JakRoanin]

And now you want to turn the game into something it never was. 

[xxSHOONYxx]

12 minutes ago, JakRoanin said:

And now you want to turn the game into something it never was. 

I don't want to turn anything into nothing, i wish the best to swtor and the devs but i don't think this is salvable unless someone injects 30-50 millions and make a proper expansion bringing the mmo people they chased away.

Because right now they are on a corner that they can't get out of (which the devs/previous dev put themselves into), mainly casuals and story people play now, if they keep speding the few budget on story the game goes into a slow decline until closed, if they make repayable content instead of story their current player base will be upset and bioware already burned too many bridges with mmo people and they would need content + good pr + spending on advertisement. 

I'm simply pointing out what focusing on story (VA more than story, making story is not expensive is just lines of codes + a writer that is already on their monthly budget) has made to the game, with how outrageous expensive having a fully voiced mmo with different choices, different PCVA and different languages, that has always left the crumbs of the budget to the rest of the game developing.

Edited November 18, 2023 by xxSHOONYxx

[JakRoanin]

I give up. As a casual and a story player, I've put a tremendous amount of time money and effort into this game and what you are suggesting is the destruction of this game for me. 

[TrixxieTriss]

37 minutes ago, Jazulfi said:

But I think there's also an important distinction about what 'VA' actually means. I think a lot of people are suggesting that Player Character VA is cut back, but not NPC VA. The difference being the high number of repeated PCVA lines, which is thought to be very costly, over the mostly universal nature of NPC lines.

I don't want to lose PCVA at all but if it has to go, a substantial high-quality narrative-driven paid-for expansion could bridge that loss somehow? If it had excellent NPC VA around the player - including companions I might add - with a return to some Class Storylines, then maybe it would cushion the blow a bit? And maybe our PCs say fewer lines, rather than being entirely silent? I dunno, but I'd like to think if done well there is a solution in there somewhere.

And I’ll say it again for those in the back who obviously didn’t hear the first few times. 

“They don’t need to cut any VA. If they make us pay a reasonable amount for expansions”.

If we had to pay for expansions, like nearly every other game has too. They would still be able to budget in VA for smaller DLC in between major expansions. And people should have to subscribe to play any smaller DLC between major expansions.

Im sure none of us currently subbing would have a problem paying for an expansion. As long as those funds go towards developing swtor & not into shareholder pockets or executive bonuses. 

Edited November 18, 2023 by TrixxieTriss

[Jazulfi]

3 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

And I’ll say it again for those in the back who obviously didn’t hear the first few times. 

“They don’t need to cut any VA. If they make us pay a reasonable amount for expansions”.

 

Respectfully, I don't think you know that as a certainty, and I did say, 'if it has to go'.

But I entirely agree with you about paying for expansions, no matter what happens.

[TrixxieTriss]

11 minutes ago, Jazulfi said:

Respectfully, I don't think you know that as a certainty, and I did say, 'if it has to go'.

But I entirely agree with you about paying for expansions, no matter what happens.

Nothing in life is certain, except death.

It was an educated guess. But I’m sure Broadsword could easily find out if they asked every current subscriber. 

[Char_Ell]

17 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

Im sure none of us currently subbing would have a problem paying for an expansion. As long as those funds go towards developing swtor & not into shareholder pockets or executive bonuses. 

I'm not sure why you think you can speak for all current subscribers.  I'm quite sure a lot of current subscribers would have a problem paying for an expansion too, simply because the game left the pay-for-expansion model behind after RoTHC, if I recall correctly.  A lot of subscribers complained about a credit cost being added to Quick Travel after 10 years of not having any credit cost.  It seems logical to expect a lot of subscribers would complain about having to pay real money for an expansion in addition to the cost for subscription when they haven't had to pay for expansions in years.

[xxSHOONYxx]

30 minutes ago, JakRoanin said:

I give up. As a casual and a story player, I've put a tremendous amount of time money and effort into this game and what you are suggesting is the destruction of this game for me. 

Your reading comprehension must be very bad then, or my writing. 
I'm not suggesting anything, i'm saying the game is doomed no matter what they do because their decisions led to this situation. Unless a big influx of money goes they way and can do a proper expansion. And even then, there is trust they broke they would need to rebuild, how many people would get back with an ex that has lied multiple times because they now says "i changed"?

[OlBuzzard]

1 hour ago, TrixxieTriss said:

There is an easy solution that fixes both issues so everyone is happy. And I know you agree. Which is to change the business model so that expansions have to be paid for instead of it just being a 1 month subscription. 

The community shouldn’t even be discussing & arguing about cutting voice acting or story or PvP or other MMO content. Because that just puts dumb ideas into EA accountants minds on how to skimp on development & save money to make more profits.

We should be ALL advocating they change their business model to paid expansions so they can afford to do almost everything the community wants/needs to make the game more enjoyable for all. That way we aren’t at each others throats for limited development funds for our preferred content. 

You and I BOTH know where this is headed if something doesn't change for the better.  Doing away with the story / VA / companions ???  REALLY???

And there are some that wonder why skepticism has crept in and we are now to the point that many believe that it's RIP: SWTOR.

[/shrugs]

I not so sure I like where a lot of this is going anymore!

Oh well!

It's just a stupid game.  Right?

NO?

[/old man walks away quietly]

[Whykara]

1 hour ago, TrixxieTriss said:

The community shouldn’t even be discussing & arguing about cutting voice acting

I am hereby advocating for more voice acting. Give us voiced side quests again. The VAs are phenomenal, I want to hear more of them, not less. 

[Jazulfi]

Still an interesting thread, but I've said my bit and I'm going to step away. I think people are speaking at cross-purposes, not carefully reading and taking the time to understand each other properly (and there's a certain amount of 'c**k waving' going on). Which is a shame because I think most people are on roughly the same page and want the game to succeed again.

[Stradlin]

28 minutes ago, Char_Ell said:

I'm not sure why you think you can speak for all current subscribers.  I'm quite sure a lot of current subscribers would have a problem paying for an expansion too, simply because the game left the pay-for-expansion model behind after RoTHC, if I recall correctly.  A lot of subscribers complained about a credit cost being added to Quick Travel after 10 years of not having any credit cost.  It seems logical to expect a lot of subscribers would complain about having to pay real money for an expansion in addition to the cost for subscription when they haven't had to pay for expansions in years.

 Every single person posting  in this thread is okay with paying money for SWTOR content.  I bet literally everybody here, in truth, would be overjoyed with the notion of an actual, huge expansion for 40-60 bux. Its just that when one reads " TOR expansion" one thinks of..well, TOR expansions, which with notable exception of KOTFE era haven't been very expansive at all. People would love to see something similar in scope and scale to a typical wow expansion..which is pretty much unseen in SWTOR so far. Folks would pay for it. Some pathetic glorified daily area and 10 mins of story? Yeah, nobody will want to pay for that though.

 

Ofc doing something of this scale isn't just some decision waiting to be made at  BS. WoW does huge expansions, with a huge dev team. Maybe some Kickstarter type of thing where they ask folks to basically preorder an expansion that hasn't even begun production yet could work. Heck, add GSF stuff to stretch goals and I'd couhgh up money for that. 

 

 

Edited November 18, 2023 by Stradlin