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Quarterly Producer Letter for Q2 2024 ×

7.3 Credit Economy Initiative: Updates and the GTN


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On 6/21/2023 at 7:00 AM, DawnAskham said:

and credit for the ban wave

Can someone please point me to where they said anything about a ban wave for credit sellers. I’ve seen nothing from BioWare, either officially or unofficially. All I see is speculation on this forum that something happened. 

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10 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

Can someone please point me to where they said anything about a ban wave for credit sellers. I’ve seen nothing from BioWare, either officially or unofficially.

That ^ word has no meaning for BioWare when it comes to *exploits* .

And you should know by now, with your 18k posts all these years, that BioWare ( nor any MMO Devs ) rarely ever announces anything official about exploits unless they absolutely have to.

Furthermore,  @DWho already sorta told you here: https://forums.swtor.com/topic/929143-73-credit-economy-initiative-updates-and-the-gtn/?do=findComment&comment=9756912

And it was also mentioned by another poster here: https://forums.swtor.com/topic/928350-fun-financial-facts/?do=findComment&comment=9748858

AND, lastly,  you & anyone can see the BioWare version of an "official comment" about it here: https://www.swtor.com/patchnotes/04062023/game-update-7.2.1a

 ( re:  "Previously fixed with a hotfix:  Credits from COD mail can now only be claimed once." )

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19 minutes ago, Nee-Elder said:

That ^ word has no meaning for BioWare when it comes to *exploits* .

And you should know by now, with your 18k posts all these years, that BioWare ( nor any MMO Devs ) rarely ever announces anything official about exploits unless they absolutely have to.

Furthermore,  @DWho already sorta told you here: https://forums.swtor.com/topic/929143-73-credit-economy-initiative-updates-and-the-gtn/?do=findComment&comment=9756912

And it was also mentioned by another poster here: https://forums.swtor.com/topic/928350-fun-financial-facts/?do=findComment&comment=9748858

AND, lastly,  you & anyone can see the BioWare version of an "official comment" about it here: https://www.swtor.com/patchnotes/04062023/game-update-7.2.1a

 ( re:  "Previously fixed with a hotfix:  Credits from COD mail can now only be claimed once." )

First, there are unofficial channels with BioWare. Ie, influencers & third party social media interactions with team members. Ie, Podcasts, Discord, Twitter & occasionally Reddit.

Ive found out lots of things over the years from unofficial BioWare communication that isn’t allowed to be discussed on the forums. I think you know that because Chris.S used to communicate a lot on Discord. 

Not one of your links has any meaning except referring another forum poster insinuating credit seller bans. And the BioWare link is in reference to fixing a potential exploit. But no where are there any BioWare references to ban waves on actual credit sellers (not exploiters, I didn’t mention those). Which is what I was referring too.

All I asked for was some official or unofficial BioWare reference to any credit seller bans. And there is none. Which means my point stands. People are just theorising this happened without one iota of evidence. When the simplest explanation is the changes BioWare made. But instead, everyone would rather dive down the conspiracy rabbit hole these days instead of looking for evidence or actual document facts.

As for BioWare referencing credit seller bans. They have actually announced some of those in the past after they’ve done it. So it’s not unprecedented for them to do so. I just wanted to know if they had done so & I had missed it somehow. 

Edited by TrixxieTriss
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39 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

All I asked for was some official or unofficial BioWare reference to any credit seller bans. And there is none.

Your premise is flawed and silly, since you know very well BioWare barely discusses ANYTHING on these forums  recently , much less super secret private credit-seller bans.

Sometimes your apparent narrative-seeking is truly baffling to me.   It's almost like someone trying to demand someone prove a negative. :rolleyes:

39 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

As for BioWare referencing credit seller bans. They have actually announced some of those in the past after they’ve done it. So it’s not unprecedented for them to do so. I just wanted to know if they had done so & I had missed it somehow. 

You did miss it, twice in fact.

First when they mentioned it ( albeit subtley ) in the patch notes  and then you just missed it again for a second time when i replied to you with those same exact patch notes. :ph_lol:  ( the exploit was related to the credit-sellers, as far as i'm aware )

That's about as good as you're gonna get on the topic.

If that's not enough for you, well, maybe go do your own digging?

