7.2 Feedback from an old PVPer

[egriz]

Hello there!

I'm an ex-ranked player, I played competitively in solo mode between seasons 1-10, but stopped and had a break from pvp up until 7.2.

Here are my thoughts about anything related to pvp that I can think about:

 

Balance / MM in WZ

I do not feel like the premades are taken into account during the matchmaking process. Although there are a few matches that are close, most of the time 1 team stomps the other with ease, either due to a premade or by chance the best players of the game being on the same team and the less experienced ones on the other.

That said, premades should be still possible. If a group of people decides to pvp together, they should have the option to do so, but premades should be up against other premades or stronger solo players. A premade of 4+ people should only be matched against another group of 4+.

In arenas, I find myself in a lot of 1T+3DPS vs 1H+3DPS or other matches where it is clear from the beginning that one side has a definite advantage (it does not mean that they can capitalize on it, but still..).

I would be willing to wait more for a pop for a more balanced match (and reading some of the posts, others might feel the same way).

 

Also, while in a WZ the class inbalances can somewhat even out during an entire match, in arenas this is not the case. I'd say some classes are barely playable or require a lot of experience. I guarantee that if a new player (who is not exceptionally talented) queues with one of those, after a couple of matches they will leave pvp forever.

I also thought there were changes to tanks earlier which made it preferred for them to use tank gear, what happened to that? Don't know about shadows, but guardians and vanguards are definitely better off with DPS gear. About 2-3x the damage without any significant reduction in survivability. I don't see an issue with this, but I do not think this is intended.

 

Lockout penalties for leaving a match

I never leave matches, so I was surprised when after a DC (the game put me back to the server selection screen) I could not queue for another 20mins. I thought this was way too much and then I read about the 1h and 6h penalties. This is ridiculous!

There should be ABSOLUTELY NO PENALTY for leaving a match for ANY reason whatsoever since 7.2. Any penalty could only be acceptable when leaving a ranked match (for obvious reasons). With ranked gone, the penalties should be gone aswell. Again, I write this as someone that never leaves a match intentionally.

If anyone wants to leave, they should be able to do so freely! If someone feels like they are wasting their time or simply not enjoying themselves in a match, they should not be forced to stay! Not to mention them leaving might be better for their teammates aswell!

Last week I was in a match where after 1min someone declared it was a lost cause, went into stealth and waited out the rest of the game in AFK (no, he was not defending, went to a safe position where the opponents couldn't find him even by accident and just stayed there)

1. Give a reason why this person could not leave! If there was no penalty, he would have left making it possible for someone else to join and actually do something. This way a situation was created where it was basically 7vs8 for the remaining 10mins. A waste of everyone's time!

2. I know Vote kick was removed, it has its own problems.. I'm not saying it should come back, but why is it in GSF for AFKers but not in pvp? (side note, as far as I know in GSF a new player might be flagged as AFK even if they are trying their best, but just not managing to hit an opponent). Anyway, vote kick would just cause more issues.

3. When one or more people decide that they are gonna just AFK, why are the others in the team forced to put up with that?

4. If someone has a DC or something happens IRL, they should not get penalised for leaving! On the contrary! If something unexpected happens and someone has to move away from the computer, with the penalty they will go AFK inside the match which is bad for everyone. With no penalty, they can just leave, enabling the MM to find a substitute who will also get a free medal for joining late to the match. Which one do you think is better?

5. Most players have limited time to play the game, a lockout means they cannot do the activities they want in that window. Either by staying in matches they want to leave, or by waiting for the lockout to go away.

Just remove the penalty and all these problems go away!

 

Medals

For achievement-hunters, the reduction of the obtainable medals is not an issue (I'll come back to this later), but for those who are new to pvp or just want to progress faster in the season, this is bad. Yes, there is bigger emphasis on gaining objective points, but this does not get the desired effect. 

For example in most situations only that single person gets the large amount of attacker points who first clicks on the objective, who walks through the goal line in Huttball, etc. The problem is that they are probably supported by a group of teammates making that possible, either by healing / protection, slowing the opponents or wiping them out. Now they get less recognition for their efforts. "Number farming" is outright required to get better results and is a core mechanic of some warzones like Ancient Hypergate, Yavin Ruins and even Voidstar when none of the teams can plant the bomb.

