An update on the development of SWTOR

[Jdast]

I have to admit, this thread took a weird turn. Part of the reason I stay sane (well, mostly ) is I I don't worry about things I can't control. 

For me, I ask myself a simple question: Am I having fun playing the game? I apologize for this next statement, but I turned 53 last week. I can afford 15 U.S. bucks a month. it's less than a movie ticket, especially if you get popcorn and and soda!  I know that many of you are students so you have to balance that point. Trust me, I've been there.

But I agree with Jak, we have no idea where the game is going. So let's just have fun! if you're not having fun, you can always unsubscribe. For me, it is still worth 15 U.S. bucks a month. But I always agree with Ole Buzzie! Fix the BUGS!. 

Dasty

[JakRoanin]

Amen! I don't need 'help' the minute I don't want to play anymore I leave simple.

[OlBuzzard]

32 minutes ago, Jdast said:

I have to admit, this thread took a weird turn. Part of the reason I stay sane (well, mostly ) is I I don't worry about things I can't control. 

For me, I ask myself a simple question: Am I having fun playing the game? I apologize for this next statement, but I turned 53 last week. I can afford 15 U.S. bucks a month. it's less than a movie ticket, especially if you get popcorn and and soda!  I know that many of you are students so you have to balance that point. Trust me, I've been there.

But I agree with Jak, we have no idea where the game is going. So let's just have fun! if you're not having fun, you can always unsubscribe. For me, it is still worth 15 U.S. bucks a month. But I always agree with Ole Buzzie! Fix the BUGS!. 

Dasty

For me old friend .. it's not about the cash!  Even thought I'm retired and DEFINATELY have a budget ... Honestly, I actually spend more on soft bait plastics (see note) in 6 months than I do my annual fees to SWTOR.   There's been a change in the direction of the force behind SWTOR.. and now it's time to see what will happen next.  IMO the last couple of years has been a bit frustrating (from time to time).

Fun ???  Playing an MMO ... Really?  I knew there was something about all of this I was forgetting.  (I must be getting old...er)

(yes ... I'm just messin' with ya!)

Edit:  please see soft bait plastics under just about any major fishing tackle supplier.

Edited July 3, 2023 by OlBuzzard

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

6 hours ago, Jdast said:

I have to admit, this thread took a weird turn. Part of the reason I stay sane (well, mostly ) is I I don't worry about things I can't control. 

For me, I ask myself a simple question: Am I having fun playing the game? I apologize for this next statement, but I turned 53 last week. I can afford 15 U.S. bucks a month. it's less than a movie ticket, especially if you get popcorn and and soda!  I know that many of you are students so you have to balance that point. Trust me, I've been there.

But I agree with Jak, we have no idea where the game is going. So let's just have fun! if you're not having fun, you can always unsubscribe. For me, it is still worth 15 U.S. bucks a month. But I always agree with Ole Buzzie! Fix the BUGS!. 

Dasty

Happy Birthday, Dasty. 🎂

P.S. Sanity is over-rated. 🤪

Edited July 4, 2023 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[TrixxieTriss]

15 hours ago, LJ_Gibbs said:

They brought in a subcontractor.  They needed a few extra hands since they were moving so many of their people over to DA and ME. 

So ... they hired a company to put up new drywall and paint the room after the majority of the work was already done (framework, molding, electrical).

That is not entirely true & isn’t a good analogy for this situation. 

[LJ_Gibbs]

5 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

That is not entirely true & isn’t a good analogy for this situation. 

OH... you must have a relative that works there?

[DIVAvonFarstar]

51 minutes ago, LJ_Gibbs said:

OH... you must have a relative that works there?

Putting every sentence on the gold scales is somehow not very effective, since we all are not exactly informed.

[TrixxieTriss]

1 hour ago, LJ_Gibbs said:

OH... you must have a relative that works there?

I could use the same argument to refute you too. The difference is I’m not stating what the circumstances are with the deal because I don’t know. But then again neither do you. So you’re assertion that we’re all wrong & you’re the only one with certain knowledge is extremely arrogant. 

[OlBuzzard]

1 hour ago, TrixxieTriss said:

I could use the same argument to refute you too. The difference is I’m not stating what the circumstances are with the deal because I don’t know. But then again neither do you. So you’re assertion that we’re all wrong & you’re the only one with certain knowledge is extremely arrogant. 

We have to be careful that we don't mix up truth (things that we KNOW have happened in the past ... thereby creating a historical evidence of both work ethic and attitude ...

