Don't let Experianced palyersneed to to early lvl flaspoints

[DWho]

4 minutes ago, Darcmoon said:

People use story and solo mode interchangeable since it is the same thing for the FPs where you get the Jesus bot.  It’s only been since around ‘Fractured Alliances’ that BW has had differences in them. 

The list of flashpoints without Solo modes is very long: Hammer Station, Athiss, Mandalorian Raiders, Cademimu, Collicoid War Games, Red Reaper, Kaon Under Seige, Lost Island, Kuat Drive Yards, Czerka Labs, Czerka Core Meltdown.

Edited March 23, 2023 by DWho

[Darcmoon]

2 minutes ago, DWho said:

The list of flashpoints without Solo modes is very long: Hammer Station, Athiss, Mandalorian Raiders, Cademimu, Collicoid War Games, Red Reaper, Kaon Under Seige, Lost Island, Kuat Drive Yards, Czerka Labs, Czerka Core Meltdown.

I don’t argue that but they don’t have a solo or story mode.   Most groups are also a lot more forgiving during those vet FP if someone wants to watch since the cutscenes are so much shorter.  

Edited March 23, 2023 by Darcmoon

[Wagerbane]

If you queue in the hopper you get in place in automatic group system don't matter who you be with is the rules. You not allowed kicking out members in queue. You need to try make a player group with your same level as you without use the queue. Some of you been pressure members in a group like press the space bar for skip movie clips. Some of you try to rush inside skipping targets instead fighting the targets in the middle and lead the group get stuck or fall over down 50,000 feet below!  lol. You need to solo the mission yourself if you want to skip! You should name yourself skippy!

[Toraak]

10 hours ago, DWho said:

New players got the most benefit out of it since "experienced" players have played the game enough to have a cadre of friends to play with and know how to form groups. New players don't have the connections in game yet to form their own groups, for many the early flashpoints provided that. It is unreasonable to expect those least able to form groups to do so, so that the more experienced players can speed run the content more easily.

Edit: It was added back in 2.0 when high level characters could still solo all of the low level flashpoints (and the game population was high enough that finding a group to do a flashpoint was as simple as standing by the entrance to it) so there was no reason, other than social, to group up a bunch of high level characters to run them (there were other flashpoints for high level characters to run in groups if they wanted the challenge). Now, the reason people run them with high level characters through Group Finder is for the increased rewards (primarily anyway).

This is incorrect. Group Finder came out during 1.3 on 6/26/2012. 

 

GF was put in to help ALL players get groups easier.

 

As for new players not having connections to get groups, that isn't to difficult. Join a guild that does content your interested in. This has always been the case ever since 1.0. None of us had connections when we first started, and looking for a guild of like minded people is how you make those connection

Edited March 24, 2023 by Toraak

[DWho]

10 hours ago, Toraak said:

GF was put in to help ALL players get groups easier.

OK, then why should they make changes to make it more difficult for low level players to play flashpoints as has been suggested by several people in this thread. There should be no limitations on what players can do in the flashpoint. If someone wants to watch the cutscenes, they should not have to "form their own groups" or "run the solo mode". If GF is for everyone, it is for everyone regardless of their playstyle.

[DWho]

10 hours ago, Toraak said:

Join a guild that does content your interested in.

Shouldn't this apply to the speed-runners as well?

[xxSHOONYxx]

1 hour ago, DWho said:

OK, then why should they make changes to make it more difficult for low level players to play flashpoints as has been suggested by several people in this thread. There should be no limitations on what players can do in the flashpoint. If someone wants to watch the cutscenes, they should not have to "form their own groups" or "run the solo mode". If GF is for everyone, it is for everyone regardless of their playstyle.

Why cater to one group specific? Having people doing the same fps for 10 years and they can become toxic to new players and doesn't benefit the game making new players leave, but force the veterans to see 2/10 minutes of cutscenes or stay on a still image waiting for someone to finish the conversation that they have seen a million times each fp they do and it will drive them away from fp or the game.
It could be the best story telling ever, but after some time you will start to get bored of it or dread it.

It's way better to reach a compromise or an in between. A good thing FFXIV does for new players is make "flashpoints" have extra rewards for the group when someone is new to the fp that way people actually want to do "flashpoints" with new players and they are friendly to them

[ronin_chi_lao]

15 minutes ago, xxSHOONYxx said:

A good thing FFXIV does for new players is make "flashpoints" have extra rewards for the group when someone is new to the fp that way people actually want to do "flashpoints" with new players and they are friendly to them

I agree with this and think it's an excellent idea to put in the game. Especially for vet's getting an extra reward for pulling the new players through. 
If I knew I was getting a real nice bonus when the vet Flashpoint has players below a certain level, I would be queueing up for them like I used to till I passed out at the pc.
I have never been more idle on the game until this past year. (The only thing that kept me even semi active was galactic seasons otherwise).

