Your matchmaking is making me want to quit PVP.

[IIHawkerII]

Stop punishing me for success by stacking the teams, it's annoying and unfair. I swear - I'll do amazingly in the first couple of hours, then all of a sudden I'll be exclusively matched with the same lowbie players in level 10 cosmetic shells that've never played PvP before in their lives and don't know how in the world to complete the objectives. It's not even as if the lowbies are spread out evenly - They're just all lumped together in one team. Kindly stop that kind of matchmaking, I only have one day a week to work on the season - I don't want to waste hours in obviously losing games where there's no point in even participating and I might as well sit it out and AFK.

[StrikePrice]

Matchmaking is absolutely horrendous. I saw a good video talking about it the other day ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iz0H2l8i08c

(This is not me, but I'm sure the author is here somewhere )

I personally don't think BW cares enough to try and fix the problems.

[AocaVII]

It looks to me like a lot of people are quitting and not playing anymore. This is a direct result of bad matchmaking with having to play five to seven players that are good with a guard and a healer which is impossible to play against. If you actually die on a team like that, then you are nothing.

At one time it was viable to queue with six people and even eight people with the super Q and pugs were good competition; you would even lose sometimes but now it's just a pissing contest between the people in the large groups.

You shouldn't need more than four players to farm people or win a war zone. If you need more than that, just I won't even say it.

I go in Solo or with two people or three people and do fine. I do join the big groups 5 to 8 people and it's absolutely stupid and boring.

 

The big pre-mades will ruin the PVP and there will be no more PVP 

 

 

Edited May 22, 2023 by AocaVII

[AwesomeTacoCat]

Yup. You start pvping on a new toon, do pretty well, and your reward is you get to carry bots for eternity. It’s pretty infuriating…

[sithBracer]

3 hours ago, StrikePrice said:

Matchmaking is absolutely horrendous. I saw a good video talking about it the other day ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iz0H2l8i08c

(This is not me, but I'm sure the author is here somewhere )

I personally don't think BW cares enough to try and fix the problems.

Yeah that guy is wrong about everything. I saw his tier list and it's pretty obvious he has no idea what he is talking about.

This video will explain the actual problem: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EitZRLt2G3w&ab_channel=ExtraHistory

Edited May 22, 2023 by sithBracer

[StrikePrice]

1 hour ago, sithBracer said:

Yeah that guy is wrong about everything. I saw his tier list and it's pretty obvious he has no idea what he is talking about.

This video will explain the actual problem: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EitZRLt2G3w&ab_channel=ExtraHistory

If you think that guy is wrong, I suspect you don't play. 

[Samcuu]

The overall swtor population right now is actually on par or better than it was at the end of 6.0. At the release of 7.0 it really died quit a bit but it's making a comeback now. The pvp population is a different story but the player base is there. Easiest fix they could make is just limiting the premades back to 4. Allowing 8 was always eyebrow raising. I didn't believe it when they announced it cuz 4 man premades with the right comp/players were already strong.

[AocaVII]

The other major problem which they haven't fixed which we've been asking for for about 10 years is the guard in PvP. People shouldn't need a guard in PVP; it's too overpowered for war zones.

 

You literally can't kill anything it's so so stupid. Even worse in arenas.

 

Guard was never even a thing in PvP in the beginning and everything was just fine.

The same old story they always do the opposite of what we ask. I left the game 3 years ago I was hoping it would die and  come up with something better.

Most MMOs and PVP games aren't that great right now at the moment.

Edited May 22, 2023 by AocaVII

[sithBracer]

45 minutes ago, StrikePrice said:

If you think that guy is wrong, I suspect you don't play. 

lol, I played against him a few times and I never thought anything special of him.