Mixed up with speculation of future events based on what we THINK we know thus far.  It should be noted that this does not mean that I'm changing my mind.  Hopefully it does help to clarify that my mind set is based on known facts.  As for the conclusion of the matter ... I'll still stand pat with my "wait and see what transpires" and make that decision WHEN the occasion calls for it!  And (respectfully to those who think otherwise) ... I really don't think that the team has a year to prove to everyone just how sincere that they are.  Like it or not ... things are a bit tense right now!  Yes .. that can change for the better.  And I would dare say that there are a lot of people who are looking forward to a better SWTOR experience.  

And ... (make no mistake about it) .. the old man is not joking for one moment on this subject.  I'm looking forward to having fun in SWTOR again.  The potential is unquestionably there!

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

1 hour ago, OlBuzzard said:

.I really don't think that the team has a year to prove to everyone just how sincere that they are.  Like it or not ... things are a bit tense right now!  Yes .. that can change for the better.  And I would dare say that there are a lot of people who are looking forward to a better SWTOR experience.  

In terms of where many who post here on the forums about this, I agree that some people might not be willing to wait a whole year after Broad Sword officially takes over for them to prove themselves to them. Of course people will draw there own conclusion on what that might portent for the future and their willingness to stick around.

If people aren't willing to wait that long for them to prove themselves than that is certainly their prerogative. But from a technical point of view, I think expecting a lot from Broadsword, or even enough to quell certain peoples concerns, I don't think it's a very realistic expectation.

I said this previously, I have virtually no hope in that possibility. I am expecting no new content from Broadsword within the first 6 months to a year.

But, if what Bioware has said is true, than the work they have already done and are still currently doing will probably fill that void anyways as they said they have stuff that will extend into 2025. So assuming Broadsword takes over in 2024, that would cover that first year.

Naturally with the amount of new content Bioware has been putting out in recent years, which isn't very much, I see no reason to expect that the new content Bioware referenced into 2025 will be any more abundant that has been. That is of course just an assumption on my part.

If people aren't willing to wait that long, it's their money on the line and they get to decide where and what it's worth spending on.

[OlBuzzard]

2 minutes ago, WayOfTheWarriorx said:

In terms of where many who post here on the forums about this, I agree that some people might not be willing to wait a whole year after Broad Sword officially takes over for them to prove themselves to them. Of course people will draw there own conclusion on what that might portent for the future and their willingness to stick around.

If people aren't willing to wait that long for them to prove themselves than that is certainly their prerogative. But from a technical point of view, I think expecting a lot from Broadsword, or even enough to quell certain peoples concerns, I don't think it's a very realistic expectation.

I said this previously, I have virtually no hope in that possibility. I am expecting no new content from Broadsword within the first 6 months to a year.

But, if what Bioware has said is true, than the work they have already done and are still currently doing will probably fill that void anyways as they said they have stuff that will extend into 2025. So assuming Broadsword takes over in 2024, that would cover that first year.

Naturally with the amount of new content Bioware has been putting out in recent years, which isn't very much, I see no reason to expect that the new content Bioware referenced into 2025 will be any more abundant that has been. That is of course just an assumption on my part.

If people aren't willing to wait that long, it's their money on the line and they get to decide where and what it's worth spending on.

Pretty much the "light" in which I'm speaking.  The time value allotted is not so much in the context of what you, me or perhaps some might consider the matter ... but rather perhaps an overall consensus.  IMO this is not so much a matter of right or wrong ...but simply how people might be looking at things right now.  And (like it or not) ...I can also appreciate where a lot of the frustration is coming from.

** If there is some genuine progress made... then people will begin to see things in a different, more positive light.
** If things simply remain status quo, I can promise you the natives will get restless.
** If things remain as they are now ... then frankly I'm probably not going to stick around that much longer.  Burried around here in this thread ... (somewhere) .. I mentioned a few things that might help.  They're NOT that specific ... but IMO a good place to start and would help generate some good will.

BTW...  I know that the new group has their own itinerary.  I get that!  Anyone with more than two brain cells understands that.  That was why there are no real specifics in that suggestion I made!  Surely it's not too much to ask to shed a small spotlight of hope on this situation!

In any case... I'm headed out for a few hours.  (That should give a LOT of folks a sigh of relief)..

🤣

[TrixxieTriss]

2 hours ago, OlBuzzard said:

We have to be careful that we don't mix up truth (things that we KNOW have happened in the past ... thereby creating a historical evidence of both work ethic and attitude ...

Im definitely not trying to do either. I’m just supplying some analysis & talking points. 
I’m sure with your life experiences, you’d agree that a change to new executive management team/company with the some portion of the original team, doesn’t always mean business as usual. 
My life experience has shown that even in situations where the new CEO/company still wants to maintain the status quo, that rarely happens because new CEO/company can bring cultural differences & personalities. 
Obviously that’s not always the case. And with a larger corporate structure, the company can see less impact.
In this situation however, Broadsword are essentially a boutique company/studio. They will have things they do their way & the people at the top will be less corporate than EAware. 
I don’t think we can use much of the games previous historical development cycle (except some quality issues) as much precedence. 
I also understand why some people may not be willing to wait around for Broadsword to prove themselves. But they don’t have to sub if they don’t want to. They can take a break & see what’s happening in 6-12 months. 

