How PVP in its current state is driving away new potential players

[krackcommando]

14 minutes ago, Samcuu said:

Don't u find it interesting that when they tested the AWS server they did it as a pacific ocean server? They wanted us in NA and the EU to test the ping from servers that were not local clearly. But it doesn't really matter all that much I know ranked players that got top 3 in solos with a ping of like 200, so regardless you can play on a server that's far away from ur location and be competitive.  

I know I would not be able to tolerate a 200ms ping. I know others who live with it b/c they have to. it's like trying to hit an op desync'ing across the fire plate/ramp. don't get me wrong. if it magically works, I'd be very happy. I just don't think it will. 😁

Edited May 12, 2023 by krackcommando

[steveerkcanjerk]

1 hour ago, krackcommando said:

it's a core skill. it's not the end game. when you sign up to play a game, and then ignore the goals of that game just to do one core skill for that game, you are kinda being a jerk. but hey, that's your thing. fine. impersonal you, btw.

however, to then turn around and say that core aspect of the game is the actual game and the only game, and the win conditions of the game that you're playing are irrelevant is total BS. winning isn't a side game in the sport. it's the purpose of exercising the skills that you've honed.

if all you're interested in doing is tackling players, so you don't bother doing things like filling gaps or dropping into coverage, then your butt is sent straight to the bench, because again...the goal of the game isn't to tackle (even though it's arguably the most fundamental thing for defensiveman), it's to win the game, which involves you playing with your team and doing other things besides trying to be the guy with the tackle or qb sack.

this is so patently obvious, i don't know why I need to explain it. you literally sign-up to a WZ that has winners and losers. and winning or losing is predicated on certain things. choosing to ignore those things and then saying "they aren't pvp" is absolute horse poop. just say YOU (personal? impersonal?) don't want to do them and you won't do them and move on. don't try to redefine gravity to support your desire to join a pvp format and then not play that format.

and yes, insisting that anything outside of actually killing an opponent isn't pvp is infantile logic. I didn't call you stupid, btw. but your use of pvp to the exclusion of anything other than draining an opponent's HP away is childish. be offended or not. I'm rather offended that you (impersonal) would hold to that childish reduction of "pvp" and then use it as a basis to ruin the game. (granted, as I said above, there are things BW did to drive it to this state, such as making winning or losing WZs meaningless).

 

I think you are miss understanding what I am trying to say. I am not trying to advocate to ignore obj. I am saying the reason why player behavior is the way it is, because players join WZ to fight other players at its core. It is the main feature that ability to fight other players that seperates from literally the rest of the game. So yeah players that are good at spawn killing you or just farming for kills are gonna do it. They don't need a reward, they don't need a flair, or a queue. This behavior is in every game. There really isn't a solution for it. But if your team isn't good at killing people reaching the win condition does get harder. 99% of the time if those teams really wanted to meet the win condition they would when you see them all leave without capping it that is just their choice as a player. Idk how you can argue that being good at killing other players doesn't help you reach the win condition. If i kill all the player on a node we would most likely take the node. And even if that death squad is death matching and winning fights well there are only 8 people on the map maybe the remaining players should idk cap something? If their team is spending most of the match dead. But at the end of the day there isn't anything you can do about that player behavior. I am not saying that other parts liek capping nodes are not part of PvP, I am saying they are not the core reason people play PvP. I have never heard like said someone say "Man i really love the act of capturing a node on alderaan" or "God man did you see how awesome it was to watch me plant the bomb". No what people get hyped about "Bro watch me global this sorc" or "My mans lets double carb and delete this team." Those are things are important but those guys you see deathmatching thats what they are here for. They are here to fight other players, thats it. They want to show I can beat you at fighting you. Idk why that is such a controversial point. TBH idk what you can truly implement to change that behavior. I just kinda deal with it and move on, or join a group and change the course of the fight ourselves. But i also think the issue is well over blown. Alot of matches people just lose because well losing is part of the game. 

[TrixxieTriss]

11 hours ago, steveerkcanjerk said:

There is also I think alot of L2P issue that gets ignored

Sure, but a lot of that blame falls squarely on BioWare, of course, not all it, but a definitely a lot.

That poster that was whining here for a few weeks that we are all exploiting & cheating because we took the time to learn our abilities & map mechanics is a prime example of L2P.
Many people tried to help them with advice on how to get better & it was thrown back in our faces. The entitlement they displayed was astonishing.