Otherwise, not sure what else to tell ya , so i'll let u guys get back to this wonderful thread discussion now.

Edited by Nee-Elder
Reason: i should've known better than to reply into a rabbit-hole
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Credit Tax Suggestion - Strongholds:

 

Currently, strongholds offer a max 150% bonus to conquest; 25% per stronghold. Many players also enjoy this bonus, however I think that a good way to help balance conquest a bit more and our tax issue is to rework taxes to work with our personal strongholds.

 

Complete Revamp Suggestion:

  • The stronghold conquest bonus has been increased to 200%
    • Each unlocked player stronghold contributes 25%, requiring 8 strongholds
  • A stronghold may only contribute to the stronghold conquest bonus once fully unlocked and a monthly property tax is paid
    • Monthly property tax - Each stronghold now requires a payment of 5,000,000 credits per 30 calendar days to apply the 25% conquest bonus. This tax is legacy specific per server. Any stronghold not paying this tax will still be functional, however it will not contribute to the stronghold conquest bonus
    • Conquest bonus points are now calculated by the number of qualifying strongholds unlocked at the time they are rewarded

Rational - Players retain strongholds and now the bonus they grant towards personal and guild conquest are taxed to help make the system more fair. In turn, the maximum conquest bonus has been increased to 200% making it easier to achieve conquest goals during the week.

 

  • For a 200% bonus, players will pay 40,000,000 credits every 30 days.
  • For a 150% bonus, players will pay 30,000,000 credits every 30 days.
  • For a 100% bonus, players will pay 20,000,000 credits every 30 days.
  • For a 50% bonus, players will pay 10,000,000 credits every 30 days.

 

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53 minutes ago, Ludwig_VanCover said:

Credit Tax Suggestion - Strongholds:

 

Currently, strongholds offer a max 150% bonus to conquest; 25% per stronghold. Many players also enjoy this bonus, however I think that a good way to help balance conquest a bit more and our tax issue is to rework taxes to work with our personal strongholds.

 

Complete Revamp Suggestion:

  • The stronghold conquest bonus has been increased to 200%
    • Each unlocked player stronghold contributes 25%, requiring 8 strongholds
  • A stronghold may only contribute to the stronghold conquest bonus once fully unlocked and a monthly property tax is paid
    • Monthly property tax - Each stronghold now requires a payment of 5,000,000 credits per 30 calendar days to apply the 25% conquest bonus. This tax is legacy specific per server. Any stronghold not paying this tax will still be functional, however it will not contribute to the stronghold conquest bonus
    • Conquest bonus points are now calculated by the number of qualifying strongholds unlocked at the time they are rewarded

Rational - Players retain strongholds and now the bonus they grant towards personal and guild conquest are taxed to help make the system more fair. In turn, the maximum conquest bonus has been increased to 200% making it easier to achieve conquest goals during the week.

 

  • For a 200% bonus, players will pay 40,000,000 credits every 30 days.
  • For a 150% bonus, players will pay 30,000,000 credits every 30 days.
  • For a 100% bonus, players will pay 20,000,000 credits every 30 days.
  • For a 50% bonus, players will pay 10,000,000 credits every 30 days.

 

Why should we have to pay a property tax on something we already paid millions for. I would literally, as I’m sure others would, just stop using my SH’s. 
 

I don’t think you’ve fully thought this through. People would literally quit the game in protest. We’ve already seen how unhappy people are with the trade taxes. Your idea would backfire spectacularly as more & more people (especially newer ones) stopped bothering with conquest as they stopped using their SH’s. That would mean less content for people to do, which would lead to even more people leaving the game. 

We don’t need anymore taxes to fix the economy. The recent taxes are more than enough to do so. 

Edited by TrixxieTriss
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47 minutes ago, Ludwig_VanCover said:

Credit Tax Suggestion - Strongholds

Complete Revamp Suggestion:

  • The stronghold conquest bonus has been increased to 200%
    • Each unlocked player stronghold contributes 25%, requiring 8 strongholds
  • A stronghold may only contribute to the stronghold conquest bonus once fully unlocked and a monthly property tax is paid
    • Monthly property tax - Each stronghold now requires a payment of 5,000,000 credits per 30 calendar days to apply the 25% conquest bonus. This tax is legacy specific per server. Any stronghold not paying this tax will still be functional, however it will not contribute to the stronghold conquest bonus
    • Conquest bonus points are now calculated by the number of qualifying strongholds unlocked at the time they are rewarded

Rational - Players retain strongholds and now the bonus they grant towards personal and guild conquest are taxed to help make the system more fair. In turn, the maximum conquest bonus has been increased to 200% making it easier to achieve conquest goals during the week.

