Original Stories Continuations?

[sharpenedstick]

It's highly unlikely that Bioware's initial plan was to abandon class stories at the first expansion, then plow everything through a single terrible Zakuulian funnel.

Has there ever been any hints of what would have been the continuations if Bioware hadn't become EAware?

[Taurax]

Probably not their original plan of course, however given even as far back as their first expansion (Hutt Cartel) I think they realized 8 different stories, with light (yes)  and dark side (no) versions really makes it hard, especially when they would have to go through with getting permission from Disney, and all the hours needed for voice work etc.   I'm sure they got a realization that funneling to a single person story, with dark and light choices, was much easier to get completed and content put out.  Otherwise you would get small drip story continues for each and every specific class, that it would be very difficult to do, and costly, and with minimal payback (getting 100's of 1000's of new subs for example).

IMO, Zakuul wasn't so bad, it just wasn't awesome.  I've accepted that Bioware has had its hands strung with EA's other failures (Anthem), and that has really pushed down creativity, so they aren't ever going to create an awesome storyline ever again.  Also, I'm sure Disney has had their hands in the storyline approval or disapproval, so that again limits what they can do.

 

[ThanderSnB]

I don't even know if continuations were planned. I thought I read somewhere that Makeb story was planned before subscriptions went down. That would mean the lack of class stories was intended from the start. Maybe they just saw the class stories as a way to build backstory for each class, to show how they become heroes. After, the story was just about how these heroes help the Republic or Empire.

I think Zakuul is a separate thing. It was their idea of a way to relaunch the game and bring in subscribers. I think they were latching on to the whole episodic content thing made popular by Telltale. We all know how that turned out with the company going bankrupt (remains to be seen if the successor will survive). It didn't work for Bioware either. They couldn't release new chapters fast enough. Their plan was 1 chapter a month, but sooner or later it was 2 months for a chapter and then 3 months for a chapter. All the subscribers they gained with Fallen Empire's launch were lost within 6 months. It was unsustainable, so they had to go back to more traditional repeatable content for Onslaught.

It didn't help that after 5.8 or so, EA started pulling SWTOR devs and even its profits for other Bioware games. SWTOR was doing well enough to make Shadows of Revan style expansions for years if EA didn't cannibalize SWTOR. I think the hope with the Broadsword switch is the money SWTOR makes will stay with SWTOR rather than propping up the rest of Bioware as it has the last 5 years or so.

Edited June 22, 2023 by ThanderSnB

[Takanudo]

I'm calling it now.  When SWTOR version 8 comes out in December 2027, our character will go through another time jump only to have a new set of companions and story cut scenes voiced by the TikTok AI voice over.

[Traceguy]

It really sucks. SI for example, you rise to the rank of Dark Council, and before you know it, you're a nobody.

KOTFE/KOTET should never have been allowed to happen. We should have moved directly to Ossus after Ziost.

[Ahndri]

5 hours ago, Traceguy said:

KOTFE/KOTET should never have been allowed to happen. We should have moved directly to Ossus after Ziost.

I'm a new player, started a couple of months ago. I'm playing through KOTFE/KOTET now, and I really dislike them. Seriously, if I'd been playing when these abominations were released, I'd have quit the game and probably not come back. I can't understand how some of you long-time players dealt with it. The only thing that keeps me going is that I'm pretty sure that the expacs go back to "normal" MMO style gameplay and story after these two (and I'll be able to skip KOTFE/KOTET if desired on alts), but it's a slog, truly.

Edited June 23, 2023 by Ahndri

[sharpenedstick]

According to KOTFE/KOTET fans, everyone loves those chapters. And yet we see virtually no call to go back to that content release form or that storyline.

Curious!

[albeva]

13 hours ago, sharpenedstick said:

According to KOTFE/KOTET fans, everyone loves those chapters. And yet we see virtually no call to go back to that content release form or that storyline.

Curious!

It should have been a stand alone, spin off game.

