Please fix the quick travel prices

[SithLikeTraps]

I have a new character on another server, lvl 17 gunslinger at the moment, so a fresh start and not really rich. On Coruscant a taxi from senate plaza to jedi temple costs 50 credits. The quick travel for the same distance costs 5000 credits. What is the reason to make it cost 100 times more?

Update: just for the record, the credit reward from class/story quests at this level is 300-500 credits. I understand you want to remove the credits to lower the inflation but at the moment all you do is punish the newcomers, make it equal to the taxi prices or at least scale with the character level please.

Edited April 19, 2023 by SithLikeTraps

[Eckrond]

Well, if the time it takes you to run/mount/taxi from your location to the Senate Plaza is anything more than 100 seconds, then logic dictates that you're getting an absolute great deal by paying only 100x the price for instant travel.

But I understand your gripe and complaint, I have no skin in the game myself, by my opinion and perspective is that Quick Travel used to be a much less-useful ability as cooldowns used to be up to an hour, I think this change is fine because it's probably how it always should have been, and while the perspective that 'new players are being punished' may have some merit (even though I don't agree it's true), I don't think quick travel costs are driving anyone away from the game.  If they will ultimately serve as a miniscule part to combat inflation, and more relevantly simply make sense, then they are here to stay.

[HobbesToo]

Quick travel is certainly a nice feature, but not a necessity for travel. Think of it as 1st class travel. You can travel by car (low cost) to a destination 12 hours away, or you can pay a higher cost to get there faster by airplane.  

[SithLikeTraps]

Well if in the real world we'd have a train or a bus ticket from A to B for $100 and an airplane ticket for the same destination for $10k I'm sure that the airplane company would go bankrupt pretty quick. My point is that the quick travel should be comparable to the taxi, and if you add the cooldown unlock prices it's already going to be more expensive for quite some time. I don't actually have a problem with it on my main server, I have plenty of credits there, but it just doesn't make any sense that you need to do 10 quests to pay for one quick travel.

[VegaMist]

And it makes even less sense since travelling between planets is way more economic than using quick travel on a single planet.

[ronin_chi_lao]

I think dropping the costs on QT from Tython, Hutta, Korriban and Ord Mantel "all together" would work out the best.
When the crafting system gets another update add back the AMPLIFIER SYSTEM and remove gears with the static stats so more credits go back in.

Edited April 29, 2023 by ronin_chi_lao
Coruscant and Dromund Kaas are not starting worlds, duh

[Eckrond]

On 4/20/2023 at 12:36 PM, SithLikeTraps said:

Well if in the real world we'd have a train or a bus ticket from A to B for $100 and an airplane ticket for the same destination for $10k I'm sure that the airplane company would go bankrupt pretty quick. My point is that the quick travel should be comparable to the taxi, and if you add the cooldown unlock prices it's already going to be more expensive for quite some time. I don't actually have a problem with it on my main server, I have plenty of credits there, but it just doesn't make any sense that you need to do 10 quests to pay for one quick travel.

For your comparison to apropos, you'd be talking about a teleportation company, not an airline.  And while the common man certainly wouldn't pay $10k to go instantly anywhere in most cases, I guarantee you they would not be hurting for business.

Based on the times given, quick travel absolutely is comparable to the taxi in that respect, and again if it doesn't seem worth it to you... don't use it.

[SithLikeTraps]

29 minutes ago, Eckrond said:

For your comparison to apropos, you'd be talking about a teleportation company, not an airline. 

Except it wasn't my comparison to begin with . But you're missing the point I'm afraid: I'm not saying that "it's not worth using", I'm saying that the prices don't make sense. It's like they just used a random number generator or something. Several thousands on Coruscant which is an entry-level planet  and several hundreds on Mek-Sha which is near the end of the game. So on Coruscant you'd have to do 10 quests to pay for one quick travel and on Mek-Sha you'd do one quest to pay for like a hundred of them.

