Mission Share Suppression in PvP?

[Darkestmonty]

2 hours ago, DeannaVoyager said:

My response was he was not being afk if he knew who to start harassing, and like it or not, you brought it on yourself. You also didn't answer: what did you expect would happen when you started pointing fingers? That he's suddenly start playing properly? Finger pointing and blaming is one of the reasons why pvp has such a toxic reputation. Obviously afkers are not innocent of causing trouble, I am not defending them, but no-one forced you to start calling him out causing trouble for the team as well. 

Player runs under our spawn at the start of the game and doesn't move. Team is complaining about why we behind and I tell them "the player AFKing under our spawn isn't helping". He starts up a macro to spam symbols on my head which lasts the whole game.

What did I expect? Nothing for that game but to point out to the team one of the issues with PvP is that players can join a game, AFK and still get the same rewards as people who are trying to win (and reducing the teams chance to win now they have dead weight taking up spot and this particular AFKer is now harassing the team making it impossible to mark enemies).

Edited August 30, 2023 by Darkestmonty

[Lord_Malganus]

Pvp design allows that to happen.

[DeannaVoyager]

16 hours ago, Darkestmonty said:

Player runs under our spawn at the start of the game and doesn't move. Team is complaining about why we behind and I tell them "the player AFKing under our spawn isn't helping". He starts up a macro to spam symbols on my head which lasts the whole game.

What did I expect? Nothing for that game but to point out to the team one of the issues with PvP is that players can join a game, AFK and still get the same rewards as people who are trying to win (and reducing the teams chance to win now they have dead weight taking up spot and this particular AFKer is now harassing the team making it impossible to mark enemies).

 

But you contributed to that. Before you called him out, he was just standing still not bothering anyone. After you decided to call him out, he started to harass you with the markers. Would have been better if you'd just leave him alone, no?

 

Anyhow, the reason why I called you out on your responsibility on the event was to show you your own reaction to someone random calling you out on w/e. You reacted as I expected. You shouldn't expect others to react any differently, when you call them out. 

[Darkestmonty]

50 minutes ago, DeannaVoyager said:

But you contributed to that. Before you called him out, he was just standing still not bothering anyone. After you decided to call him out, he started to harass you with the markers. Would have been better if you'd just leave him alone, no?

Anyhow, the reason why I called you out on your responsibility on the event was to show you your own reaction to someone random calling you out on w/e. You reacted as I expected. You shouldn't expect others to react any differently, when you call them out. 

I reacted how? By telling you that victim blaming is wrong? Yeah, I guess that was my bad.

Edited August 31, 2023 by Darkestmonty

[septru]

2 hours ago, DeannaVoyager said:

Before you called [the AFKer] out [for AFKing], he was just standing still not bothering anyone.

I can't tell if @DeannaVoyager is a troll or not, but this part literally made me spit out my drink out of laughter. 😂😂😂

[SteveTheCynic]

3 hours ago, DeannaVoyager said:

he was just standing still not bothering anyone

"not bothering anyone" is highly debatable in the context of a PvP AFKer.  After all, he was dragging down the team's score by refusing to do anything useful.  (I'd say much the same thing about someone mostly-AFKing in an FP or Op or Up, to be honest.)

[VegaMist]

5 hours ago, DeannaVoyager said:

Before you called him out, he was just standing still not bothering anyone.

AFK-ers are bothering EVERYONE on the team. They're not just "standing still" - they are actively hurting the entire team by refusing to participate in a match they chose to queue for. It's really weird to see ANYONE defending AFK-ing behavior, and attacking a person who rightfully called one out.

Suggestion to @Darkestmonty, next time you see a deliberate AFK-er like that (especially when it's repeated behavior) - report them. You won't get a response - but it does work. I personally saw a frequent AFK-er (who was reported by multiple people) complaining in fleet chat "you all got my toons banned" - it was a temporary ban, but it did seem to tame that person's AFK habits (if not the temper).

[Lord_Malganus]

36 minutes ago, VegaMist said:

It's really weird to see ANYONE defending AFK-ing behavior, and attacking a person who rightfully called one out.

 

Its defended behavior by the Pvp design itself is weird indeed.

Edited August 31, 2023 by Lord_Malganus

[VegaMist]

9 minutes ago, Lord_Malganus said:

Its defended behavior by the Pvp design itself is weird indeed.

