Odds on fresh start and/or classic servers?

[Diamaht]

What do you guys think the odds are on getting fresh start or even classic servers in the future?

Or even better, would you guys want them?

I would vote yes, please and thank you.  Classic would be amazing but I would live with fresh start.

1) Economy Reset

2) Character names available from folks who have not played in 8 years

3) There is just something great about that initial experience along side everyone else.

Personally I would want much slower leveling and less soloing on a server if I it was up to me.

[GeneralGyro]

id love a swtor classic with original ability animations and vanilla leveling difficulty 1-50

[Ardrossan]

I like slower leveling...and sometimes I miss the 2.0-4.0 era, especially the planetary comms and the higher difficulty for leveling. But classic = launch sounds dreadful. Even if they tailored it to that sweet spot I think it would be extremely niche, can't imagine it would get many takers, and then what's the incentive for bioware? Maybe if they sold it for CCs but that would just lower the population further. It'd be like playing on Pot5 all over again, a dead server. 

If you want slower leveling, they sell the WAM on fleet during 2xp. It's BoL so grab it, wait for the event to end and then roll a new character with it on. There was some question whether or not it would work for subs but I tried it myself on two brand new alts, a Smuggler and BH, and doing all sidequests / exploration (no heroics though), they arrived on Fleet at level 10 and level 11 respectively. Keeping it on permanently is an option but imo inadvisable, by the time you hit Corellia you'll be 4 levels behind unless you're doing a lot of other group stuff to make up for it. I also try to leave planets a little before level sync kicks in to keep the difficulty level at the intended pace, and even with the WAM on you'll still have to skip quests on the Act 1 planets or you'll overlevel, but it's nowhere near as bad as default. 

[Diamaht]

19 minutes ago, Ardrossan said:

I like slower leveling...and sometimes I miss the 2.0-4.0 era, especially the planetary comms and the higher difficulty for leveling. But classic = launch sounds dreadful. Even if they tailored it to that sweet spot I think it would be extremely niche, can't imagine it would get many takers, and then what's the incentive for bioware? Maybe if they sold it for CCs but that would just lower the population further. It'd be like playing on Pot5 all over again, a dead server. 

If you want slower leveling, they sell the WAM on fleet during 2xp. It's BoL so grab it, wait for the event to end and then roll a new character with it on. There was some question whether or not it would work for subs but I tried it myself on two brand new alts, a Smuggler and BH, and doing all sidequests / exploration (no heroics though), they arrived on Fleet at level 10 and level 11 respectively. Keeping it on permanently is an option but imo inadvisable, by the time you hit Corellia you'll be 4 levels behind unless you're doing a lot of other group stuff to make up for it. I also try to leave planets a little before level sync kicks in to keep the difficulty level at the intended pace, and even with the WAM on you'll still have to skip quests on the Act 1 planets or you'll overlevel, but it's nowhere near as bad as default. 

Oh come on now.  It basically sounds like you are saying "I would really like that, but it'll never happen".  Be positive .  If enough people say "I'd like it but..." that sort of demand for the content is incentive enough for Bioware to do it.  It worked wonders for OSRS all those years ago, more recently it reinvigorated WoW, we are the same MMO breed so no reason to think it won't work here too.

Personally, I think it just diversifies the product they are trying to sell, and has the potential to bring a lot of people back to the game.  Not to mention, luring a slightly different, and more challenge based, crowd.  That can't be a bad thing for the players or Bioware's bottom line.

Edited May 14, 2023 by Diamaht

[Jdast]

This is one of those suggestions that I love in principle, but unfortunately we have to confront the icy cold, harsh, Hoth-like reality: scarce resources.

For a game that can only produce a few hours of story-based content per year, one Flashpoint every 15 months or so, one Operation every couple years, I would prefer (vastly so) that they channel resources and focus on new content. I can envision some long-term players waxing nostalgic and enjoying a classic server, but I don't really see it attracting new players. 

Sorry, to be Dasty Downer 🤥

Dasty

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

I hold the same view as Dasty (Jdast) on this, for the same reasons.

