An update on the development of SWTOR

[casirabit]

8 minutes ago, JakRoanin said:

Well, I believe it's reasonable to give a grace period while the staff transition and move to new offices, I mean this is a luxury product and real life is real life. These people are making a huge personal adjustment as well. There's going to be kinks and growing pains. It is what it is. And while we might be annoyed about bugs and currencies, and not enough content. They'll have to adjust to the new structure before they can start developing more. The new story will probably start around Thanksgiving/Christmas, and then they'll need to start walking the walk instead of mumbling the talk. 

Most of them are not moving.  They will be working from home so there really isn't that much of a transition, i.e. moving to a new office. 

Will the SWTOR development team be moving out of Austin? 

We are already a remote team with staff working from home throughout the US and beyond. That said, our physical presence will still be remaining in Austin and we will be securing a new office space here."

[casirabit]

2 minutes ago, OlBuzzard said:

You could be right.  I'm just not so sure how many will be willing to wait essentially until next year to see things really start rolling again.

The other side of this could easily be that a number of key people knew that this was coming months ago ... and have already started making changes so that when the transition began it might help to expedite a few things.  There are always surprises (more like hick-ups) in the process when making this sort of changeover.

I myself will simply wait.  I have some key things that if they remain status quo ...  I'm just not going to continue to hold out any longer.  Sure this is Star Wars.  And yes I do enjoy a lot of the game.  But there is so much more available elsewhere right now!  Yes, there is a lot that has been done correctly ... in the past.  There are also dozens of things which continue to overshadow the good intentions.  The next GS should give me a good snapshot of their new direction. 

There really isn't going to be that much of a transition since they are working out of their home, like they have since COVID, so giving them a year, well that depends on the person.  Me?  nope.   AS you know, I have been playing FFXIV since February and loving it, though I log in here once or twice a week (just long enough to do the conquest).

[JakRoanin]

Just because they're not moving out-of-state, does not mean moving offices, working in a new corporate environment, and working with new upper management isn't a personal strain. Also, this will be different for them if not for us right away.

[OlBuzzard]

35 minutes ago, casirabit said:

There really isn't going to be that much of a transition since they are working out of their home, like they have since COVID, so giving them a year, well that depends on the person.  Me?  nope.   AS you know, I have been playing FFXIV since February and loving it, though I log in here once or twice a week (just long enough to do the conquest).

Ummm  I wasn't suggesting waiting a year.  This the end of June.  Thanksgiving / Christmas pretty much at the end of the year.  You know how the holiday season hits most businesses (other than retail).  I really wouldn't expect huge amounts of newly released stuff during that time.  That was why I suggested later there might be more coming (like well AFTER January 1, 2024.)

BTW... they did get the "loop bug" fixed.  And for me personally I wish I had a written script of what the Vos said.  To me there was some interesting foreshadowing in that meeting.  Some hated it since it was done in riddles (typical for Vos) ... but I found it interesting.

[OlBuzzard]

32 minutes ago, JakRoanin said:

Just because they're not moving out-of-state, does not mean moving offices, working in a new corporate environment, and working with new upper management isn't a personal strain. Also, this will be different for them if not for us right away.

More than likely there will be a lot of changes in the mechanics of how things work.  Undoubtedly some will have new job responsibilities while others simply continue on as before.  

None of this of course means a lot to the end user.  IMO ... what matters is the continued progression of the game ..  fixing BUGS ...  and a clear-cut indication of the direction of the game.  NO! ...It won't happen overnight.  But at some point in time the usual rhetoric will need to be backed up with actual facts and conclusive activities that back up the promises.  That's not being harsh.  It is being realistic.

[septru]

2 hours ago, JakRoanin said:

Now that everything is moving to Broadsword its entirely possible 2024 will see a dramatic reshuffle.