But over the years, BioWare have systematically killed off the OG systems that allowed players to learn to play as they lvl’d up.

They dumbed down the pve part of the game so much that for many years, you could lvl up to max without ever needing to learn a DCD or more than 2-3 attack abilities. And while this has gotten better, it’s still quite poor at teaching players what their abilities do. 

Then they made lowbie PvP irrelevant & at the same time, constantly pushed / encouraged players to play the latest dev released content. That means that most new players push to max lvl before they ever step into PvP. 

Lowbies is where people should be learning map mechanics & abilities & how to counter other classes. People’s first pvp experience in swtor should not be max lvl pvp. 

BioWare need to do something to make lowbie relevant again. 

Edited May 13, 2023 by TrixxieTriss

[TrixxieTriss]

5 hours ago, Samcuu said:

Don't u find it interesting that when they tested the AWS server they did it as a pacific ocean server? They wanted us in NA and the EU to test the ping from servers that were not local clearly. But it doesn't really matter all that much I know ranked players that got top 3 in solos with a ping of like 200, so regardless you can play on a server that's far away from ur location and be competitive.  

As an APAC resident who usually plays with 220-230ms ping, I can say you are partly correct. 

If all things are equal in player skill & gear, the opponent will always have the advantage.

But as long as your opponent’s ping isn’t less than 80ms, you can be more competitive. Sadly, they will probably still have the first activation advantage in any fight. If it’s lower than 80ms then you can really see & feel the difference.

And if they have friends & their all their pings are below 80ms, sometimes it’s game over before you can even get off a DCD to activate properly. Ie, in arena on a Sorc, I would get jumped & by multiple people & often die during the middle of my bubble. Sometimes they would ask me why I didn’t bubble because they didn’t even see it.

You also have to play a bit different when you have high ping. Lots of the time you have to guess what the opponent is going to do. You can’t wait and just respond to them. Sadly, sometimes this means you guess wrong & you waste a crit or DCD ability that a lower ping player wouldn’t have.

On Harbinger I belonged to a PvP guild with really nice & helpful members. We used to practice on the guild ship between matches. They helped me develop tactics against better players that all had low ping. My unorthodox tactics in certain situations allowed me to win more because people weren’t used to someone using them. But once they learnt my tactics, I was easier to beat. So I had to constantly evolve them.

To sum up, yes you can be competitive with high ping, but your reflexes, skills & guess work needs to be much higher to win against people who would usually be at equal skill & have low ping. Those players who were top 3 with 200ms+ ping would probably have been number 1 if they’d had lower ping. 

Edited May 13, 2023 by TrixxieTriss

[steveerkcanjerk]

33 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

Sure, but a lot of that blame falls squarely on BioWare, of course, not all it, but a definitely a lot.

That poster that was whining here for a few weeks that we are all exploiting & cheating because we took the time to learn our abilities & map mechanics is a prime example of L2P.
Many people tried to help them with advice on how to get better & it was thrown back in our faces. The entitlement they displayed was astonishing.

But over the years, BioWare have systematically killed off the OG systems that allowed players to learn to play as they lvl’d up.

They dumbed down the pve part of the game so much that for many years, you could lvl up to max without ever needing to learn a DCD or more than 2-3 attack abilities. And while this has gotten better, it’s still quite poor at teaching players what their abilities do. 

Then they made lowbie PvP irrelevant & at the same time, constantly pushed / encouraged players to play the latest dev released content. That means that most new players push to max lvl before they ever step into PvP. 

Lowbies is where people should be learning map mechanics & abilities & how to counter other classes. People’s first pvp experience in swtor should not be max lvl pvp. 

BioWare need to do something to make lowbie relevant again. 

I would say yes and no to this. I do think the game can be a bit more challenging but that isn't going to happen for any mmo. Like they have all gotten easier at least swtor makes you level unlike ESO which brings everything down to you. But honestly that wouldn't really do much in pvp. For PvE yeah i think it would do wonders but PvP you have to learn all the class interactions, comp interactions, priority system of not just yours but everyone elses class. And games don't give someone the mindset of oh I want to get better. That really comes from the player, there are plenty of resources available to learn. I do think there is an answer out there for the learning issue but tbh I have yet to really see a game do it well. But SWTOR from a rotation and class perspective is not all that complicated. But I have never met a player in any game who was like "yeah i got good just by playing" to really get good at a game you gotta visit 3rd party for any game. 

