1. There is nothing wrong with the economy; 2. To change it you must control the exchange rate

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

7 hours ago, FlatTax said:

Also, Tech Frags and Conquest Comms are for direct sale via Galactic Seasons, as are Legendary Ebers and Iokath Recombinators.

All of which can be obtained totally for free through game play by completing Galactic Season objectives.

Additionally you can earn all them even through content that has nothing to do with Galactic Seasons. Legendary Embers can also be obtained through crew skill gathering missions at 11 grade with in game credits (the credits for the cost of running those missions).

Quite honestly, I'm not sure if Iokath recombinators can be obtained through crew skill gathering missions as I'm only familiar with Bioanalysis and Diplomacy gathering skills, so I can't really speak to that with any first hand knowledge. I'm sure that StevetheCynic could answer that.

Regardless, you can get all of them totally for free in game.

Edited April 16, 2023 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[StrikePrice]

19 minutes ago, WayOfTheWarriorx said:

All of which can be obtained totally for free through game play by completing Galactic Season objectives.

Regardless, you can get all of them totally for free in game.

Exactly. Plus, at the beginning of the season, buying out the season is like $100 USD. And what do you get? Like 1500 frags or something? If someone wants to pay USD 100 for something I can get in 30 mins in a KP SM run, that's fine by me. 

[Balameb]

I think you are feeding too much the troll.

[StrikePrice]

35 minutes ago, Balameb said:

I think you are feeding too much the troll.

I'm not trolling. I have not seen any substantive arguments indicating that there is anything wrong with the economy. Anyone can play the game and get anything they need. And, you either need to earn in game money or pay real money to get premium cosmetics. 

Economy whiners and catastrophists are simply lazy and entitled. 

[Traceguy]

26 minutes ago, StrikePrice said:

Economy whiners and catastrophists are simply lazy and entitled. 

100% This. You can't beg Bioware to take money away from the "rich", and not be one of these. I can make over 1 billion credits a week through Crew Skills and Conquests. There's no excuse for the complainers. This is a video game, everyone has the same opportunity.

 

[Stradlin]

57 minutes ago, StrikePrice said:

I'm not trolling. I have not seen any substantive arguments indicating that there is anything wrong with the economy. Anyone can play the game and get anything they need. And, you either need to earn in game money or pay real money to get premium cosmetics. 

Economy whiners and catastrophists are simply lazy and entitled. 

Inflation has reached a stage where basic trade-related  game  mechanics aren't able to cope with it.  Main hub for player to player trade hasn't been able to support high end trades in a year or so. Sole tradeable in- game currency is turning more and more irrelevant. In game money just doesn't work anymore. Trades that used to happen do not. Inflation has taken economy to places where game itself can't support it anymore.

[Balameb]

1 hour ago, StrikePrice said:

I'm not trolling. I have not seen any substantive arguments indicating that there is anything wrong with the economy. Anyone can play the game and get anything they need. And, you either need to earn in game money or pay real money to get premium cosmetics. 

Economy whiners and catastrophists are simply lazy and entitled. 

I did not say you were trolling. I did not quoted you. I said that there are people feeding a certain troll on the p2w subject.

 

But since you so kindly are again with the 'nothing is wrong'. I have to remind you that one of the premises for your statements was that there is no inflation. I not only pointed you on how poor is your view of what inflation is/isn't, you were even wrong in your narrow view. Ergo, your 'there is no problem' lost substance. Not that it had that much substance to begin with if you put side by side an idea to control exchange rate (Exchange rate IS part of any economy)

Edited April 17, 2023 by Balameb

[StrikePrice]

2 minutes ago, Stradlin said:

Inflation has reached a stage where basic trade-related  game  mechanics aren't able to cope with it.  Main hub for player to player trade hasn't been able to support high end trades in a year or so. Sole tradeable in- game currency is turning more and more irrelevant. In game money just doesn't work anymore. Trades that used to happen do not. Inflation has taken economy to places where game itself can't support it anymore.

