GSF Vote Kick need to be fixed

[winpersec]

I have a thousand  and a half matches across 5 servers under my belt and I wasn't kicked once.

Y'all kicked guys and gals doing something wrong.

[Nee-Elder]

34 minutes ago, winpersec said:

Y'all kicked guys and gals doing something wrong.

Did it ever occur to you that perhaps the algorithm gets it wrong sometimes too?

'Code' is never perfect, since it was written by flawed humans.

34 minutes ago, winpersec said:

I have a thousand  and a half matches across 5 servers under my belt and I wasn't kicked once.

Cool story.  Well, i've been here since 2011 beta and therefore have been here since GSF first began,  so i've run probably twice as many matches as you claim to have run ( only 3 servers for me though ) and guess what:  I've only been kicked TWICE , most recently as explained very specifically in my prior posts.

So yeah, your umm "data" means absolutely nothing and your umm "flex" certainly doesn't discount the experiences or edge-case circumstances described by other players.

Because see your experiences are your own.

Conversely, my facts are for everyone ( including BioWare ) since i provided screenshots & proof.

Thanks for posting/adding so constructively to the discussion though.

Edited March 7, 2023 by Nee-Elder
Reason: hyperlink even though the dude won't bother to read it anyway lol

[winpersec]

10 hours ago, Nee-Elder said:

Did it ever occur to you that perhaps the algorithm gets it wrong sometimes too?

'Code' is never perfect, since it was written by flawed humans.

Cool story.  Well, i've been here since 2011 beta and therefore have been here since GSF first began,  so i've run probably twice as many matches as you claim to have run ( only 3 servers for me though ) and guess what:  I've only been kicked TWICE , most recently as explained very specifically in my prior posts.

So yeah, your umm "data" means absolutely nothing and your umm "flex" certainly doesn't discount the experiences or edge-case circumstances described by other players.

Because see your experiences are your own.

Conversely, my facts are for everyone ( including BioWare ) since i provided screenshots & proof.

Thanks for posting/adding so constructively to the discussion though.

oi, would be great if you provide a link to your screenshot

and helpful enough if you post some of your nicknames to help us active pilots remember if we ever seen you around

[Nee-Elder]

10 hours ago, winpersec said:

and helpful enough if you post some of your nicknames to help us active pilots remember if we ever seen you around

Don't worry , you'll see me well enough on the leaderboards....and as i fly past your destructed scraps..

Take care, "active" pilot!

---

On-topic:  the automatic 'vote kick'  algorithm just simply needs to be tweaked a bit, to account for other types of contributing circumstances.  That's all.  No biggie.

Edited March 8, 2023 by Nee-Elder
Reason: All too easy getting new fans LOL

[philwil]

Again...there is nothing wrong with non contributing system.

 

Number One:  The "non-contributing message" is automatic.

Number Two: It does NOT, I repeat, DOES NOT automatically boot you from a match.  Never has, never will.  That would be wonderful though.

Number Three:  "Non-contributing" message does not appear out of thin air.  You have to physically not touch an enemy for a minute and a half, or not be on a captured node.

                            The time frame is approximately a minute and a half or so, from your last damage, or spawn in.

Number Four:  In order to get kicked for "non-contributing", four team mates have to vote to kick you from the match.  So, if you are habitual non-contributor, you might get the quick      

kick from people who dont like leaches. 

 

Number Five:  You can get "non-contributing", even if you killed 20, had 125k damage, etc.  You just have to not do anything for about a minute and a half.  You do not get auto kicked.  You have to be voted off.  Kinda like Survivor.

Number Six: The only other explanation for your issue is, that you got server kicked.  If you get kicked from a match, it doesnt kick you to server select screen.  Just a FYI.  I dont know how familiar you are with the game.  So, this is a viable possibility.  I have gotten server kicked.  Its basically a link death, like form the old dial up days.  But it does, and has happened on these servers.

So, yeah.  Thats how that works.  Not the way you say it does.

Also, some of you sound like you need to do the tutorial.  I know it sucks, but you get the idea of a DOM and how it works.  In your hangar in game, click the question mark.  It takes you to your own match, no one else is there.  Mess around in there a bit.  It isnt great, but it helps maybe.

 

On nodes, you have to be like, right on it.  If you are above the fins that stick up on node, you arent close enough.  Thus, you will get a non contributing.  You have to be on a node, or do some kind of damage/interaction.

[Nee-Elder]

40 minutes ago, philwil said:

Again...there is nothing wrong with non contributing system.

Number Five:  You can get "non-contributing", even if you killed 20, had 125k damage, etc.  You just have to not do anything for about a minute and a half. 

Sorry but i disagree with you...slightly.  ( you realize it's totally OK for 2 people to have differing opinions , right ? )

In my opinion, the term "contributing" needs to = more than just simply  fire a couple blaster bolts to do "damage" every 90 seconds.  ( i'm talking in Deathmatch btw, not Satellites  )

Why is it so hard for people like you to accept  nuance?

