Currency reform

[Sundown]

2 hours ago, Taranx said:

So what would be your solution?

I first need to understand, what the problem is. There are billions of credits in the game, granted. What is it to you? Is there anything you want or need where this is an issue? If yes, then please list, then one can think of solutions.

That is not meant disrespectfully, I honestly want to understand the issue. I am more on the broke side, but I am not missing anything. I am able to equip, to decorate, to space barbie…

[CKNORTH]

9 hours ago, _Re_V_aN_ said:

 Tokens for sub time? What do u mean?

What I mean is ultimately there should be a consumable from the Store that people can use on the GTN that Takes Credits off the market. So say a Token for 30 days of subscription time. the Token value could be say 3500CC when bought you put it on the GTN for its market value say 700m as an example, someone then "Uses" the token and is granted 30 days of subscription time on their accounts. 

[Chryptyk]

I've been jealous of my WoW friends for a long time being able buy sub time with in-game currency.

[CKNORTH]

1 hour ago, Chryptyk said:

I've been jealous of my WoW friends for a long time being able buy sub time with in-game currency.

Would be nice if it was done here... 

Edit: Or they could add tokens to the CE vender for 1.5B keep the credit caps in place for non subs, that way 1 initial fee minimum 1 month of sub time, second fee is CE vender. That way EA still makes their $ on the game, and if sub time lapses you still need to pay for 1 month minimum sub. 

Edited January 7, 2023 by CKNORTH

[SteveTheCynic]

6 hours ago, CKNORTH said:

What I mean is ultimately there should be a consumable from the Store that people can use on the GTN that Takes Credits off the market. So say a Token for 30 days of subscription time. the Token value could be say 3500CC when bought you put it on the GTN for its market value say 700m as an example, someone then "Uses" the token and is granted 30 days of subscription time on their accounts. 

I've seen the downside of that sort of token.  The people who *use* it are, in effect, turned into goldfarmers for the people who pay the CCs for it.

And the stable price would be no more than what people can farm in around three weeks or so, certainly not more than what we can farm in a month.  And it would be for ex-subscribers only, since it would end up costing way more GTN credits than the one million that non-subs could afford.  (That is, you buy one in the dying days of your paid-for subscription, and use it once the subscription ends, endlessly farming credits to pay for the next one.)

[CKNORTH]

37 minutes ago, SteveTheCynic said:

I've seen the downside of that sort of token.  The people who *use* it are, in effect, turned into goldfarmers for the people who pay the CCs for it.

And the stable price would be no more than what people can farm in around three weeks or so, certainly not more than what we can farm in a month.  And it would be for ex-subscribers only, since it would end up costing way more GTN credits than the one million that non-subs could afford.  (That is, you buy one in the dying days of your paid-for subscription, and use it once the subscription ends, endlessly farming credits to pay for the next one.)

one thing you are not considering tho is a static price of 1.5b on the CE vender would delete credits, that is the goal, and it would delete quite a bit from the super rich, secondly, it would be a bind on pick up which means non tradeable, this would cause those who do purchase it a limited to their own account. Lastly it would over time be harder to afford the 1.5b from the GTN with less credits in circulation prices would drop, in the case 1.5 is doable by 90% of the population without much worry, then in order for it to be effective a non transferable instant 30 day token consumed on purchase from the CE vender hypothetically speaking would be increased to a more sustainable number to say 2b or 2.5b that if people were to have a monthly free 30 days it would take a month to farm. Also to make it not extreme for the filthy rich cap the token to no more than 180 accumulated per tokens at any given time.

Edit: Reason being 180 days is so at some point, they need to continually purchase tokens,

Edit2: So got to thinking and to make this even more of a credit delete option forget 30days for 1.5b make it only 3 days at a time for 1billion even. That could potentially delete 10billion credits per month.

Edited January 7, 2023 by CKNORTH

[CKNORTH]

My Second Suggestion might not be as appealing either for credits being deleted off servers to lower the insane prices of inflation. BUT in the end any suggestion is not going to be liked. Add a pad rent type deal or weekly credit taxes tabbed to SH, Base the prices according to the affordability of each SH the More luxurious ofc will pay more, and also add a deco tax fee, each deco placed costs 1-5Credits per week. But at the same time, give people a market for their SH, allow people to Sell Decorated Strong Holds. You know those little kiosks on the planets that they have and in Fleet that have a static fee per SH? add a market place tab to View peoples Decorated SH that they can Sell. People can travel to them and place a bid or buyout on anyone's SH that people decide to list for in credits. I for one would like to sell a few of my SH to others, seeing as I only typically use 1. But I love decorating and the option to sell would be interesting. 