 

  • For a 200% bonus, players will pay 40,000,000 credits every 30 days.
  • For a 150% bonus, players will pay 30,000,000 credits every 30 days.
  • For a 100% bonus, players will pay 20,000,000 credits every 30 days.
  • For a 50% bonus, players will pay 10,000,000 credits every 30 days.

 

The only suggestions I have seen that would cause me to quit faster than the above are those proposing a credit wipe or imposing a retroactive cap of X amount (usually insanely low) per legacy.

:csw_jabba:

Dasty

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1 minute ago, Jdast said:

The only suggestions I have seen that would cause me to quit faster than the above are those proposing a credit wipe or imposing a retroactive cap of X amount (usually insanely low) per legacy.

:csw_jabba:

Dasty

100%. I would literally delete my accounts and never look back if they did a credit wipe. 
A move like that would probably shutter the game faster than Musco tipping coffee all over the servers & destroying the backups. 

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I am already unhappy with Bioware/EA enforcing "Bind on Pickup" for some vendor items that I was able to sell, that are NOT only 1 Credit, but 75k and more.  That was my primary way of earning credits as a solo player.  The other was completing Heroics and the Bonuses, which they also took away earning credits for.  I don't even bother doing bonuses now.  Way to kill more fun.

The absolutely ridiculously high fees for mailing an item to another play ensure that I am even more pissed.  (Literally over 700k to email a damn pet!)

I have barely played since this started because it took a lot of joy from my playtime and I am not sure I'll even be renewing.

One more takeaway and I'm gone.  I'm sick of it and this huge overreaction.

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3 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

People are just theorising this happened without one iota of evidence. When the simplest explanation is the changes BioWare made. But instead, everyone would rather dive down the conspiracy rabbit hole these days instead of looking for evidence or actual document facts.

I was skeptical too, but char_ell's post in the link below made me think that less access to credit sellers was the biggest cause of the deflation we've been seeing for three last few months.

https://forums.swtor.com/topic/929354-just-so-you-wont-say-it-wasnt-predictable/?do=findComment&comment=9757724

The dates he shows where credit seller prices started going up coincide with when I saw the prices in the market going down. Even if you don't think bioware banned sellers, something happened. It's extremely hard for me to believe the tiny QT costs and repair fees had any significant impact on the economy compared to credit seller prices quadrupling.

7.3 seems to be lowering prices on the GTN in some areas at least. Packs for sure, and I've heard OEM/RPM as well, though I don't really follow those. Those make sense since I think those were traded heavily in trade chat before, so now prices are lower due to competition. 

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1 hour ago, microstyles said:

The dates he shows where credit seller prices started going up coincide with when I saw the prices in the market going down

It also coincides with BioWares announced changes and the PTS going live with them. 

The writing was on the wall that it was going to get harder for the credit sellers to acquire cheap credits. So they got in early and jacked up their prices. It’s what I would have done. 

Prices also dropped because players with lots of credits started to sit on them because they new what was coming. 

See you don’t need to jump to potentially made up stuff to justify the drops or increases in credit prices or GTN prices. Especially when BioWares announced changes also line up with those dates. 

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14 hours ago, Ludwig_VanCover said:

Credit Tax Suggestion - Strongholds:

 

Currently, strongholds offer a max 150% bonus to conquest; 25% per stronghold. Many players also enjoy this bonus, however I think that a good way to help balance conquest a bit more and our tax issue is to rework taxes to work with our personal strongholds.

