Bioware we need to talk about Warzone Medals

[krackcommando]

19 minutes ago, Blakinik said:

I don't get to pick which PvP game so I get stuck playing some random map of the day.

This is a really great point I want to highlight.

The most frustrating thing to me about the deserter debuff is that the maps are "random" or, at least, completely out of the players' hands. a lot of ppl hate huttball. a lot of ppl love huttball. it's a very polarizing game. I, for one, think Quesh is a garbage map. Vandin and the Pit are fine except for being easy to cheese with modern class abilities, but the maps are playable.

You couldn't pay me to play OPG. the RNG involved in that map is infuriating. the learning curve is way way way beyond the level of game play that can be expected of "regular" players (many like the person I've quoted above) who literally flood the queues because they're chasing GS quests/rewards.

getting thrown into a map you don't like is very frustrating, but what's more frustrating is getting thrown into the same map two - three - even four times in a row. I know it's unreasonable to expect the matchmaker to micro manage this, but for the love of all that is good and holy in the world, just let players leave and find another map.

I despise the quitter debuff. but it would reasonable if everything surrounding it didn't make it so draconian. I'm speaking specifically of map choice.

here's my exasperated whiny line: I cannot fathom how/why BW would concoct a quitter debuff, let alone something that stacks so egregiously, when players are offered zero choice with regard to the map that they are queuing to play. what's the rationale here?

[streunekatze]

yeah I was trying to finish of my objectives for pvp season yesterday and in the end there was the "get 8 or more medals in a single warzone 4 times) I needed two more 8 medal warzones and it took forever, I was lucky enough that some friends from my guild helped me get them, bye not playing the objectives themselves but helping me to do them (I was killed off too often too fast the moment I came out of stealth)

With the way we earn medals right now I only got more and more frustrated with pvp.

oh and we had that one pvp match, we wear winning, but the other team started to just band together and kept throwing the ball from one person to the next not moving and not really doing anything else.

 

Edited December 20, 2022 by streunekatze

[Katushe]

6 minutes ago, streunekatze said:

oh and we had that one pvp match, we wear winning, but the other team started to just band together and kept throwing the ball from one person to the next not moving and not really doing anything else.

Now, that is a good idea of a medal in Huttball. Number of passes given/received. Bronze, silver, gold levels. 5-10-15 passes.

[Pandoras_Jar]

11 hours ago, Shabir_Dhillon said:

Hi, thanks for the feedback on the PVP medals. We are keeping an eye on this thread for feedback and are always looking for ways we can improve the medal system.

One of our goals was to encourage players to play objectives in Warzones and get rewarded for them. An example of that is planting the bomb giving an additional medal along with attacker points. 

Another goal is to discourage players from number farming in Warzones. This is why certain medals were removed and additional ones were added in other areas like objective interactions and attacker and defender points. 

Lastly, we want players to feel as if medals are rewarding to get, but we are always looking to adjust the current medals based on feedback. 

We are reading feedback about medals being difficult to gain for the losing team along with being unable to complete enough objectives. This appears to be holding true for stalemate matches, as well. We will review your feedback and compare it to our data to determine the adjustments we may need to make. We will also look into damage, healing, and protection and make adjustments with those as needed.

Thank you for taking the time to write such detailed feedback and we will be keeping an eye on this thread for more feedback.

Happy Holidays,
Shabir Dhillon

Thank you for the response! 

Here is some further feedback in regard to specific Warzone Maps (just as some examples) and getting attacker and defender points.

Huttball

It's been my experience (and other players as well) that the only way to actually get medals is to score (ideally more than once). Even you help carry the ball part of the way then pass it or heal a ball carrier, you are not getting any or (very little) attacker points. 

Yavin Ruins

Yavin is an interesting one. I've had two similar but different Yavin matches. In the first match, my team got mid pretty early on in the match and held it. I stayed in mid as there was a trickle of enemy players coming in. So by the end of the match I had fairly high defense medal count, the highest I've gotten since 7.2 launched. Later on, I had another Yavin match where the enemy team got mid pretty early on. I kept going into mid to fight and was staying alive for a decent amounts of time yet barely got any attacker points (I got the basic attacker medal, that's it). 