[DWho]

On 6/23/2023 at 2:51 PM, sharpenedstick said:

According to KOTFE/KOTET fans, everyone loves those chapters. And yet we see virtually no call to go back to that content release form or that storyline.

Curious!

The release form was the problem (1 short chapter per month or so). It was a lot better played from start to finish once it was all released. The storyline itself was fine if you were playing a force sensitive (which everyone could if they wanted to). It suffered most from the complainers that got over half the intended content planned for it axed and dumped into useless "story flashpoints". What was left had so many plot holes, it didn't make a lot of sense.

[TahliahCOH]

No clue what was planned, but it probably wasn't what we ended up with. If continuing the class stories was too expensive, then a good compromise would have been to do one story for force and one for non-force users. I absolutely HATE pretty much everything post-original class story on non-force user toons and vary from like to love on it for force users. So instead of cutting corners, they cut huge chunks out of not just the corners but the whole fabric until it's a Swiss cheese nightmare that really makes no sense on most classes.

My main is a smuggler. She has somehow defeated an immortal force-using, world-consuming evil . . . with her sniper rifle. Really?! Come on. I love her, but she's dead meat against Vaylin and Arcann, let alone against the bazillion faces of Valkorian. And no, her super weapon forged in the wilds of Odessen doesn't help. It's a freaking sniper rifle, not a saber. Makes zero sense, and the whole thing is just a drag to play on a non-force user. (And frankly, even on a force user, it was a bit of a stretch; we're talking world-eating, IMMORTAL emperor here, and my SW shows up, waves her super duper double top secret lightsaber around and wins? LOL. Then, the new empress of Zakuul and savior (or enslaver) of the galaxy is off to plant bombs (personally) and to sweep up trash in a cantina? Seriously. So stupid.

[sharpenedstick]

Hey, you're the person who defeated an IMMORTAL GALAXY EATING FORCE GHOST?!?! Cool! Now bring me the neck widget from 12 droids and I'll give you this little reputation token!

[robwettengel]

 

40 minutes ago, TahliahCOH said:

No clue what was planned, but it probably wasn't what we ended up with. If continuing the class stories was too expensive, then a good compromise would have been to do one story for force and one for non-force users. I absolutely HATE pretty much everything post-original class story on non-force user toons and vary from like to love on it for force users. So instead of cutting corners, they cut huge chunks out of not just the corners but the whole fabric until it's a Swiss cheese nightmare that really makes no sense on most classes.

My main is a smuggler. She has somehow defeated an immortal force-using, world-consuming evil . . . with her sniper rifle. Really?! Come on. I love her, but she's dead meat against Vaylin and Arcann, let alone against the bazillion faces of Valkorian. And no, her super weapon forged in the wilds of Odessen doesn't help. It's a freaking sniper rifle, not a saber. Makes zero sense, and the whole thing is just a drag to play on a non-force user. (And frankly, even on a force user, it was a bit of a stretch; we're talking world-eating, IMMORTAL emperor here, and my SW shows up, waves her super duper double top secret lightsaber around and wins? LOL. Then, the new empress of Zakuul and savior (or enslaver) of the galaxy is off to plant bombs (personally) and to sweep up trash in a cantina? Seriously. So stupid.

Yes, a story for non-Force and Force users would have been the most appropriate way to go for maintaining story cohesiveness and player immersion. Valkorian shouldn't have even bothered to notice what the non-Force using classes are doing largely because the actions of the Force-using characters were definitely leaving a mark on galactic history. I feel that a majority of KotFE could have remained exactly the same for all classes, but there would be a difference for chapters 10-12:

Here there would be a bit of a fork between Force-users and tech classes. A choice would be provided for Chapter 10: either Anarchy in Paradise or Disavowed could be run. Chapters 11 and 12 would be devoted to Visions in the Dark and some sort of prelude to it for Force-users only. Tech classes would have had some sort of separate training missions to run for their Chapters 11 and 12. There would have to be other changes made, since Arkan, Vaylin, Senya, and Valk would only be foes for the Force-users. 