A good tank, a dps with high self- or off-heals or good taunting throughout the match could get medals either way, but the healers are screwed. If the other team is strong enough that the healers only have time to heal, they have to choose between keeping their teammates alive (which should be their priority) or letting them die to get medals some other way.

Basically you can do what is required of you and get less "rewards" for it as before. And even the defender points are inconsistent. I was in a match where me and some others were at the same objective the entire time stopping the attackers from capping and they received much more points and defender medals. Like the game did not register that I was standing right on top of the objective. I don't care about this, but others might get upset if this happened to them.

I just don't understand why medals were removed. Adjusting the requirements? Sure! But removing them? And not adding some other useful medals like interrupt a cap attempt, heal / protect the ball carrier, be near an objective when your team captures it, etc. And the one thing that I never understood was not changed: why give attacker points for picking up an orb in Hypergate? It gives nothing to the team unless you get to the pylon with it.. Often there is a huge fight, every little thing could decide the result and some people move away to get an orb with no time remaining on the clock. They get points for doing the wrong thing. Why not 0 points for getting the orb, but double the attacker points for scoring with them?

 

Limited time achievements

So the reason why medals do not matter when you want to get the achievements is that the amount of matches you have to participate in make the medals irrelevant. The progress cap will be reached long before you finish with the weeklies. That 25 WZ weekly + 25 Arena weekly requirement within the 12 weeks of the pvp season is an overkill. It is just too much effort and time. Either the required matches for the weeklies have to be reduced, or the required number of weeklies (imo about halved).

It also does not help that every weekly must be finished before the Tuesday reset or all the progress is lost. Did not like this change when it was implemented and still not a fan. 

 

Rewards

When I first heard about the changes I though the progression rewards would be something like in the Galactic Season: some sets, decors, pvp tokens, but also Cartel Coins, weapons, mounts, things like that. What we get in reality - compared to the amount of effort required for the progression in Galactic Seasons - is disappointing.

If we only look at the items available at the vendor, I think if someone puts in the effort and farms every token out during the season, they should be able to buy approximately the same amount of items that were given in previous seasons. Like 1 mount and 1 weapon or armor set, something like that. Maybe 1.5-2 mounts. So the rewards should be definitely cheaper.

What is ridiculously expensive is all the decoration rewards! I like decorations. I buy them whenever I can. But you took the decorations that were previously free rewards for the achievements (if you completed such an achievement, you got 999 decors) and put them in for 12 tokens? You mean if someone completes the entire Season 1 progress without the extra achievements they can buy exactly 1 decoration? How is that fair pricing? Definitely won't touch any of them until they are way cheaper.

Imo something like this should happen: I think the progress should give 15k tokens, with an extra 5k for the extra achievements. An old mount should be around 10k, a weapon or armor set maybe 7-8k. An entire stack of decors for 1k. And put the old achievement reward decors also back to their original achievement! If someone wants to spend tokens to get them, fine. But keep them available through the achievements!

And what about the ranked players that already have the previous rewards? Their preferred gamemode was taken away and in the new system they do not have anything meaningful to get! There are only the 2 sets that are very similar to the sets obtained through the progression.

Yes, there is the chance new shiny things will be added to the vendors later, but that was also my hope in the Galactic Season, and now its tokens are sitting in my inventory, because there is nothing new to buy that I care about. These old rewards are great for those who do not have them, but the veterans should also get something nice!

 

Closing thoughts

Removing the limit of the weekly playable matches for f2p players and separating arenas from warzones in "normal" pvp was a great idea! However due to the points mentioned above, replacing the ranked system with this current one was a mistake that will result in a lot of players trying and then quitting pvp. This is not a system that encourages new players to try pvp nor one that encourages queueing solo.

 

Sorry for the huge block of text!
 

[Samcuu]

Top post appreciate all the work you put into this. 

As far as the rewards and medals go, I admittedly could care less and haven't even looked at the rewards. I pvp to pvp and I'm about 12 levels into the season without having looked at 1 objective. However I know a lot of ppl participate because of the rewards ect. So if they are too hard to achieve or not worth the effort, the veteran players opinions on this stuff is massive. Hope bioware is listening and adjusts for season 2.