TLDR attacker points aren't easily earned in Yavin Ruins.

Ancient Hypergate

I've had a few Hypergates now where most fighting was done at pylons both controlled by my team or the enemy team. In all scenarios, I got barely get any attacker or defender points even though I was fighting right on the pylon. Apparently the one sure way to get points is to grab orbs.

Further Comments

There's definitely some inconsistencies in regards to how attacker and defender points are being rewarded. Players assisting with objectives are not getting points like we used to. Only the player who plants the bomb on the door, scores in Huttball etc. gets the points. If you want to further encourage objective play, you need to ensure those who assist also get some points as well. This is currently not happening across almost all maps. 

I guess all we have to go on as players is our experience from before and after 7.2 launch. There is definitely a contrast in regards to earning attacker and defender points. Perhaps it would be beneficial for us to understand how it is intended that we get attacker and defender points in 7.2?

• Should players in close proximity to a player planting a bomb for example get some attacker points?
• Should players who help carry the ball or heal the ball carrier get attacker points if a player end up scoring due to their efforts?
• Should players in close proximity to an enemy node or pylon get attacker points?

Most players would say yes to all three. All three of examples are how things worked pre 7.2 launch.

[AlainaFlute]

On 12/19/2022 at 11:44 AM, Shabir_Dhillon said:

Another goal is to discourage players from number farming in Warzones.

Look, I get it. Speaking as one that likes to both farm objectives as well as numbers, this nerf to medals still won't change my gameplay. Sometimes I go in totally wanting to play objectives. Sometimes, I just want to farm my numbers and lock in my rotation. It's difficult to constantly want to farm objectives when we haven't had a real new map in quite a few years. Just sayin'

Would love to have a Total Death Match style map like what they have in GSF. Arenas is not quite the same.

[Taminara]

And top it off with the medals, they aren't even being counted properly. I'll be showing that I have X number of medals in a match but when the match is over, it will have given me less than that. Last night, my last match, I had managed to achieve 11 medals but I only received 8 to my count. So not only did I not get credit for the extra medals earned, I also didn't get the bonus count you're supposed to get for hitting 8 or more. 

I honestly don't know how this is going to get fixed or improved but I don't care for the changes and it just adds to my general negativity toward the greater grinding trend that I see happening in almost every aspect of the game, not just PvP. 

[VegaMist]

On 12/19/2022 at 8:44 AM, Shabir_Dhillon said:

Hi, thanks for the feedback on the PVP medals. We are keeping an eye on this thread for feedback and are always looking for ways we can improve the medal system.

One of our goals was to encourage players to play objectives in Warzones and get rewarded for them. An example of that is planting the bomb giving an additional medal along with attacker points. 

Another goal is to discourage players from number farming in Warzones. This is why certain medals were removed and additional ones were added in other areas like objective interactions and attacker and defender points. 

Lastly, we want players to feel as if medals are rewarding to get, but we are always looking to adjust the current medals based on feedback. 

We are reading feedback about medals being difficult to gain for the losing team along with being unable to complete enough objectives. This appears to be holding true for stalemate matches, as well. We will review your feedback and compare it to our data to determine the adjustments we may need to make. We will also look into damage, healing, and protection and make adjustments with those as needed.

Thank you for taking the time to write such detailed feedback and we will be keeping an eye on this thread for more feedback.

Happy Holidays,
Shabir Dhillon

Thank you for the response. Wanted to address quick-win medals. The only ways quick matches happen are 1) one team throws the game (win trades), 2) one team is overwhelmingly dominating the other (analogy would be, a boxer beating up a toddler and then getting an award for it), or 3) get extremely lucky (which is very rare). With two evenly-matched teams where players know what they are doing, the battle will be long and close . In other words, minimum effort matches (win trades and boxer/toddler type) gain max rewards, and maximum effort ones (intense battles between evenly-matched teams) earn minimum rewards. Do you see the problem?