[StrikePrice]

On 3/17/2023 at 1:15 PM, RowanThursday said:

The whole 'spacebar' thing seems to be a minefield. Wherever you look, someone has an opinion on it, and it appears to provoke more bitter feuds between players than anything else in the game. 

Don't mistake me, I'm with you on this, I absolutely loathe getting pugged with speed runners who zoom through everything like a hyperactive hamster on speed and fly into hysterical rages if anyone takes a moment to, you know, work out which way they're going, take a sip of a drink, breathe, or fart, let alone accidentally engages a mob group that the speed runner has judged to be skippable but is incapable of taking the time to communicate their intentions about, because, apparently, you're supposed to know.

I admit, my prejudices are showing, and I won't deny that, but there are more than enough threads around with incredibly bilious rants from those speed runners, furious about newbies or just slowbies apparently wasting 'their time' by not frantically hammering their spacebar till it breaks in every conversation, and so forth.

Now, my answer to how to resolve this discord would be "remove the option to spacebar cutscenes" so there's no longer the disagreement about doing it- but, like I just said, I'm incredibly biased, grins.

A fairer and more sensible answer, would probably be to add to the gorram group finder checkboxes for "Speed-run" and "Auto-skip cutscenes", and let us choose.  That would be better for all of us. 

The speed runners wouldn't be being slowed down by us stopping to smell the daisies and enjoy the game, and so would get a far less frustrating experience of playing "their" way, and we'd be able to enjoy playing our way without either enraging them, getting enraged by them, or both.

I've been dying to ask a person like you a question. Why don't you do the FP in story mode where you can take all the time you want? Why do you wait to waste 3 other peoples' time?

[StrikePrice]

On 3/16/2023 at 2:11 PM, dynatrope said:

I've only experianced a poor or abusive time with lvl 80 experianced players doing eary lvl flahspoints with lower lvl charcters just because they need the week;y achivement - I'm tired of them and have cancled my sub

The fact that BT and Essles are in the Groupfinder is one of the worst decisions Bioware ever made. It's just stupid. 

[DWho]

13 minutes ago, StrikePrice said:

I've been dying to ask a person like you a question. Why don't you do the FP in story mode where you can take all the time you want? Why do you wait to waste 3 other peoples' time?

BT and Esseles aside. 10 of the 28 GF flashpoints don't have a solo mode and can't be done in anything less than Veteran mode so there is no option to "take all the time you want".

[LD_Little_Dragon]

2 hours ago, DWho said:

BT and Esseles aside. 10 of the 28 GF flashpoints don't have a solo mode and can't be done in anything less than Veteran mode so there is no option to "take all the time you want".

So much this.  I'm guilty of sometimes typing 'this fp has a solo mode' for the longer flashpoints, but I know exactly what does, and what does not, have a solo mode.    If someone wants to watch the cutscenes in even Hammer, let them. 

If you're max level and still running Vet fp instead of MM, then suck it up and let new players have fun.   

[Ardrossan]

I'm a little confused--I don't run FPs much so maybe this is my ignorance showing, but I thought GF was like pvp and 80s were confined to a separate tier to run FPs. It doesn't make much sense that they'd be grouped with lowbies. 

7 hours ago, DWho said:

OK, then why should they make changes to make it more difficult for low level players to play flashpoints as has been suggested by several people in this thread. There should be no limitations on what players can do in the flashpoint. If someone wants to watch the cutscenes, they should not have to "form their own groups" or "run the solo mode". If GF is for everyone, it is for everyone regardless of their playstyle.

GF has been pretty deliberately designed to cater to players wanting the daily reward, whatever its original design might have been. People who want the story should form their own groups--ideally through their guild--or run the solo mode if it's available for that FP. You can certainly ask people to slow down because you want to enjoy the story, but it depends on what the majority want, and if they say no and you continue to watch the cutscenes instead of spacebarring, they have every right to kick you. And that is coming from someone who only does story and rarely does group FPs for that exact reason. 

[RowanThursday]

3 hours ago, StrikePrice said:

I've been dying to ask a person like you a question. Why don't you do the FP in story mode where you can take all the time you want? Why do you wait to waste 3 other peoples' time?

 

Actually, I don't. I'll play it in story mode if available. That's the point really, that there ought to be story mode options available for all the flashpoints. You don't want us "wasting" your time- we don't want you pestering us to hurry while we're trying to enjoy the game. 

