GSF suicide

[Stradlin]

1 hour ago, DeannaVoyager said:

I just did in the previous post. Let me quote myself:

 

 

 

 I talked about something concrete, such as numbers. "Plenty" "lump" and "basket" you use are none of these things. I talk about number of total soloable pve  conq objectives,(80++) since you complained about running out of non-GSF stuff to do. I talk about just how much and how fast(100k in 10 mins,every day) you can earn conq solo, since you suggested GSF is somehow superior.

 

Quote

If I have to do content I don't like, 

Exactly how much conquest you "must earn", how much diffent  content you " have to do"? How much conq needs to be earned/week for it to be enough for you?  You are strangely unwilling to talk about what sort of quantities you are dealing with weeky. You want tons of conquest, but don't like doing most of soloable pve content,or most of group content, or   GSF or pvp? There's bit of a problem here.

 

 

Trolls and mass suiciders were a thing even before conquest was introduced as game feature; ruining experience of others is its own reward for most of these people. That's why there is a mechanic for dealing with them that has nothing to do with conq objectives. If somebody is exploiting the game or throwing matches or win trading, it is up to players to stop it. Or at leats, players have an option to try and stop it. So don't settle with just complaining about game mechanics on forums, folks. Report the griefer. Record the match you have with the griefer. Post the recoding online on  youtube, then mail the link to any relevant Broadsword mail handling these things.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 8, 2023 by Stradlin

[DeannaVoyager]

22 hours ago, Stradlin said:

 I talked about something concrete, such as numbers. "Plenty" "lump" and "basket" you use are none of these things. I talk about number of total soloable pve  conq objectives,(80++) since you complained about running out of non-GSF stuff to do. I talk about just how much and how fast(100k in 10 mins,every day) you can earn conq solo, since you suggested GSF is somehow superior.

Again: this topic is not about conquest. 

 

And again: you are not getting specific numbers because they are different for everyone, and then you would start to argue about those. I already said that. Lump and basket describes perfectly how you guys think everyone who prefers pve should pick their conquest objectives. Let me repeat, since you didn't get it the first time:

If I have to do content I don't like for conquest points, I will always pick gsf because it gives most points for least effort. Nothing in pve is comparable to the practically free points you get from gsf. If I would get to play the content I like and still get something out of it, I would never touch gsf.  

 

You also didn't answer my question. If you would have to choose, would it be less suiciders and less conquest points, or more suiciders and more conquest points? Because you can't have it both ways. 

[Stradlin]

4 hours ago, DeannaVoyager said:

Again: this topic is not about conquest. 

And again: you are not getting specific numbers because they are different for everyone, and then you would start to argue about those. I already said that. Lump and basket 

 

 

 

Ever wonder how it'd feel to just give a single direct  answer to things you get asked here? 
Conq points aren't that different for everyone. 150% bonus is by far the most common state of matters for anyone who is interested of conq at all. So for purposes of these discussions, it is always useful to always assume things with 150% in mind. Ofc, you already know this and refrain from doing it only because you rather twist your own reality to better fit needs of  the argument. You've been here 10+ years and have close to 2k forum  posts. Pretending your conq. bonus on your home server would be anything besides 150% looks like  weaseling for the sake of trying to make an argument, rather than anything practical. Intellectual dishonesty kinda sucks for this exact reason; people can always tell when somebody is doing it.

 

Quote

If I have to do content I don't like for conquest points, I will always pick gsf because it gives most points for least effort. Nothing in pve is comparable to the practically free points you get from gsf. If I would get to play the content I like and still get something out of it, I would never touch gsf.  

You can earn 100k in 10 mins with solo objectives and have like 12 hours worth of various soloable objectives, and unknowable amount of non-GSF  grp content. Much of this is quite fast to do. More importantly, it is so easy to split stuff like planetary missions conq haul across your legacy.   Why do GSF for conq? All daily activities are kinda frontloaded, GSF included. For optimal conquest, one tackles all of these front loaded objectives of various playstyles.  Either one accepts there is absolutely no need to earn "optimal/max daily conquest" or one tackles all of these front loaded objectives. Personally I see no reason to do latter. Harder still to see reason in doing the latter and then bitterly complaining about it, heh. Just don't do it? Again I ask one of them questions you never reply for your own reasons. How mcuh conq you need/week and why?

