344 gear... why?

[sharpenedstick]

Increasing gear leveling is how MMOs work.

[eabevella]

But there are no new, more difficult stuffs to do with those higher gears so what's the point?

[Lord_Malganus]

The only point is you have an option to grind for 4 more ilvls or not.

[Toraak]

BW said as the expansion goes on they would continue to increase the Item level floor and ceiling to make it easier for those that may struggle on content to be able to have an easier time on that content.

 

It may not be needed for you, but it may help those that are not as skilled as the top 2% to do some of the more difficult content.

 

The only question each person needs to decide is. "Is it worth my time to grind for the new gear, or do I not need it with my skill level."

Edited November 1, 2023 by Toraak

[sharpenedstick]

13 hours ago, eabevella said:

But there are no new, more difficult stuffs to do with those higher gears so what's the point?

In just about every MMO ever made, the highest gear tier is found in the highest level content, meaning it was cleared with lower level gear. So "what's the point" has never been about needing the gear to face higher difficulties (at the highest gear level), but instead it's the sense of completion/competiton/FOMO/keeping up with the Jonses, etc.

The goal of all game content, regardless of what it is, is to keep people playing. Providing another rung on the ladder is just meant to keep you online longer. That's it. That's the point.

[eabevella]

8 hours ago, sharpenedstick said:

In just about every MMO ever made, the highest gear tier is found in the highest level content, meaning it was cleared with lower level gear. So "what's the point" has never been about needing the gear to face higher difficulties (at the highest gear level), but instead it's the sense of completion/competiton/FOMO/keeping up with the Jonses, etc.

The goal of all game content, regardless of what it is, is to keep people playing. Providing another rung on the ladder is just meant to keep you online longer. That's it. That's the point.

340=HM R4

344=?

(I know what you meant but they don't even bothered to make a newer highest lv content to justify the i-level raise)

[fabsus]

2 hours ago, eabevella said:

340=HM R4

344=?

(I know what you meant but they don't even bothered to make a newer highest lv content to justify the i-level raise)

344 = df storymode, nefra nim and chapter 2 kotfe. so the real hard stuff

but there are coming some class changes with the new gear, to compansate it.
and if you are just doing 20k with 336, you won't even do 1k more with 344.
this just keeps casuals active to grind more storymode operations, taking way
longer than playing the content rakata should drop.

actually i don't care at all. gear in swtor is that irrelevant, that we also could get
rid of it at all. and actually the change are exactly that. giving everybody everything,
just with a different time scale.

Edited November 2, 2023 by fabsus

[eabevella]

1 hour ago, fabsus said:

344 = df storymode, nefra nim and chapter 2 kotfe. so the real hard stuff

but there are coming some class changes with the new gear, to compansate it.
and if you are just doing 20k with 336, you won't even do 1k more with 344.
this just keeps casuals active to grind more storymode operations, taking way
longer than playing the content rakata should drop.

actually i don't care at all. gear in swtor is that irrelevant, that we also could get
rid of it at all. and actually the change are exactly that. giving everybody everything,
just with a different time scale.

At least it's not the walker chapter, that's real hardcore content

[psikofunkster]

On 10/31/2023 at 7:19 PM, sharpenedstick said:

Increasing gear leveling is how MMOs work.

You forgot one little thing: Increasing gear leveling and adding new content to play with that gear is how MMOs work.

 

 

 

Edited November 3, 2023 by psikofunkster

[DeannaVoyager]

On 11/2/2023 at 9:24 AM, fabsus said:

but there are coming some class changes with the new gear, to compansate it.
and if you are just doing 20k with 336, you won't even do 1k more with 344.
this just keeps casuals active to grind more storymode operations, taking way
longer than playing the content rakata should drop.
 

Spot on. So many different types and level of gear makes little to no difference on the amoung of damage people do. They either know how to play or they don't. All it does is keep people grinding same thing over and over again, which I think is very harmful for the game. Instead of learning to play better, progging harder content or learning new classes people are now mostly doing DF+DP story mode day in day out. They've abandoned all other content just to be able to farm those two ops, and I guess soon there will be Nefra farming too. Yay. When they eventually get BiS gear, there will be new tier, yet they still don't know how to play better, because they spent their time farming instead of learning. 

 

[Toraak]

21 minutes ago, DeannaVoyager said:

Spot on. So many different types and level of gear makes little to no difference on the amoung of damage people do. They either know how to play or they don't. All it does is keep people grinding same thing over and over again, which I think is very harmful for the game. Instead of learning to play better, progging harder content or learning new classes people are now mostly doing DF+DP story mode day in day out. They've abandoned all other content just to be able to farm those two ops, and I guess soon there will be Nefra farming too. Yay. When they eventually get BiS gear, there will be new tier, yet they still don't know how to play better, because they spent their time farming instead of learning. 

 

I don't know what server your playing on, but I do see a lot of pugs running all sorts of the older Story mode Ops on Star Forge. It's not just DF/DP. EV, KP are run all the time as are TFB, SnV, ToS and EC.