Edited December 21, 2022 by VegaMist

[Blakinik]

3 hours ago, VegaMist said:

2) one team is overwhelmingly dominating the other (analogy would be, a boxer beating up a toddler and then getting an award for it)

Isn't this the problem with 7.2 PvP in a nutshell?  Unless you are a reg and pre-form your team, its a steam roll session unless its a mass chaos event of utter damage mid-field.  Though I mentally pictured Mike Tyson punching the hell out of some screaming toddler brat when I read that comment.

[VegaMist]

3 hours ago, Blakinik said:

Isn't this the problem with 7.2 PvP in a nutshell?  Unless you are a reg and pre-form your team, its a steam roll session unless its a mass chaos event of utter damage mid-field.  Though I mentally pictured Mike Tyson punching the hell out of some screaming toddler brat when I read that comment.

Isn't that essentially what happens when 6-8 person premade is matched against random pugs? And I bet some of the pugs are screaming - we just can't hear them through the screen.

[sGroggy]

4 hours ago, VegaMist said:

bet some of the pugs are screaming - we just can't hear them through the screen

Can confirm, I am.

[Weswhitebore]

16 hours ago, Taminara said:

I had managed to achieve 11 medals but I only received 8 to my count. So not only did I not get credit for the extra medals earned, I also didn't get the bonus count you're supposed to get for hitting 8 or more. 

I honestly don't know how this is going to get fixed or improved but I don't care for the changes and it just adds to my general negativity toward the greater grinding trend that I see happening in almost every aspect of the game, not just PvP. 

Record that or take pictures, upload it somewhere, and report it as a bug. When you report it put the link in your report. Jackie tends to look in bug reports often.

Edited December 21, 2022 by Weswhitebore

[Weswhitebore]

8 hours ago, VegaMist said:

I bet some of the pugs are screaming - we just can't hear them through the screen.

They are, but instead of hearing them I can see it in the chat, lol.

[cacophonycat]

Thanks for bringing this up, I largely play as a Corruption Sorc in PvP, and I find that at best I may make 8 medals IF it's either Void Star & I'm a Defender on the door that's left largely alone aside from a momentary push, or in Hypergates when I'm either AGAIN the "Defender" when the Pylon is left alone or running Orbs to the Pylon. Since I can't' make enough damage to get the medals via kills, my other option is to heal.

HOWEVER, no WZ is just straight heals. I'm not able to sit in a tidy little rotation, when the whole objective of -my- role in a WZ is still: Help my teammates stay alive as long as possible while trying to complete objectives. SO if I don't get medals for ONLY healing, I have to split my time between obectives and heals which can drop my HPS by half for the tota match leaving me with FAR FEWER medals if I split my focus than if I either just sat on a door the entire VoidStar or sat on a Pylon,  OR I do nothing but heal which often means I'm NOT grabbing a Huttball, nor Defending, nor attacking. I'm standing far enough away to minimize AoE melee damage, while chucking heals as best I can in a short rotation while using CCs as necessary to mitigate any lag or GCD.

So usually I DO end up splitting my efforts because I can NEVER play ONLY heals, since that likely means NO medals or only maybe 2-4 medals at best, ESPECIALLY when I lose a match. 

I'm a midde of the road player. I'm almost never on the top, but only on bad connection days do I ever end up in the bottom.

Though I've 'only been playing PvP seriously since the start of GS 3, I find it taking twice as long with the new PvP track to get anywhere, and even then at best if I do both weekly missions (one per affiliation) I'm only getting about 20 daily resource matrixes.

No matter how many times I do the Daily, it's not giving me the daily resource matrixes. So now not only am I earning fewer medals in 7.2 at times, I'm not able to gear up fast enough as I'm limited to a total of 3 upgrades if I'm only using PvP for Daily Resource Matrix. This is mostly because if I only have a win rate of 50%, I'm not just doing 12 matches on one character, but something closer to needing 30 matches to meet the all three non-Arena Objectives.  