What I was trying to indicate with my earlier post is that this does not- or should not- make us (as archetypes of players, not as individuals) "enemies".)  Each of our ways of enjoying the game is equally valid and - aside from wry amusement - worthy of respect as how we choose to spend our time- the fault is in the element of the game design which fails to let us play without getting under each other's feet.  Your goal of amassing the maximum amount of the game currency/other rewards of choice in the most efficient way in the minimum of time isn't more important than our desire to enjoy the story elements (whether for the first time or otherwise), or vice-versa.

Now- of course- as you point out- if you're in it to see the story and you're playing a flashpoint which has a story mode, then it blatantly makes more sense to use the story mode. Those which don't have separate 'story' modes, though, "belong" to each group as much, and no more, than the other. This doesn't work, and should be changed, but until it isn't, the fact that the group finder reward flashpoint roulette that it's important to you (as an archetype) to play requires you to share flashpoint space with us, doesn't oblige us to play "your" way, any more than it would the other way around - it's the system that's broken, and if the speed runner players take out their frustration for that on the other players who didn't want to play their way in the first place, then all that does is increase the hostility, and certainly doesn't increase the odds of anyone moving faster.

[StrikePrice]

16 minutes ago, RowanThursday said:

Now- of course- as you point out- if you're in it to see the story and you're playing a flashpoint which has a story mode, then it blatantly makes more sense to use the story mode. Those which don't have separate 'story' modes, though, "belong" to each group as much, and no more, than the other. This doesn't work, and should be changed, but until it isn't, the fact that the group finder reward flashpoint roulette that it's important to you (as an archetype) to play requires you to share flashpoint space with us, doesn't oblige us to play "your" way, any more than it would the other way around - it's the system that's broken, and if the speed runner players take out their frustration for that on the other players who didn't want to play their way in the first place, then all that does is increase the hostility, and certainly doesn't increase the odds of anyone moving faster.

I agree with this. But, for the most part, you're talking about things like Hammer Station. If someone has never done it before and want's to understand the choice their making and watch the little video, I don't mind that at all. It's 30 seconds long. 

I'm talking about FPs that take a looooong time if you watch all the cutscenes and agonize over your choices. For example, Depths of Manaan. You can run that in Solo. In fact, you have to run it in Solo to continue to story. To me, it's just selfish at that point not to use sb. 🤷‍♂️

Edit: But in all honesty if someone announces it at the start, then I'm fine with it. Like "hey, I'd like to watch the cutscenes, or I'm leveling can we do less skips", I will be much more accommodating than if they do it in silence. 

Edited March 24, 2023 by StrikePrice

[DawnAskham]

4 hours ago, DWho said:

BT and Esseles aside. 10 of the 28 GF flashpoints don't have a solo mode and can't be done in anything less than Veteran mode so there is no option to "take all the time you want".

Those that don't have a solo mode also don't have a 'story' per se, such that the cut scenes are minimal and short.

Most don't care if someone wants to watch the one 30 second scene in the middle of Hammer Station but will become a lot more annoyed if someone wants to watch multiple cut scenes that last multiple minutes in the story-heavy FPs which DO have solo mode.

In random group content majority rules - if the majority wishes to play in a certain manner, the odd person out can either go along, leave, or not be surprised if they get kicked.

Edited March 24, 2023 by DawnAskham

[RowanThursday]

5 minutes ago, StrikePrice said:

I agree with this. But, for the most part, you're talking about things like Hammer Station. If someone has never done it before and want's to understand the choice their making and watch the little video, I don't mind that at all. It's 30 seconds long. 

I'm talking about FPs that take a looooong time if you watch all the cutscenes and agonize over your choices. For example, Depths of Manaan. You can run that in Solo. In fact, you have to run it in Solo to continue to story. To me, it's just selfish at that point not to use sb. 🤷‍♂️

Which I wouldn't disagree with- I've never played it other than in solo mode, and probably wouldn't, and if I were to, I'd not object to being politely asked to space bar it.  

Where I would object would be if being hit by demented screen spam of "spacebar spacebar spacebar" as if the idea of someone *not* doing so- or not doing so fast enough, after all, we all have different reaction times, and indeed network ping rates- one person repeatedly tapping their spacebar is not necessarily going to be as fast as another person doing so- is causing a full blown panic attack in the people wanting to speed run. 

I'm aware I'm probably talking about encounters with bad actors who likely don't represent the majority of their community, but I do  on occasion recall seeing chat covered with repeated angry interjections to spacebar which had already reached double figures... by the time the cutscene had actually loaded and I was in any position to hit the spacebar anyway. And that wasn't after an abnormally long load time on the cutscene, which of course can happen- to anybody- occasionally- either, but after being paused for about five or six seconds, at maximum.  At that point, I start to feel perturbed about the mental health of the person demanding it that urgently, more than inclined to particularly urgently comply.