The one part of your post I'll disagree with is the lockout timers. I do agree they are too long for sure, and need to be adjusted but I think it's a necessary evil. Pvp has a lot of variables and you'll never be able to make it a perfect experience for everyone. With the example u gave for the afk guy, I honestly don't think the lockout timer deters anyone from leaving a match. I think you are gonna get afkers because u still get rewarded for finishing matches win or lose. Bioware has tried to diminish the afk ppl by making medals more important ect but you will see the guy who goes stealth and hides from time to time. Again there's probably no solution and you just gotta move on to the next game. Key for the revamp is getting as many ppl as possible into the queue so that guy will ruin ur experience and then u don't see him the rest of the night. 

So to get more ppl in queue I agree the rewards need to be better to incentivize ppl to play. The one thing I feel they've done is make grouping very important. Pvp with friends and in a group is infinitely more fun and I think a lot of ppl would look at it as a fun aspect of the game as opposed to a chore if they figured out the grouping thing. Getting into social pvp guilds and getting ppl excited about the game mode again. I've been saying that arenas were the worst thing that's happened to swtor pvp, and you've kinda made my point talking about how unbalanced classes and skill gap can be. Unforgiving for new ppl trying to learn to pvp. Objective large scale pvp is a much better mode for newer players where they can hide a bit and maybe get carried by more skilled teammates until they've dipped their toes into the water. 

[ZUHFB]

such a well written and good feedback

just a shame it gets burried in posts about lag switching and cheating by people who got farmed and now rather breathe in copium

[JowyyKazza]

I do think the achievement for 25 weeklys of 8v8 and 4v4 should either be reduced or changed to just a combined amount so you could do no arenas and still get it. I understand that might hurt the queue for 4v4 though. 
 

the lockout penalties are poorly designed though, I still see people leave quite often, either via choosing to leave or a disconnect or whatever, some leave before the match starts due to a map they hate, others 30 seconds before a win, and I would imagine if they started hitting long lock outs they will be done for the night which reduces the number of people in queue. Leaving before already had a lock out, now you get a longer lock out and it counts against you in your win lose record. That’s a lot of punishment for an unranked pvp system.

 

As for the rewards, yah it’s not great, the season one rewards of a faction banner or armour sets aren’t anything special. maybe season 2 will bring another revamp that fixes a lot of the issues you point out. Good post though, good work. 😀

[WHstwroATo]

Great feedback, it might be a huge block of text but it's nicely and cleanly written.

For the balance maybe about 1/3 of the matches that have played during the season have been close wins or loses or otherwise have more balanced feeling teams which are the best kind of matches and the rest basically stomps with either small chance to win or lose with huttball especially being majority of the time a stomp ending 6-0 (or similar like 2-8 or something where rarely see the timer run out) no matter if winning or losing, it's like almost no one cares about the huttball itself in them.

Lockouts do seem to be a bit extreme and will definitely penalize people who genuinely have less than optimal connection which would make pvping pretty much impossible with the received hours long lockouts, but unfortunately it probably isn't easy to determine if the disconnect was real or not. Have seen a few afk people in total during the season and so far doesn't seem to be a major issue (atleast not yet) but it's a good point that they could just leave and be replaced by someone else who actually tries to do something other than wait for it to end.

You make a very good point about the medals. I play majority of the time a healer and will choose focusing on keeping people alive for as long as possible more than medal activity hunting to which don't have that much time in exactly the situations you describe. Don't very often reach 8 medals in a match, averaging maybe around 3 - 4. In maps where there are more general style medals like finish with that amount of time left when winning, but without those feel barely get any medals even if it's supporting other people doing objectives like for example supporting huttball carrier any way can which you mentioned.

I hope your post gets noticed, it gives a lot of great feedback to improve pvp going forward.

[slowdude]

Long but good post.

12 hours ago, egriz said:

In arenas, I find myself in a lot of 1T+3DPS vs 1H+3DPS or other matches where it is clear from the beginning that one side has a definite advantage (it does not mean that they can capitalize on it, but still..).

It looks like the system treats tanks as the equivalent of a healer.

Vote, maybe the developers will read this feedback.

 

[Nee-Elder]

14 minutes ago, slowdude said:

Long but good post.

It was both well-written and, most importantly, even-keeled in tone (making it more appealing for BioWare humans to appreciate) .

But technically the OP didn't offer up anything new that hasn't already been said before, by others.

16 minutes ago, slowdude said:

maybe the developers will read this feedback.

There's no "maybe" about it.

They read everything.