30 matches is not worth it for 20 Daily Resource Matrixes when I can do two weeklies for Planets (CZ-198 & Ziost) in less time and be better off in terms of my Daily Resource Matrixes and Tech Frags, to where I can just stay a solo player and gear better. 

 

[AmorphLex]

So only toxic trolls like minecroft tarkin deny obvious thing - bioware screw up itself with pvp again.

Instead thousand of words - 

https://ibb.co/HVzKbVk

[Weswhitebore]

I have an performance that should've easily been 8 medals the other day that is hard to replicate. Before 7.2 it would've earned me at least 10 medals if not more, the person ontop of me even more so. This was a well balanced performance of Objectives, DPS, and kills. Yet somehow someone with only 2600 objective (towards the bottom) and the most damage have 7 medals, even more than me. I thought the medals were suppose to discourage damage farming, this doesn't seem to discourage it at all.  https://ibb.co/T1tGWpG

[krackcommando]

2 hours ago, AmorphLex said:

So only toxic trolls

gonna throw this out there even though it will probably fall on deaf ears: the word "toxic" is overused and abused on this forum and in public in general.

it's very close to becoming "like." like, you like, wanna be like that stereotypical high school girl who, like, says "like" like...every phrase because...like...it's what people say?

seriously. toxic is a good word, but it's not the only adjective in the English language, and it's not a catch-all for whatever you don't like....like.

[Tungstenses]

 

https://imgur.com/vuC9nLJ

Literally no one in this match got 8 medals, 1-2 huttball (no surprise...) match that went to TIME, and it was one big waste of time for everyone. Like really, guy with 7,550 objectives has 4 medals, dude with 8,850 has 6. I had a performance that would get me around 8-10 medals, got 4, sucks being a sniper because we can't get the healing medals.

Way to go bioware, the execution is in anthesis to your intent. Y'all caused this, and hope will make changes in the future. 

[VegaMist]

From the last two days playing 8v8: a) the waiting time has increased, b) healers became a rarity (on average, 1 healer per 2-3 matches on the side I was on) which is no surprise considering new system punishes them - most people join as DPS, c) in a losing match, way more people give up early and go sit on the nod (in order to get an extra medal or two) rather than try to turn the tide (which earns no reward). Expect the trends to continue and get progressively worse unless adjustments are made. To gain most reward under the new system, one has to do little bit of everything which goes against both: playing your class and playing the match. It creates a dilemma to prioritize either gaining medals or winning the game - and these two goals are in a contradiction under the new system (because if everyone just tried to check mark every thing that gains a medal, they'd have to throw away any potential game-winning strategy that has no medal attached as a reward). Under the old system, I never cared much about medals - just winning the matches - yet, the medals actually reflected the effort and one could tell who was contributing and who wasn't. Under the new system, we are forced to care, yet the system, more often than not, doesn't reflect individual contribution accurately - seen way too many healers who kept the whole team alive earning 3-4 medals total, players passing/scoring/opening/capping and essentially winning the game with 4-5 medals, and tanks with millions in protection with 3-5 medals in a winning match.

[AmorphLex]

On 22.12.2022 at 23:34, krackcommando said:

собираюсь выбросить это туда, даже если оно, вероятно, останется глухим: слово «токсичный» слишком часто используется и злоупотребляется на этом форуме и в обществе в целом.

это очень близко к тому, чтобы стать "подобным". типа, тебе нравится, хочешь быть похожей на ту стереотипную старшеклассницу, которая, типа, говорит "вроде" как... каждую фразу, потому что... типа... это то, что говорят люди?

серьезно. «токсичный» — хорошее слово, но это не единственное прилагательное в английском языке, и оно не подходит для обозначения того, что вам не нравится… нравится.

If he is constantly repeat same phrase how pvp changes good and you all must have to use or drop pvp how you calling this then? And how all of this ever related to problem with medals? 🤦‍♀️  if you don't like this topic stop spamming here

I just can run into arenas with facerolling keyboard and got more medals for lose than for in war zone for win   ot speaking about 10, 12, 14! Medals all the time for success contrary to 7-8 in wz in very rare cases...

Edited December 24, 2022 by AmorphLex