Other than just blind optimism, how is is it "entirely possible" that the game gets better? Like seriously, what specifically about the Broadsword move suggests a "dramatic reshuffle?" Other than Kieth's mention to "creative freedom" (which I still have no clue what that means), is there anything specific? Did Kieth say anything about BroadSword reinvesting resources into the game that BioWare wouldn't? 

 

As far as I'm aware I haven't seen anything to suggest a "dramatic reshuffle." I would love to believe otherwise, but I think you have to be hopelessly naive to believe things are going to get better "just cuz."

 

 

Edited June 30, 2023 by septru

[LJ_Gibbs]

2 hours ago, JakRoanin said:

BUT- Now that everything is moving to Broadsword its entirely possible 2024 will see a dramatic reshuffle. If things aren't better by next summer then I fear the doom and gloom might justified.

It's been this way for 2-3 years.  How is it gonna get any better?  They are moving to BS... people working on the game now are going to DA and ME.  Granted they will get some help from BS... but ... will it just to be make CM items because that is the only thing making them money now?

[ronin_chi_lao]

1 hour ago, LJ_Gibbs said:

It's been this way for 2-3 years.  How is it gonna get any better?  They are moving to BS... people working on the game now are going to DA and ME.  Granted they will get some help from BS... but ... will it just to be make CM items because that is the only thing making them money now?

What a waste it would most certainly be for all the work they did to get us on a 64 bit client, AWS hosting, AND @KeithKanneg now telling us plans for directx 12. Why spend time, resources, an improved site forum AND MONEY on all that if they knew going to broadsword would bring us so little?

It makes no sense to do all that and just " let it out to pasture."

I'm still so much more optimistic here.

All the key players working on swtor are still with us including writers. Am I wrong?

 

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

5 hours ago, JakRoanin said:

They just axed one of the currencies, I think that time will tell. All I can say is that repeating the same things over and over help nobody, especially if its just saying "The game is dead" it isn't. How do I know? I can still log in!

Can things be done better? YES! That Onderon bug is pissing me off.

Are the gearing currencies still discombobulated? YES! Seriously, Up the Tech Frags and stop dropping Ops and WZ currencies in open world.

But on the positive side, the upgrades to the 64 bit, and the ones still to come make the game run better. This is good.

The story is being developed by passionate writers who love their characters. That's excellent!

HOWEVER- The pacing is off because of the update schedule. This is not good.

BUT- Now that everything is moving to Broadsword its entirely possible 2024 will see a dramatic reshuffle. If things aren't better by next summer then I fear the doom and gloom might justified.

Finally something we agree on. I agree with most of this. Not sure about the dramatic reshuffle, but, I suppose it's possible. We'll just have to wait and see.

👍👍  (Was out of likes for the day.)

2 hours ago, OlBuzzard said:

None of this of course means a lot to the end user.  IMO ... what matters is the continued progression of the game ..  fixing BUGS ...  and a clear-cut indication of the direction of the game.  NO! ...It won't happen overnight.  But at some point in time the usual rhetoric will need to be backed up with actual facts and conclusive activities that back up the promises.  That's not being harsh.  It is being realistic.

Perfectly reasonable and I agree with your assessment. At the end of the day, words are just words, and they need to prove something by backing up those words and keeping them.

👍👍  (Was out of likes for the day. Annoying as hell =])

39 minutes ago, ronin_chi_lao said:

What a waste it would most certainly be for all the work they did to get us on a 64 bit client, AWS hosting, AND @KeithKanneg now telling us plans for directx 12. Why spend time, resources, an improved site forum AND MONEY on all that if they knew going to broadsword would bring us so little?

It makes no sense to do all that and just " let it out to pasture."

I tend to agree. Wouldn't make much sense to waste all that money if you knew it was just going to be put into maintenance mode anyway and allowed to wither away.

I'm very happy with the 64 bit client improvements. Really makes a difference. Game looks and sounds so much better.

👍👍  (Was out of likes for the day.)