Guilds should have options as well, Dead guilds with ships and SH could be added to the list of "For Sale" options. Just an idea.

[xordevoreaux]

1 hour ago, CKNORTH said:

Add a pad rent type deal or weekly credit taxes tabbed to SH, Base the prices according to the affordability of each SH the More luxurious ofc will pay more, and also add a deco tax fee, each deco placed costs 1-5Credits per week.

You're right, not popular.

Everquest 2 has a split system for charging rent on houses (strongholds).  Some strongholds you must pay in-game cash for, but for larger, more elaborate abodes, you must put down real cash for them by buying their equivalent of cartel coins, but at least for those, there's no in-game weekly rental fee, but some of those houses aren't at all cheap in terms of real-world money.

Guilds are also subject to that rental fee, and must be paid with 2 forms of in-game currency, platinum + status, which must be either farmed by doing quests and crafting or tossing real-world cash at tokens to convert to status, which is as bad of a facetious money grab as there ever was.

In the EQ2 system, if you don't have rich guild members  who can reach into their real-world wallets and buy those tokens, and / or your guild doesn't have a lot of members, that can become a true burden on a guild, and the way it works, the more decorations, crafting tables, and goodies are in a stronghold, the higher the rent.

Guild and housing rent can kill any joy in acquiring in-game currency, because if you don't want to be locked out of your stronghold, better keep that rent up to date, so there's money don't the drain you can't buy anything else with, like armor, mounts, or whatever. Some houses are pittances to maintain, 8 silvers a week, others are several plat a week + status (which means time devoted to farming for your rental properties as opposed to doing anything else, or chucking real-world cash at status tokens).

Not a fan of that system at all. Much prefer the rent-free system in SWTOR.

Another consideration are the free-to-play players. There were three, count them, three instances, all near max player count, on Tython on Star Forge tonight. I looked at some of those players. Brand spanking new legacies, not a single achievement or percentage completion of anything to their names, which means new, raw accounts.

How would those people feel, just starting the game, upon learning they're playing two games -- SWTOR, and Hotel Tycoon, maintaining strongholds.
Create a new account lately? Remember what it was like getting 8k scraped together as a lowby just to buy a vendor-sold mount in the Senate Plaza on Coruscant?

That's some serious cash for new players, and having to farm that out to a money sink to maintain a stronghold week to week or get locked out of it?

Bad idea.

Edit: REALLY bad idea.

Edited January 8, 2023 by xordevoreaux

[CKNORTH]

2 hours ago, xordevoreaux said:

You're right, not popular.

Everquest 2 has a split system for charging rent on houses (strongholds).  Some strongholds you must pay in-game cash for, but for larger, more elaborate abodes, you must put down real cash for them by buying their equivalent of cartel coins, but at least for those, there's no in-game weekly rental fee, but some of those houses aren't at all cheap in terms of real-world money.

Guilds are also subject to that rental fee, and must be paid with 2 forms of in-game currency, platinum + status, which must be either farmed by doing quests and crafting or tossing real-world cash at tokens to convert to status, which is as bad of a facetious money grab as there ever was.

In the EQ2 system, if you don't have rich guild members  who can reach into their real-world wallets and buy those tokens, and / or your guild doesn't have a lot of members, that can become a true burden on a guild, and the way it works, the more decorations, crafting tables, and goodies are in a stronghold, the higher the rent.

Guild and housing rent can kill any joy in acquiring in-game currency, because if you don't want to be locked out of your stronghold, better keep that rent up to date, so there's money don't the drain you can't buy anything else with, like armor, mounts, or whatever. Some houses are pittances to maintain, 8 silvers a week, others are several plat a week + status (which means time devoted to farming for your rental properties as opposed to doing anything else, or chucking real-world cash at status tokens).

Not a fan of that system at all. Much prefer the rent-free system in SWTOR.

Another consideration are the free-to-play players. There were three, count them, three instances, all near max player count, on Tython on Star Forge tonight. I looked at some of those players. Brand spanking new legacies, not a single achievement or percentage completion of anything to their names, which means new, raw accounts.

How would those people feel, just starting the game, upon learning they're playing two games -- SWTOR, and Hotel Tycoon, maintaining strongholds.
Create a new account lately? Remember what it was like getting 8k scraped together as a lowby just to buy a vendor-sold mount in the Senate Plaza on Coruscant?