Why do people like you always goto "just L2P!"  when certain specific circumstances  ( albeit edge cases )  clearly exist for other people sometimes?

Why can't people like you just admit the current GSF "contributing" system isn't perfect?

What's so wrong with wanting GSF to get a bit better by just tweaking that *kick*  requirement just a tiny bit ?

And lastly, why do people like you always accuse people like me of "making stuff up"  or  "misunderstanding"  just because what is being described didn't actually happen to YOU?

*In 10 years of GSF matches, i've only been vote-kicked twice.  Just FYI , before you go assuming more about me & my skills.

Edited March 9, 2023 by Nee-Elder
Reason: not like any of this debate matters anyway, since BioWare acts like GSF doesn't even exist lol ugh

[philwil]

It isnt broken.  At all.  You are just new to it.  Its how it works, and has always worked.

And why do we, as veterans who have played this game since inception think new people misunderstand/misinterpret whats going on for them?

Here are some examples:

Im in TDM, being chased.  I grab a purple power up, for engine.  It boosts engine regen and speed and such.

Someone in Gen chat of the match told everyone to report me, because its impossible to go from one side of the map to the other without stopping.  So, I was "cheating".

In another case, I was on a gunship and I had feed back shield on.  Someone attacked me, the feed back shield hit them and killed them.  "I saw what you did!! Im reporting you!  There is no way you can shoot from the side without cheating"

Something also as simple as a guy has bad internet, so he is hopping around the map, willy nilly.  Someone is screaming he is cheating, because he is "transporting".

A gunship has Damage Overcharge and kills someone with one shot.  "You are cheating!  You arent supposed to be able to one shot and kill"

You see where I am going with all this, right?  There are more, if you'd like a list.

Because we have seen it before.

And, there is no auto kick.  In your case, might it be a bug?  Yes.  I mean, they put bugs in all the time.  Like seriously.  The Tier 4 and 5 deselect bug anybody?  LOL!

Just trying to let you know, how it is supposed to operate.  And has operated.

Personally I wouldnt mind it auto kicking non contributors.

[Nee-Elder]

16 minutes ago, philwil said:

It isnt broken.  At all. 

i never once used the word "broken" .  Not once.

i merely , in my personal OPINION, believe the current "contributing" definition could use a tweak or adjustment , to better account for certain situations ( which would presumably avoid punishing the wrong types of players who aren't  AFK'ing so much as  earnestly trying to contribute in a more nuanced fashion at certain random time periods based on mitigating factors ) .

16 minutes ago, philwil said:

  In your case, might it be a bug? 

Possibly  and probably. ( hence why BioWare now has my screenshot & intel )

Edited March 9, 2023 by Nee-Elder

[philwil]

well, good luck with that.  lord knows when they do something somewhere else, they spring another bug leak

[HrRav]

15 hours ago, philwil said:

Number Four:  In order to get kicked for "non-contributing", four team mates have to vote to kick you from the match.  So, if you are habitual non-contributor, you might get the quick      

kick from people who dont like leaches. 

It certainly was like this before, but I think that Bioware must have lowered the number of votes that are needed to kick someone. Before 7.2 it was very rare that someone got kicked---usually it took repeated messages in the ops chat before enough players hade voted. Nowadays, I mark someone who has been non-contributing for a while and they get kicked within a minute or so without any need for convincing the rest of the team to take action.

[Toraak]

21 minutes ago, HrRav said:

It certainly was like this before, but I think that Bioware must have lowered the number of votes that are needed to kick someone. Before 7.2 it was very rare that someone got kicked---usually it took repeated messages in the ops chat before enough players hade voted. Nowadays, I mark someone who has been non-contributing for a while and they get kicked within a minute or so without any need for convincing the rest of the team to take action.

It is still 4. I tested it when 7.2 came out on a known AFK'er. Tried it with 2 votes (no kick), 3 Votes (still no kick), and finally the normal 4 votes (player got kicked).

 

So if your getting kicked from a GSF match, you are A) getting the non contributing marker for not being under a sat, or doing damage to any other player,  and B) Also getting 4 people on your team to vote to kick you out for it. 

 

What I have noticed however is that people are tired of all of the Leeches in GSF, and are far more willing to get rid of them by the vote kick then they used to be. All those people that only do GSF as leeches for Tech Frags, Conquest or Seasons have pushed many others to be quick on voting out AFK'ers. We want people to participate in the matches, not make the rest of us that want to be playing GSF have to work 10 times harder to overcome the Leeches doing nothing.

Edited March 9, 2023 by Toraak

[HrRav]

16 minutes ago, Toraak said:

It is still 4. I tested it when 7.2 came out on a known AFK'er. Tried it with 2 votes (no kick), 3 Votes (still no kick), and finally the normal 4 votes (player got kicked).