Now, let me ask you, have you seen his war zone (not arena) tier list? He thinks deception is S tier. That's right, deception on the same tier as madness and leth op. He thinks virulence is A tier and engineering is B tier. He thinks PT skanks are S tier while jugg skanks are B tier. He thinks IO (an amazing spec) is on the same level as arsenal. He thinks annihilation is C tier, on the same level as hatred. He thinks op healers are A tier, while sorc and merc are B tier. This is the person you want us to take seriously? Don't even get me started on his PvE tier list.

Just because he started a youtube channel, doesn't mean he knows what he is talking about. It just means he has more free time than others.

EDIT-I do agree with literally everyone though about 8 man premades. They should be limited to 4 like before.

Edited May 22, 2023 by sithBracer

[AocaVII]

If you want to know the key to Happy pvp, then listen to the following.

 

Look for which guilds that are making huge groups look in the search, search them all see if they're in war zones if they're in war zones queue if they are not in war zones don't q.

Put the players who you know are in the huge pre-made on your friends list. When you see that they are all in the war zones, then q.

Lastly, what will happen is that and I've been in huge groups they have to wait 15 minutes to even get a pop so you sit there and do nothing it's a totally dumb thing to do lol. Nevertheless, what will eventually happen is the premades will have to face the premades and one will lose and they'll stop logging on because these people can't lose they're too fragile. I have seen it happen there's two guilds that don't even play anymore because they got beat because they lost to another premade.

I practically never see huge pre-mades or face them ever 99% of the time, it's a normal war zone. If you see me in one, it was by mistake or because I was too tired.

Also what I noticed is that when you make a huge pre-made and I watch them all the time and have been in them they always get one of the three hutt balls constantly they're very rarely get a good war zone.

 

In addition, if you queue Solo in arenas, you will practically never see a premade.

They will never fix it  and other players will never change. You have to fix it yourself.

Edited May 22, 2023 by AocaVII

[Sappharan]

2 hours ago, sithBracer said:

EDIT-I do agree with literally everyone though about 8 man premades. They should be limited to 4 like before.

Yep.  However, I have never even liked 4 man premades because, as he said in his video, even 4 man premades can be absurd.  Two man’s would probably be ideal, but one battle at a time.  
 

For the present, a reduction to 4 man premades would be a welcome change. And, for the love of all that is good in this game (precious little as it turns out), remove the deserter debuff.  

[sithBracer]

4 minutes ago, Sappharan said:

Yep.  However, I have never even liked 4 man premades because, as he said in his video, even 4 man premades can be absurd.  Two man’s would probably be ideal, but one battle at a time.  
 

For the present, a reduction to 4 man premades would be a welcome change. And, for the love of all that is good in this game (precious little as it turns out), remove the deserter debuff.  

First off, they won so I don't know what he is complaining about. 

Second off, he is a bad player, so his opinion means as much to me as the crazy homeless guy in the subway.

[AocaVII]

Everyone keeps talking about change this change that. We've been saying change this change that since launch what is that 12 years? They don't listen. They will never listen. The other players will not listen. You have to take matters into your own hands and fix it yourself.

PVP,  being played at the highest levels, is having the ability to adapt and change to any and all circumstances no matter what those circumstances are. Circumstances will not change for you.

Also, having grit, tenacity, and fortitude when you get destroyed and moving on with it, not quitting. That's what separates the men from the boys.

Most of you are not swine. However this is a public forum so no more sharing pearls with swine. 

Edited May 22, 2023 by AocaVII

[StrikePrice]

3 hours ago, sithBracer said:

lol, I played against him a few times and I never thought anything special of him.

Now, let me ask you, have you seen his war zone (not arena) tier list? He thinks deception is S tier. That's right, deception on the same tier as madness and leth op. He thinks virulence is A tier and engineering is B tier. He thinks PT skanks are S tier while jugg skanks are B tier. He thinks IO (an amazing spec) is on the same level as arsenal. He thinks annihilation is C tier, on the same level as hatred. He thinks op healers are A tier, while sorc and merc are B tier. This is the person you want us to take seriously? Don't even get me started on his PvE tier list.