 

[Darcmoon]

1 hour ago, sharpenedstick said:

Hey, you're the person who defeated an IMMORTAL GALAXY EATING FORCE GHOST?!?! Cool! Now bring me the neck widget from 12 droids and I'll give you this little reputation token!

But that’s pretty much the way every MMO out there does it.  You kill the (Uber scary boss) and when you go to the areas of the next xpac none of it matters.  
 

“Hello traveler.  I would like…”

”Don’t you know who I am?  I killed (Uber scary boss) I’m a legend!”

”Really?  Nice to know.  Now I want you to go collect some firewood for me.  When you bring it back I’ll give you 5g and tell my friends about you.  If you get well known enough you can buy special stuff from Bob.”

[recalcitrantIre]

On 6/23/2023 at 10:30 AM, sharpenedstick said:

Has there ever been any hints of what would have been the continuations if Bioware hadn't become EAware?

in case you're unaware, EA was involved in the development of SWTOR from day 1, they acquired Bioware in 2007 and SWTOR development began in 2008, there wasn't any sort of transitional point at which high level priorities were rapidly changed because of a shift in ownership

 

to the main question of the thread, dataminers have found remnants of the original 2.0 that involved chapter 4 of the class stories, spread across Bothawui (Republic), Ziost (Empire), a number of generically categorized "open world" locations and one Jedi Knight mission on Sleheyron, as well as factional arcs on Yavin 4

and yes, the factional Yavin 4 arcs are clearly a different storyline to the one we got in 3.0

to my knowledge, there's very little in terms of other content that was partially developed and never released; off the top of my head, a flashpoint involving Moff Regus rebelling from the Empire as a response to them adopting alien recruitment policies in the aftermath of Malgus' failed rebellion, and a daily area associated with the devastated Hutt homeworld of Varl, both of which were slated as 1.x content

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

4 hours ago, TahliahCOH said:

My main is a smuggler. She has somehow defeated an immortal force-using, world-consuming evil . . . with her sniper rifle. Really?! Come on. I love her, but she's dead meat against Vaylin and Arcann, let alone against the bazillion faces of Valkorian. And no, her super weapon forged in the wilds of Odessen doesn't help. It's a freaking sniper rifle, not a saber. Makes zero sense, and the whole thing is just a drag to play on a non-force user. (And frankly, even on a force user, it was a bit of a stretch; we're talking world-eating, IMMORTAL emperor here, and my SW shows up, waves her super duper double top secret lightsaber around and wins? LOL. Then, the new empress of Zakuul and savior (or enslaver) of the galaxy is off to plant bombs (personally) and to sweep up trash in a cantina? Seriously. So stupid.

Agreed in spades. 👍

Definitely stupid.

[Bigfallenstar]

8 hours ago, TahliahCOH said:

No clue what was planned, but it probably wasn't what we ended up with. If continuing the class stories was too expensive, then a good compromise would have been to do one story for force and one for non-force users. I absolutely HATE pretty much everything post-original class story on non-force user toons and vary from like to love on it for force users. So instead of cutting corners, they cut huge chunks out of not just the corners but the whole fabric until it's a Swiss cheese nightmare that really makes no sense on most classes.

My main is a smuggler. She has somehow defeated an immortal force-using, world-consuming evil . . . with her sniper rifle. Really?! Come on. I love her, but she's dead meat against Vaylin and Arcann, let alone against the bazillion faces of Valkorian. And no, her super weapon forged in the wilds of Odessen doesn't help. It's a freaking sniper rifle, not a saber. Makes zero sense, and the whole thing is just a drag to play on a non-force user. (And frankly, even on a force user, it was a bit of a stretch; we're talking world-eating, IMMORTAL emperor here, and my SW shows up, waves her super duper double top secret lightsaber around and wins? LOL. Then, the new empress of Zakuul and savior (or enslaver) of the galaxy is off to plant bombs (personally) and to sweep up trash in a cantina? Seriously. So stupid.