See? You say all kinds of stuff. But, you don't give any examples. It's all "the game used to be like this and like that". Yeah, I used to run around hoth for hours to earn a Tauntaun instead of spending 1.5m. There's an achievement "exorbitantly wealthy" that's 10m credits. But so what? 

You give nothing substantive. There's nothing you can't afford simply by playing the game. And not one person in this thread has given any counter-example. 

[StrikePrice]

33 minutes ago, Traceguy said:

100% This. You can't beg Bioware to take money away from the "rich", and not be one of these. I can make over 1 billion credits a week through Crew Skills and Conquests. There's no excuse for the complainers. This is a video game, everyone has the same opportunity.

 

Facts. There's nothing you can't earn simply by playing the game.

You want to be a billionaire? Run KP and buy RPM/OEM with frags and sell them on the GTN. Should take you about 1 week to go from 0 to 1bn. 

[FlatTax]

3 minutes ago, Balameb said:

I said that there are people feeding a certain troll on the p2w subject.

I encourage you to engage with ideas instead of ad hominems.

[Traceguy]

1 minute ago, StrikePrice said:

You want to be a billionaire? Run KP 

And I'm on the sparsely populated Satele Shan server. I barely even run ops to make my credits. There's plenty of credit making opportunity in solo things, like Conquests and Crew Skills.

 

[StrikePrice]

6 minutes ago, Traceguy said:

And I'm on the sparsely populated Satele Shan server. I barely even run ops to make my credits. There's plenty of credit making opportunity in solo things, like Conquests and Crew Skills.

 

Exactly. What other MMO can you jump into and get the best gear, best cosmetics, best mounts, without putting in any work? SWTOR is extremely solo friendly. You can get gear appropriate to the content you want to run very easily. 

Do I complain I can't get wings of the architect? No. I don't have the skill. That's that. No complaints. Good for anyone who earns it. It's an MMO. Earn things. 

[Stradlin]

1 hour ago, StrikePrice said:

See? You say all kinds of stuff. But, you don't give any examples. It's all "the game used to be like this and like that". Yeah, I used to run around hoth for hours to earn a Tauntaun instead of spending 1.5m. There's an achievement "exorbitantly wealthy" that's 10m credits. But so what? 

You give nothing substantive. There's nothing you can't afford simply by playing the game. And not one person in this thread has given any counter-example. 

Examples of issues  everybody dealing with TOR economy encounters every day? Well, ok.

 

High end plat tier items are not available from GTN anymore. Therefore, it is much more uncommon  and complicated  for players to acquire these things  for in-game credits. Since high end trade has moved away from GTN, no top tier item generates sales tax anymore, which does its part in worsening the inflation ever  further.

I got [Glowstick of Tython] from cartel pack. I don't want it. I want [Pewpiece of Corellia] instead. Both are roughly of equal value. Turning my Glowsitck into Pewpiece via GTN used to be a simple and safe matter. I'd list my Glowstick for a decent price and once it sells, begin stalk for a listing of Pewpiece for a decent price. Pretgty simple. Having to do all of this outside of GTN is unlikely, uncertain and at best time consuming. Finding right people with right items in trade chat is endlessly dififcult when compared to finding their GTN listings. GTN not being viable makes [Random plat item that is in high demand  but you don't want it] seem less interesting and useful to players than they used to be. This in turn makes buying cartel packs or hypercrates for real life money seem less interesting -  people feel they can do less with things they get out of it.There ar eless viable options. So that 30 dollar costing crate gives you less options, less value, less bang for the buck than it used to back when GTN was viable. This is a bad thing even for EA, not just players."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 17, 2023 by Stradlin

[StrikePrice]

1 hour ago, Stradlin said:

Examples of issues  everybody dealing with TOR economy encounters every day? Well, ok.

 

High end plat tier items are not available from GTN anymore. Therefore, it is much more uncommon  and complicated  for players to acquire these things  for in-game credits. Since high end trade has moved away from GTN, no top tier item generates sales tax anymore, which does its part in worsening the inflation ever  further.