That's some serious cash for new players, and having to farm that out to a money sink to maintain a stronghold week to week or get locked out of it?

Bad idea.

Edit: REALLY bad idea.

Eh, at the rate I'm making credits as a subscriber, in less then a month my Legacy will be tapped out at 104B At that point, 3 month subscription for this game is all that is needed. EVER. New player or not. sitting at 104B in the Legacy SH as a preferred player with content unlocked? Only thing that keeps the GTN going is the sales from the store, and it is completely optional. about 4-5 key items are needed if that from the store. 1, nice cosmetic skin, 3 crystals end, env, master? 1-3 mounts if that. and perhaps the kolto tank. the unlocked all those in collections. Content wise 1-50 I could personally enjoy endlessly maybe add RoTHC and SoR. Done. End game is in fact not really needed. PvP is well PvP and optional. Coruscant is the only SH I actually consistently use. With a GTN kiosk to sell your mats on, some lights and carpet... I Can and do max each companion at 4.2m a pop on any character I want max price. Largest Optional Legacy perk is what 2.5m max maybe? only perk worth truly buying at 1m is HK-51. Just my opinion but being a new player is not rough. IT WAS ROUGH in 1.0 now tho?? LOL

[SteveTheCynic]

12 hours ago, CKNORTH said:

one thing you are not considering tho is a static price of 1.5b on the CE vender would delete credits,

Tsk.  When I wrote what I wrote, your text (clearly visible in my quotation) had it as a CM item that could be sold on the GTN.

And 1.5B BoP on the CE vendor would definitely limit its availability, although at least now we can buy access to the vendor in the CM.

[illgot]

To fix credit inflation you need credits sinks. Deleting credits does not fix inflation.

[felleto]

I don't know about you guys but I kind of like the idea of rent suggested by @CKNORTH. I think it makes things a little bit more realistic. Like guilds who are big have a huge dreadnaught because they can pay fuel and repairs and all that. 

For strongholds same things. If you have a huge stronghold it should be expensive to keep. Lots of RPGs have this kind of system in place as money sinks for their players. (D&D to name one has had an upkeep cost for every type of lifestyle - Squalid, noble etc.) 

I think it could be a good way to drain credits. 

PS. I'm not suggesting that the costs be that high either. I don't know a number but it should be significant and the moment it becomes insignificant maybe it's time to move to a bigger lodging or to a bigger guild ship (maybe we could have different types of guild ships O.O)

[SteveTheCynic]

11 hours ago, felleto said:

I don't know about you guys but I kind of like the idea of rent suggested by @CKNORTH. I think it makes things a little bit more realistic. Like guilds who are big have a huge dreadnaught because they can pay fuel and repairs and all that. 

For strongholds same things. If you have a huge stronghold it should be expensive to keep. Lots of RPGs have this kind of system in place as money sinks for their players. (D&D to name one has had an upkeep cost for every type of lifestyle - Squalid, noble etc.) 

I think it could be a good way to drain credits. 

PS. I'm not suggesting that the costs be that high either. I don't know a number but it should be significant and the moment it becomes insignificant maybe it's time to move to a bigger lodging or to a bigger guild ship (maybe we could have different types of guild ships O.O)

The problem is that the rent is either prohibitive for newer players, or completely irrelevant to the mega-rich, possibly with a zone in the middle where both are true at the same time.

[Traceguy]

There's 2 kinds of people

1. Those who know how to make money

2. Those who cry over those who have money, and want money handed to them

[felleto]

3 hours ago, SteveTheCynic said:

The problem is that the rent is either prohibitive for newer players, or completely irrelevant to the mega-rich, possibly with a zone in the middle where both are true at the same time.

I understand that it should be relevant to the mega rich (my god are getting into the topic of rich people having to pay more taxes). For example, let's say you want to have your stronghold in coruscant and you need to pay 1.000k credits per week for the initial expansion. The more expansion the more costly your rent gets. Let's say it ends at 10k per week. 

Or maybe make the initial strongholds in Coruscant and Dromund Kass rent free so as not to restrict new players. Also, I think there should be some RP involved in it. Not just boom your credits are deducted from your account. For the guild ship that's easy. Adding an engineer NPC, a weapons specialist etc. So you have to talk to them everytime you want a certain perk to be activated and pay the credits for that. Maybe they will give you a warning through mail like: "Our fuel reserves are running dangerously low", or "Life support systems need repairs". Maybe if you don't pay for fuel you can't invade certain planets. Or if life support is gone maybe some areas of the ship have no gravity and are under emergency lights only. 