Edited July 4, 2023 by TrixxieTriss

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

6 minutes ago, OlBuzzard said:

Pretty much the "light" in which I'm speaking.  The time value allotted is not so much in the context of what you, me or perhaps some might consider the matter ... but rather perhaps an overall consensus.  IMO this is not so much a matter of right or wrong ...but simply how people might be looking at things right now.  And (like it or not) ...I can also appreciate where a lot of the frustration is coming from.

** If there is some genuine progress made... then people will begin to see things in a different, more positive light.
** If things simply remain status quo, I can promise you the natives will get restless.
** If things remain as they are now ... then frankly I'm probably not going to stick around that much longer.  Burried around here in this thread ... (somewhere) .. I mentioned a few things that might help.  They're NOT that specific ... but IMO a good place to start and would help generate some good will.

BTW...  I know that the new group has their own itinerary.  I get that!  Anyone with more than two brain cells understands that.  That was why there are no real specifics in that suggestion I made!  Surely it's not too much to ask to shed a small spotlight of hope on this situation!

In any case... I'm headed out for a few hours.  (That should give a LOT of folks a sigh of relief)..

Of course it's your prerogative if you wanna go. But that would absolutely suck azz if you left. Your one of the main stays on the forums.  It'd be like when the Trixxie-Baby was gone. I friggen hated that.

I mean I was banned for most of it, but I still read the forums everyday.

Look, I get why a lot of people are unhappy about how Bioware has been handling a lot of things over these past few years. I have my own issues with Bioware regarding my crap about them not respecting Lucas's vision more. There's plenty of reasons for people to have discontent here. The list is Legion.

If Broadsword was smart, they'd make it their business not to ignore that discontent. Even if it was just them communicating their intentions and their ideas.

We don't know the status of the negotiations, if it's all nailed down or if it's still in the works. If it's the later, than there's no reason for them to say anything yet, that would be premature than.

I agree with everything you're saying. But, I think the status quo is as good as it's gonna get thru 2025. I'm expecting restless natives.

 

 

 

[LJ_Gibbs]

1 hour ago, TrixxieTriss said:

In this situation however, Broadsword are essentially a boutique company/studio. They will have things they do their way & the people at the top will be less corporate than EAware. 
 

I really hate to do this...

https://blog.bioware.com/2023/06/27/bright-future-for-swtor/

And so, while EA will remain SWTOR’s publisher, development of the game will move to our partner and friends at Broadsword, a boutique studio with expertise in managing online games.

So ... let's let that sink in a bit....

It's STILL EA's baby... they just want someone else DEVELOPING it because they need the bodies for ME and DA.

[JakRoanin]

Yes, we can read. it doesn't mean what you think it does, things will still change.

[xxSHOONYxx]

1 hour ago, LJ_Gibbs said:

because they need the bodies for ME and DA.

I don't buy that part of the article, if they needed people to help with ME and DA they could have just hired more people rather than hiring a third party company to run it. There is just no way a company the size of broadsword can pay for the game, unless EA somehow decided to under sell it by a lot yet still remain publisher.
If i had to bet, it was to close Bioware Austin since bioware austin primarily did the "online" and "multiplayer" parts of the games that edmonton did (with dreadwolf and new mass effect reports saying they ditched all multiplayer elements), plus swtor. They probably just ran the numbers and saw it was not worth it to have a studio dedicated to just SWTOR and decided to hire a cheaper third party studio to do the every day stuff.
 

 

1 hour ago, JakRoanin said:

things will still change.

How do you know things will change? Because Keith said so?

[JakRoanin]

Because Broadsword  is now @KeithKanneg boss not Bioware. That IS a change! What it means again, IDK! But it is empirical change!

Edited July 4, 2023 by JakRoanin

[xxSHOONYxx]

39 minutes ago, JakRoanin said:

Because Broadsword  is now @KeithKanneg boss not Bioware. That IS a change! What it means again, IDK! But it is empirical change!

True, but the boss of keith would be like a contractor of EA still (if not their employee), so what changes would be middle management not the upper management. And you have to take into account swtor devs were halved too. 
The only way for broadsword to make the game better would be if they get paid in a percentage of earnings that swtor makes rather than a fixed amount EA pays them to develop it as a third party studio, and even then if they decide to invest every single penny back into the game those changes will be seen when they get the money to hire more devs

[krackcommando]

53 minutes ago, JakRoanin said:

Because Broadsword  is now @KeithKanneg boss not Bioware. That IS a change! What it means again, IDK! But it is empirical change!