I got [Glowstick of Tython] from cartel pack. I don't want it. I want [Pewpiece of Corellia] instead. Both are roughly of equal value. Turning my Glowsitck into Pewpiece via GTN used to be a simple and safe matter. I'd list my Glowstick for a decent price and once it sells, begin stalk for a listing of Pewpiece for a decent price. Pretgty simple. Having to do all of this outside of GTN is unlikely, uncertain and at best time consuming. Finding right people with right items in trade chat is endlessly dififcult when compared to finding their GTN listings. GTN not being viable makes [Random plat item that is in high demand  but you don't want it] seem less interesting and useful to players than they used to be. This in turn makes buying cartel packs or hypercrates for real life money seem less interesting -  people feel they can do less with things they get out of it.There ar eless viable options. So that 30 dollar costing crate gives you less options, less value, less bang for the buck than it used to back when GTN was viable. This is a bad thing even for EA, not just players."

This is a 100% technical issue. I agree, the limit on the GTN should be raised.

Your argument has nothing to do with the economy. If two items are of similar or the same value, you can get one for the other. The presence of items on the GTN is sometimes spotty at best. There have been many times I have had to wait long periods of time checking the GTN for things I want. Nothing has changed. Yes, you have to look for a player to buy what you have and one selling what you want. But that's no different than before.

[Ardrossan]

4 hours ago, StrikePrice said:

I'm not trolling. I have not seen any substantive arguments indicating that there is anything wrong with the economy. Anyone can play the game and get anything they need. And, you either need to earn in game money or pay real money to get premium cosmetics. 

Economy whiners and catastrophists are simply lazy and entitled. 

I mean, it's a troll thread and you're the OP so by definition you are trolling. Like many trolls you have the "I'm so rational" thing while calling out people for not having "evidence" when everyone has exactly the same information, you are not any more rational than anyone you're talking to, or have better arguments or whatever. You simply disagree with other people and they disagree with you, but you apparently can't accept that your opinions are just that and not objectively correct, so you have to dress it up as right vs wrong. And for all your blathering about "substantive" arguments, like any troll your immediate go-to is ad hominem attacks on people you disagree with, "lazy and entitled", "don't know how to play the game" on and on...it's high boomer energy, exactly the same style and manner of many previous forum trolls. 

I am sick of children on this forum who got it into their heads that this is some kind of debate forum for them to sharpen their rhetoric. Go on facebook if you wanna do that. This forum is for people giving their feedback about the game and it does not matter whether you agree with it or not, they have the same right to share their opinions that you do without needing to 'prove' it for your damn satisfaction, it's not about YOU. 

[StrikePrice]

28 minutes ago, Ardrossan said:

I mean, it's a troll thread and you're the OP so by definition you are trolling. Like many trolls you have the "I'm so rational" thing while calling out people for not having "evidence" when everyone has exactly the same information, you are not any more rational than anyone you're talking to, or have better arguments or whatever. You simply disagree with other people and they disagree with you, but you apparently can't accept that your opinions are just that and not objectively correct, so you have to dress it up as right vs wrong. And for all your blathering about "substantive" arguments, like any troll your immediate go-to is ad hominem attacks on people you disagree with, "lazy and entitled", "don't know how to play the game" on and on...it's high boomer energy, exactly the same style and manner of many previous forum trolls. 

I am sick of children on this forum who got it into their heads that this is some kind of debate forum for them to sharpen their rhetoric. Go on facebook if you wanna do that. This forum is for people giving their feedback about the game and it does not matter whether you agree with it or not, they have the same right to share their opinions that you do without needing to 'prove' it for your damn satisfaction, it's not about YOU. 

It's not a troll thread. You just can't handle that you don't even understand the thing you have heard other people say that you are parroting. Parrot parrot parrot. Zero understanding.

The economy is fine. I stand unrefuted.

[Ardrossan]

30 minutes ago, StrikePrice said:

It's not a troll thread. You just can't handle that you don't even understand the thing you have heard other people say that you are parroting. Parrot parrot parrot. Zero understanding.