It's not that I'm against it in principle, it's just that the resources could be used for more important things that would effect a larger portion of the player base. It's just about looking at the bigger picture is all.

[xordevoreaux]

Who gets to define classic and the features it has? 1.0? 2.0? 3.0?

[Pirana]

No desire to have classic servers if they're anything like launch, just a reminder for some:

* No group finder, had to load into the flashpoints and Ops from the fleet
* Extremely limited end game, handful of flashpoints and one Operation, EV was all we had, it's why so many people left and the game was forced into FTP in under a year
* No GSF, don't do space, but just another aspect that was missing. Like SWG all over again, launch a Star Wars MMO without space, genius thinking, time restraints or not, poor decision
* Companions had one specific role, heal, dps or tank, couldn't be changed
* No appearance option, the horrid Columni armor you wore, that was your appearance
* Vehicles weren't an option until level 25
* Sprint level 15, yes, you had to run sluggishly around until that level, all because the company didn't want you getting to end game quickly and figuring out there wasn't one
* Anytime you loaded into a planet, you were forced to run through the orbital station prior to landing on the planet, couldn't mount up
* No Strongholds and daily heroics menu to short cut quick travel and fix their bugs when you got stuck

** Speeders on planets, (the mechanized travel spiel droid) had to be opened up by visiting each area, you couldn't click the speeder near the spaceport and travel anywhere.
** QT terminals, you had to click on the ones you wanted to open, couldn't travel anywhere you wanted to, you either had to run there or travel by speeder

** The inner ring on the fleet where the ship phase doors are located, classes had to enter their specific doors, Trooper, Smuggler, Jedi Knight etc. If you were a Trooper, you couldn't enter the Smuggler phase door for example

I'll come back and edit this post at some point and add more that I remember, but no, if classic defines the beginning of the game, you couldn't pay me to play that iteration of it, it's a huge reason why the game is where it is to this day. 

A lot of us stuck it out, I played for nearly nine years straight, so I supported the game, but at launch, other than the story, the game wasn't good. There's been too many QoL improvements since launch, or even a year or two after to even think about playing this game in its early stages.

**Added

Edited May 18, 2023 by Pirana

[SteveTheCynic]

Overall, I would say that, to answer the implied question in the thread title, "No chance at all, or maybe less than that."

[Ardrossan]

7 hours ago, Diamaht said:

Oh come on now.  It basically sounds like you are saying "I would really like that, but it'll never happen"

Not only am I--along with everyone else in the thread--saying that, but i'm also saying that there are options already available for you to have slower leveling experience without them needing to design new servers. I've seen a number of people over the years with a WAM doing content; it works out well without shifting resources away from anywhere else.  

[Char_Ell]

1 hour ago, SteveTheCynic said:

Overall, I would say that, to answer the implied question in the thread title, "No chance at all, or maybe less than that."

Prior to May 9 I would have agreed with you.  However since Eric Musco actually mentioned the possibility of a fresh start server it would seem the chance of this happening is not zero.

On 5/9/2023 at 1:04 PM, EricMusco said:

Again, thank you all for your participation and feedback! We have a lot of data and commentary to chew on before making a decision on what comes next for a possible APAC or fresh start server.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

16 minutes ago, Char_Ell said:

Prior to May 9 I would have agreed with you.  However since Eric Musco actually mentioned the possibility of a fresh start server it would seem the chance of this happening is not zero.

With respect, I'm not sure if I'd jump to the conclusion that a 'fresh start server' means a server ah-la-launch.

Additionally, if they did choose a 'fresh start server' (whatever that actually means) over an APAC server, there'd be a lot of pissed off former APAC server players on the forums come to give Bioware a dressing down, and rightly so.

[Char_Ell]

15 minutes ago, WayOfTheWarriorx said:

With respect, I'm not sure if I'd jump to the conclusion that a 'fresh start server' means a server ah-la-launch.

Additionally, if they did choose a 'fresh start server' (whatever that actually means) over an APAC server, there'd be a lot of pissed off former APAC server players on the forums come to give Bioware a dressing down, and rightly so.