 

 

Quote

You also didn't answer my question. If you would have to choose, would it be less suiciders and less conquest points, or more suiciders and more conquest points? Because you can't have it both ways. 

You've answered no questions of mine but ignore and deflect all of it. Ofc, this always is an answer in and of itself. But tell you what? I'll humor you anyway. Just to give you an example of how one can actually answer question of another in an argument. 
I would absolutely rather have conquest points and suiciders, tyvm, and I don't currently  even care of conquest points all that much.Reasoning to follow:

Firstly, either I've been very lucky with suiciders or they aren't a very common sight anymore. There were 1-2 legacies who griefed GSF with this a great deal like a year back, they either got banned or just suddenly quit doing it. Repetitive, large scale brazen exploiting via 20 or so self destructs/match or something prolly makes people who care of their account kinda worried of their account in the long run, so not all that many do it. GSF is my fav. bit of the game and clearly, suiciders are(and have always been) an issue within it. One that can and should be dealth with.  Just that cures are easily worse than the disease here. Seasons did awesome job with luring people to GSF and teaching it to folks well enough for ppl to start liking it. Average match on my home server is of decent quality, huge majority of people in giving their best shot is more common than the other alternative. Automated inactive removal has its issues, but does remove complete freeloaders. 

Secondly, it would be  incredibly backwards to punish legitimate players because of exploiters benefiting from their exploiting.   Luckily, GSF has fairly good safeguards in place for unattended freeloaders as it is. Just that chain suiciders sadly go around this.Hopefully it one day gets fixed.

Thirdly, content that needs other people to even happen should always appear at least as tempting (and pref more tempting) than content that functions even if you are only player in the world doing it. Get bit more objective, forget what you like or don't like about the game and consider its overall health. Think of all of SWTOR  as an amusement park where ideally, each ride is up and running and serving its purpose as entertainment for the park's  visitors. Planetary mission-rides are  yours to enjoy no  matter how (un)popular they are. Rides  such as GSF and PvP simply stop happening, if game gets too quiet and these activities less rewarding. In practise, significant amount of people favor whatever gives them  good conq points. Encouraging people to solo their conquest  hurts overall health of the game, since rides that need X amount of people to operate stop running.  Similarily, activities with a learning curve should appear more tempting than ones that don't really require you to figure things out. To encourage people to climb the said curve. GSF is no rocket science, but it def has a learning curve.
In a situation where soloable content and multiplayer content are even vaguely comparable in conq they give, the solo content is always vastly superior. Solo content is predictable, versatile and reliable. Stuff that needs other people to happen is polar opposite. This is a small  issue currently,but  luckily not as game breaking as it used to be like few yerars back. 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 9, 2023 by Stradlin

[LD_Little_Dragon]

6 hours ago, Stradlin said:

 

You can earn 100k in 10 mins with solo objectives and have like 12 hours worth of various soloable objectives,

 

All solo content is not the same, it is not all equally enjoyable, and having plenty of boring stuff to grind does not mean it will be fun.

I mainly log in now to do operations.  Unless you hit one of the 'kill x numbers of enemies' goals, the conquest for those are abysmal compared to the time involved.

I don't grind conquest in 7.0.  They took away the points from things I enjoyed, or messed with them too much.  Things like the social points for using group-finder, they don't let you filter and still get the points now, or solo the fp and get the points.  I don't find it enjoyable or time efficent to play russian roulette just to get social points. 

If I still wanted conquest the best rewards for my time would be '1 heroic per planet', 'star fortresses', and gsf.  None of which I find fun or engaging.  There's  a reason I left my conquest guilds when 7.0 dropped.  

ALL PVE IS NOT THE SAME.  Stop trying to pretend it is all the same.

