PvP needs love and a rework, not pointless seasons.

[aaronmsh]

Title says it all, the PvP is in such a horrible state, I can legit feel a tumor growing in my brain most matches. There are so many bugs, exploits, matchmaking issues, unbalanced classes, and just some brazier designs that make you wonder how incompetent the devs are. But no, instead of listening to feedback, some of which people have been asking sense 2012 (like making operative not be a broken mess, especially in huttball). Or allowing us to choose which warzones we want, like we can for flashpoints. Or make a solo que and grouped ques separate, like most people have been asking for, cause playing against the same premade in arena match after match after match, is not fun, it makes people never want to touch the mode again. Which cause less and less people to play, making the problems of pvp get worst. But what makes me truly angry, not the crap matchmaking or balance, not getting huttball back to back 20 times in a row or facing the same no life premade back to back to back. Its seasons, seasons would be fun if the pvp wasn't such crap.

 

In seasons the rewards for just completing the season "pass" is 2 outfits that are not that good looking, a bunch of decorations I bet my left hand and soul a minority of a minority of the minority of players care for, and like 12 or so pvp coins. While all the pvp coins to buy the, again pretty mid stuff you do want is behind achievements, one of which is for completing the weekly arena quest 12 times. I did the math, so I could wrong, but it would take you worst case scenario  just over 500 arena matches just to get the rest of the rewards that should have been in the "season pass".  And if you jump through all those hoops, you only get 20 tokens. And from what I could tell isn't even enough to get a retired seasons armor. (I could be wrong in this as well). And I like to thank we can all agree, that's utter BS.

And that isn't even the worse of it, cause seasons are nothing but lipstick on a pig to cover up how utterly broken and uncared for Bioware had left the pvp. Instead of listening to feedback, and implementing stuff this wonderful community has suggested. They instead give us seasons, dangling keys to try and distract from there incompetence of PvP and to trick and lie to themselves that PvP is A OK when they see the number of players jump. Not due to them wanting to play, but just forcing themselves to grind that stupid season for rewards that are not even that good. I said it once, and I say it again, Swtor PvP  deserves better. 

 

TLDR, Seasons suck cause there keys Bioware jingles Infront of the player base instead of actually fixing PvP, and PvP deserves better.

[felleto]

Do you think they really CAN fix it? At this point maybe it's broken beyond repair (with the current team and resources). Maybe seasons was the only way they found to try to keep this alive somehow.

Some people MUST be having fun with Pvp if its still going and they adding content for it. If not they would have scrapped it a long time ago I think. 

I don't Pvp (too much craziness for my taste) but every PvP post I see here in the forums, people just seem so frustrated with the mode. Why not stop playing Pvp if it's not fun? 

[aaronmsh]

1 hour ago, felleto said:

Do you think they really CAN fix it? At this point maybe it's broken beyond repair (with the current team and resources). Maybe seasons was the only way they found to try to keep this alive somehow.

Some people MUST be having fun with Pvp if its still going and they adding content for it. If not they would have scrapped it a long time ago I think. 

I don't Pvp (too much craziness for my taste) but every PvP post I see here in the forums, people just seem so frustrated with the mode. Why not stop playing Pvp if it's not fun? 

The worse thing you can do to anything, is have low expectations. And why not stop, because underneath all the crap, the migraines, the "god please drop a comically oversized piano on me", there is glimpses of an amazing PvP, all the devs have to do is care. And really people having fun, the most fun I had in PvP was crap talking PvP with both my team and the enemy. Great PvP there.

[meddani]

they can start by nerfing this jugg skank tank  garbage, 80+k aoe plus tons of survivability ain't balanced.

[DougTheNoob]

1 hour ago, meddani said:

they can start by nerfing this jugg skank tank  garbage, 80+k aoe plus tons of survivability ain't balanced.

Good luck with that. Been like this for ages now and they never fix the skank jugg problem. 

About the OG post, pvp can be fixed but it wont be cos it is like they intended it to be.They dont want a competitive pvp at all. They want a game mode as pointless as mostly everything in this game just so ppl can farm for useless stuff and achievs. So dont expect it to change anytime soon. Maybe now with company changes,but I wouldnt get my hopes up.

[TrixxieTriss]

4 hours ago, felleto said:

Some people MUST be having fun with Pvp if its still going

That’s why between last season and this season people were complaining here that queues weren’t popping. That didn’t even happen last year when the games population was at its lowest. BW have driven away most of the dedicated pvpers when they removed ranked. Most of the people pvping in seasons aren’t pvpers and aren’t really there for the PvP. So as soon as seasons stops, the queues die. 

Edited July 29, 2023 by TrixxieTriss

[meddani]

15 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

as soon as seasons stops, the queues die. 

can't blame people for that, the amount of people who have no idea about their class is amazing, lightning sorcs for example: most people can't even read tooltips for skills, so many sorcs use thundering blast without affliction up.  or tanks that only guard one person the whole game.