However, they DO only what they want, depending upon EA, since it's their game not ours.

Once you accept that fact, it makes adapting to each patch/update much easier (in my opinion) .

[Weswhitebore]

On 1/3/2023 at 6:56 AM, Nee-Elder said:

They read everything.

You can't confirm that.

[Nee-Elder]

On 1/4/2023 at 6:27 PM, Weswhitebore said:

You can't confirm that.

i don't need to.

[SentinalMasterWW]

I do agree on the rewards, The reward to work value is not worth it. So If I get every single achievement and get all 20 Tokens, I can get one armor set. Wow totally worth it... At least with  Galactic seasons over in a reasonable amount of time they give you enough tokens that you can usually get a good amount of what you want during said season. Not to mention, to get all available tokens in a PVP seasons, you have to Q Arena's and Warzones. I don't mind arena's I played a bit of ranked before  7.2, but I want choice in how I get my tokens. It forces players to have Q for things they don't want to get more tokens. Not to mention the Progress on the PVP seasons is an utter SLOG, I get they wanted it to be done over a matter of time but honestly it feels like I can dedicate an entire week to warzones and just end up getting 1 tier level up.

[Weswhitebore]

On 1/11/2023 at 12:04 AM, SentinalMasterWW said:

s. I don't mind arena's I played a bit of ranked before  7.2, but I want choice in how I get my tokens. It forces players to have Q for things they don't want to get more tokens.

Well look at it another way. Nobody is forcing you to do anything, you can either do them or not do them, either way you still get tokens. Do you deserve to get the same amount of tokens doing WZs as opposed to doing both WZs and Arenas?? No, you don't. If I completed VM-R4 does that mean I deserve to clear Nim Gods?? No. If I get the Wings of Nihrot mount from Kanoth does that mean I deserve to get Wings of The Dragon from Nim Gods?? No. You are not being forced to do anything just like Galactic Seasons players are not being forced to play PVP, they are choosing to play PVP. You have a choice, Warzones for some tokens, arenas for some tokens, or both for all the tokens.

On 1/11/2023 at 12:04 AM, SentinalMasterWW said:

Not to mention the Progress on the PVP seasons is an utter SLOG, I get they wanted it to be done over a matter of time but honestly it feels like I can dedicate an entire week to warzones and just end up getting 1 tier level up.

That is true, that is very much a problem. I actually advocate for removing the weekly cap for points you can earn in a week, but still keeping a goal post for points in a week, kinda like how conquest works. You have a goal line to meet conquest but you can always earn more conquest points.

[Setta]

On 1/2/2023 at 6:59 PM, egriz said:

Limited time achievements

So the reason why medals do not matter when you want to get the achievements is that the amount of matches you have to participate in make the medals irrelevant. The progress cap will be reached long before you finish with the weeklies. That 25 WZ weekly + 25 Arena weekly requirement within the 12 weeks of the pvp season is an overkill. It is just too much effort and time. Either the required matches for the weeklies have to be reduced, or the required number of weeklies (imo about halved).

It also does not help that every weekly must be finished before the Tuesday reset or all the progress is lost. Did not like this change when it was implemented and still not a fan. 

This right here is one of my bigger annoyances.  Best case scenario of 25 weeklies is 4 matches for WZ and 8 for arena per weekly done.  At worst 12 & 24 matches.  On an average of a 50% win rate that's 6 matches for WZ (3 won 3 lost for a total of 12 points) and 12 Arena matches (6 won 6 lost).  Let's say an average WZ takes 15 min, and an average arena of about 10 min. I think it's honestly more than this, especially when you're doing 3 five min matches and have stealthers who will purposely run out the clock and then some, but let's just pretend 10 min on average, if you just happen to win 2 straight, or do a 1 loss & 2 wins,  but not have run out the clock on all counts. 

That's 1 & 1/2 hours for a WZ weekly, and 2 hours for Arena weeklies.  So 3 & 1/2 hours, x 25 Weeklies needed is 87 and 1/2 hours.  That's not counting waiting on ques, or doing anything else in the game.  Just 87 - 88 hours devoted to pvp over the course of 12 weeks.  That's a little over 7 hours a week devoted to just pvp alone if you want to get the extra tokens and title.  No Ops, no socializing, no story, GSF, helping guildies, rampage, roleplaying or w/e else people do.  Just pvp.