 

Complete Revamp Suggestion:

  • The stronghold conquest bonus has been increased to 200%
    • Each unlocked player stronghold contributes 25%, requiring 8 strongholds
  • A stronghold may only contribute to the stronghold conquest bonus once fully unlocked and a monthly property tax is paid
    • Monthly property tax - Each stronghold now requires a payment of 5,000,000 credits per 30 calendar days to apply the 25% conquest bonus. This tax is legacy specific per server. Any stronghold not paying this tax will still be functional, however it will not contribute to the stronghold conquest bonus
    • Conquest bonus points are now calculated by the number of qualifying strongholds unlocked at the time they are rewarded

Rational - Players retain strongholds and now the bonus they grant towards personal and guild conquest are taxed to help make the system more fair. In turn, the maximum conquest bonus has been increased to 200% making it easier to achieve conquest goals during the week.

 

  • For a 200% bonus, players will pay 40,000,000 credits every 30 days.
  • For a 150% bonus, players will pay 30,000,000 credits every 30 days.
  • For a 100% bonus, players will pay 20,000,000 credits every 30 days.
  • For a 50% bonus, players will pay 10,000,000 credits every 30 days.

 

Good luck with that...  🤦‍♀️

We are trying to get rid of credit sellers, not attract them. 

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15 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

It also coincides with BioWares announced changes and the PTS going live with them. 

The writing was on the wall that it was going to get harder for the credit sellers to acquire cheap credits. So they got in early and jacked up their prices. It’s what I would have done. 

Prices also dropped because players with lots of credits started to sit on them because they new what was coming. 

See you don’t need to jump to potentially made up stuff to justify the drops or increases in credit prices or GTN prices. Especially when BioWares announced changes also line up with those dates. 

Mayority of players only finds the changes after the fact.

GTN prices and Sellers exchange shift was massive in a very short period so it can't be accounted in whales sitting on their credits. That would have shown a lower curve.

Between that, and BW making Seller's stock disapear. My money would be on the second.

 

Now as for jumping to conclusions, i can do one better (in the crazy department), there was an issue a few days before that was curious: The mail credit exploit. Several people like me thought 'that was it', now the sellers have restocked and will make things worst. Suddenly, the opposite happened. Well, what if it was BW method to track the credits? As in the exploit was actually a honey trap. And just as i think about that, i could also be a cinic and think that it was what happend, but was unintentional cause no one in BW has enough brains to actually plan something like that ahead.

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18 hours ago, microstyles said:

The dates he shows where credit seller prices started going up coincide with when I saw the prices in the market going down. Even if you don't think bioware banned sellers, something happened. It's extremely hard for me to believe the tiny QT costs and repair fees had any significant impact on the economy compared to credit seller prices quadrupling.

It seems TrixieTriss does not think BioWare took any action against credits sellers in mid-March.  Just note her explanation for what happened has no more evidence backing it up than yours.  It's just what she chooses to believe.

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2 hours ago, Char_Ell said:

It seems TrixieTriss does not think BioWare took any action against credits sellers in mid-March.  Just note her explanation for what happened has no more evidence backing it up than yours.  It's just what she chooses to believe.

That’s isn’t actually the case. I’ve asked for some proof and all I’ve seen is theories stating that it happened like it was fact. It’s when people start stating things as fact when they have no proof, that conspiracies get traction. I’m just trying to get people to temper their rhetoric because they are just theories at this point, nothing more. They maybe right, but they could also be wrong.

I’ll readily admit that BioWare have told us in the past that they continue to ban credit selling accounts as they come across them, but those odd handful of bans wouldn’t have a major affect on the economy. They would have to do a big operation to make such a major impact. And usually they tell us after the fact that this has happened (most of the time). Except no where have I seen any confirmation of this from official or non-official channels. 

The simplest explanation is their announcements to make sweeping changes to the economy with taxes/fees had a semi-immediate affect before they actually implemented them. Especially once some of those changes went live on the PTS. Players and credit sellers alike could see what was coming well before 7.3 went live and started making adjustments to their business plans & spending habits. 

Without proof of any bans, I’m looking at the simplest explanation based on the evidence at hand, which is how I’ve explained it.

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23 hours ago, microstyles said:

I was skeptical too, but char_ell's post in the link below made me think that less access to credit sellers was the biggest cause of the deflation we've been seeing for three last few months.

It's ONE of the causes.

But just like with most things financial, there is a cumulative ( some might even say comprehensive ) effect going on, with various factors, which frankly has only just begun to show real impact.

In SWG, we used to have these things called 'Astromech Stats'  ( on certain Friday Features ) .  I've always wished BioWare offered up similar in-game metrics  from SWTOR to show the public.   Alas, it has never happened though.