[Eckrond]

3 minutes ago, SithLikeTraps said:

Except it wasn't my comparison to begin with . But you're missing the point I'm afraid: I'm not saying that "it's not worth using", I'm saying that the prices don't make sense. It's like they just used a random number generator or something. Several thousands on Coruscant which is an entry-level planet  and several hundreds on Mek-Sha which is near the end of the game. So on Coruscant you'd have to do 10 quests to pay for one quick travel and on Mek-Sha you'd do one quest to pay for like a hundred of them.

If your problem is that quest rewards become more and of greater value to you, as a player, as you progress through the game then I think you miss the point of progression.

[Ardrossan]

2 hours ago, Eckrond said:

If your problem is that quest rewards become more and of greater value to you, as a player, as you progress through the game then I think you miss the point of progression.

The problem, as you ought to know without it needing to be explained, is that the tax is marketed as a credit sink but does nothing of the sort, because it costs more at early planets than it does for endgame planets. If it were truly progression, the cost of the taxi would be greater the higher level planet you go. 

But also progression is a non-sequitur in this game because of stuff like level sync and the disconnect between gaining levels and abilities, so your snarky comment really adds nothing at all to the discussion.

I looked at your other recent posts. Have you got anything to say that isn't bait?

Edited April 25, 2023 by Ardrossan

[Eckrond]

On 4/25/2023 at 8:03 AM, Ardrossan said:

The problem, as you ought to know without it needing to be explained, is that the tax is marketed as a credit sink but does nothing of the sort, because it costs more at early planets than it does for endgame planets. If it were truly progression, the cost of the taxi would be greater the higher level planet you go. 

But also progression is a non-sequitur in this game because of stuff like level sync and the disconnect between gaining levels and abilities, so your snarky comment really adds nothing at all to the discussion.

I looked at your other recent posts. Have you got anything to say that isn't bait?

Perhaps exercise the possibility in your mind that people simply disagree with your perspective, rather than that they are trolling or baiting.  Progression is not a non-sequitur in this context, amassing credits is a form of progression as you ought to know without it needing to be explained.  If your costs for standard services increase with your wealth, your wealth is not actually increasing is what I have pointed out and what you have failed to address.

And again, the context keeps getting lost here that you are talking about a luxury service, not one needed to actually play the game at all. Maybe lay off the comment stalking and ad hominems and just accept that, perhaps, you are not right about everything you believe.

[Ardrossan]

2 hours ago, Eckrond said:

Perhaps exercise the possibility in your mind that people simply disagree with your perspective, rather than that they are trolling or baiting.  Progression is not a non-sequitur in this context, amassing credits is a form of progression as you ought to know without it needing to be explained.  If your costs for standard services increase with your wealth, your wealth is not actually increasing is what I have pointed out and what you have failed to address.

And again, the context keeps getting lost here that you are talking about a luxury service, not one needed to actually play the game at all. Maybe lay off the comment stalking and ad hominems and just accept that, perhaps, you are not right about everything you believe.

It's not comment stalking, it's simply reading your posts in this thread--you're not posting in a void. Where is the ad hominem? Yes, your post was bait, and this post is also bait, you've written it to anger people. Like calling QT, a QoL ability we've had since launch, a "luxury service", in order to divert people into debating this and distracting them from the actual point of the thread. Nah, I'll pass. 

Let me direct you to the point at which you should have decided on your own to limit your involvement in this thread:

On 4/20/2023 at 8:29 AM, Eckrond said:

Well, if the time it takes you to run/mount/taxi from your location to the Senate Plaza is anything more than 100 seconds, then logic dictates that you're getting an absolute great deal by paying only 100x the price for instant travel.

But I understand your gripe and complaint, I have no skin in the game myself

You understand OP's complaint? You have no skin in the game? Great. So do those of us who DO care the courtesy and respect by stepping back from constantly centering your own perspective in a discussion that means nothing to you. 