 

The ones I seldom see people looking for groups in fleet chat are Gods, Dxun, and R-4 (sm). 

 

Edit: HM's are advertised in Fleet rarely, but I've seen them in the allies chat from time to time as well. I'm sure NiM Nefra will makes it's comeback soon enough.

Edited November 3, 2023 by Toraak

[Lord_Malganus]

In keeping it real, anything less than a 10ilvl increase is not raising the power ceiling. The 4ilvl increase is simply another gear grind that was easy for them to implement.

However, players can choose to do it or not.

Personally, I'm not wasting time chasing gear that will be less effective than what I already have. 4ilvl's is just to negligible of an increase to even justify the costs of removing and replacing augments. It's such a lazy and pointless game design change it's laughable.

[fabsus]

what's the deal? first week you change your r4-tokens into 342 and upgrade it with all the op-1 you have.
first week and ur done. at the end, everybody will do it, needed or not.

[TrueJediLord]

On 10/18/2023 at 1:22 PM, TheRandomno said:

The livestream announced that the max item rating will be raised to 344. As far as I can remember, every new tier of gear has accompanied new content for that gear. For example, 340 gear for R4, 258 gear for Gods from the Machine MM, or 186 gear for Dread Fortress/Dread Palace NiM.

One option would have been to make 340 gear more accessible. Raising the item level again will make Master Mode operations even more undertuned, having already had the cap raised from 330 to 340, and boss HP nerfed.

I get that and some people have some frusturations. me i am seeing this as a way for alot more people to get to 340ish modible gear, or 344 in Rekata Gear all the way to clear R4SM and HM. and redo some of the other old favorites. i kinda hoped by now they would bring back EV NiM, KP NiM for gear hunting for fun wise but ehh oh well. but yeah thats all i have to say from this. 

[Qua-Tari]

Realistically, from a notorious casual perspective, I'll happily take higher item rating - higher stats - although as other people said here previously, you could solo Veteran Flashpoints easily already with 326 / 332 gear at the start of 7.0, even more so with 336 currently. With 340 it'll be probably become an option to manage MM FPs solo, we'll see.

But that is my personal perspective of trying out solo as hardest content as can be done, which I have fun doing to test the limits of a solo challenge, it's not for everyone. And being able to solo group content is not so beneficial for grouping climate in the game, which is also a downside of it.

It might have been actually more useful to return artifact (gold) tiered gear and mods to the game, at least for the people who do OPs, than raise the gear level again now. The stats would roughly stay the same with artifact tier, without the inflated bit of gear level increase, with no content to justify for it.

[fabsus]

1 hour ago, Qua-Tari said:

[...] With 340 it'll be probably become an option to manage MM FPs solo, we'll see.

[...]

this is exactly where the misconception lies. if you can't do mm-fp with 336 equipment, then the 340 or 344 won't help either, because the difference here is not the few stats, but that you play mechanics cleanly and understand the class.
if you only do 20k dps with your 336 now, you won't manage 21k with 344 either. 
it's simply a lack of understanding of the basics.

if you want to run mm-fp, then just do it. you'll find that even with hammer station you have to use your defs correctly and the order of your opponents also plays a role. you also have to micromanage your companions. 

above all, keep in mind that even before the nerf, people were running mm-fp with 330 gear, solo.
but if you want it, you'll make it, even with 336s. i believe in you!

Edited November 8, 2023 by fabsus

[LJ_Gibbs]

On 11/7/2023 at 7:25 AM, TrueJediLord said:

or 344 in Rekata Gear all the way to clear R4SM and HM.

Clear R4SM lol.

How old is the Op?  I would like to know what the percentage clear is.  (My team can't clear it).

[ZUHFB]

10 hours ago, LJ_Gibbs said:

Clear R4SM lol.

How old is the Op?  I would like to know what the percentage clear is.  (My team can't clear it).

dw that guy couldn't spell rakata even though its in the story

but your team could clear, the problem is probably the raidlead in this case because assignments are either not done or poorly done, of course it won't work then

[LD_Little_Dragon]

9 hours ago, ZUHFB said:

dw that guy couldn't spell rakata even though its in the story

but your team could clear, the problem is probably the raidlead in this case because assignments are either not done or poorly done, of course it won't work then

Why put it on the raid lead?  You are forgetting that some prog teams are not at NiM, or even hardmare level yet.

Every raid member has to do their job and the mechanics well, no amount of shuffling can turn a HM level player into a NiM level player instantly.

[xxSHOONYxx]

1 hour ago, LD_Little_Dragon said:

Why put it on the raid lead?  You are forgetting that some prog teams are not at NiM, or even hardmare level yet.

Every raid member has to do their job and the mechanics well, no amount of shuffling can turn a HM level player into a NiM level player instantly.

For SM r4 you don't need any hard/hardmare/nim level of skills and the mechanics are not that hard either.
If people have not cleared it yet is because they don't know what is happening/how the mechanics really work or have good strategy. 
Things that are usually on the raid lead to dictate/explain on a raid that has been out this long. 