Just because he started a youtube channel, doesn't mean he knows what he is talking about. It just means he has more free time than others.

EDIT-I do agree with literally everyone though about 8 man premades. They should be limited to 4 like before.

What does his tier list have to do with this discussion? I get you don't like the guy, but please. You need to be ignored. 

Edited May 22, 2023 by StrikePrice

[sithBracer]

10 minutes ago, StrikePrice said:

What does his tier list have to do with this discussion? I get you don't like the guy, but please. You need to be ignored. 

It shows that he doesn't know anything about the game and has no credibility. It would be like me talking about medicine or wall street when I honestly don't know anything about it. Seriously, guy makes a youtube channel and you think he's god or something.

[Sappharan]

22 minutes ago, sithBracer said:

First off, they won so I don't know what he is complaining about. 

Second off, he is a bad player, so his opinion means as much to me as the crazy homeless guy in the subway.

First, the objective evidence is there.  Poisoning the well does not make the evidence go away.  “I didn’t think anything special of him,” is a lot different from “he is a bad player.”  The former implies at least competence.  The latter allows you to dismiss his claims out of hand.  Again, ad hominem.  Why is he a bad player?  Disagreeing with his tier lists does not make him a bad player.  Bad play makes him a bad player.  If he is a bad player…why is he a bad player?  It is a fair question.
 

Secondly, winning is not everything.  It is a LOT, but if winning is not fun, why bother?

Finally, it is obvious that nothing will change.  The population willing to PvP will diminish, the queues will get longer, and no one benefits from that.  His solutions do not seem that radical.  I do not understand your perspective on his video and on PvP in general.  It is not in a good place regardless of whether one supports or condemns premades.

[septru]

1 hour ago, Sappharan said:

For the present, a reduction to 4 man premades would be a welcome change.

Literally every single thread should be titled "Remove 5+ man premades" until BioWare listens. 

 

There is not a single player that wants 5+ man premades. Not even the players that make 5+ man premades. 

[AocaVII]

12 minutes ago, septru said:

Literally every single thread should be titled "Remove 5+ man premades" until BioWare listens. 

 

There is not a single player that wants 5+ man premades. Not even the players that make 5+ man premades. 

They do not listen.

If they listen, they do the opposite of what you say. You have to make the adjustment and the change.

We have not wanted hutt ball for 12 years. We have not wanted the guard in PVP for 12 years. The list can go on and on.

They don't understand PVP and never have and never will.

Edited May 22, 2023 by AocaVII

[Sappharan]

1 hour ago, septru said:

Literally every single thread should be titled "Remove 5+ man premades" until BioWare listens. 

 

There is not a single player that wants 5+ man premades. Not even the players that make 5+ man premades. 

 

Agreed.  Sadly, they won't.  It beggars belief that they have not addressed this, that they think it is good game design, and/or that they think it reduces toxicity.  Maybe they're just milking the cow until it becomes desiccated because ea believes that the game has run its course.  Maybe it is, as posited by posted video, in maintenance mode.

[StrikePrice]

Address it? They *wanted* this to happen. Do you think they didn't discuss what would happen if they eliminated Ranked? Look at what they did. You want to "eliminate toxicity" by dumping the most toxic players into the normal pool of players and let them absolutely stomp "normal" pvpers and new players? I mean, I saw the most recent live stream. This is not exactly the A-team of MMO development teams, but even this team must have anticipated what would happen.  They aren't going to do anything about it, because this is what they wanted. 

[sithBracer]

3 hours ago, Sappharan said:

First, the objective evidence is there.  Poisoning the well does not make the evidence go away. 

What evidence? He jumped in the back row in front of 4 enemies and got ganked like he should have, then when the healer ran to the spawn point, he followed and had almost free access while whining about premades. What do you honestly believe?  That they were on voice and were able to communicate and react that fast, but then completely ignore him when the healer was alone in the back? There was no evidence of anything other than the fact that if you jump between 4 people expect one or two of them to attack you.