The economy is fine. I stand unrefuted.

That is literally the expected response from a troll. Like others preaching the same line, you think this is a contest with a winner and losers and you 'win' because you 'stand unrefuted'...by ignoring everything that you disagree with. 

The solution to trolls is not to give them any more attention, any more of the validation they desperately seek. I don't care if you disagree with me about the economy because it's not about you, no matter how much you insist on trying to make it about you. You don't make any decisions, so what do I care whether you agree or not?

I encourage people not to give this guy or this thread any more attention. What is there to be gained arguing with trolls and white knights? They aren't stand-ins for bioware, they're just wannabes with nothing better to do.

 

Edited April 17, 2023 by Ardrossan

[StrikePrice]

2 hours ago, Ardrossan said:

That is literally the expected response from a troll. Like others preaching the same line, you think this is a contest with a winner and losers and you 'win' because you 'stand unrefuted'...by ignoring everything that you disagree with. 

The solution to trolls is not to give them any more attention, any more of the validation they desperately seek. I don't care if you disagree with me about the economy because it's not about you, no matter how much you insist on trying to make it about you. You don't make any decisions, so what do I care whether you agree or not?

I encourage people not to give this guy or this thread any more attention. What is there to be gained arguing with trolls and white knights? They aren't stand-ins for bioware, they're just wannabes with nothing better to do.

 

Ad hominem logical fallacy. Useless. 

[SteveTheCynic]

On 4/16/2023 at 11:25 PM, WayOfTheWarriorx said:

Quite honestly, I'm not sure if Iokath recombinators can be obtained through crew skill gathering missions as I'm only familiar with Bioanalysis and Diplomacy gathering skills, so I can't really speak to that with any first hand knowledge. I'm sure that StevetheCynic could answer that.

Iokath Recombinators can be bought for 260 000 credits each from the <Recovered Goods Vendor> Nessl Vaccan in the Alliance Staging Area on Odessen.  As as I know, that's the only way to obtain new ones.  (Buying from the GTN does not create new ones...)

[Stradlin]

On 4/17/2023 at 8:22 PM, StrikePrice said:

This is a 100% technical issue. I agree, the limit on the GTN should be raised.

Your argument has nothing to do with the economy. If two items are of similar or the same value, you can get one for the other. The presence of items on the GTN is sometimes spotty at best. There have been many times I have had to wait long periods of time checking the GTN for things I want. Nothing has changed. Yes, you have to look for a player to buy what you have and one selling what you want. But that's no different than before.

Let's say there's wild hyperinflation going IRL.In order to get a loaf of bread, you must haul cash in to the store with a wheelbarrow. Everybody needs wheelbarrows, so they run out. ->Economy is fine, lack of wheelbarrows is purely a technical issue. Right?

 

Some degree of inflation is a complete given in every single MMO, I suppose only succeess  for devs to be found from this constant is if they manage to keep it somewhat steady, somewhat in check. Which it was in SWTOR, til 2020/21 or thereabouts.  Current hyperinflation wouldn't be as much of an issue if players had ways to deal with it.(=bigger pricetags in GTN etc) but players do not.

Therefore, the inflation is a huge issue. Fixing it is difficult, giving players tools for coping with it would prolly be less difficult.

 

 

 

 

[ceryxp]

13 minutes ago, Stradlin said:

Some degree of inflation is a complete given in every single MMO, I suppose only succeess  for devs to be found from this constant is if they manage to keep it somewhat steady, somewhat in check. Which it was in SWTOR, til 2020/21 or thereabouts. 

Fairly steady until, oh, 27 April 2021, roughly?  The day the supply chain broke.  Well, that and the insane amount of credits that were being handed out for regular gameplay throughout 6.0 that caused a noticeable jump in GTN prices from summer 2019 to summer 2020.