Unfortunately, you are correct - there is currently no way preventing it other than players reporting the offender (which may prevent future offences but won't help during that particular match).

[DeannaVoyager]

On 8/31/2023 at 3:47 PM, Darkestmonty said:

I reacted how? By telling you that victim blaming is wrong? Yeah, I guess that was my bad.

Victim blaming? Wow, you literally don't get the point. 

[DeannaVoyager]

On 8/31/2023 at 8:47 PM, VegaMist said:

AFK-ers are bothering EVERYONE on the team. They're not just "standing still" - they are actively hurting the entire team by refusing to participate in a match they chose to queue for. It's really weird to see ANYONE defending AFK-ing behavior, and attacking a person who rightfully called one out.

Suggestion to @Darkestmonty, next time you see a deliberate AFK-er like that (especially when it's repeated behavior) - report them. You won't get a response - but it does work. I personally saw a frequent AFK-er (who was reported by multiple people) complaining in fleet chat "you all got my toons banned" - it was a temporary ban, but it did seem to tame that person's AFK habits (if not the temper).

Yes, they are hurting the team by not doing anything, but when they start to retaliate (like this guy did), they will hurt the team even more. 

There is literally no point in calling them out or getting toxic (deserved or not), as the example proves. Reporting is the only thing anyone can do and I'm glad to hear it's actually worked. But there is no excuse to get toxic towards anyone and I'm surprised so many people are fine with spreading the poison, as long as the target is "correct" instead of just playing the game. 

[Darkestmonty]

11 minutes ago, DeannaVoyager said:

Yes, they are hurting the team by not doing anything, but when they start to retaliate (like this guy did), they will hurt the team even more. 

There is literally no point in calling them out or getting toxic (deserved or not), as the example proves. Reporting is the only thing anyone can do and I'm glad to hear it's actually worked. But there is no excuse to get toxic towards anyone and I'm surprised so many people are fine with spreading the poison, as long as the target is "correct" instead of just playing the game. 

nah, I'm still going to call them out and make sure everyone knows one of the reasons we are so far behind is an AFKer is literally sabotaging our team.

[DeannaVoyager]

13 minutes ago, Darkestmonty said:

nah, I'm still going to call them out and make sure everyone knows one of the reasons we are so far behind is an AFKer is literally sabotaging our team.

Do whatever you want to, not my problem as I don't play pvp. But then don't come here to whine when someone retaliates. You're not any better.

[VegaMist]

1 hour ago, DeannaVoyager said:

Yes, they are hurting the team by not doing anything, but when they start to retaliate (like this guy did), they will hurt the team even more. 

There is literally no point in calling them out or getting toxic (deserved or not), as the example proves. Reporting is the only thing anyone can do and I'm glad to hear it's actually worked. But there is no excuse to get toxic towards anyone and I'm surprised so many people are fine with spreading the poison, as long as the target is "correct" instead of just playing the game. 

You are in the wrong here. Calling out bad behavior is NOT toxic, neither in game nor in life. Being afraid of calling someone out for bad behavior because they "might" retaliate - is just fear talking. Hissing at someone because they are not afraid to call out a bad player is an attempt to justify your own fear (btw, it's not working).

[DeannaVoyager]

20 hours ago, VegaMist said:

You are in the wrong here. Calling out bad behavior is NOT toxic, neither in game nor in life. Being afraid of calling someone out for bad behavior because they "might" retaliate - is just fear talking. Hissing at someone because they are not afraid to call out a bad player is an attempt to justify your own fear (btw, it's not working).

Guess we'll just disagree on that then. What you see as fear talking, I see as avoiding unnecessary conflicts because conflicts don't make the match better, they make it worse when people not only have to fight the enemy team, they are fighting their own team as well at the same time.  No-one will change their behaviour because a random person in the internet "calls them out".  

 

For example if they afk, they are not going to start playing just because tells them to. So it's completely pointless to start telling them off, unless the purpose is to pick up a fight. 

If someone shows up in subpar gear rating, there is nothing you can do to change that during the match, but you can whisper them how to get better gear for next match. Getting confrontational in public chat is not needed and it rarely results in anything good.