For stronghold I don't know exactly how that could work. 


 

[Darcmoon]

5 hours ago, felleto said:

I understand that it should be relevant to the mega rich (my god are getting into the topic of rich people having to pay more taxes). For example, let's say you want to have your stronghold in coruscant and you need to pay 1.000k credits per week for the initial expansion. The more expansion the more costly your rent gets. Let's say it ends at 10k per week. 

Or maybe make the initial strongholds in Coruscant and Dromund Kass rent free so as not to restrict new players. Also, I think there should be some RP involved in it. Not just boom your credits are deducted from your account. For the guild ship that's easy. Adding an engineer NPC, a weapons specialist etc. So you have to talk to them everytime you want a certain perk to be activated and pay the credits for that. Maybe they will give you a warning through mail like: "Our fuel reserves are running dangerously low", or "Life support systems need repairs". Maybe if you don't pay for fuel you can't invade certain planets. Or if life support is gone maybe some areas of the ship have no gravity and are under emergency lights only. 

For stronghold I don't know exactly how that could work. 


 

One issue with having the 'rent' go up the more you unlock, they have tied conquest bonuses to how many strongholds you own and have opened up.  Requiring a high rent to have the six strongholds fully open would be in opposition to the bonus.  As for the guild ships, small guilds (friend and family ones) who invade a planet just for the extra rewards may not be able to pay that amount.

[felleto]

1 minute ago, Darcmoon said:

One issue with having the 'rent' go up the more you unlock, they have tied conquest bonuses to how many strongholds you own and have opened up.  Requiring a high rent to have the six strongholds fully open would be in opposition to the bonus.  As for the guild ships, small guilds (friend and family ones) who invade a planet just for the extra rewards may not be able to pay that amount.

Good points. I don't know how exactly guild invasions work, but let's suppose you have a small guild ship. Moving it around the galaxy would cost less. Maybe have it so you can craft upgrades with Idk Cybertech for your engines and then they would be able to get around the galaxy with less fuel and the whole guild could work towards getting that spec and that item crafted. I know it's not perfect but It could add some interesting interaction between guild members (growing your ship, finding schematics, gathering materials, upgrading the ship) and also some huge credit sinks for guilds who want to dominate the galaxy with their huge dreadnaught or it would fall into disrepair and Idk Rakghouls invade the ship and you have to get it cleansed of the little pests haha. Or maybe Scavengers invade the ship to try to steal its goods and you have to get them out of there before that area is fully operational again. 

I'm just throwing ideas out there. Let me know what you think.

[Darcmoon]

1 minute ago, felleto said:

Good points. I don't know how exactly guild invasions work, but let's suppose you have a small guild ship. Moving it around the galaxy would cost less. Maybe have it so you can craft upgrades with Idk Cybertech for your engines and then they would be able to get around the galaxy with less fuel and the whole guild could work towards getting that spec and that item crafted. I know it's not perfect but It could add some interesting interaction between guild members (growing your ship, finding schematics, gathering materials, upgrading the ship) and also some huge credit sinks for guilds who want to dominate the galaxy with their huge dreadnaught or it would fall into disrepair and Idk Rakghouls invade the ship and you have to get it cleansed of the little pests haha. Or maybe Scavengers invade the ship to try to steal its goods and you have to get them out of there before that area is fully operational again. 

I'm just throwing ideas out there. Let me know what you think.

What would you do with the current guild ships?  Would they be considered small, medium or large?  I imagine it would piss alot of people off if they had to 'downgrade' their guild ship to continue to afford the 'rent', not counting whatever amount they have already spent to open it up.  I'll admit that I'm not in favor of adding a 'rent' aspect to the SHs or guild ships.  EQ2 has housing/guild housing with rent requirements, but they started off with that in place.  Their version of the cartel market has housing you can buy and it doesn't have a rent requirement.  

[felleto]

Maybe make the current guild ship the medium one (just for the sake of size because a dreadnaught is not a small ship) and I don't think a medium ship should have an expensive upkeep. I think a small guild should be able to maintain it. Design a small, huge and gargantuan one (maybe the gargantuan could be a space station and not a ship itself). In the case of the space station, maybe alies could stop by and pay to get their ships fueled and that would create revenue for the guild depending on the area of space they are occuping. They could also provide interesting quests and rewards for people from the guild that choose to complete them.