I'm under the impression that Bioware believes we do this as a fulltime job, and not as something for fun on the side.  They clearly believe we have no lives, and no other commitments. Anyways, I completely agree with the rest of your posts too, especially the rewards.  Removing decos from achievements and putting them up as a single item up for a whole seasons worth of tokens is some sort of a sick joke.  Bioware really needs to get their act together, cause so far this whole expansion has been the one of the biggest disappointments yet. They should just allow the old decos to be bought with credits for an extra credit sink.  It won't save the economy, but it can't hurt either. 

[Nee-Elder]

22 minutes ago, Setta said:

 That's a little over 7 hours a week devoted to just pvp alone if you want to get the extra tokens and title. 

I'm under the impression that Bioware believes we do this as a fulltime job, and not as something for fun on the side. 

hmm, ok so  right now ( as a "casual" and PVP'ing mostly with my healer mains )  i'm only at  'Level 10' on the season  and that's from PVP'ing around just 3 hours per week.  ( but on average i probably get between like 6-12 medals each WZ --- i haven't done but just a few Arenas so far in 7.2 era )

Are you saying i need to  DOUBLE  that ^ routine now to reach final  'Level' of season?

[Setta]

6 minutes ago, Nee-Elder said:

hmm, ok so  right now ( as a "casual" and PVP'ing mostly with my healer mains )  i'm only at  'Level 10' on the season  and that's from PVP'ing around just 3 hours per week.  ( but on average i probably get between like 6-12 medals each WZ --- i haven't done but just a few Arenas so far in 7.2 era )

Are you saying i need to  DOUBLE  that ^ routine now to reach final  'Level' of season?

No this is not for the seasonal track, this is for the pvp achievements for season 1. Seasonal track requires around 600 points a week on average I believe it was, which with 300 to 400 of that coming from objectives, it's not overly hard to reach.  

[Nee-Elder]

6 minutes ago, Setta said:

No , this is for the pvp achievements for season 1.

ahhhhh  ok,  cool thanks yeah  now i see what you mean ( in 'Legacy' tab )

Now i need to find  that BioWare post was that said exactly how long  each PVP season is supposed to last ...  ( can't remember if it was EricMusco or JackieKo  who posted it )

Edited January 16, 2023 by Nee-Elder

[Setta]

Just now, Nee-Elder said:

ahhhhh  ok,  cool thanks yeah  now i see what you mean ( in 'Legacy' tab )

Now i need to see where  that BioWare post was that said exactly how long  each PVP season is supposed to last ...  ( can't remember if it was EricMusco or JackieKo  who posted it )

12 weeks I believe it was, OP said 12 weeks as well. 

[Nee-Elder]

4 minutes ago, Setta said:

12 weeks I believe it was, OP said 12 weeks as well. 

Yep, thanks,  i just noticed it within that super long (but good) post by the OP.

Annnddd  i was wrong on both counts, since it was actually  BryantWood's post --> https://forums.swtor.com/topic/926631-pvp-seasons-level-points-stuff/#comment-9734720

Edited January 16, 2023 by Nee-Elder
Reason: i ran out of *click reactions* for today lol

[Setta]

On 1/3/2023 at 7:56 AM, Nee-Elder said:

It was both well-written and, most importantly, even-keeled in tone (making it more appealing for BioWare humans to appreciate) .

But technically the OP didn't offer up anything new that hasn't already been said before, by others.

I have to say it has been one of the better written posts I've seen in a very, very, long time on these forums.  That said, on the OP's behalf I'd like to add something new (since that seems to be something you're interested in) assuming he doesn't mind of course. Put GSF into the PvP track as well for those 100 points objectives.  Play X GSF matches.  Win Y GSF matches, and get Z amount of medals in GSF matches 4 times for a 100 points each per objective.  GSF is still pvp (even if done in ships) and some of us like it more than regular pvp.  Yet a massive amount of my time is now going to warzones when I'd rather be doing something else. 

[Nee-Elder]

Just now, Setta said:

 Put GSF into the PvP track as well for those 100 points objectives.  Play X GSF matches.  Win Y GSF matches, and get Z amount of medals in GSF matches 4 times for a 100 points each per objective.  GSF is still pvp (even if done in ships) and some of us like it more than regular pvp.  Yet a massive amount of my time is now going to warzones when I'd rather be doing something else. 

i ran out of *click reactions* ( cuz new forums cap per day )  but  YES ^ to that, however with one sorta big caveat:  How about just create an entirely new but parallel  GSF 'seasons'  too?

