Well, the Unthinkable and "Impossible" just happened...

[tritiya]

Because of this smartly implemented Quick Travel Credit Cost (which is supposed to battle inflation) a new player got stuck and couldn't use quick travel.

Just minutes ago on server "Star Forge" a brand new player Level 2 did get stuck inside one of the Holoprojectors on their first class mission (Consular)...

Told them using the "/stuck" command, it didn't help (the reason writing this as a Bug Report).

They said quicktravel cost more than they can afford, tried trade window-ing to give them some credits for travel... an error message (red letters) says they needed to be at least level 10, (I was 18 due to the 2x XP event going on). The situation was resolved by inviting the player to duel and using a push skill...

Quick travel isn't only "a convinience", "a luxury". It can be an emergency Unstuck when the /stuck command doesn't help. I have used it this way more than once...

[jedimasterjac]

Great reminder that the /stuck function really needs to be reworked. 

Pretty common to get stuck on rocks/world geometry, and stuck will teleport you out of the infinite falling glitch but not out of the geometry, leaving any movement to reignite the infinite falling.

[DWho]

It wasn't really unthinkable or impossible. It was brought up during the PTS testing and at least they made the "jump to stronghold and back" not have a cost (there are other glitches that require you to leave your current location and return too), but you can't have a stronghold until level 10 (or was it 15) so your "stuck" in more ways than one. I think QT costs should be 0 at least until you hit level 10 and can get a stronghold (The capital world ones are pretty cheap).

[xordevoreaux]

A catch-call fail safe for all players of all levels to address situations like this where Bioware did not think things through would be a  /home command, which puts players on their starting planet at the starting position, and they can go from there. Easy enough on your starting planet at that point to kill enough crap to earn enough credits to travel.

 

[eabevella]

1 hour ago, xordevoreaux said:

A catch-call fail safe for all players of all levels to address situations like this where Bioware did not think things through would be a  /home command, which puts players on their starting planet at the starting position, and they can go from there. Easy enough on your starting planet at that point to kill enough crap to earn enough credits to travel.

 

This is a good idea because very often /stuck doesn't work.

[TahliahCOH]

This is a good point. I use Quick Travel to get unstuck when /stuck doesn't work (as long as the game doesn't register me as "moving" while I'm stuck in some bit of scenery or whatever).

I've given credits to new players for travel a number of times, and I've seen a couple of people parked on home worlds offering travel creds and speeders to new players, too. Repair costs at low levels are tough, plus the "enhanced" travel costs, but it is hard because most new players are just trying out the game, so they are free to play, so you can't trade them some creds or speeders. It's frustrating because you want to help them, but you really can't.

[Eckrond]

Less of an argument against QT prices a more an argument for a /kill or /die command.

[DWho]

37 minutes ago, Eckrond said:

Less of an argument against QT prices a more an argument for a /kill or /die command.

Except that QT already exists in the game. A /kill or /die mechanic would need to be added (and would contain who knows how many bugs). Again, almost everyone is fine with QT having a fee (It's the amount that is at issue). The issue is that the fee inordinately affects new players who are deciding whether to subscribe to the game, something this game desperately needs.

Edited May 5, 2023 by DWho

[jedimasterjac]

13 minutes ago, DWho said:

Except that QT already exists in the game. A /kill or /die mechanic would need to be added (and would contain who knows how many bugs). Again, almost everyone is fine with QT having a fee (It's the amount that is at issue). The issue is that the fee inordinately affects new players who are deciding whether to subscribe to the game, something this game desperately needs.

I'd argue the experience of being stuck in geometry at level 2, needing to /stuck, having the /stuck tool not work, and then having to utilize quick travel to circumvent it is probably more damaging to a new player's experience than that QT having a fee.

And, don't get me wrong - I think that QT fees don't make a lot of sense. But how many new players even know quick travel exists?

[Darev]

13 hours ago, xordevoreaux said:

A catch-call fail safe for all players of all levels to address situations like this where Bioware did not think things through would be a  /home command, which puts players on their starting planet at the starting position, and they can go from there. Easy enough on your starting planet at that point to kill enough crap to earn enough credits to travel.

 

That's a really good idea!

[Balameb]

27 minutes ago, jedimasterjac said:

And, don't get me wrong - I think that QT fees don't make a lot of sense. But how many new players even know quick travel exists?

It is true that while in SWTOR you don't see it from the start, is also not that hard to find.

Anyone looking at the skills window will find it, that is something a lot a people do the moment they start.

Also, if they played some of other current mmos they might even look for it in particular.

[xordevoreaux]

1 hour ago, Balameb said:

It is true that while in SWTOR you don't see it from the start, is also not that hard to find.

Anyone looking at the skills window will find it, that is something a lot a people do the moment they start.

Also, if they played some of other current mmos they might even look for it in particular.

Actually you do see it from the start, quick travel price is smacked on the destination.  I just logged my irriation on that on the PTS server feedback forum, earning 328 credits in completing my initial quests but needing 550 credits to quick travel back to complete the turn in I forget. New players see the prices.