 

So if your getting kicked from a GSF match, you are A) getting the non contributing marker for not being under a sat, or doing damage to any other player,  and B) Also getting 4 people on your team to vote to kick you out for it. 

 

What I have noticed however is that people are tired of all of the Leeches in GSF, and are far more willing to get rid of them by the vote kick then they used to be. All those people that only do GSF as leeches for Tech Frags, Conquest or Seasons have pushed many others to be quick on voting out AFK'ers. We want people to participate in the matches, not make the rest of us that want to be playing GSF have to work 10 times harder to overcome the Leeches doing nothing.

Ok, if it has been test then I withdraw my theory. I might have been confusing correlation and causality here. (Which is slightly embarrasing as that is something I warn students not to do...)

[Ramalina]

4 hours ago, Toraak said:

So if your getting kicked from a GSF match, you are A) getting the non contributing marker for not being under a sat, or doing damage to any other player,  and B) Also getting 4 people on your team to vote to kick you out for it.

It turns out that auto-kick really is a thing the other thread discussing this with my test results.   I was very surprised.   I definitely didn't get the memo on this one whenever the change happened.

[tinythinker]

Not saying whether the system is good or bad, as I have only played a very limited number of matches, but it is easy for some people who are new to this mode to be counted as inactive. In the capture matches even if I try and fail to land enough hits often enough, I can still help capture and defend by staying close to an objective and blasting drones as well as the stray enemy player that gets too close. In DM I fly towards enemies but my turning and targeting still sucks. I want to hit something for fun, not just to avoid being marked as inactive. The enemy fly circles around me and kill me quickly because I guess I stand out as a noob. I still accumulate inactivity points or whatever it is though from missing my shots in some dogfights even though I aim for the little circle not the ship itself. Recently I literally got lost in an enclosed space chasing someone (who got away) and tried to fly out slowly so as not to die and give the enemy points from "self-destructing", but it counted as inactivity because everyone was fighting in a new spot by the time I got out and I couldn't get within range fast enough.

I would suggest a change like "player fired within X distance of enemy target" to count as activity, but I won't as it would probably increase lag and also because I doubt Bioware would bother anyway as more experienced players likely don't have this issue. It really wouldn't be worth the effort to do it but it would help separate learners/lower skills players from leeches. I seriously doubt the game has the population for it (especially when we only look at the starfighter sub-population), but a noob queue would be awesome (i.e. for those who have played fewer than X matches).

I know there is a leech problem, though, because even in the low number of starfighter matches I have played I've seen people crashing over and over and over in quick succession several times, but I just want to learn by doing. It's a shame that things apparently got so bad 1) Bioware felt they had to put in an inactivity tracker and 2) it has made people quick to kick. Not complaining about other players doing that, as I understand their frustration, but it makes me want to do starfighter less since a kick locks me out of every other type of queue as well. It's only happened a couple of times, but yes, every time I play I'm really trying to contribute no matter what the activity meter says.

[Roogun]

A separate queue for new players would be really appreciated. I'm new to GSF, struggling with the movement and still learning. It's incredibly frustrating to get kicked from a match (deathmatch) where I really try to hit something and not getting shot down constantly by expert players. You don't get new players with these mechanics in play.

[Lars_Ariva]

On 3/21/2023 at 6:47 PM, ronin_chi_lao said:

It is down. It was posted on their Twitter account. 

 

On 3/9/2023 at 1:13 PM, Toraak said:

What I have noticed however is that people are tired of all of the Leeches in GSF, and are far more willing to get rid of them by the vote kick then they used to be. All those people that only do GSF as leeches for Tech Frags, Conquest or Seasons have pushed many others to be quick on voting out AFK'ers. We want people to participate in the matches, not make the rest of us that want to be playing GSF have to work 10 times harder to overcome the Leeches doing nothing.

I used to pay a little more attention to AFK'ers (marked by system with the yellow circle with slash).  Today I was in a DM and one player was persistently marked as not contributing.   Honestly, I got irritated, but I was too busy contributing or trying to.  Our team did win, my contribution was just that, a contribution.  At the end of the match, I checked the damage score on the AFK'er, and he had zero damage.  It would be nice if there was a reasonable system that would allow us to better ID someone who is not participating that gave the needed information to allow us to make an effective decision.  Otherwise, I am apt to leave the person be, because I am too busy to take the time to show them to the door.

 

[Lars_Ariva]

On 4/20/2023 at 11:56 AM, Roogun said:

A separate queue for new players would be really appreciated. I'm new to GSF, struggling with the movement and still learning. It's incredibly frustrating to get kicked from a match (deathmatch) where I really try to hit something and not getting shot down constantly by expert players. You don't get new players with these mechanics in play.

The tutorial is bad.  I agree with this sentiment completely.  But, I don't see this coming to be. I wish it would.