[Stradlin]

56 minutes ago, ceryxp said:

Fairly steady until, oh, 27 April 2021, roughly?  The day the supply chain broke.  Well, that and the insane amount of credits that were being handed out for regular gameplay throughout 6.0 that caused a noticeable jump in GTN prices from summer 2019 to summer 2020.

Its just that most of  everything else  (materials, player crafted stuff, anything that is in demand)  is what,   4- 10 times more expensive than it used to be in 2020 just as well. Granted, CM items (well, crates and high tier plat stuff  anyway) certainly have supply vs demand going too, not just inflation. The bit misguided conq patch of early 2020 is when it began gaining speed though, yeah. There, all characters needed only 6-12 mins to get conquest weeklies done. Which originally  had their  rewards balanced with like..one evenings worth of gameplay in mind. So casual players, hardcore players, legit players, exploiters, humans, bots, all began creating so much more money to the game than previously.

 

Edited April 19, 2023 by Stradlin

[StrikePrice]

20 hours ago, Stradlin said:

Let's say there's wild hyperinflation going IRL.In order to get a loaf of bread, you must haul cash in to the store with a wheelbarrow. Everybody needs wheelbarrows, so they run out. ->Economy is fine, lack of wheelbarrows is purely a technical issue. Right?

 

Some degree of inflation is a complete given in every single MMO, I suppose only succeess  for devs to be found from this constant is if they manage to keep it somewhat steady, somewhat in check. Which it was in SWTOR, til 2020/21 or thereabouts.  Current hyperinflation wouldn't be as much of an issue if players had ways to deal with it.(=bigger pricetags in GTN etc) but players do not.

Therefore, the inflation is a huge issue. Fixing it is difficult, giving players tools for coping with it would prolly be less difficult.

See? In your example, hyper-inflation is bad because people can't buy food. There is no such issue in SWTOR because prices to play the game are completely stable.  The only problem is cosmetics from other players. And, in that situation CC prices are stable versus USD.

Your example is not applicable and inflation is not an issue.

Again, provide an example of something you cannot afford simply by playing the game. You can't. These weak attempts to relate a MMO to real life are ridiculous and not applicable. In your example, things that *you must* buy get more expensive. This is not the case here. 

Furthermore, it's now easier to earn credits from other players at "inflated" prices. OEM/RPMs go for ~60m still.

Edited April 20, 2023 by StrikePrice

[DWho]

The whole problem with the "needs" vs "wants" argument is that it is "wants" that get players to sub. A f2p player who plays up to his max level is going to look at what he earned completing missions and what even a minor cosmetic item costs on the GTN and make the judgement that he is never going to have enough credits to buy it and thus will not sub (same goes for a returning preferred player looking at his bank account and prices). A subbed player is going to make the same assessment on whether to re-sub.

The high prices on the GTN (and elsewhere) disincentivize player subs. Whether it is a "need" or "want" is irrelevant. It is doubtful that Bioware would even be talking about fixing the economy if they had not made the assessment that the high prices are impacting their revenues negatively. Comments on the forums rarely, if ever, have an impact.

Edited April 20, 2023 by DWho

[StrikePrice]

1 minute ago, DWho said:

The whole problem with the "needs" vs "wants" argument is that it is "wants" that get players to sub. A f2p player who plays up to his max level is going to look at what he earned completing missions and what even a minor cosmetic item costs on the GTN and make the judgement that he is never going to have enough credits to buy it and thus will not sub (same goes for a returning preferred player looking at his bank account and prices). A subbed player is going to make the same assessment on whether to re-sub.

The high prices on the GTN (and elsewhere) disincentivize player subs. Whether it is a "need" or "want" is irrelevant. It is doubtful that Bioware would even be talking about fixing the economy if they had not made the assessment that the high prices are impacting their revenues negatively. Comments on the forums rarely, if even, have an impact.

You may be right. I certainly won't speak for Bioware. My personal opinion is that they are putting in stop-gap measures to make the community happy before they can implement the technical fix of allowing the GTN to go > 1B. But, that is just speculation on my part. Time will tell what they decide to do.