So, in other words, there could be 2 separate but equal  seasons 'tracks' ( options )  for players to umm  play their own way and earn more tokens.

Then BioWare could finally add some GSF themed decos & rewards, for the same tokens,  to guard against their worry ( or Rankers' concern ) that too many players might grind & get too many of those orignal PVP Ranked rewards (from the vendors) .

Just a thought.

[Setta]

3 minutes ago, Nee-Elder said:

i ran out of *click reactions* ( cuz new forums cap per day )  but  YES ^ to that, however with one sorta big caveat:  How about just create an entirely new but parallel  GSF 'seasons'  too?

So, in other words, there could be 2 separate but equal  seasons 'tracks' ( options )  for players to umm  play their own way and earn more tokens.

Then BioWare could finally add some GSF themed decos & rewards, for the same tokens,  to guard against their worry ( or Rankers' concern ) that too many players might grind & get too many of those orignal PVP Ranked rewards (from the vendors) .

Just a thought.

Sorry I'm not entirely sure on what you mean by "separate but equal tracks".  I'll start out by saying that I don't want to farm 3 seasonal tracks. Two already feels grindy as is, and three would just burn me out, and I'd probably just quit.  So then comes the question if that's not the case what else could it be.  One thing I see is that you can only make progress on one track or another for the same rewards. Like I could play 20 games of GSF reach tier 6 on the track and get all those rewards, but then play 15 games of PvP that week reach tier 5, and have nothing to show for it because I already got the rewards from doing GSF.  Instead I'd rather reach tier 8 or w/e by combining the two.  That just sounds way better to me.  Now if the rewards are different, then we're back to you've made 3 separate tracks, and I just don't want to grind all of that. If you go the route of you can only pick 1 track or the other and stick to it, I don't see the advantage here either. So I guess you'd have to explain to me, what it is you mean / want, and what the advantage of this system is before I agree.

Honestly I'd rather for PvP season 2, they just add more rewards, GSF decos and such being part of those extras as well.  Because the rewards for PvP don't come anywhere near the rewards of GS (even GS3 which is way worse than GS2) while being considerably more grindy than GS in general.  They could easily make the track 40 instead of 25, and add GSF stuff to it, while keeping the same amount of points required to max out the season. Just means each tier is less points.  Or even if they upped the points needed from 7k to say 10k as an example, increased the weekly cap from 1k to 1.5k and added the GSF points that you could earn (also have to increase the number of objectives you can complete from 4 to say 6 a week) there wouldn't be an issue really. 

 

[Nee-Elder]

2 minutes ago, Setta said:

Sorry I'm not entirely sure on what you mean by "separate but equal tracks".   

i mean like literally just copy the 'PVP Seasons'  template , but for  GSF ( but with different  more GSF/Space themed rewards ) .

Keep the same types of  'tokens' though, but just increase the cap  slightly.  ( so that players  could use both the ground PVP and the space PVP to grind tokens, depending upon mood & queue activity or whatever ) .

5 minutes ago, Setta said:

  Instead I'd rather reach tier 8 or w/e by combining the two.

The problem with combining into one single 'season track'  is:  While both are technically "PVP" , they are not only  vastly different  skillsets ( RL & game ) but also, more importantly, vastly different mindsets.

Plus, in my personal experience, generally the PILOT community by & large is wayyyyy  cooler/nicer  ( aka less "toxic" ) than say the typical ground PVP'er player.

Just sayin'.

[Weswhitebore]

49 minutes ago, Setta said:

e. Put GSF into the PvP track as well for those 100 points objectives. 

No. Leave the GSF players alone in their bubble that has nothing to do with real pvp.  They require vastly different skillsets but also, more importantly, vastly different mindsets. You can sit in a gunship all game and hit people across the map, these gunships can run away and have no intention of fighting you. In real pvp, you're gonna have to fight someone eventually unless you hide off in the corner somewhere.

 

11 minutes ago, Setta said:

Instead I'd rather reach tier 8 or w/e by combining the two. 

That's a lot of hard work for something that is likely not to be met with much positivity.

 

[Nee-Elder]

12 minutes ago, Weswhitebore said:

that has nothing to do with real pvp

They require vastly different skillsets but also, more importantly, vastly different mindsets.