You will of course interpret what Eric Musco wrote in whatever way you wish.  "Fresh start server" seems easy to define as a new server to the game so an APAC server would qualify as both a "fresh start server" and a server located in Asia-Pacific.  Personally I don't see how it makes sense from a game population distribution perspective to add an APAC server to the game but that is for BioWare to "chew on before making a decision."  I understand APAC players got their hopes up after experiencing the low latency performance on the Shae Vizla test server.

[Stradlin]

Is there enough nostalgia to justify classic servers? Class stories and planets are pretty much exactly as they used to be . MMos doing this, with Wow being most notable ofc, ended up introducing massive changes to the vanilla world, undoing and overwriting entire zones and continents. Understandable that people would miss what isn't there. Everything happening in Graham Estate today plays 1:1 like it did in 2013.

 

I'd mostly like to see one huge mega server, rather than classic ones.

 

Edited May 14, 2023 by Stradlin

[SteveTheCynic]

1 hour ago, Char_Ell said:

Prior to May 9 I would have agreed with you.  However since Eric Musco actually mentioned the possibility of a fresh start server it would seem the chance of this happening is not zero.

OK, sorry, I was talking specifically about the "classic server" part.  My bad for not making it clear.  A "fresh start" server presumably would be a new server running the current software.  (If that's what Eric was talking about, then yes, there's a reasonable chance, but I'd still say that a WoW-style classic server has the chances of, say, a snowball surviving more than a nanosecond or so in a supernova.

[ReKabNad]

I'll say that this is something I'm NOT too interested in, but I see no harm in offering it on a separate Server for those that want it.  I'm always in favor of companies giving players MORE choices and options in a game like this.  So if the option could be offered for those that want it, I'm all for that being available for them ON A SEPARATE SERVER.

Heck, if I were to see compelling gameplay differences that interested me, I might even create a character on that Server to see what the game used to be like before I started playing it.

[Diamaht]

I actually was asking about both.  A fresh start with current version and/or a "classic" style.

Didn't realize they had talked about it already.  That's fantastic!

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

2 hours ago, Char_Ell said:

You will of course interpret what Eric Musco wrote in whatever way you wish.  "Fresh start server" seems easy to define as a new server to the game so an APAC server would qualify as both a "fresh start server" and a server located in Asia-Pacific.  Personally I don't see how it makes sense from a game population distribution perspective to add an APAC server to the game but that is for BioWare to "chew on before making a decision."  I understand APAC players got their hopes up after experiencing the low latency performance on the Shae Vizla test server.

Yeah, okay, I see what you mean now. I guess a new server would be a 'freshly started' new server.

I'll be honest with you, I'm not all that in love with the idea of having any new servers currently, given that some servers (Not Star Forge), some people claim to have low populations. I can see a new server only increasing player loses as current players moving to the new server.

I'm only kinda okay with the notion of a new APAC server because, because APAC players have been living with slower game play issues since they lost their server, and like you pointed out,  APAC players got a taste of what things use to be like for them for a little while while the Shae Vizla test server was up. Seems a little cruel to me to throw that in their face and than turn around and make a new server for a 'classic feel' when I really don't see many people being all that interested in the notion anyways.

If there's gonna be a new server anyways, I personally would rather see it come to be to help a portion of the player base (as small as it may be) and may very well lead to a lot of disgruntled former APAC server players coming back to the game to play on a newly instituted APAC server and make current APAC location players very happy.

A new server, no matter what it's purpose or location, will do absolutely nothing for me either way. I'm a New Yorker, so Star Forge is perfect for me and has everything I could ask for in a server.

As I stated previously, a 'classics' based sever does seem like an awful waste of resources to me, resources I think most players would rather see going to making improvements to the game that can effect most of the player base. (New content, new raids, new PVP maps, bug fixes, game play improvements, etc.) - I certainly wouldn't mind some love for the APACers to be shown.

This is all just my personal opinion on the matter, nothing more.