Edited April 27, 2023 by Ardrossan
apropos is not a verb

[Eckrond]

20 minutes ago, Ardrossan said:

It's not comment stalking, it's simply reading your posts in this thread--you're not posting in a void. Where is the ad hominem? Yes, your post was bait, and this post is also bait, you've written it to anger people. Like calling QT, a QoL ability we've had since launch, a "luxury service", in order to divert people into debating this and distracting them from the actual point of the thread. Nah, I'll pass. 

Let me direct you to the point at which you should have decided on your own to limit your involvement in this thread:

There are an awful lot of devil's advocates online who actually don't care at all about the topic being discussed, but are instead only debating because they think it's entertaining to defend the other side, i.e the corporation that doesn't require yours or anyone else's defense of their actions. They also tend to be the same people who think dropping in words like "apropos" or terms like "the common man" will let people know how smart they are smh. You claim you understand OP's complaint...and then you keep right on defending the status quo anyway. You can respect those of us who DO care by stepping back from constantly centering your own perspective in a discussion that means nothing to you. 

And yet I have the freedom to express my perspective as I see fit.  It's a shame for you that offends you so much to here perspectives that contrast your own, even more shameful that you feel the need to express it in such an insulting manner while accusing others of baiting and trolling.  So here's where I'll leave it: nothing you have to say on this matter has been compelling in the slightest, you don't like that change and that is obvious.  Tough.

[Ardrossan]

1 hour ago, Eckrond said:

And yet I have the freedom to express my perspective as I see fit.  It's a shame for you that offends you so much to here perspectives that contrast your own, even more shameful that you feel the need to express it in such an insulting manner while accusing others of baiting and trolling.  So here's where I'll leave it: nothing you have to say on this matter has been compelling in the slightest, you don't like that change and that is obvious.  Tough.

Yes, you are a sub so you are entitled to post here, no denying that. My point is that if you understand why OP and others are upset by the change, as you say you do, and if you also acknowledge that you don't care about the change either way...then why do you continue to argue?

Oh wait.

Edited April 27, 2023 by Ardrossan

[SithLikeTraps]

Let me quote just his one piece:

5 hours ago, Eckrond said:

you are talking about a luxury service, not one needed to actually play the game at all.

Well, stop using the mounts/speeders and walk, after all you don't need them to play the game. Same goes with the taxi service for most of the locations. Forget about the heroics and daily areas transport, and if you want to travel to another planet go to the spaceport, then the space station, then to your ship, and then all that in reverse. I mean, you don't actually need all of that, right?

Apologies if it sounded too salty, but I agree with @Ardrossan : so far you sound like you're trying to bait. I'm not even sure what your counter-argument is, you keep changing it so I'm a bit lost.

[Eckrond]

12 hours ago, SithLikeTraps said:

Let me quote just his one piece:

Well, stop using the mounts/speeders and walk, after all you don't need them to play the game. Same goes with the taxi service for most of the locations. Forget about the heroics and daily areas transport, and if you want to travel to another planet go to the spaceport, then the space station, then to your ship, and then all that in reverse. I mean, you don't actually need all of that, right?

Apologies if it sounded too salty, but I agree with @Ardrossan : so far you sound like you're trying to bait. I'm not even sure what your counter-argument is, you keep changing it so I'm a bit lost.

That logic does not follow, I don't have a problem with the QT prices, if I did and mounts were expensive to use I might consider not doing so, in fact there was a time where all your skills cost credits and so I did often not keep my Mount Piloting rank up to current in favor of choosing combat abilities.

As for me "changing my argument", I don't understand why you think there needs to be one static perspective to this issue except, again, for the fact that it's clear you and others simply don't like it.  This isn't a black and white issue, it presents many interesting challenges for shaping the new player experience, and as I have said I think it should have been in place years ago.

And I don't think you sound too salty, I just don't agree with the logic you're using, though I appreciate that you don't live and die by what people think of your opinion on a game mechanic.  If the devs are compelled by these ideas, then fine, my input is simply that I'm not.

[Shayddow]

I find it infuriating that you are forced to use QT in a crunch.