[Spikanor]

15 minutes ago, LD_Little_Dragon said:

or solo the fp and get the points.  I don't find it enjoyable or time efficent to play russian roulette just to get social points.

wait you can get social points by doing solo flashpoints now?

so far i know there have destory the way to get social points in the 7.0 update so that you only get social points from using group finder and cant get then anymore the other way like before by doing heroic's missions with 2 or more people.

 

17 minutes ago, LD_Little_Dragon said:

If I still wanted conquest the best rewards for my time would be '1 heroic per planet', 'star fortresses', and gsf.  None of which I find fun or engaging.  There's  a reason I left my conquest guilds when 7.0 dropped.

like it was back then in 6.0 that you can get Solid Resource Matrices – Tier 3 Exotic Crafting Material rewards like that since that was a good reward back then to grint conquest points for.

[LD_Little_Dragon]

5 hours ago, Spikanor said:

wait you can get social points by doing solo flashpoints now?

No, pre 7.0 you could get social points by solo'ing veteran or master mode flashpoints or by just walking into one with a friend.  It just meant if you hit your limit pugging you could still get decent conquest by walking into your choice of flashpoint (vet or master).  7.0 took that away. 

You can still solo or duo the flashpoints but the conquest rewards (along with the weekly rewards) are lost.

[DeannaVoyager]

21 hours ago, Stradlin said:

Ever wonder how it'd feel to just give a single direct  answer to things you get asked here? 

As someone else said on some other post, I'm not your personal search engine. You have access to conquest objectives yourself, you are only asking me because you need to something to argue about? But let me remind you, this topic is still not about conquest!

 

And you still haven't answered to the question I've asked you twice now. Third time's the charm? so I'll try again:

If you would have to choose, would you rather have more conquest points and more suicider or less conquest points and less suiciders. You can't have both. 

 

14 hours ago, LD_Little_Dragon said:

ALL PVE IS NOT THE SAME.  Stop trying to pretend it is all the same.

 

This^^.

LD_Little_Dragon gets it. Probably all pve players get it. It's only some gsf players who have trouble comprehending this very basic issue. 

 

 

 

[Ruvalie]

It boggles the mind that some people in this thread are trying to argue that griefers should be allowed to grief because Broadsword is oppressing them by giving more conquest points for GSF than other activities. I originally started playing GSF for the Galactic Seasons objectives, but although I had no clue what I was doing I still tried my best at it. Broadsword isn't forcing anyone to behave badly in GSF matches. That is their own personal choice, and one that is absolutely deserving of a ban.

[DWho]

11 minutes ago, Ruvalie said:

It boggles the mind that some people in this thread are trying to argue that griefers should be allowed to grief because Broadsword is oppressing them by giving more conquest points for GSF than other activities. I originally started playing GSF for the Galactic Seasons objectives, but although I had no clue what I was doing I still tried my best at it. Broadsword isn't forcing anyone to behave badly in GSF matches. That is their own personal choice, and one that is absolutely deserving of a ban.

You have to make a choice then, get rid of the griefers and collapse the queues (assuming they are actually as prevalent as people in this thread want you to believe). Or keep them and at least get to fly the missions for the minimum 6000 CQ points per pop.

[Toraak]

On 8/2/2023 at 2:29 PM, Spikanor said:

i still not understand why people still are complaining about the GSF suicide problem since its have been a problem all for years.

if people is use the search function there see there are a lot of threads about this problem in any forum section so all is it in the general section or server section or suggestion section the point is more that the developers are going to do notting against it to fix it so in the end there not give a damm about the GSF or PVP at all.

Many of us have been complaining about the Suicide problem for many years, so for some of us it's because we don't believe people should have the right to ruin the game for others intentionally.

[Stradlin]

7 hours ago, Ruvalie said:

It boggles the mind that some people in this thread are trying to argue that griefers should be allowed to grief because Broadsword is oppressing them by giving more conquest points for GSF than other activities. I originally started playing GSF for the Galactic Seasons objectives, but although I had no clue what I was doing I still tried my best at it. Broadsword isn't forcing anyone to behave badly in GSF matches. That is their own personal choice, and one that is absolutely deserving of a ban.