I get the sentiment but usually someone who wants to get good puts the effort in. And if you dont well you wont. At this point I have just accepted that its just how gaming it is. And until something comes around and actually revolutionizes getting casual players into that mindset i am just gonna enjoy it for what it is. If someone logs in everyday and PvP's but doesnt get better and is still enjoying themselves all power to them its part of being in a social environment. 

But to kinda pull it back to the OP post about new players being pushed away. At this point if SWTOR is too complicated of an MMO to get into or inaccessible as a new player then that goes for literally every MMO. 

1. WoW - You need an array of addons just to get all the right info, you then need to learn all the classes in's and out's with 0 tutorial help with your trait tree or skill priority. You also need to learn the details of every stun rotation since DR is a big part of that game. (this is probably one of the hardest pvp games to get into with all the addons and player skill gap). 
2. ESO - You have make a build. Thats really hard for a new player and not only that you have to understand how to make the build or go to a 3rd party site to find one. You need to farm for all the right set bonus items and understand how it all comes together. The game literally teaches you almost nothing and since you can basically build for any role in any direction this gets very complicated. Unlike other games as well you will literally do no dmg to players with a bad build and then they will turn and 2 shot you. 
3. GW2 - Action based/tab game but also has alot of build diversity. You literally can hop in at max level pvp at level 10 since gear doesn't matter but that is alot to take in and has alot of complexity to it. 
4. New World - Once again an MMO that you will get 1 tapped if you don't build right or do 0 dmg if you build wrong. Have to grind up a water mark and literally can get locked out of WAR pvp if you don't know the right people. 

I could go on but what I am trying to say is that MMO's are generally complicated games to get into and especially legacy games that have been around for a long time. Should through destiny 2 up there, have you seen how complicated that game has gotten Guns + Armor + Mods + Aspects + Fragments + Ability choices + Exotic Choice + Stat Prio like jesus. But its kinda part of being an older game. None of these games teach a new player how to excel at the end-game. So to hold SWTOR to this standard of find a way is baffling. When getting into a new MMO PvP system getting your butt kicked is part of the process. Even in all those games a new player gets stomped by lack of knowledge, premades, etc. 


Can bioware add new tutorial systems and such sure. Is it going to raise the skill level of players...probably not. The will to get better comes from the player. All of these games are very easy to learn if the you put effort in. But if someone is willing to look stuff up for those games they can for SWTOR as well. 

[TrixxieTriss]

2 hours ago, steveerkcanjerk said:

But if someone is willing to look stuff up for those games they can for SWTOR as well. 

The thing is, I don’t think they are willing to do it for any game. At least that’s the impression I got from the poster I was referring to. I don’t know how old they are, but the self entitlement they exhibited reminded me of a teenager.

Maybe I’m just getting old, but it seems to me that more & more players think everything should be super easy & they should have instant wins without doing the hard work or learning anything.

[krackcommando]

15 hours ago, steveerkcanjerk said:

There really isn't a solution for it.

I know this and said as much. hence my lament that players who actually want to play the game as intended/designed (i.e., "win" or "lose" according to the criteria of the map) cannot simply leave when they see an overwhelming number of teammates or enemies ignoring the win conditions of the map.

and I have to say this in closing (because we've covered the issue to death), I realize the best players have never (outside of ranked) sat there guarding objectives (although they did work to advance the HB more often than not). the reason I (personal) left the game in 6.x was because I was no longer playing rated arenas (the effort and concentration was just more than I was willing to put into it anymore), all that was left was "regs." and by regs, I mean reg WZs because reg arenas very rarely popped and only when the queue was on life support.

that wouldn't have bothered me, except 9 of 10 WZs were populated by players (grp and solo) either willfully ignoring the win conditions of the map or being so hopelessly incompetent (like 3 ppl guarding a node during conquest week) that there was no point in playing. literally 1 OP could lolroll the Pit b/c nobody was interested or capable of stopping him. at that point, there was no reason to queue. So I left.

I'm not relaying my sob story simply to share a sob story. I'm saying it because while the really good players would never sit around guarding a node, they would respond to calls. they would start CW by going to the off node and screw with 2-3 bots until they got bored, killed them and capped the node, or were finally killed. Now, not only do entire groups of the better players not do this, they will port into CW and spend the whole match DMing (usually with another skilled grp) on the side where they are of absolutely no use to either team.