And in WoW, you defeat dragons and world ending threats like Ragnaros with nothing but swords and bows. Seriously. are you expecting some over the top, convoluted way to beat this guy? "Hey, sealing him in a tomb didn't work, and neither did siphoning his power. So let's try sealing him inside a planet and then shooting that planet into a dark hole where no ship or person can go. And to do this, we need macguffin number 2891 found on the remote planet 374." And let's not act like force users are suddenly invincible to blaster bolts all because they carry a lightsaber. Is there some written law or rule that says they can't be killed by a bolt and can only be defeated by another lightsaber? Because I'm pretty sure, we've seen multiple force users go down to people with blasters throughout the franchise. Otherwise, no one would play any other class besides jedi and sith for that reason. And like Darcmoon said, that's a staple. Even if you do defeat the big bad, people are still going to need your help. Problems don't end just because you beat the immortal, force using, world consuming evil. Because I'm pretty sure players still want to be of some use out there. Unless you think helping random strangers is beneath you and expect them to grovel and throw flowers at you upon seeing you.

[kyledll]

47 minutes ago, Bigfallenstar said:

And in WoW, you defeat dragons and world ending threats like Ragnaros with nothing but swords and bows. Seriously. are you expecting some over the top, convoluted way to beat this guy? "Hey, sealing him in a tomb didn't work, and neither did siphoning his power. So let's try sealing him inside a planet and then shooting that planet into a dark hole where no ship or person can go. And to do this, we need macguffin number 2891 found on the remote planet 374." And let's not act like force users are suddenly invincible to blaster bolts all because they carry a lightsaber. Is there some written law or rule that says they can't be killed by a bolt and can only be defeated by another lightsaber? Because I'm pretty sure, we've seen multiple force users go down to people with blasters throughout the franchise. Otherwise, no one would play any other class besides jedi and sith for that reason. And like Darcmoon said, that's a staple. Even if you do defeat the big bad, people are still going to need your help. Problems don't end just because you beat the immortal, force using, world consuming evil. Because I'm pretty sure players still want to be of some use out there. Unless you think helping random strangers is beneath you and expect them to grovel and throw flowers at you upon seeing you.

Going a bit off topic aren't you.

[TahliahCOH]

On 6/26/2023 at 6:23 PM, robwettengel said:

Here there would be a bit of a fork between Force-users and tech classes. A choice would be provided for Chapter 10: either Anarchy in Paradise or Disavowed could be run. Chapters 11 and 12 would be devoted to Visions in the Dark and some sort of prelude to it for Force-users only. Tech classes would have had some sort of separate training missions to run for their Chapters 11 and 12. There would have to be other changes made, since Arkan, Vaylin, Senya, and Valk would only be foes for the Force-users. 

I really dislike all the "visions" stuff on non-force users. My smuggler cares about amassing large amounts of credits by smuggling; she is not force-sensitive, she should not have "visions" or meditate at anything ever. She snipes moderately talented force-users from afar and in hiding. She's a criminal, a human criminal, so all that vision stuff is just crazy. There is no way Valkorian would even know she exists unless he wants to buy some smuggled goods for some unknown reason.

None of it makes any sense, anyway. Vaylin can "see" her from her throne and when she's a ghostly presence wandering around (why!?) with Valkorian, but she can't "see" her while she's wandering around her party or standing right in front of her in a super clever guard disguise? Ugh. I can't even.

[Kabires]

On 6/23/2023 at 3:25 AM, Takanudo said:

I'm calling it now.  When SWTOR version 8 comes out in December 2027, our character will go through another time jump only to have a new set of companions and story cut scenes voiced by the TikTok AI voice over.

You are an optimist if you think SWTOR will reach 2027. Nevertheless to add my opinion on the current topic, no. I don't think that the story will continue and the game will be a sponge for new players and their subs. There are still hours and hours worth of gameplay for newcomers.