Yeah I don't really remember seeing behavior like this from regulars anywhere else on these forums. Few people here brazenly defend griefing and somehow find it in them to suggest reporting griefers is the true griefing.It is utterly obscene. 

Ultimately  true actual mass suiciders in GSF kinda remind me of worst of the fleet trolls: Very few legacies actually do it. Its just that what they do is extremely loud and visible.  Get these people to stop, and huge portion of the problem ends. Record the match, report the exploiter Be sure to report your reporting to the exploiter.

 

GSF match is minimum of 6.k conq a match as somebody said earlier. Doing nothing but one single heroic mission and killing 25 mobs on top of it is close to 10k conquest.   Or over 10k conquest if it has a bonus mission. a GSF Match has barely even began by the time somebody is done with one mission and 25 mobs. You have like 30 different  planets and over 100 daily repeatable objectives planetside.

"But but all planetary missions are not the same! I like some of them but I hate some of them!"

 - Yeah well all GSF matches most certainly are not the same either. Sat matches differ a great deal from DMs, and maps differ from another. Some people are really good and decisive assets at sat matches but hate DMs, or the opposite. Some matches you find unwinnable, others are the opposite. Despite all this, GSF is routinely discussed as if a single monolith here. - Which is mostly just fair and practical, as long as something like " daily repeatable planetaries " is discussed as a monolith too.

 

 

 

Edited August 11, 2023 by Stradlin

[Spikanor]

5 hours ago, Toraak said:

Many of us have been complaining about the Suicide problem for many years, so for some of us it's because we don't believe people should have the right to ruin the game for others intentionally.

and how many threads have not been make to let the developers know there is a big problem with the suicide problem in the GSF i can link a lot of diffrend threads from a lot of diffrend sections from the forum on this post and you see there are a lot of then and in the end there still have done notting about it.

https://forums.swtor.com/topic/918412-time-to-take-action-against-self-destructors/

https://forums.swtor.com/topic/921686-you-need-to-do-something-against-throwers-in-gsf/

https://forums.swtor.com/topic/910112-suggestion-kick-people-who-suicide-x5-in-gsf/#comment-9691706

https://forums.swtor.com/topic/927967-gsf-vote-kick-or-autokick-for-self-destructers/#comment-9745631

and there are much more threads about then and all start with the same thing that it has happing since the first season of the gelactic seasons.

and i remember good that the developers have lower the tech fragments reward from it but we all know thats not the big reason why players suicide in the GSF and we al know also that the developers never going to fix this problem at the core to stop it by chance the point system so that the enemy gets 0 points from the other team if there suicide.

and here is also something to remember good we have been complaing all for years about the big bug fest this game has and there also doing notting about it to fix it for many years.

and i also know really good we have been complaing about the suicide problems in the GSF for years but there not care about it to fix it.

[Stradlin]

29 minutes ago, Spikanor said:

and how many threads have not been make to let the developers know there is a big problem with the suicide problem in the GSF i can link a lot of diffrend threads from a lot of diffrend sections from the forum on this post and you see there are a lot of then and in the end there still have done notting about it.

 

Huge credit seller/bot banwaves aside, exploiters and griefers getting warnings or bans is never made public. Person who got banned won't feel it important to PM you and let you know what happened.  Broadsword isn't about to start making some "  hey  guess what we just banned a guyxD" -posts either.

 

That said, just a simple yellow texted Broadsword reminder that it is bannable to exploit in pvp would def go a pretty long way.

 

Edited August 11, 2023 by Stradlin

[Spikanor]

11 minutes ago, Stradlin said:

Exploiters and griefers getting warnings or bans is never made public. Person who got banned won't feel it important to PM you and let you know what happened.  Broadsword isn't about to start making some "  hey  guess what we just banned a guyxD" -posts either.

 

That said, just a simple yellow texted Broadsword reminder that it is bannable to exploit in pvp would work wonders.