PvP Seasons hasn't changed this. Reworking the way medals work hasn't changed this. As you say, they don't care about winning or losing. They're just there to do their own DM or pop heads off of bots. And I'd have left after my first month's sub expired if I had to deal with that for my daily PVP long ago. But thankfully there's a separate arena queue in which straight DM is the objective, and at least there, the vast majority of players are trying to win. aside from legit complaints about skill disparity, role matching, and lack of high-end content, at least the ppl in arenas are largely trying to win. for whatever that's worth. but WZs are a hot mess.

you cannot choose your map. you cannot force teammates/opponents to play to win. and you cannot leave. it's like the holy trinity of bleep you for trying to play the game as designed.

edit:

15 hours ago, steveerkcanjerk said:

Idk how you can argue that being good at killing other players doesn't help you reach the win condition.

I don't know how you got that out of any thing I've said. I took issue with you referring to objective maps as "not pvp" when it clearly is despite not being 100% DM. PVP is not synonymous wit DM. capping and guarding is 100% pvp. ofc players who kill better are in a better position to win and should win. the frustration is that they don't, which drags out the match and often causes their team to lose, and their teammates are helpless to do anything, not simply because they aren't as good (at killing), but because half their team isn't trying to win. also, capping behind such groups and "winning" is a hollow victory. you don't actually win anything. you just waste your time capping nodes behind death squads that have no interest in playing the actual game that they queued into.

Edited May 13, 2023 by krackcommando

[krackcommando]

36 minutes ago, Wulfurkin said:

Thankfully ive figured out since then that this game is pretty easy to cheese in pvp if you play certain meta classes. Its boring but makes the season less of a headache. Vengeance/Vigilance, Ruffian/Lethality, Hatred/Serenity.

you still have to be able to actually play meta specs in order to win. if you don't play lethality, then just (literally) rolling lethality isn't going to be an "I win" button for you. I assure you, my trashcan arsenal merc will destroy you if you don't know when and where to use your abilities.

madness sorc...eh. I dunno. that might be an "I win" button. I never liked playing any sorc spec. but that said, sorcs are one of the easiest classes in the game to focus down...if your team has a net or two. so again, you really have to be good at the spec. you cannot just pick it up and press the "I win" button.

juggs? ok. I will grant you that. every single jugg spec is really easy to play. and they're played with almost a pve rotation. everything is an instant. yeah. they are dumb. they're skill capped pretty easily compared to the other two on your list. 😄

[omeru]

Sadly it is not only driving away new players driving away seasoned pvpers too and they think only problem is medals as always they will ignore this and things get worse and eventually they will try to do salvage it but again they will do it even worse.

[Bigfallenstar]

20 hours ago, Wulfurkin said:

Thing is i dont need to go up against your epeening arsenal merc to get my medals and finish the season or to get some dailies and weeklies done. I honestly dont care to try either for reasons ive said in my previous posts. Im just happy these meta specs exists so i can dip my toes into the mess that is pvp and get things done without really putting in the effort. The basic rotations took 15 minutes of google and 15 more minutes of button mashing on my spaceship dummy. Arenas are so quick that winning or losing barely impacts the time before a daily is finished and warzones you can sit on a node for most of the match and still get the medals and maximum valor regardless of being on the winning or losing team. I feel stupid i ever came here thinking there is skill needed and that ive bothered to put in the effort i did.

Calls someone epeening for using arsenal merc, proceeds to use other meta classes to cheese through pvp and puts the least amount of effort in to win just to say you're doing something. All because you can't get a supposedly fair game of pvp. I think we all know who really has the epeen... If you aren't even going to try, why even q to begin with?

[TrixxieTriss]

9 hours ago, Bigfallenstar said:

Calls someone epeening for using arsenal merc, proceeds to use other meta classes to cheese through pvp and puts the least amount of effort in to win just to say you're doing something. All because you can't get a supposedly fair game of pvp. I think we all know who really has the epeen... If you aren't even going to try, why even q to begin with?

Yeah, their self entitlement is strong

[krackcommando]

11 hours ago, Bigfallenstar said:

Calls someone epeening for using arsenal merc, proceeds to use other meta classes to cheese through pvp and puts the least amount of effort in to win just to say you're doing something. All because you can't get a supposedly fair game of pvp. I think we all know who really has the epeen... If you aren't even going to try, why even q to begin with?

I wasn't going to point this out, but I need to up my post count before a new day starts so I can win the day (srsly, I just realized you can "win" the day on the forum! 😄)

...

where was i?

ah. right. dude talks about meta specs to he can do nothing and lose his way to dailies/weeklies. which utterly defeats the point of meta specs. you can lose your way to dailies and weeklies by sitting in the corner and waiting for the enemy to kill you (or ignore you). not sure what the meta spec and google tutorial was for.