[Addictress]

On 6/22/2023 at 5:07 PM, Taurax said:

Probably not their original plan of course, however given even as far back as their first expansion (Hutt Cartel) I think they realized 8 different stories, with light (yes)  and dark side (no) versions really makes it hard, especially when they would have to go through with getting permission from Disney, and all the hours needed for voice work etc.   I'm sure they got a realization that funneling to a single person story, with dark and light choices, was much easier to get completed and content put out.  Otherwise you would get small drip story continues for each and every specific class, that it would be very difficult to do, and costly, and with minimal payback (getting 100's of 1000's of new subs for example).

IMO, Zakuul wasn't so bad, it just wasn't awesome.  I've accepted that Bioware has had its hands strung with EA's other failures (Anthem), and that has really pushed down creativity, so they aren't ever going to create an awesome storyline ever again.  Also, I'm sure Disney has had their hands in the storyline approval or disapproval, so that again limits what they can do.

 

Hard, but awesome. I would really like them to continue the 8 different stories idea. 

[Addictress]

Just imagine. A whole expansion in 2024 that is literally all about 8 new, different class stories and how each different class deals with the aftermath of everything in their own separate ways. Re-establishing their unique separate little roles. Giving up the crown ...

 

I guess it would be difficult since they've become such a godlike hero, it would lack the immersion of not being known by everyone. Every encounter would be tainted by their notoriety and celebrity.

Maybe there's a way to use the force to mass-delete memories of their celebrity from everyone's minds ;___; then it would work.

[Whykara]

17 hours ago, Addictress said:

I guess it would be difficult since they've become such a godlike hero, it would lack the immersion of not being known by everyone. Every encounter would be tainted by their notoriety and celebrity.

That's why I'm hoping on a cataclysmic event happening soon. Malgus seems to be alluding to an upcoming event that will wipe the slate clean. I just hope that if that is what is planned, they don't waste their opportunity to do something great with it. Please give us back our class identities. 

[Hrafnhildur]

It would be great to return to class stories and in theory they can be integrated into a big expansion . Here are some of my ideas : In order to prevent whatever Malgus is planning,

Spoiler

the Outlander & companions have to gather a few items across the galaxy, finding each and every one of these items being connected to a class story. Your character does the quest for his origin class and the companions find the others. 

Imperial Agent : an item that's in the possession of their Voss husband/ wife, they could be also reunited, decide to stay together or split up forever. If they decide to stay married, the husband/wife becomes a companion. 

Bounty Hunter : an item on.. Balmorra ( this planet was very neglected) belonging to Kad Ha'rangir, the so-called " Old Mandalorian God". When they get to the item, with the help of the happy gang Lane/Shae/Rass/Jekiah the have a .. big surprise in the form of an unexpected ally. 

Smuggler : in the past, they rescued a Senator's daughter from an evil scientist and saved an endangered species of animals from extinction. Now, the item they must find is not exactly an item, it could also be a person, animal or any other kind of living thing. 

Trooper : the item is of course a weapon, but in order to retrieve it, they must face some extraordinary foes, traitorous Republic military personnel and so on. 

Inquisitor : Korriban still has many secrets and one particular dangerous artifact belonged once to a certain Sith alchemist mentioned in a flashpoint.

Sith Warrior : Darth Baras the Wide hid a lot of stuff from his apprentice, including a warehouse filled with all sorts of Force-related stuff and deadly traps. Now that would be a good opportunity to bring Vette back in the story, for the ones who have saved her. For the ones who didn't, they are helped by Talos Drellik. 

Jedi Knight : they must go to Ossus, find the relocated Kalikori villagers and with their help, recover the item, something they brought from Ryloth. 

Consular : The Noetikon terminal from the destroyed Jedi Temple on Coruscant wasn't exactly unique and some of its secrets are not only dark, but also very dangerous. They ask for Sana-Rae's help, but she recommends another Mystic for the job, the guy Consulars met in their original class story. 

 

Edited July 11, 2023 by Hrafnhildur
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