Of course, there are variations either way. Just as you've noted that you don't think anyone rational would object to a player watching the short cutscenes in Hammer Station and Athiss and so on, but it's the lengthy story scenes in Shadow of Revan's flashpoints that cause friction, similarly I'd not object to "I'm actually on a limited time here, unless someone's doing this for the first time, please can we spacebar the cutscenes here?" at all, but would get immediately irritated by "Spacebar spacebar lolz noobzzz" from some nitwit - and, again, there's a whole world of variation of politeness between those two

Edited March 24, 2023 by RowanThursday

[DWho]

5 minutes ago, DawnAskham said:

Those that don't have a solo mode also don't have a 'story' per se, such that the cut scenes are minimal and short.

This is patently false. Of the 10 that don't almost all of them are old pre-Hutt Cartel ones that have fairly extensive story telling in them

[elimatorxv]

 

On 3/23/2023 at 7:07 PM, DWho said:

The list of flashpoints without Solo modes is very long: Hammer Station, Athiss, Mandalorian Raiders, Cademimu, Collicoid War Games, Red Reaper, Kaon Under Seige, Lost Island, Kuat Drive Yards, Czerka Labs, Czerka Core Meltdown.

hammer station, athiss, mando raiders, cademimu, collicoid, red reaper and kuat drive yards dont have any story cutscenes inside the flashpoint, and czerka labs only 1 cutscene with just boss saying something same for core meltdown

and only kaon and lost island have some actuall dialogue where your character gets to speak aswell but it would require some redesigns and bioware aint gonna do that.

[DawnAskham]

29 minutes ago, DWho said:

This is patently false. Of the 10 that don't almost all of them are old pre-Hutt Cartel ones that have fairly extensive story telling in them

HAHAHAHAHAHA

Hammer Station has fairly extensive storytelling inside the FP?

Please enlighten me.

I'm not saying they shouldn't have a solo mode for all FPs (they should), only that the ones which have been excluded tend to be the ones with minimal story and minimal cut scenes.

 

Edited March 25, 2023 by DawnAskham

[Darcmoon]

15 hours ago, LD_Little_Dragon said:

So much this.  I'm guilty of sometimes typing 'this fp has a solo mode' for the longer flashpoints, but I know exactly what does, and what does not, have a solo mode.    If someone wants to watch the cutscenes in even Hammer, let them. 

If you're max level and still running Vet fp instead of MM, then suck it up and let new players have fun.   

Why shouldn't someone who is max level run Vet FP?  Why should they be running MM instead?

[Traceguy]

On 3/16/2023 at 4:11 PM, dynatrope said:

I've only experianced a poor or abusive time with lvl 80 experianced players doing eary lvl flahspoints with lower lvl charcters just because they need the week;y achivement - I'm tired of them and have cancled my sub

Live and learn. Someday you're going to be the level 80 who has a few minutes outside of work and family life to get something completed in the game, and another low level player is going to run around a flashpoint like a 2 year old.

Edited March 27, 2023 by Traceguy

[Traceguy]

On 3/22/2023 at 3:44 PM, DWho said:

two problems with that approach

1) not all early flashpoints have a solo mode (Athiss for example)

2) You can't learn how to play tanks or healers by doing the solo flashpoints. They are all set up for DPS.

Not all flashpoints have story mode, but all vet flashpoints can be solo'd with healing companion. Yes all.

Want to learn tanking? Make a choice, be a tank, or be a cutscene watcher. Because watching the nukes on Cademimu will not make you a better tank.

Edited March 27, 2023 by Traceguy

[LD_Little_Dragon]

3 minutes ago, Traceguy said:

Not all flashpoints have story mode, but all vet flashpoints can be solo'd with healing companion. Yes all.

 

I can solo the vet flashpoints, and some MM fp.

That said, you have no right to expect every player in the game to be able to solo what is GROUP content.

Not every player in the game has the same time, or the skill, or the gear, or even the physical ability, to solo vet flashpoints.   It's Bioware that put story and cutscenes into the game and locked it behind group content.  Let people see it.

[Traceguy]

4 minutes ago, LD_Little_Dragon said:

That said, you have no right to expect every player in the game to be able to solo what is GROUP content.

Well you should not expect to make people who have played the game for 10 years have to watch a minute long cutscene of Engineers working with the question "Murder these engineers or capture them". 

Why the <censored> do you care about cutscenes when you used Group Finder? If you didn't talk the the quest giver for that flashpoint, you have no idea why your character is even there, so why do you care for the story?

Edited March 27, 2023 by Traceguy