I was trying to get certain quests done for conquest, and it was coming up on 8 AM EST. If I had failed to turn in the required quest, it would have reset and all my time would have been wasted. So I had to pay 3,000 plus credits to QT because there was only 3 minutes left and I never would have been able to manage that by taxis & speeders alone. So I hate the cost associated with this. 

 

[thoughtfix]

I wrote these feelings in the PTR thread on this topic, but it's beyond the PTR now so I'll share here:

As a returning player after a long absence (and one who hasn't played enough to get billions of credits) this feels like a broken way to fix the economy. I have a limited amount of time to play, and I want that playtime to be enjoying quests and plot, not dodging mobs from my speeder. I was stunned when I saw it cost 5,000 credits to go from one side of Nar Shadaa back to the Hutt who wanted my quest turn-in (that'd only earn me a few hundred credits).

The problems are multiple:

• This kind of fee doesn't take credits in an equitable way, which especially disadvantages new and returning players. If my character is in the second planet of Act 1, he's not going to have the resources that a character in Operations gear going through planets for dailies. If quick travel costs credits, It should be scaled on the character's progression.
• This fee doesn't take credits from the people who have the most, again disadvantaging new players or returning players. Top-level, long-term players are not leveling their way through planets or quick-traveling more than once or twice on daily quests. New players and returning players leveling through planets need quick travel a lot more than top-level players.
• Putting a barrier to quick travel pushes away new players and returning players. Let's face it: the 1-50 quests are what win over players and get them really into their character's mood, skills, identities, and relationships. They should be fun and well-paced. After catching the eco-terrorist who stole the Hutt's lunch, it's a drag to hop a speeder, dodge mobs (or get attacked every 100 feet or so) to a taxi, wait to fly across a map, and then dodge mobs (or get attacked) to get back to the Hutt. This is especially true if they spent credits or coins to unlock Legacy Travek 1/2/3, which I have.
• This measure is too small and poorly targeted. The top tier of the economy is what causes hyper-inflation and the ability for the ultra-rich to dominate the markets to serve only other wealthy players.

Credits must be removed from the wealthy players on a massive scale so that new and returning players don't have to buy credits with real money by purchasing cartel coin items to sell to the ultra-rich. This means credit sinks need to be large, non-permanent (for repeat business) and still appealing. Here are a few lore-friendly examples:

• Slicers for hire. Operations can have optional unique encounters that drop unique cosmetics, reputation, titles, flair, etc, but the players can only get to the unique encounter if they spend a huge pile of gold to hire a slicer to get them to open that door.
• Gladiator battles. Much like world bosses, groups of players can pay large sums of money to enter a contest to fight to entertain Hutts, Imperials, or other people who enjoy that kind of thing. Again, unique reputation, cosmetics, titles, and flair can be the reward.
• Stronghold staff: Mercenary bouncers, bartenders, dancers/entertainers, etc. can be hired at personal or guild strongholds to entertain guests for parties, or ongoing staff can be hired (cleaning droids and bodyguards?) for a repeat fee.
• Stronghold Maintenance: You don't think this thing runs for free, do you? The upper echelon of strongholds needs power, and maintenance and only the ultra-rich can afford these strongholds and pay their weekly fees.
• Mercenary warriors: Yes, you've reached level 80 and have ruled the galaxy. But you want to go back on your own time and re-do a certain operation or flashpoint (one without "story mode") to enjoy the plot and see what happens when you make different decisions. Instead of getting groups together for old content, you can pay a bunch to hire mercs who will make any flashpoint or operation a "story mode" experience.

In addition to those lore-friendly credit sinks, the hole in the GTN needs to be closed. Specifically, the GTN caps transactions at 1B credits, but some users are making transactions even higher and skirting the GTN cut. For that reason, the GTN's cap should be RAISED to accommodate any amount any character is willing to trade, but direct user-to-user transfers should be kept low. You want to be able to give your new player friend enough credits to buy their first couple unlocks and speeder. I think sending 1M credits per day per account is enough for direct user-to-user transactions, and anything higher should go through the GTN where they can get their cut.

 

Anyway - those are my thoughts.