Edited July 29, 2023 by meddani

[meddani]

15 hours ago, DougTheNoob said:

Good luck with that. Been like this for ages now and they never fix the skank jugg problem. 
 

remove the 50% damage increase on taunted targets and boom, balanced.

[TrixxieTriss]

9 minutes ago, meddani said:

can't blame people for that, the amount of people who have no idea about their class is amazing, lightning sorcs for example: most people can't even read tooltips for skills, so many sorcs use thundering blast without affliction up.  or tanks that only guard one person the whole game.

But before BW dropped ranked & started this iteration of seasons last December, regular PvP didn’t have this population issue. 

[krackcommando]

14 minutes ago, meddani said:

can't blame people for that, the amount of people who have no idea about their class is amazing, lightning sorcs for example: most people can't even read tooltips for skills, so many sorcs use thundering blast without affliction up. 

my favorite is concussion round followed immediately by enet. which sends my head spinning to see where the 2nd merc was. nope. no second merc. same dude conc'd then enet the next gcd. 🤔

[krackcommando]

5 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

But before BW dropped ranked & started this iteration of seasons last December, regular PvP didn’t have this population issue. 

it also didn't have 2 separate "reg" queues.

although it's worth noting that the rated queue functioned very similar to the current seasons. the first few weeks of the new season, there were at least 3 matches going on. a month later, you had a 3-5 hour window to get your games in with a lot of herky jerky hiccups involved trying to make matches with role issues. but it was the same basic thing: during season things boomed.

the big difference, so far, is that BW/BS seems to be sticking to a set plan for the seasons, keeping them on a set schedule and turning over relatively quickly. and the seasonal rewards are gated to keep players from blitzing through the rewards asap (honestly, almost anyone could complete the seasonal requirements in a week with a few toons if the cheevos were not artificially gated - like rep is capped per week).

[meddani]

2 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

But before BW dropped ranked & started this iteration of seasons last December, regular PvP didn’t have this population issue. 

really depends on the server imo.

[Prapcaster]

2 hours ago, krackcommando said:

my favorite is concussion round followed immediately by enet. which sends my head spinning to see where the 2nd merc was. nope. no second merc. same dude conc'd then enet the next gcd. 🤔

Dude that's every merc I come across now. they stun me then immediately break it with a tracer missile.

[krackcommando]

1 hour ago, Prapcaster said:

Dude that's every merc I come across now. they stun me then immediately break it with a tracer missile.

I do like to conc sorcs coming out of barrier (or ops later in the round), load them up with a TD (also frag grenade before pruning), then hard cast serrated while they're controlled (saving instants for when they can move)...maybe net right after to finish them off. but yeah. not sure what's going on with that. do they think conc is a hard stun?

[TrixxieTriss]

7 hours ago, meddani said:

really depends on the server imo.

I would agree with the language servers. But before seasons started, you could still get reg PvP pops at all hours on the 3 English speaking servers. Now if seasons stops, PvP will quite literally die across the game on all servers. 

Edited July 30, 2023 by TrixxieTriss

[krackcommando]

8 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

I would agree with the language servers. But before seasons started, you could still get reg PvP pops at all hours on the 3 English speaking servers. Now that f seasons stops, PvP will quite literally die across the game on all servers. 

I played every day between seasons s1 and s2 and then 2 weeks after s2. the pops slowed a little in those between periods, but the only real difference was that the player pool was the same ~8-12 faces with only a couple "randoms." so kinda like playing late night or rated: you could string pops together, but it was always the same ppl  and very little you could do to shake up the teams.

[TrixxieTriss]

5 hours ago, krackcommando said:

I played every day between seasons s1 and s2 and then 2 weeks after s2. the pops slowed a little in those between periods, but the only real difference was that the player pool was the same ~8-12 faces with only a couple "randoms." so kinda like playing late night or rated: you could string pops together, but it was always the same ppl  and very little you could do to shake up the teams.

Yep. And then it nearly died completely between season 2 & 3. Imagine it will be much worse between season 3 & 4. PvP is done for outside of seasons if Broadsword don’t start making some changes that bring back dedicated pvpers to this game. Without those players, we are left with a handful of diehards spread across the servers & a smattering of people who don’t actually want to PvP in the first place. 

[krackcommando]

4 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

Yep. And then it nearly died completely between season 2 & 3. Imagine it will be much worse between season 3 & 4. PvP is done for outside of seasons if Broadsword don’t start making some changes that bring back dedicated pvpers to this game. Without those players, we are left with a handful of diehards spread across the servers & a smattering of people who don’t actually want to PvP in the first place. 

not sure how that's different than pvp 3-4 years ago, tbh. the same ppl who don't care about winning now didn't care then. I'd say the absence of some rated players was negligible b/c they didn't do a lot of WZs anyway. seasons just created a huge influx of ppl motivated by extrinsic rewards. iunno. except for the occasional 5m+ grp and the option to queue for "reg" arenas, it's the huge influx of ppl during the seasons that's most notable to me.