Others already did the hard work of making the strategies the rest will follow, there are several guides out there for it and videos of kills to see how it can be done. 
Or even some "tips and tricks" for dom that biggs did like: 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBgo2KZIVBQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSgG7jwtd-0

And if people still have more questions or need more tips they can always go to a raiding discord and ask. Pretty sure If anyone goes with the right attitude of going to learn people will help them.
There is really no reason to not have finished r4 with all the information that is out there or that can be asked from others. 
Issue is that some of those people that complain about r4 sm difficulty then try to discuss when a person is trying to help them

[ZUHFB]

12 hours ago, xxSHOONYxx said:

If people have not cleared it yet is because they don't know what is happening/how the mechanics really work or have good strategy. 

Exactly right, and in a SM team its unrealistic that everybody knows their classes basics, therefor its the raidleaders job to do it.

[LJ_Gibbs]

Thanks for mansplaining everyone.  Heaven forbid casuals get to play all of the game too.  Thanks for gatekeeping because ... "git gud"

When has a STORY mode in this game ever needed that much progression?  None.  That's my whole point.

Story modes are made for teams to get through the STORY of the operation, isn't it?

It shouldn't REQUIRE voice chat and that much coordination.  Not asking for a faceroll... but two tweaks would make it less Hard Mode... because it is right now... Lady Dom is anyway.  Take out two of the knockbacks... and the stunners in burn phase and it would be just fine.  Asking 4 STORY MODE raid people to be able to coordinate those is just stupid.  STORY.

Let's also not talk about the bug that causes people to end up under the whole room and unable to do anything but /stuck.

They've taken out the 3rd phase of Calphayus (?) in the Dread Op... yes, I know it's an old op.  my point is... this Op is over a year old.  Nothing is lost if they fix those two things.

Edited November 10, 2023 by LJ_Gibbs

[Toraak]

42 minutes ago, LJ_Gibbs said:

Thanks for mansplaining everyone.  Heaven forbid casuals get to play all of the game too.  Thanks for gatekeeping because ... "git gud"

When has a STORY mode in this game ever needed that much progression?  None.  That's my whole point.

Story modes are made for teams to get through the STORY of the operation, isn't it?

It shouldn't REQUIRE voice chat and that much coordination.  Not asking for a faceroll... but two tweaks would make it less Hard Mode... because it is right now... Lady Dom is anyway.  Take out two of the knockbacks... and the stunners in burn phase and it would be just fine.  Asking 4 STORY MODE raid people to be able to coordinate those is just stupid.  STORY.

Let's also not talk about the bug that causes people to end up under the whole room and unable to do anything but /stuck.

They've taken out the 3rd phase of Calphayus (?) in the Dread Op... yes, I know it's an old op.  my point is... this Op is over a year old.  Nothing is lost if they fix those two things.

Actually up until 4.0 Story mode Operations when they came out actually weren't anywhere close to as easy as they are now. You actually had to know your class, and know mechanics or you would fail at them.

 

The new skill level of the current Legacy storymode Operations started in 4.0 with level sync, and has continued to make them easier as the years went by.

 

Edit: I remember attempting to pug DF story mode 16 back in 2.x, and the pugs didn't get the concept of Interrupts on the Corruptors during Gate commander fight. After about an hour we realized this wasn't going to happen and many of us left. Back then if you missed the interrupts the affliction DoT actually hurt you, instead of what it does now.

Edited November 10, 2023 by Toraak

[xxSHOONYxx]

43 minutes ago, LJ_Gibbs said:

Thanks for mansplaining everyone.  Heaven forbid casuals get to play all of the game too.  Thanks for gatekeeping because ... "git gud"

When has a STORY mode in this game ever needed that much progression?  None.  That's my whole point.

Story modes are made for teams to get through the STORY of the operation, isn't it?

It shouldn't REQUIRE voice chat and that much coordination.  Not asking for a faceroll... but two tweaks would make it less Hard Mode... because it is right now... Lady Dom is anyway.  Take out two of the knockbacks... and the stunners in burn phase and it would be just fine.  Asking 4 STORY MODE raid people to be able to coordinate those is just stupid.  STORY.

Let's also not talk about the bug that causes people to end up under the whole room and unable to do anything but /stuck.

They've taken out the 3rd phase of Calphayus (?) in the Dread Op... yes, I know it's an old op.  my point is... this Op is over a year old.  Nothing is lost if they fix those two things.

 

19 hours ago, xxSHOONYxx said:

Issue is that some of those people that complain about r4 sm difficulty then try to discuss when a person is trying to help them

 

[LJ_Gibbs]

37 minutes ago, Toraak said:

Actually up until 4.0 Story mode Operations when they came out actually weren't anywhere close to as easy as they are now. You actually had to know your class, and know mechanics or you would fail at them.

 

 

That was a different time.  They made the game faceroll.... you can't just walk that back.