BioWare was never Keith Kanneg's boss (why are you tagging him?). EA was his boss. BW has been EA since 2007. It's not just that EA owns the liscence for SW.

The stories of many such studios are the same, like Vicarious Visions (Skylanders) are the same. They are wholly owned subsidiaries of the few big distributors (Activision).

I cannot find it now, but there was a quote somewhere of a BW dev laughing off someone claiming to know about a BW boss vs. EA boss, and dev laughed it off saying something to the effect of "BW is EA. EA is my boss. That person doesn't know what he's talking about." since I mostly only pvp in this game, I'll assume it was on the discord channel that caused a hubbub amongst PVPers when a dev started hanging out there.

Regardless, EA does not own Broadsword. However, EA still owns SWTOR. They're outsourcing development. The staff that runs SWTOR is joining Broadsword, but where do you think those salaries are coming from? either Broadsword invested a metric poop ton of money to gamble on reinventing a 12 year old game/engine, or the salaries for their ~40 new hires are coming from EA, and the profits from the game still flow through EA, which means EA dictates how the money is spent. iunno. I don't think I'm being unfair here. am I missing something obvious?

Edited July 4, 2023 by krackcommando

[JakRoanin]

But that's my point none of us can say how Broadsword will manage this yet! So, things CAN change for the better! Will they? IDK. But if they don't then I reevaluate if I want to stay, not before!

[LJ_Gibbs]

2 minutes ago, krackcommando said:

Regardless, EA does not own Broadsword. However, EA still owns SWTOR. They're outsourcing development. The staff that runs SWTOR is joining Broadsword, but where do you think those salaries are coming from? either Broadsword invested a metric poop ton of money to gamble in reinventing a 12 year old game/engine, or the salaries for their ~40 new hires are coming from EA, and the profits from the game still flow through EA, which means EA dictates how the money is spent. iunno. I don't think I'm being unfair here. am I missing something obvious?

They just can't handle people that think nothing will change can POSSIBLY be right.

So blind....

[LJ_Gibbs]

4 minutes ago, JakRoanin said:

But that's my point none of us can say how Broadsword will manage this yet! So, things CAN change for the better! Will they? IDK. But if they don't then I reevaluate if I want to stay, not before!

Case in point...

Look at the BS website... they "work on" two games.

Ultima Online... released 1997

Dark age of Camelot .. released 2001

... and now SWTOR... released 2011

Their company "manages" game that other people didn't want to "manage" anymore.

[krackcommando]

Just now, LJ_Gibbs said:

They just can't handle people that think nothing will change can POSSIBLY be right.

So blind....

a lot has changed since 7.0. but it's not what, imo, needs to change. like pruning was necessary but was done badly. the fact that heal, dps, and tank specs all shared the same "options" caused the way BW pruned (doing so that players had to pick which abilities they lost) to be horrible. some specs had to get rid of stuns while others had multiple (hard) stuns. it was very uneven with faux "choice."

but the basic way the game works hasn't changed. it's still a bunch of hamster wheels with no vertical progression (even less since 7.0). incredibly few new content. and even the story stuff (which BW was hyper-focused on) has been garbage (continually reviving Revan and Malgus - please stop doing this!). only the eternal empire stuff was good (as story), and those 2 xpacks were the death of end game progression.

Broadsword does not bring new resources. they actually have fewer resources. fewer employees being brought over. and why on earth would I want the SAME ppl working on this game when they've failed at these core concepts for so long: end game progression/content. and hey, the story has been arse for a while too. iunno.

I show up for a few months. pvp. then leave for a year or so. b/c nothing really new. I don't even play story anymore because it's so generic and the companions are so disposable. the whole game seems to exist around cartel cosmetics. and tbh, I like my SW characters to look like SW characters, so I think the best stuff is about 10 year old at this point. 😄

[LJ_Gibbs]

BTW... Broadsword has exactly 23 (TWENTY THREE) employees listed on their website.

[Whykara]

10 minutes ago, LJ_Gibbs said:

BTW... Broadsword has exactly 23 (TWENTY THREE) employees listed on their website.

They have at least doubled that with the SWTOR acquisition though. Broadsword website isn't the most up to date and a bit wonky, but what I do find interesting is the small section on the career page. Funny enought it's only available on the mobile version of the site (as I said, it's wonky):

Quote

You won't see any executives in suits driving decisions or accountants pushing to make quarterly margins. The teams make the decisions and are totally responsible for improving our games and communities.

Sounds like the antithesis to Bioware, so let's stay patient and give them a chance.