[VegaMist]

1 hour ago, DeannaVoyager said:

Guess we'll just disagree on that then. What you see as fear talking, I see as avoiding unnecessary conflicts because conflicts don't make the match better, they make it worse when people not only have to fight the enemy team, they are fighting their own team as well at the same time.  No-one will change their behaviour because a random person in the internet "calls them out".  

 

For example if they afk, they are not going to start playing just because tells them to. So it's completely pointless to start telling them off, unless the purpose is to pick up a fight. 

If someone shows up in subpar gear rating, there is nothing you can do to change that during the match, but you can whisper them how to get better gear for next match. Getting confrontational in public chat is not needed and it rarely results in anything good.

If someone shows up in subpar gear, they can get better gear over time and get better - watched multiple players progress like that. When someone is a repeated AFK-er, being ignored is exactly what they want (makes them comfortable to continue). When they get called out, it's way less comfortable. If they get reported, they may face additional consequences (temporary ban). If they get called out frequently, it becomes harder for them to AFK since a) more people are likely to report them (without call out, some might not even realize they have AFKer on the team), and b) it's not easy to ignore being called out, which is why they may hiss back and consequently increase their chances of being reported by multiple people even higher.

Edited September 3, 2023 by VegaMist

[SteveTheCynic]

4 hours ago, VegaMist said:

When someone is a repeated AFK-er, being ignored is exactly what they want

Subject to the difference between being ignored and being /ignored.  They *don't* want to end up on *everyone's* /ignore list because it means they end up being unable to nonparticipate(1) in Warzones, and can't possibly get credit for just being there.

Clearly what OP's person was doing should be actionable on /report (on the basis of actively interfering in the gameplay of the other people in the team), but it's not clear whether *just* AFK-ing quietly is actionable on /report.  (I'd say it should be, subject to a human review of the logs.)

(1) Meaning "show up and don't participate".

[VegaMist]

8 hours ago, SteveTheCynic said:

Subject to the difference between being ignored and being /ignored.  They *don't* want to end up on *everyone's* /ignore list because it means they end up being unable to nonparticipate(1) in Warzones, and can't possibly get credit for just being there.

Clearly what OP's person was doing should be actionable on /report (on the basis of actively interfering in the gameplay of the other people in the team), but it's not clear whether *just* AFK-ing quietly is actionable on /report.  (I'd say it should be, subject to a human review of the logs.)

(1) Meaning "show up and don't participate".

"Ignore list" is ignored in PVP, so adding someone to "ignore list" won't prevent anyone on that list from being on the same team with you. It only works for PVE matchmaking.

[SteveTheCynic]

38 minutes ago, VegaMist said:

"Ignore list" is ignored in PVP, so adding someone to "ignore list" won't prevent anyone on that list from being on the same team with you. It only works for PVE matchmaking.

Huh.  That's changed, I guess, because there have been complaints in the past about it only being effective for who's on the same team...

[VegaMist]

2 hours ago, SteveTheCynic said:

Huh.  That's changed, I guess, because there have been complaints in the past about it only being effective for who's on the same team...

Not sure at which point, but that's the way it is right now. For me personally, that makes "ignore list" pretty much useless.

[septru]

6 hours ago, SteveTheCynic said:

That's changed, I guess.

/ignore has never worked like that. 

[septru]

21 hours ago, DeannaVoyager said:

Guess we'll just disagree on that then.

When you disagree with the everyone, are you wrong? Or is everyone else wrong? 

[DeannaVoyager]

2 hours ago, septru said:

When you disagree with the everyone, are you wrong? Or is everyone else wrong? 

When you ask silly questions like this are you trying to pick up a fight with me, or just trolling in general? Because you don't seem to have anything related to the topic to say when you respond to my posts, you're attacking me as a person. 

But in case you are not trolling: Have two people sit on the opposite sides of the table, put a coffee mug between them. One of them says the handle is on the left side of the mug. The other one claims it's on the right side of the mug. Both think the other one is crazy. Who is in the wrong there? Or maybe they just see the mug from different points of view. Being able to see things from different points of is a skill not everyone has. You don't seem to have it.

Feel free to see your world is black and white and separate people to good guys and bad guys. I am not that limited or judgemental in my thinking. Sorry to see you can't handle that.

[SteveTheCynic]

On 9/4/2023 at 5:11 AM, septru said:

/ignore has never worked like that. 

OK.  I said it like that because there have been complaints about how /ignore keeps idiots off your team, but you can still end up with them on the enemy team.