5 hours ago, Char_Ell said:

It seems TrixieTriss does not think BioWare took any action against credits sellers in mid-March. 

Part of being such a frequent forum-poster is  sometimes playing the skeptic contrarian just for the sake of doing so. ;)

2 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

. I’ve asked for some proof and all I’ve seen is theories stating that it happened like it was fact.

i know better by now than to try convincing YOU of all people of anything ( even though i still foolishly tried yesterday :csw_jabbapet: ) , but just for anyone else reading this thread:  The "bans"  in question are directly related to recent BioWare intel shown here.....

https://www.swtor.com/patchnotes/04062023/game-update-7.2.1a  ( re: Credits from COD mail can now only be claimed once. )

In my educated opinion, those Patch Notes are "proof" enough and most likely as much as we'll ever get on the topic, officially.

Edited by Nee-Elder
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3 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

Without proof of any bans, I’m looking at the simplest explanation based on the evidence at hand, which is how I’ve explained it.

I provided my observations in the post that microstyles linked to.  You seemed to ignore the info I provided back then and I will not be surprised if you continue to ignore it.  There is no statement from BioWare about any action against credit sellers that I'm aware of.  There is also no statement from BioWare that they observed credit sellers adjusted their rates due to the incoming economic rates.  You choose to believe that credit sellers adjusted the rates upward in advance of the economic changes they saw were in the works.  I believe credit sellers lost a bunch of credits and thus hiked their rates and it's likely they lost those credits due to unannounced BioWare action against them.  Both scenarios are plausible.  I don't know why you think yours is the simplest to believe.  It seems simple enough to believe BioWare finally took much needed action against the credit sellers.  🤷‍♂️

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1 hour ago, Char_Ell said:

I provided my observations in the post that microstyles linked to.  You seemed to ignore the info I provided back then and I will not be surprised if you continue to ignore it.  There is no statement from BioWare about any action against credit sellers that I'm aware of.  There is also no statement from BioWare that they observed credit sellers adjusted their rates due to the incoming economic rates.  You choose to believe that credit sellers adjusted the rates upward in advance of the economic changes they saw were in the works.  I believe credit sellers lost a bunch of credits and thus hiked their rates and it's likely they lost those credits due to unannounced BioWare action against them.  Both scenarios are plausible.  I don't know why you think yours is the simplest to believe.  It seems simple enough to believe BioWare finally took much needed action against the credit sellers.  🤷‍♂️

I’m only suggesting that people stop reporting the ban narrative as fact when there is zero information that it happened. 

I’m all for a good theory discussion on why it might’ve happen. Wether it’s yours or mine. But what I won’t support is people stating things as facts & then offering zero evidence to support it. That’s how conspiracies start & grow into something that didn’t happen. 

I’m also not ruling out that bans happened. I’m just asking if anyone has any solid proof besides a theory. If bans did happen, then of course I’m really happy they did. It shows BioWare are really on the ball. 

But I’m also not ready to jump on that theory yet just because it’s a convenient narrative. I think we should wait & see because I still think it’s possible/probably that it has more to do with BioWares announced changes & them implementing them. 

Either reason is good for the game because the prices on the GTN started to fall & credits became a lot more expensive for credit seller to acquire. For all we know we might both be right at the same time. Either way, it’s a win-win for BioWare & the game.

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I don’t know if the devs are monitoring this or not, but I just wanted to say that the current state of the economy is preventing me from returning to the game except to play alts at a low level.  
 

I recently logged into my first character who started on day one of SWTOR.  I’ve been gone a good while and I only have about 34 million credits on her. At level 75 I cannot even afford green mods on the GTN.  
 

Honestly, I’m sure there is some way to make enough to participate meaningfully in the economy, but I just decided to let my time run out and stay gone.  I do miss the game, but like a lot of MMOs once you’re gone it’s so hard to catch up.  I don’t have an answer for that. 

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58 minutes ago, Master-Nala said:

. At level 75 I cannot even afford green mods on the GTN. 