personally, I think you (impersonal) need to just /shrug and move on for the most part. there are a lot more ppl in this game like the hoard that doesn't care about "dedicated pvp" than do. just like there are a lot more who don't care about an actual raiding scene. the game has mostly fostered this situation and catered to that demographic for years (I guess b/c it's the best profit to cost ratio?). honestly, outside of the head scratching elimination of premade limits, I don't see advocating for a "ground up" change to the format happening. you're advocating for a demographic that mostly doesn't exist and would require a lot higher maintenance to please. the only way to salvage WZs, imo, is to make actual PvPers want to win the games they queue for. and that kinda went out the window nearly a decade ago when they killed the rated WZ scene. even if you address the premade grp size, you're not bringing back a significant portion of players or making WZs matter again.

edit: personally, between the randomness of team comps and some of the terrible maps (quesh, opg) then add in the various abilities that have made map obstacles insignificant...even made simple distances insignificant...iunno. lot of work. lot of work coming off of all the work for 7.0. and that effort cost them a ton of player "faith"(?) "equity"(?) b/c they didn't produce any significant content in order to do all that.

Edited July 30, 2023 by krackcommando

[StrikePrice]

On 7/28/2023 at 4:08 PM, meddani said:

they can start by nerfing this jugg skank tank  garbage, 80+k aoe plus tons of survivability ain't balanced.

Such a simple fix to the Skank tank problem. In every tree for defensive specs, just have a -50% damage, +100% threat node. Done. 

[TheVoyant]

Point blank you had a thriving community of PvP in 6.0. Weekly Duel Tournaments, organized Q times (PvP Tuesdays!), and an actual base of players who knew each other interacted and even helped each other get better.

I haven't even seen people dueling since 7.0 dropped. 

I left at 7.0, came back recently bc I heard it was playable. PvP feels as bad as a Vet Flashpoint with a tank & a healer does these days. You genuinely feel like you're playing with non-pvpers or you may run into that extremely unskilled group of 8 sorcs who just stack like a gang to cover for lack of skill. (As a sorc that group bugs me so much, as they drive away just about everyone from Qs. Its essentially trolling the pvp community at this point. If they had any level of skill sure, but they just exploit the imbalances 7.0 created vs have any level of talent)

And thats another thing, PvP doesn't reward skill play in 7.0. Its far better to just be an AoE spam class and stack then to be a good player like 6.0.

6.0 had flaws but it at least had counter play, skill, and AoE DR to avoid the hot mess PvP is right now.

7.0/Seasons destroyed the PvP community with a blink. 

Edited July 30, 2023 by TheVoyant

[StrikePrice]

51 minutes ago, TheVoyant said:

Point blank you had a thriving community of PvP in 6.0. Weekly Duel Tournaments, organized Q times (PvP Tuesdays!), and an actual base of players who knew each other interacted and even helped each other get better.

I haven't even seen people dueling since 7.0 dropped. 

I left at 7.0, came back recently bc I heard it was playable. PvP feels as bad as a Vet Flashpoint with a tank & a healer does these days. You genuinely feel like you're playing with non-pvpers or you may run into that extremely unskilled group of 8 sorcs who just stack like a gang to cover for lack of skill. (As a sorc that group bugs me so much, as they drive away just about everyone from Qs. Its essentially trolling the pvp community at this point. If they had any level of skill sure, but they just exploit the imbalances 7.0 created vs have any level of talent)

And thats another thing, PvP doesn't reward skill play in 7.0. Its far better to just be an AoE spam class and stack then to be a good player like 6.0.

6.0 had flaws but it at least had counter play, skill, and AoE DR to avoid the hot mess PvP is right now.

7.0/Seasons destroyed the PvP community with a blink. 

Guard is broken in PvP. Guard has been broken in PvP since day 1. TTK is off the charts to the point where most game modes don't make any sense anymore. 

[meddani]

On 7/29/2023 at 6:25 PM, meddani said:

remove the 50% damage increase on taunted targets and boom, balanced.

 

2 hours ago, StrikePrice said:

Such a simple fix to the Skank tank problem. In every tree for defensive specs, just have a -50% damage, +100% threat node. Done. 

 already said this, but i think they already buffed threat generation 

[AwesomeTacoCat]

On 7/29/2023 at 11:23 AM, meddani said:

can't blame people for that, the amount of people who have no idea about their class is amazing, lightning sorcs for example: most people can't even read tooltips for skills, so many sorcs use thundering blast without affliction up.  or tanks that only guard one person the whole game.

You get pug tanks that use guard? Lucky…

[picklesrskankin]

All I know is that it’s time to stand up for what’s right. Rabble…Rabble Rabble… Rabble Rabble Rabble Rabble! You are either with me or not and you disagree with what I’m saying. But do you really understand the true meaning behind what I’m saying? Maybe then, you too will be with me. Good luck out there guys and stay safe while pvping. If you need to wear sunscreen or a helmet, just do what you have to to get through the round. 

[krackcommando]

On 7/30/2023 at 2:00 PM, StrikePrice said:

Guard is broken in PvP. Guard has been broken in PvP since day 1.

how so?