Edited May 14, 2023 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[Ramalina]

Assuming they successfully transition to AWS as a server provider, then new "current client" instances should be very easy for them.  Classic might not be.  They should have the old code stored somewhere one hopes, but depending on the back end of what happened for the shift to 64 bit, getting a 64 bit classic version might be easy, or it might mean just about re-doing the 64 bit transition again from scratch.   The chances of a classic version of SWTOR depends on perceived user demand and where on that easy - hard spectrum having a 64 bit classic version would be.  That and the question of version maintenance.  They struggle to keep up with maintaining the current client, not sure they'll want another concurrent fork to maintain alongside it.

[Char_Ell]

2 hours ago, Ramalina said:

Assuming they successfully transition to AWS as a server provider, then new "current client" instances should be very easy for them. 

This is more along the lines of what I wonder.  What can AWS provide in terms of features and options that BioWare's current server infrastructure can not?  Does a new server need to be added to give APAC players the low latency they enjoyed during the Shae Vizla test?  Or can AWS support server instances from one server in different regions?  I've no idea since I've no experience with configuring applications for use in an AWS environment.

[TrixxieTriss]

I would say the odds of this happening for a “classic server” with the current low game population distributed across the current 5 servers is next Zero

Maybe if the population increases significantly & BioWare were to merge servers, the odds might go above zero to 1% 🤷🏻‍♀️

Edited May 15, 2023 by TrixxieTriss

[TrixxieTriss]

2 hours ago, Char_Ell said:

This is more along the lines of what I wonder.  What can AWS provide in terms of features and options that BioWare's current server infrastructure can not?  Does a new server need to be added to give APAC players the low latency they enjoyed during the Shae Vizla test?  Or can AWS support server instances from one server in different regions?  I've no idea since I've no experience with configuring applications for use in an AWS environment.

From my understanding after reading up on it, AWS offers both possibilities. But a lot of it come down to the games engine & virtual server structure. 

I would assume, that because of the Frankenstein Hero engine this game uses, having the multiple regional instances on the same server from different regions might be too technically problematic for BioWare to do. 

But having a dedicated local AWS server is more technically feasible to do. 

Hopefully, what ever they decide, they do offer a version of low latency play for APAC players. 

Edited May 15, 2023 by TrixxieTriss

[TrixxieTriss]

13 hours ago, Char_Ell said:

Prior to May 9 I would have agreed with you.  However since Eric Musco actually mentioned the possibility of a fresh start server it would seem the chance of this happening is not zero.

Can you please link where he stated this so I can understand the context of his statement better. 

[xordevoreaux]

10 hours ago, Char_Ell said:

What can AWS provide in terms of features and options that BioWare's current server infrastructure can not? 

1. Instant scalability. All Bioware has to do is throw money to rent more server capacity, AWS takes care of the rest.

2. Administrative overhead for servers is now AWS's problem, not Bioware's, meaning in the past, if a top-notch systems engineer walked out the door of Bioware, ouch. Replacing that person, who just left with a whole bunch of institutional knowledge of how Bioware systems need to be maintained, would have been expensive and time consuming. Now it's a  non-issue for Bioware.

3. Location-specific service. When Bioware operated the Virginia servers, they were in... Virginia, limiting connection speeds for some players in the APAC region, South Africa, etc.. Now Bioware can take advantage of a worldwide system of AWS data centers, spanning 31 geographic regions with more planned.

[jedimasterjac]

8 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

Can you please link where he stated this so I can understand the context of his statement better. 

On mobile so it won’t be properly formatted:

Again, thank you all for your participation and feedback! We have a lot of data and commentary to chew on before making a decision on what comes next for a possible APAC or fresh start server. That said, Shae Vizla was alsoanother scale test for us having our servers "in the cloud" and so this test also helps drive us towards the goal ofgetting our service and our servers all onto AWS.

Nothing specific to announce on timing or specifics, but know there is a lot happening behind the scenes still on these efforts. We'll communicate more when we can.

https://forums.swtor.com/topic/929191-game-update-73-livestream-recap/