 

i not have to hear from broadsword that there have bann somebody each time since i give no damm about it.

but why do we have this problem all for 4 years long still when banning is not going do anything about it to stop it.

the only way to stop this problem for good is to chance 1 small thing to piss off the jerks that are doing this to ruin players there fun about GSF the only thing there need to do is to chance the score point system with 1 small thing and you fix a big problem with it.

by remove the score point that the other team gets if a player do suicide in the GSF match then you destroy there fun from then for good by 1 small chance then we all can enjoy a good GSF match without the suicide problem.

[Stradlin]

12 minutes ago, Spikanor said:

 

but why do we have this problem all for 4 years long still when banning is not going do anything about it to stop it.

Because people come and go. Lots of different people have quit, started, left, returned to the game over 4 years.  Some exploiters might have gotten perma banned, and brand new exploiters who weren't even in the game yet  when previous got the ban are busy with thei exploitative exploiterings of their own. Such is the cycle of life🙏

Edited August 11, 2023 by Stradlin

[Spikanor]

1 minute ago, Stradlin said:

Because people come and go. Lots of different people have quit, started, left, returned to the game over 4 years.  Some exploiters might have gotten perma banned, and brand new exploiters who weren't even in the game when previous got the ban are busy with their exploitative exploiterings. Such is the cycle of life🙏

that is still no good reason to fix it at the core.

what the developers from any game company never understand good ( and for some reason its super wierd there not know it at all since it can make things sometime's so easy for then)

if there fix the problem at the core like in the GSF with the small point system chance there get less work to do for banning then and that also means there get less tickets from that problem so that other problems in the game like harassment some people report can be deal with quickly since there get less tickets from the suicide problem in the GSF.

or there have more time to fix some of the bugs this game still has ( i bet that is never going to happing)

 

[Stradlin]

2 minutes ago, Spikanor said:

 

or there have more time to fix some of the bugs this game still has ( i bet that is never going to happing)

 

Yeah, I guess that's an active MMO  in active live dev for you. There will always be exploiters, there will always be bugs. You will never see a day when some final victory over these things is declared.   You need mechanics for dealing with these things as they happen. 

[Spikanor]

2 minutes ago, Stradlin said:

there will always be bugs.

its true there will always be bugs.

but there is a compleet diffrend still if a MMO has less bugs and there get soon or later a fix or there never ever at all get a fix and only become's more like a bug fest.

its all about the company that runs it if there care about the game and there communety or give no damm about it at all.

[Ruvalie]

17 hours ago, DWho said:

You have to make a choice then, get rid of the griefers and collapse the queues (assuming they are actually as prevalent as people in this thread want you to believe). Or keep them and at least get to fly the missions for the minimum 6000 CQ points per pop.

It's definitely not prevalent enough that banning them would destroy the queues. Most people who queue for GSF do in fact play it properly (or get kicked for being inactive). I've only had to report one person since I returned to the game a month or two ago. Which makes it all the more silly to argue that griefing needs to be sanctioned for the sake of the queues, because it's not sanctioned now. It's already a reportable offense.

[DWho]

25 minutes ago, Ruvalie said:

It's definitely not prevalent enough that banning them would destroy the queues. Most people who queue for GSF do in fact play it properly (or get kicked for being inactive). I've only had to report one person since I returned to the game a month or two ago. Which makes it all the more silly to argue that griefing needs to be sanctioned for the sake of the queues, because it's not sanctioned now. It's already a reportable offense.

Seems like everything is fine as it is now then. The few people who do it get reported. The problem is clearly being exaggerated.

[Stradlin]

9 minutes ago, DWho said:

Seems like everything is fine as it is now then. The few people who do it get reported. The problem is clearly being exaggerated.

Honestly, if people were bit more diligent with reporting and recording, I think it'd reduce the problem close to irrelevancy. From my own perspective, we're already there...

..But I'm almost certain I've been extremely lucky. Like..from release of 64 bit client to now,  I remember like 4-6 matches ruined out of hundreds. Other servers/other time zones are more plagued.

 

Edited August 11, 2023 by Stradlin