[DWho]

2 hours ago, Balameb said:

Also, if they played some of other current mmos they might even look for it in particular.

This is an important point. In 2023 people expect different things than they did back in 2011. Back then we were just coming off the grind fest that was Star Wars Galaxies and people were willing to put up with the slog and the grind because that was all they knew. In the past decade, lots of QoL changes have been made to every major MMO and anyone playing them has come across one with a "rapid transit" function. It's just something that is expected now and with tons of MMOs with that feature, having it restricted (however little you think it is) can be the difference between subbing to SWTOR or some other MMO.

[Pirana]

This is par for the course with this company. I took roughly fifteen months off from this game, come back and see the prices on quick travel and there was nothing more I could do but laugh. Right on cue. lol  Adds to the extensive list of questionable and poor decisions here.

If someone at EAWare thought this was going to fix, or even make a dent in the economy, they're wrong. People such as myself that have been here since launch, the cost doesn't affect me, new players, just a small red flag. lol These prices should not exist, or at the very least scale with level and/or planet. Terrible idea.

Good job team, you still have what it takes.

[JCDenton]

I'm okay with paid travel, I think the game needs credit sinks. The best solution would be fixing the /stuck command to no longer need workarounds. Failing that, every planet could have a freebie travel point. You get stuck on Tython, you don't have credits, /stuck isn't doing it, you can always quick travel back to that starting platform for free.

[Nee-Elder]

34 minutes ago, JCDenton said:

 I think the game needs credit sinks.

Sure but the problem with SWTOR is:  Credit sinks have little to no impact, because the bulk of most player wealth comes from spending ostensibly unlimited RL money$ into Cartel Market for  in-game resales.  ( aka legal credit conversion )

So the argument is  "Cartel Market sales fund the game & servers to stay open!" . --Great , but it comes at great expense to game economy & integrity.

40 minutes ago, JCDenton said:

 The best solution would be ______

To slowly ween players off the CM drug  by fixing Crafting in such a way to encourage a more Looting, Harvesting, & Manufacturing  driven economy.

Why would a new player spend time making products for profits ( or playing endgame content for rare loot ) when all they really have to do to become "rich" is buy a couple Hypercrates and bam they're a billionaire.

45 minutes ago, JCDenton said:

IFailing that, every planet could have a freebie travel point. You get stuck on Tython, you don't have credits, /stuck isn't doing it, you can always quick travel back to that starting platform for free.

We sort of already have that ^ to some degree, with Legacy Perks ( one time fee to unlock each box ) .

But maybe it could be expanded to appyl to ALL planets, in case of  OP 'stuck' situations yeah.

[TrixxieTriss]

On 5/5/2023 at 4:42 AM, tritiya said:

Because of this smartly implemented Quick Travel Credit Cost (which is supposed to battle inflation) a new player got stuck and couldn't use quick travel.

Just minutes ago on server "Star Forge" a brand new player Level 2 did get stuck inside one of the Holoprojectors on their first class mission (Consular)...

Told them using the "/stuck" command, it didn't help (the reason writing this as a Bug Report).

They said quicktravel cost more than they can afford, tried trade window-ing to give them some credits for travel... an error message (red letters) says they needed to be at least level 10, (I was 18 due to the 2x XP event going on). The situation was resolved by inviting the player to duel and using a push skill...

Quick travel isn't only "a convinience", "a luxury". It can be an emergency Unstuck when the /stuck command doesn't help. I have used it this way more than once...

This was pointed out to BioWare when they first announced these QT taxes.

It was suggested to BioWare that new players would be overly affected by these changes & ideas were put forward by players on how to mitigate them.

BioWare ignored the ideas & the logic behind them & now you have seen first hand how this affects new players unduly.

They aren’t going to get rid of the QT tax. That would be like admitting they made a mistake (never going to happen). But BioWare could look at some of the ideas put to them on mitigating these issues. 

Edited May 6, 2023 by TrixxieTriss

[Eckrond]

15 hours ago, DWho said:

Except that QT already exists in the game. A /kill or /die mechanic would need to be added (and would contain who knows how many bugs). Again, almost everyone is fine with QT having a fee (It's the amount that is at issue). The issue is that the fee inordinately affects new players who are deciding whether to subscribe to the game, something this game desperately needs.

No bugs, it would contain no bugs, because it is exactly what happens when you use /stuck while in combat now.  Again, not an argument against QT prices.

[tritiya]

22 hours ago, jedimasterjac said:

I'd argue the experience of being stuck in geometry at level 2, needing to /stuck, having the /stuck tool not work, and then having to utilize quick travel to circumvent it is probably more damaging to a new player's experience than that QT having a fee.

And, don't get me wrong - I think that QT fees don't make a lot of sense. But how many new players even know quick travel exists?

If they ask how to unstuck and say the command doesn't work after they try it people can halp in chat and recommend using (and how to find it in the menus) the quick travel.