[Sappharan]

On 5/13/2023 at 11:40 AM, Wulfurkin said:

Im a guy in his 20's but its nice to see i got to you so much Trixie, i also stand by the things i said. Thankfully ive figured out since then that this game is pretty easy to cheese in pvp if you play certain meta classes. Its boring but makes the season less of a headache. Vengeance/Vigilance, Ruffian/Lethality, Hatred/Serenity. Its still not making me stick around though, between the seasons pvp is at best this cheesy and broken little mini game you play when you take a break from operations.

In, what, fewer than 50 posts you have managed to garner negative opinions from much of the PvPers in this space?  Not bad, but you could have done better.  Start a new account and begin posting with something like the following:

On 5/13/2023 at 4:48 PM, Wulfurkin said:

Thing is i dont need to go up against your epeening arsenal merc to get my medals and finish the season or to get some dailies and weeklies done. I honestly dont care to try either for reasons ive said in my previous posts. Im just happy these meta specs exists so i can dip my toes into the mess that is pvp and get things done without really putting in the effort. The basic rotations took 15 minutes of google and 15 more minutes of button mashing on my spaceship dummy. Arenas are so quick that winning or losing barely impacts the time before a daily is finished and warzones you can sit on a node for most of the match and still get the medals and maximum valor regardless of being on the winning or losing team. I feel stupid i ever came here thinking there is skill needed and that ive bothered to put in the effort i did.

Why waste all that time asking for opinions and advice when you were going to get here anyway?  You could have done it in one post.  Of course, watching your spiral is entertaining too.  So, I guess the way you did it provided a bit more entertainment.  The schtick is wearing thin, though. 

[Shwarzchild]

On 5/13/2023 at 4:48 PM, Wulfurkin said:

Thing is i dont need to go up against your epeening arsenal merc to get my medals and finish the season or to get some dailies and weeklies done. I honestly dont care to try either for reasons ive said in my previous posts. Im just happy these meta specs exists so i can dip my toes into the mess that is pvp and get things done without really putting in the effort. The basic rotations took 15 minutes of google and 15 more minutes of button mashing on my spaceship dummy. Arenas are so quick that winning or losing barely impacts the time before a daily is finished and warzones you can sit on a node for most of the match and still get the medals and maximum valor regardless of being on the winning or losing team. I feel stupid i ever came here thinking there is skill needed and that ive bothered to put in the effort i did.

In your effort to demean others you actually did what the community has been asking new pvp players to do: do some parsing and do some research.  We've said it makes a difference.  For you it sounds like it did.  

[TrixxieTriss]

8 hours ago, Wulfurkin said:

Q to get the season done and finish some dailies and weeklies for mats, i thought i was rather clear on that. Dont see why i should play fair or make it about competition when nobody else does.

So you become part of the problem you’ve been QQing about instead of improving it 🤷🏻‍♀️

[SOULCASTER]

(Just returning to the game after a year+ off)

Have they still not prevented movement enhancing abilities while carrying the huttball?
You can still leap, and roll and hold-the-line (etc) with while carrying the ball?  I mean that
is something they should easily fix.

As far as fighting 'premades' in 4v4 areanas.... well, if you played ranked seasons 1-6 you'd
know that is all the ''solo'' queue arenas were. You and 3 randoms fighting the 4 super-queue
group on the opposite faction that queue synched. lol

The only fix i think they could have for fighitng pre-mades in arenas would be to have the 
winner and the loser rewards be the same. Do i think losers should get whatever winners get, 
fundamentally speaking? No. However, this is not a serious e-sport, and is a very casual game
and niche gametype for most swtor players. So I think equalling the rewards would probably
help offset the bitterness of getting stomped by premades.