 

 

Edited June 30, 2023 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[Whykara]

1 hour ago, ronin_chi_lao said:

All the key players working on swtor are still with us including writers. Am I wrong?

That's the point, how can there be substantial change when the devs stay the same. Caitlin Sullivan, the lead writer, has recently gone on a blocking spree on twitter, seemingly blocking people who dislike the story. 

But let's give Broadsword the benefit of doubt. All we do here is speculation anyway, it will be a while until we will actually notice the takeover. I personally am waiting for a statement from Rob Denton or some other Broadsword person on the matter. 

[TrixxieTriss]

4 hours ago, Whykara said:

That's the point, how can there be substantial change when the devs stay the same. Caitlin Sullivan, the lead writer, has recently gone on a blocking spree on twitter, seemingly blocking people who dislike the story. 

But let's give Broadsword the benefit of doubt. All we do here is speculation anyway, it will be a while until we will actually notice the takeover. I personally am waiting for a statement from Rob Denton or some other Broadsword person on the matter. 

In all fairness, twitter is a cesspool these days since Musk took over. I block most people with a blue tick on my private account just on principle. Its just not worth seeing the hate in your feeds with way the algorithm is promoting hate & contention. The only reason I still use it is to continue helping my fury Shiba fellas out. 

Edited June 30, 2023 by TrixxieTriss

[Traceguy]

13 hours ago, lukeisjedi said:

 imo they have not lied to us.

So, what would you call R4 NiM?

Edited June 30, 2023 by Traceguy

[JakRoanin]

8 hours ago, LJ_Gibbs said:

It's been this way for 2-3 years.  How is it gonna get any better?  They are moving to BS... people working on the game now are going to DA and ME.  Granted they will get some help from BS... but ... will it just to be make CM items because that is the only thing making them money now?

We don't know that's my point, all this doom and gloom helps nobody, and I choose to give my fellow human beings empathy.

[JakRoanin]

5 hours ago, Whykara said:

That's the point, how can there be substantial change when the devs stay the same. Caitlin Sullivan, the lead writer, has recently gone on a blocking spree on twitter, seemingly blocking people who dislike the story. 

But let's give Broadsword the benefit of doubt. All we do here is speculation anyway, it will be a while until we will actually notice the takeover. I personally am waiting for a statement from Rob Denton or some other Broadsword person on the matter. 

They were abusive and she shouldn't put up with it.

[Balameb]

9 hours ago, JakRoanin said:

Just because they're not moving out-of-state, does not mean moving offices, working in a new corporate environment, and working with new upper management isn't a personal strain. Also, this will be different for them if not for us right away.

The 'new corporate' environment, if we belive what they said, just means more 'freedom'. So, if they take long to adapt to more freedom, then it means they are just sheeps than can't work without strict guidance.

[LJ_Gibbs]

46 minutes ago, JakRoanin said:

We don't know that's my point, all this doom and gloom helps nobody, and I choose to give my fellow human beings empathy.

So...

We have the fact they are being moved to a developer that is known for maintaining games (very little to no significant content).

6 hours ago, Whykara said:

That's the point, how can there be substantial change when the devs stay the same.

We have this here.  What make you think anything will be different when the main "big wigs" are still in charge?  Some of the BW people are going to Dragon Age and Mass Effect.  So you are asking people at BS to do what?  There is going to be LESS people working on the game than there is now.  How does that give you hope for "more and better things"?

Trust me.... we know a lot. 

 

[JakRoanin]

I don't see why you care what I think anyway. Did it ever occur to the doomsday players Broad sword is looking to expand and start to go into Developing AAA titles? This is an awesome springboard to do it.

[OlBuzzard]

7 hours ago, WayOfTheWarriorx said:

Finally something we agree on. I agree with most of this. Not sure about the dramatic reshuffle, but, I suppose it's possible. We'll just have to wait and see.