[Ardrossan]

Those are some great credit sink ideas! Stronghold maintenance fees is a pretty good idea, again needs a progressive tax, maybe base it on legacy level and total unlocked rooms? That's something that shouldn't penalize new or low level characters if the LL is sufficiently high, and the credits can be taken directly out of legacy storage. 

Gladiator battles are also good, and they could reuse assets by doing it through the Eternal Championship on Zakuul--beef up the combat to master mode or something. 

I also like the modification to securetrade, but I can just picture the fury of some of the playerbase with that 1M low cap, I'm sure you'll see plenty here on the forum lol 

[thoughtfix]

24 minutes ago, Ardrossan said:

Those are some great credit sink ideas! Stronghold maintenance fees is a pretty good idea, again needs a progressive tax, maybe base it on legacy level and total unlocked rooms? That's something that shouldn't penalize new or low level characters if the LL is sufficiently high, and the credits can be taken directly out of legacy storage.

Thank you. Were I a game dev fixing an economy, I'd put a little effort into making a new stronghold (maybe a yacht?) that was specifically targeted for the billionaire class. That's the one that would have maintenance fees, it would scale based on how many rooms were unlocked and how much decoration was in it, and if maintenance isn't paid the caretaker locks out the player. As for the low trade amount: how many players have a good justifiable reason to send another player over a million credits if they aren't trading it for items? If it's a friend helping a friend, they can log in multiple times. If they want to trade it all at once, have them sell a piece of trash on the GTN to allow the GTN to take a cut. I don't have a lot of sympathy for the ultra-rich

[PallyHk]

This was a horribly bad implementation to try and fix the credit issue.

GTN and player trading needs to be capped. A good 10k per quick travel won't hurt the relisters at all.

This will cause new players to be inconvenienced and given more 'quit moments' as the quest rewards make this very useful ability too pricy for them.

The solution to a few players having 99% of the credits in game isn't to make everything more expensive for everyone. It will just not work. You won't bankrupt a millionare by making meals cost a thousand dollars, but you will make the regular folks angry.

I'm not a rich player, but even I could just mail my alt a million credits and this "fix" lost all its teeth, beside being an inconvenience for new players.

Stronholds, I'm not sure how well that would work, again, do we want to gatekeep housing? It would hurt returning players as well.

But there could be gold plated new decorations that cost a lot, so new decos as credit sink could work. Maybe even let players buy old event items for large price, like cosmetics that aren't in game anymore and can't be bought from the GTN.

There are 3 problems in the game. GTN inflation, Player to player trades inflating it even more, and relisting GTN items.

The last needs items to be bound for a good 24-48 hours.
GTN should be capped at a low price cap, as should personal trades. Maybe 100 million cap?
If you reach that cap in trading with another account, you must wait 24 hours.
That wouldn't disallow you from sending a new player a million to get your friend started.

 

Tl,dr the gtn and trading is what's broken, not the game's own credit sinks. Don't do anything that would punish new players instead, the game needs them desperately at this point.

Edited May 1, 2023 by PallyHk

[Vandicus]

Scaling with character level makes the most sense since credit rewards also scale with character level. 

[Nee-Elder]

5 hours ago, PallyHk said:

Tl,dr the GTN and Trading is what's broken,

And now they're getting around to hopefully fixing it a bit--> https://forums.swtor.com/topic/929143-73-credit-economy-initiative-updates-and-the-gtn/

[Kirkb_jr]

On 4/21/2023 at 4:36 AM, SithLikeTraps said:

Well if in the real world we'd have a train or a bus ticket from A to B for $100 and an airplane ticket for the same destination for $10k I'm sure that the airplane company would go bankrupt pretty quick. My point is that the quick travel should be comparable to the taxi, and if you add the cooldown unlock prices it's already going to be more expensive for quite some time. I don't actually have a problem with it on my main server, I have plenty of credits there, but it just doesn't make any sense that you need to do 10 quests to pay for one quick travel.

This isn't the real world and there hasn't had a cost associated with it until now. There was no reason to implement it this late in the game. Really bad move.