[tritiya]

On 5/5/2023 at 7:12 AM, TahliahCOH said:

This is a good point. I use Quick Travel to get unstuck when /stuck doesn't work (as long as the game doesn't register me as "moving" while I'm stuck in some bit of scenery or whatever).

I've given credits to new players for travel a number of times, and I've seen a couple of people parked on home worlds offering travel creds and speeders to new players, too. Repair costs at low levels are tough, plus the "enhanced" travel costs, but it is hard because most new players are just trying out the game, so they are free to play, so you can't trade them some creds or speeders. It's frustrating because you want to help them, but you really can't.

And you can open a trading menu with someone under level 10. Learned this when tried to request a trade with this level 2 player who got stuck to give them some traveling money.

[DWho]

7 hours ago, Eckrond said:

because it is exactly what happens when you use /stuck while in combat now

If you are "in combat" is the relevant part of your statement, in which case you could just let yourself die and respawn at the nearest medcenter affecting the same thing as a /die or /kill mechanic would do except you wouldn't have to wait (still, new code is required to incorporate the "console command"). If you are stuck out of combat (which happens a lot more often than being stuck in combat), /stuck only moves you a short distance away which may or may not result in you still being stuck. Also note that traveling to your stronghold and back is also not a guarantee you will not still be stuck as it places you back in the same location you came from.

[SteveTheCynic]

On 5/5/2023 at 12:06 AM, DWho said:

you can't have a stronghold until level 10 (or was it 15)

Incorrect.  You need 5K credits (or a spit-all handful during the Anniversary events) and a way to get to the Fleet.  The "buy and visit a stronghold" mission requires level 15, but simply buying and going to a stronghold does not.  And if you already have one (bought by another character), you can definitely go there at level 1, unless it's the opposite-faction capital world stronghold, in which case you need a pile of credits to be smuggled across the border, which a level 1 might not have.

[Pirana]

2 hours ago, DWho said:

If you are "in combat" is the relevant part of your statement, in which case you could just let yourself die and respawn at the nearest medcenter affecting the same thing as a /die or /kill mechanic would do except you wouldn't have to wait (still, new code is required to incorporate the "console command"). If you are stuck out of combat (which happens a lot more often than being stuck in combat), /stuck only moves you a short distance away which may or may not result in you still being stuck. Also note that traveling to your stronghold and back is also not a guarantee you will not still be stuck as it places you back in the same location you came from.

It will be if you soft log (character select), then log back in. You will be placed in the orbitol station or the load-in zone. This is also how you circumvent the quick travel fees, port to your SH, soft log, log back in, exit area and head back to the planet, you're now in the loading zone for the planet, take the nearest shuttle.

[Ramalina]

21 hours ago, Nee-Elder said:

Sure but the problem with SWTOR is:  Credit sinks have little to no impact, because the bulk of most player wealth comes from spending ostensibly unlimited RL money$ into Cartel Market for  in-game resales.  ( aka legal credit conversion )

So the argument is  "Cartel Market sales fund the game & servers to stay open!" . --Great , but it comes at great expense to game economy & integrity.

People keep saying this despite it being factually incorrect.

Repeat after me, however many times it takes to sink in: CM TRANSACTIONS DO NOT CREATE CREDITS IN GAME. 

 

They just offer an incentive for players to transfer existing credits to other players.  "Tax" those transfers, and you actually have a useful inflation fighting tool.

 

If you want to fight inflation in SWTOR: don't complete quests that reward credits or things you can vendor for credits, don't gather resources for crafting that can be vendored for credits, don't loot NPCs for credits or items that can be sold for credits.    Quest rewards, credits looted from dead NPCs, and in game vendors that pay credits to players when players sell their "junk" are the sources of credits in SWTOR.   If a player can generate a few million credits, as in new credits that did not exist before in game, in a few hours of gameplay, then if the game doesn't also destroy an equivalent amount, via repair costs, GTN tax, vendors selling things for credits, etc. then the difference accumulates in the in game economy.   In general credit rewards have been given an upward bump with every expansion, and costs have stayed static or gone down.   Resulting in inflation, then in hyperinflation.   Of course, lack of policing things like bot farming and credit exploits doesn't help either, but as long as regular gameplay produces a lot more credits than it destroys, the underlying issue isn't resolved.  

[DWho]

21 minutes ago, Ramalina said:

as long as regular gameplay produces a lot more credits than it destroys, the underlying issue isn't resolved. 

The issue right now is that there are too many credits already in the game. You could cut rewards to zero and it would have virtually no impact on that issue (and thus prices). It is the excessive number of credits available (via credit sellers, daily missions, etc) plus those already in the game (which is far more than is generated by normal play by any player) that is driving prices up. People list things for higher and higher prices because they know that people will use whatever means necessary (whether legitimate or not) to acquire large numbers of credits. Taxing all trades will reduce the number of credits in game precisely because they do not generate credits on their own. If you put in a sink that takes out 5% of the credits earned then 95% of those credits still go into the game. You need to tax non credit generating activities to pull credits out of the game.