👍👍  (Was out of likes for the day.)

Perfectly reasonable and I agree with your assessment. At the end of the day, words are just words, and they need to prove something by backing up those words and keeping them.

👍👍  (Was out of likes for the day. Annoying as hell =])

I tend to agree. Wouldn't make much sense to waste all that money if you knew it was just going to be put into maintenance mode anyway and allowed to wither away.

I'm very happy with the 64 bit client improvements. Really makes a difference. Game looks and sounds so much better.

👍👍  (Was out of likes for the day.)

 

 

The simple fact is that there are two VERY REAL sides to this entire affair.

** From the team side:  we don't see the internal matters.  From their standpoint of view many of them have worked hard trying to hold things together.  With a fresh start some of them are no doubt hoping to finally put some of the negativity in the past and move forward.  We have no idea that translates into.  We have seen a lot of disappointments in recent years.

** From our standpoint of view, even though we have no idea who made the final decisions that place this game in such a precarious position we have seen the results.  A lot of the anxiety and negativity right now is not the result of a single decision that has been made ... but rather a plethora issues, bugs, content drought, more bugs, and repeatedly pushing aside feedback from the overall community on a NUMBER of issues. 

IMO if some of us really didn't care about SWTOR  we would have left a LONG time ago!  I'm one of them.  I also care about people:  REAL people.  I try to see the big picture.  And I admit that this is one time that I don't have all of the pieces in my hands to put one together when it has been shattered, fragmented and resembles more of a puzzle than anything else.  I can also tell you that can lead to frustration!  I'm doing my best to remain optimistic.  But I can also see that optimism is strongly tempered (or perhaps overshadowed) with caution.  

I genuinely hope things change for the better.  That would be a win-win for everyone!  And frankly I think most of us could use some GOOD news for a change.

[OlBuzzard]

8 minutes ago, JakRoanin said:

I don't see why you care what I think anyway. Did it ever occur to the doomsday players Broad sword is looking to expand and start to go into Developing AAA titles? This is an awesome springboard to do it.

Valid point given that company's history for several years now.  And yet the simple fact is that they have hired a large workforce (compared to their current size).  Nobody does that today without a new directive from someone at the top of the company.  That new directive isn't something done just because someone took a hankering to do so!  NO ... someone thought this through for a while.

That being said:  It's their move.  It's a risky business move (when it comes right down to it) if they REALLY are planning on GROWING SWTOR.  (That's something that has been needed for a long time now).  I agree it is still possible.  What actually take place??  That remains to be seen.

Edited June 30, 2023 by OlBuzzard
clarification

[robwettengel]

On 6/28/2023 at 9:27 PM, Nee-Elder said:

Try  ZERO , cuz this persists--> https://forums.swtor.com/topic/926879-pvp-challenges-for-skirmish-and-guild-challenge-no-longer-functioning-bug-possibly-as-of-72-challenge-can-be-issued-queue-pops-but-nothing-happens-when-you-click-enter/

 

I see our dear LadyAdmiral tried every conceivable troubleshooting avenue under the sun from a player perspective.   My hat's off to her because I don't/wouldn't have the patience for that.

 

There is a varied player base that play for different reasons. I suspect that it is likely impossible to adequately satisfy all the factions with sufficient attention. I play for story and PVP and I'd characterize myself as a semi-casual PVPer. I only ever ran the vanilla ops, only ran KP all the way through at least 10x, the other ones, I only earned achievements for the first two bosses. This was in 2013, and I don't remember if I was running them because I genuinely wanted to or because of some event. 

5 minutes ago, OlBuzzard said:

The simple fact is that there are two VERY REAL sides to this entire affair.

** From the team side:  we don't see the internal matters.  From their standpoint of view many of them have worked hard trying to hold things together.  With a fresh start some of them are no doubt hoping to finally put some of the negativity in the past and move forward.  We have no idea that translates into.  We have seen a lot of disappointments in recent years.