Jinx you owe me a blue-milk --> https://forums.swtor.com/topic/926954-72-feedback-from-an-old-pvper/?do=findComment&comment=9738370

( see my 3rd or 4th sentence in that post  )

Also: your comment about supposed "real" pvp is exactly the type of attitude that validates my 2nd-to-last sentence in that post.

Edited January 16, 2023 by Nee-Elder
Reason: PVP = player versus player ( on ground AND in space )

[Setta]

56 minutes ago, Nee-Elder said:

i mean like literally just copy the 'PVP Seasons'  template , but for  GSF ( but with different  more GSF/Space themed rewards )

Yea can't speak for anyone else, but I really don't want to do 3 tracks, sorry.  I do agree though that GSF players are way nicer than Arena / Warzone players though. 

Edit : 

Quote

The problem with combining into one single 'season track'  is:  While both are technically "PVP" , they are not only  vastly different  skillsets ( RL & game ) but also, more importantly, vastly different mindsets.

I'm still not seeing your point.  So what if the skill set is different?  I mean playing a tank in pvp is different than playing a healer.  Should one not get rewards cause the other skill set is different?  And same thing for the mindset.  I don't understand why it's okay to say no you don't get rewarded for pvping, cause I don't like your choice method of pvp.  That's just ludicrous. 

49 minutes ago, Weswhitebore said:

No. Leave the GSF players alone in their bubble that has nothing to do with real pvp.  They require vastly different skillsets but also, more importantly, vastly different mindsets. You can sit in a gunship all game and hit people across the map, these gunships can run away and have no intention of fighting you. In real pvp, you're gonna have to fight someone eventually unless you hide off in the corner somewhere.

 

That's a lot of hard work for something that is likely not to be met with much positivity.

 

Real pvp?  My, my aren't you the elitist. Gunships can be killed just like any other ship, they aren't very durable and have fairly low fuel capacity compared to the fighter or scout to really make the escape once you close the distance, and the fighter can take a hit or two on the way there. The Gunship player has to be somewhat decent to hit a fast moving target, and distance / damage is their only real advantage. Your generalization of them is like me saying.... a sorc can blast you from a distance, while self healing, and then phasing out as they have no intention of fighting you. Or a sin can sneak up on you stun you damage you, and then stealth out, twice even in one fight if they have no intention of fighting you.  It's a gross over simplification that doesn't hold up to reality.  Doesn't mean sorcs or sins can't be killed, or dealt with, just like gunships can be killed or dealt with.  Seems like a skill issue honestly.

Anyways, I see it as pvp is pvp.  Why punish GSF players by not giving them pvp rewards when they're pvping?  Might not be the pvp that you like, but it's still pvp. 

Edited January 16, 2023 by Setta

[Nee-Elder]

1 hour ago, Setta said:

Yea can't speak for anyone else, but I really don't want to do 3 tracks, sorry. 

But remember:  PVP seasons track also incorporates & affects the regular  'Galactic Seasons'  track/rewards.

In other words, if you PVP  a lot, you're also somewhat advancing  Galactic Seasons  as well.

Furthermore, i might be  doing  a poor job of articulating my ideas here .... But i mean to say  PVP & GSF , while having 2 "separate" individual tracks ( with unique  ground vs. space rewards, respectively )  would still share the same TOKENS.

So you really wouldn't  have to  "do 3 tracks" .  Unless of course you wanted to.

Regardless,  as we both know,  BioWare is gonna do whatever the heck they feel is best anyway.  ( my hunch/guess:  Soon, GSF is gonna get their own  'seasons' template too.   )

1 hour ago, Setta said:

I'm still not seeing your point.  So what if the skill set is different?  I mean playing a tank in pvp is different than playing a healer. 

hmm,  i don't really know how else to say it , other than how i already said it earlier lol  ... umm...  Basically,  it's just like  different in almost every possible way, other than the general umbrella of  being Player versus Player .

Ground  as opposed to SPACE.

Mouse/keyboard  as opposed to JOYSTICK ( ideally ) .

I mean, even in games like  'SW: Battlefront' , the  difference between  ground & space is obvious, no?

There's just no way that i can see  BioWare ever  combining  normal ground PVP with space GSF.  ( which btw  isn't a bad thing imo )