 

3 hours ago, Sappharan said:

“I didn’t think anything special of him,” is a lot different from “he is a bad player.”

... ... ... ... are you serious? This is what you're complaining about? wow. Just wow.

 

3 hours ago, Sappharan said:

 Why is he a bad player?  Disagreeing with his tier lists does not make him a bad player. 

Yeah it's not about me disagreeing with him. I disagreed with mark biggs in some of his tier lists but never once said he was a bad player because none of the stuff he said was absolutely ridiculous. This guy's list is ridiculous as is his reasoning for it. It shows he knows very little about the classes and specs and how they work, therefore making him a bad player and not a good authority on anything balance related. If a person said people are all born with 2 hearts, 5 arms and 6 legs, would you trust him on any subject related to human biology? No, of course not. You would even go as far as saying he is "bad" when it comes to knowledge of human biology.

 

3 hours ago, Sappharan said:

Secondly, winning is not everything.  It is a LOT, but if winning is not fun, why bother?

... yeah I'm done, have a nice night.

Edited May 23, 2023 by sithBracer

[Sappharan]

1 hour ago, sithBracer said:

... yeah I'm done, have a nice night.

K

bye.

[TrixxieTriss]

12 hours ago, sithBracer said:

Yeah that guy is wrong about everything. I saw his tier list and it's pretty obvious he has no idea what he is talking about.

This video will explain the actual problem: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EitZRLt2G3w&ab_channel=ExtraHistory

Actually both videos are relevant.

The first explains why premades are an issue for matchmaking in a low population, low player skill environment. 

And the second video generically highlights the obvious development issues that can arise. Which have ultimately happened in swtor & led us to a low population & lower player skill environment. 

BioWare are just making the whole situation worse than it needs to be by driving even more new & old players from the game than normal player attrition. 

The first video is right in that regard. Having large premades in such a low population, ultimately breaks any semblance of matchmaking. Which drives more players from the game. Which is what we’ve been trying to point out. 

And the longer this system stays in place, the worse things will get as more people abandon PvP for good. PvP is now in the snow ball phase again. It isn’t going to improve if BioWare don’t address the situation.

[TrixxieTriss]

4 hours ago, StrikePrice said:

Address it? They *wanted* this to happen. Do you think they didn't discuss what would happen if they eliminated Ranked?

Honestly, over the years BioWare have demonstrated they are not capable of thinking more than one move ahead. If they were, they wouldn’t have made so many obvious mistakes that the whole community was screaming at them not to do. I don’t think it’s malice, I just don’t think they have the capacity to understand what’s right in front of them because they don’t understand their own game or it’s community & they think only their opinion matters. It comes across as corporate arrogance or ego 🤷🏻‍♀️. They can’t even admit mistakes or talk to us when there is a blazing issue, let alone walk back bad ideas in a timely manner. They prefer to double down because the players are always wrong in their eyes 😞

[StrikePrice]

10 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

Honestly, over the years BioWare have demonstrated they are not capable of thinking more than one move ahead. If they were, they wouldn’t have made so many obvious mistakes that the whole community was screaming at them not to do. I don’t think it’s malice, I just don’t think they have the capacity to understand what’s right in front of them because they don’t understand their own game or it’s community & they think only their opinion matters. It comes across as corporate arrogance or ego 🤷🏻‍♀️. They can’t even admit mistakes or talk to us when there is a blazing issue, let alone walk back bad ideas in a timely manner. They prefer to double down because the players are always wrong in their eyes 😞

I realize this is not the thoughtful BW of old. But, I donno. I think they are doing it on purpose. You don't think they know what's going to happen when they put GS goals like 25 warzones or 16 arenas or whatever?

I'm 100% sure there's not a computer scientist among them that could design and build a proper matchmaking system. They just don't have the skills. They are able to twittle config files and that's about it at this point. 

Edited May 23, 2023 by StrikePrice