** From our standpoint of view, even though we have no idea who made the final decisions that place this game in such a precarious position we have seen the results.  A lot of the anxiety and negativity right now is not the result of a single decision that has been made ... but rather a plethora issues, bugs, content drought, more bugs, and repeatedly pushing aside feedback from the overall community on a NUMBER of issues. 

IMO if some of us really didn't care about SWTOR  we would have left a LONG time ago!  I'm one of them.  I also care about people:  REAL people.  I try to see the big picture.  And I admit that this is one time that I don't have all of the pieces in my hands to put one together when it has been shattered, fragmented and resembles more of a puzzle than anything else.  I can also tell you that can lead to frustration!  I'm doing my best to remain optimistic.  But I can also see that optimism is strongly tempered (or perhaps overshadowed) with caution.  

I genuinely hope things change for the better.  That would be a win-win for everyone!  And frankly I think most of us could use some GOOD news for a change.

 

Also, from the team side, we don't know anything about the corporate culture they were operating in at BW. We know revenue was being diverted to other BW projects and that the SWTOR team members were shifted to work on other projects as BW felt necessary. From Chris' tweets, it could be fair to say that SWTOR was something BW didn't entirely understand. We also don't know just how involved Lucasfilm is as well. We also don't know how many levels of management there were above Keith.

We don't know how much BW supervised the development of SWTOR. Did Keith's roadmap posts stop because the team decided to stop them internally, or did BW decide they were to cease? Devoid of genuine insights and knowledge of the internal workings of BW as a whole, we can only speculate. Did the EP of SWTOR ever have one-on-one meetings with top studio executives post-launch to discuss the game's state, future plans, and budgets? Or are such meetings done at a lower level? 

Then there are James Ohlen's comments from 2 years ago when he left that BW had become "too corporate." That suggests to me that there were too many meetings taking place and too many decisions needed to be discussed in meetings. Meetings--and needing to get buy-in from several people--tends to slow down coming to any decision.

 

 

 

 

[LJ_Gibbs]

1 hour ago, JakRoanin said:

I don't see why you care what I think anyway. Did it ever occur to the doomsday players Broad sword is looking to expand and start to go into Developing AAA titles? This is an awesome springboard to do it.

 

Oh how I wish I could use the Jennifer Lawrence "ok, yeah" meme gif right now lol

[JakRoanin]

Like I said what difference do my thoughts make in your life? 

[LJ_Gibbs]

1 hour ago, OlBuzzard said:

Valid point given that company's history for several years now.  And yet the simple fact is that they have hired a large workforce (compared to their current size).  Nobody does that today without a new directive from someone at the top of the company.  That new directive isn't something done just because someone took a hankering to do so!  NO ... someone thought this through for a while.

That being said:  It's their move.  It's a risky business move (when it comes right down to it) if they REALLY are planning on GROWING SWTOR.  (That's something that has been needed for a long time now).  I agree it is still possible.  What actually take place??  That remains to be seen.

They hired people????????  So... you are saying they "hired" Broadsword so everyone over there could work on SWTOR?

Yeah ... someone thought this through for a while... EA/BW big wigs.... they saw the game is stagnant... and as long as they keep the status quo... the game will make money.  So why not pawn it off who can do the bare minimum (like the SWTOR team has been doing for YEARS)?

We are NEVER going to get more than what we have got the last 2-3 years going forward... anyone who thinks so ... doesn't quite understand how old games work.

[LJ_Gibbs]

3 minutes ago, JakRoanin said:

Like I said what difference do my thoughts make in your life? 

None... just trying to help you get out of this pipe dream you seem to have... you'll be happier and not be disappointed when very little to nothing changes.

[JakRoanin]

Thanks for the concern but the minute playing something doesn't make me happy I just stop. I don't do drama, I don't insult the people who go to work to make the game, I just stop. Easy-peasy!