Edited May 16, 2023 by SOULCASTER

[krackcommando]

2 hours ago, SOULCASTER said:

As far as fighting 'premades' in 4v4 areanas.... well, if you played ranked seasons 1-6 you'd
know that is all the ''solo'' queue arenas were. You and 3 randoms fighting the 4 super-queue
group on the opposite faction that queue synched. lol

welcome back. I see you're on SF. count on your hand the number of times you face a 4m premade in the arena queue. I've seen 2 in 3+ months in the queue with well over 600 matches played. 4m premades stomping ppl in arenas is a mythical beast.

you will find a few 2m grps and the very occasional 3m. if you do 10-15 matches per night, you will probably see a 3m grp over the course of 3 nights. you will see a 2m grp once or twice per night. premades are not bullying the arena queue on SF. the MM is as bonkers as it has every been though, and I often see pug tank and heal on one team while the other has just one or none of the support roles. it happens b/c of the small player pool and players not taking pops. more problematic is one teaming having the two players with sub 330 gear on. or 4 nets...or 4 juggs...or 3 maddness sorcs...etc. just typical bad matchmaking.

[SOULCASTER]

5 minutes ago, krackcommando said:

welcome back. I see you're on SF. count on your hand the number of times you face a 4m premade in the arena queue. I've seen 2 in 3+ months in the queue with well over 600 matches played. 4m premades stomping ppl in arenas is a mythical beast.

you will find a few 2m grps and the very occasional 3m. if you do 10-15 matches per night, you will probably see a 3m grp over the course of 3 nights. you will see a 2m grp once or twice per night. premades are not bullying the arena queue on SF. the MM is as bonkers as it has every been though, and I often see pug tank and heal on one team while the other has just one or none of the support roles. it happens b/c of the small player pool and players not taking pops. more problematic is one teaming having the two players with sub 330 gear on. or 4 nets...or 4 juggs...or 3 maddness sorcs...etc. just typical bad matchmaking.

well that's good news then. Sounds like they just need to work on a matchmaking fix. Which i see a lot of threads on here about.

[septru]

9 hours ago, SOULCASTER said:

Sounds like they just need to work on a matchmaking fix. Which i see a lot of threads on here about.

Don't be mislead. Those threads were created by people that have admitted they don't actually PvP and don't know the current state of the game.

[TrixxieTriss]

54 minutes ago, septru said:

Don't be mislead. Those threads were created by people that have admitted they don't actually PvP and don't know the current state of the game.

So you think match making is perfect in the current state? 

[Headstylez]

Matchmaking is about as fine as it can be.  Every and now and then you’ll get a lopsided match either due to roles, premade, or skill level—and while those are easier to remember since they are annoying—most matches are pretty normal.  

Not that it really matters now anyway.  Win some or lose more, collect the same prize.

Edited May 17, 2023 by Headstylez

[septru]

11 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

So you think match making is perfect in the current state? 

I think any matchmaking issues (which like @Headstylez mentioned are fairly irregular) are overshadowed by more prevalent issues like the lack of any meaningful incentives for competition or actual skill. 

 

if I'm not having any fun in PvP, 95% of the time it's because no one on the other team has the slightest clue how to fight back and I feel like I'm PvE parsing. Maybe 5% of games are ruined as a result of poor matchmaking or I'm against a premade. 

[krackcommando]

16 minutes ago, septru said:

no one on the other team has the slightest clue how to fight back

I must say, peeling feels like a foreign language since I last played rated. honestly. if 2-3 stealth open on my teammate, it's the least I can do to punt them or carb them or sorc pull him.

Edited May 17, 2023 by krackcommando

[AwesomeTacoCat]

2 hours ago, septru said:

I think any matchmaking issues (which like @Headstylez mentioned are fairly irregular) are overshadowed by more prevalent issues like the lack of any meaningful incentives for competition or actual skill. 

 

if I'm not having any fun in PvP, 95% of the time it's because no one on the other team has the slightest clue how to fight back and I feel like I'm PvE parsing. Maybe 5% of games are ruined as a result of poor matchmaking or I'm against a premade. 

I’d say 10-20% of arena matches are ruined by premades and probably another 25% are ruined by awful matchmaking such that the match outcome is blatantly obvious before it starts because the teams/roles are so unbalanced. 
 

Warzone matches are a complete sh*tshow on the other hand. I have no idea how any sort of matchmaking works here but seemingly every match is either one side kill farming and ignoring objects or one team completely steamrolling the other because they’ve put 6 bots with 2 decent players against 8 decent players. 
 

 

[septru]

35 minutes ago, AwesomeTacoCat said:

Warzone matches are a complete sh*tshow on the other hand. I have no idea how any sort of matchmaking works here but seemingly every match is either one side kill farming and ignoring objects or one team completely steamrolling the other because they’ve put 6 bots with 2 decent players against 8 decent players. 

This actually seems so much better than SF. On SF it's usually just 8 bots v 8 bots. Maybe I should transfer SS.