Due to bolster , gearing doesn't really matter until  Level 80 .  So there's no reason to waste ANY credits on green mods from GTN anyways lol  ( if you really want mods before 80 , just buy them cheap from the NPC vendors on Fleet outer ring Supplies section )

Also, once are you are Level 80 , just mod this way-->  https://swtorista.com/articles/gearing-up-with-mods-guide-tips-swtor-7-1/   ...and it might cost you maybe 5mil total.

So yeah before worrying so much about the "economy" , be sure to read up on all the current/accurate intel about gearing,  so you won't waste credits ( nor time ) on things that aren't really an obstacle.

Edited by Nee-Elder
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9 hours ago, Master-Nala said:

I don’t know if the devs are monitoring this or not, but I just wanted to say that the current state of the economy is preventing me from returning to the game except to play alts at a low level.  
 

I recently logged into my first character who started on day one of SWTOR.  I’ve been gone a good while and I only have about 34 million credits on her. At level 75 I cannot even afford green mods on the GTN.  
 

Honestly, I’m sure there is some way to make enough to participate meaningfully in the economy, but I just decided to let my time run out and stay gone.  I do miss the game, but like a lot of MMOs once you’re gone it’s so hard to catch up.  I don’t have an answer for that. 

I don't know what you saw on GTN, but the only greens for lvl75 i could think being sold by players would be the crafted ones from 6.X. That is practically useless, and certainly not worth whatever they are charging for them.

I don't know what gear lvl you ended up with. But you have several choices to catch up without spending millions:

* Playing story from 6.X (From Onderon) and 7.X (From Manaan, se second time, not the FP) will provide base lvl 70-75 and 75+ each questline (along with lots of exp)

* Before reaching lvl 80, completing Conquest gives you Gear crates (up to 306 rating).

* If you are not playing story (from Onderon+) and feel the gear being given is to low for your level, continue to level in other activities where your low ratinbg will not matter and once you reach 80 just spend conquest coins on the conquest gear vendor.

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I'd really appreciate something that keeps people from buying something on the GTM and then immdiately re-listing it for a much higher price. Perhaps have purchased items temporarily bound to the buyer?

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2 hours ago, cZira said:

I'd really appreciate something that keeps people from buying something on the GTM and then immdiately re-listing it for a much higher price. Perhaps have purchased items temporarily bound to the buyer?

That’s how a free market works. If people are listing it too low or undercutting prices, then the answer is to buy what they put up & relist it. If the price is too high, they’ll never sell it. In the end it all works out. 

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On 5/6/2023 at 11:22 AM, KAFordwars said:

So, I'm just going to throw our my solution to FIX, permanently, the GTN Inflation issue.  It's actually very simple...

 

Every item in this game, and I do mean EVERY item to include everything on the Cartel Market, should be available to purchase IN-GAME, from a Vendor, with IN-GAME money.

The main part of this is that SWTOR need to raise their prices, A LOT. 

Example:

- You can buy a Black/Black Dye in game, from a vendor, for 200 Million Credits (just making up a number here)

- Now, any Black/Black Dyes on the GTN will have to stay BELOW that price, or you just buy it from the vendor.

So the game Vendors are, in essence, setting the cap for sales prices.  GTN sales will become about becoming competitive in selling prices.

___________________

"What about the Cartel Market, and all the money SWTOR makes from that?"

They don't have to give that up, they can still have a Cartel Market.  NEW items could be Cartel Market exclusive for a set amount of time (6 months), before moving to the game vendors.  So those that want to have these items First, or don't feel like waiting can still use Cartel Coins to get them.

Older items can remain both on the Cartel Market and the In-Game vendors/GTN, allowing players to continue to have the choice of currency.

___________________

"Yea Sure, but what about Credit Farmers?  People will just go buy Credits from wherever"!

If this happened, and people began rushing out to buy credits, the massive spike in demand, would result in a massive drop in supply, causing credit farming prices to increase and might actually make the option less viable due to the increased price...or it might not.  Who knows.

 

The most important part of this would be in SWTOR setting of vendor prices.  The in-game costs would need to be in line with the current Cartel Coin value, and they would need to greatly INFLATE the vendor costs to make it a good Last Resort, but not the best First Option.  You want people to buy from GTN, but vendor availability will ensure prices never get beyond reason.

To combat inflation the secret is to limit credit transactions to 1 billion from one player to another either via GTN or in person trades. It would cause credit farmers to price their sales more reasonable.

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