Someone Convince Me 7.0 Was a Good Thing

[akdonkey]

7.0 ruined Everything especially Gear progression. They had great classes and gearing instead they thought redesigning the game into a mess. The UI upgrades are terrible. The upcoming map stuff you can already do. Pull the map up full screen and still run around. That just tells me they got new people that don't know how to play the game trying to add things that are already there they just don't understand how it works. So, they got to change it around to crap.

[Nyghtfal]

Just dinged 21 on Dromund Kaas and now I'm done with the game.  I can't go another 10 levels without Affliction or Crushing Darkness - Affliction was always my opener under 6.X - I'm not looking forward to another 47 levels without Whirlwind, I miss insta-casting Chain Lightning, and the first choices we get to make at 23 don't look at all interesting.

Simply put, I feel like a wiiffle bat compared to what I could by now under 6.X, and would never feel inclined to try an alt under 7.0.

[YaanaOhtar]

I don't know how other feeling but after doing a hard Master FP and the drop are blue, I am feeling blue.

[lukeisjedi]

On 11/26/2022 at 11:23 PM, akdonkey said:

7.0 ruined Everything especially Gear progression. They had great classes and gearing instead they thought redesigning the game into a mess. The UI upgrades are terrible. The upcoming map stuff you can already do. Pull the map up full screen and still run around. That just tells me they got new people that don't know how to play the game trying to add things that are already there they just don't understand how it works. So, they got to change it around to crap.

I disagree. I play, ops, fps and story and I have no issues with the changes. I understand some do but I like what they've  done so far.

[raikme]

On 11/25/2022 at 3:07 AM, Hadsil said:

I really don't get it with all the hate. Maybe it's because I only play Story. 

Yes, that's exactly why you don't get it.

[Hadsil]

On 11/28/2022 at 9:59 PM, raikme said:

Yes, that's exactly why you don't get it.

Then you understand the hyperventilating seething hate is not universal. I also like outfitter now includes weapons, accepting it was by update not at first launch. Playing a Jedi/Sith I never wanted to use a vibrosword drop despite it being way better than my current lightsaber because I'm a Jedi/Sith. I wield lightsabers. Now I can put a lightsaber into outfit and use the vibrosword. The game shows me with the lightsaber.

 

I can understand not liking delayed gratification of getting powers you used to get early, but I think they were going for making leveling feel more special. You're not getting all the best stuff early just to get upgrades later. However, leveling happens fast. I'm several levels higher than planet. I only do class story and planet story, once in a while a side quest but usually not, and have not used the experience boost. To keep myself interested I don't binge play. Most of the time I only do one area of a planet per time I play, log out, then get back to it when I feel like it for the next area. Could be a couple of hours, the next day, a couple of days. This way I'm not boring myself repeating the same story.

 

Point is I'm still having a blast playing the game.

[ZUHFB]

5 hours ago, Hadsil said:

I'm several levels higher than planet. I only do class story and planet story, once in a while a side quest but usually not, and have not used the experience boost. To keep myself interested I don't binge play.

665 posts - not max level

okayge

[juliushorst]

9 hours ago, Hadsil said:

I can understand not liking delayed gratification of getting powers you used to get early, but I think they were going for making leveling feel more special.

The only "special" it feels to me is the special that is polite way of saying "suffering from disability".

[Hadsil]

On 11/30/2022 at 6:44 AM, ZUHFB said:

665 posts - not max level

okayge

What is this supposed to mean? How is the number of posts I've made to the Forums at all relevant to anything? As for max level, I like to rotate between my characters not that it's any of your business. I don't finish everything before moving on to the next one but find a convenient stopping point. That said, I have two characters that have finished everything in Story currently published. 7 that have finished everything except the latest update of Manaan and defeating Malgus. They had finished everything that was Story but the new update came out while I was busy with other characters. 7 that have finished Fallen Empire. That's 16 characters, two of each class, one of each subclass (before I switched out combat styles for the ones I wasn't liking.) I now have a 17th character. I'm currently on my third Jedi Knight doing class story, which is what I was talking about in my post.

17 characters playing roughly the same story 17 times. Yes, I don't binge play to avoid boredom. Once I finish this Class Story I will move on to my Sith Warrior. Finish the Story with my main one. Move on to my second Sith Warrior starting with Iokath to finish everything published. If a new Story update happens I'll stop at defeating Malgus to keep him even with the others. Then I'll start a third Sith Warrior and play Class Story again. Repeat for each class. I haven't decided yet if I will move beyond Class Story with my third set of characters. For now I'm thinking I will, but I do worry that I will eventually become bored with Story to play Ilum/Revan/Eternal Throne etc. for the 17th to 24th times. If that happens, if I'm finally bored enough to stop playing, I would have literal years of playing this game having a grand old time.

If that bothers you, tough bantha pudu.

 

 

[ZUHFB]

2 hours ago, Hadsil said:

What is this supposed to mean? How is the number of posts I've made to the Forums at all relevant to anything? As for max level, I like to rotate between my characters not that it's any of your business. I don't finish everything before moving on to the next one but find a convenient stopping point. That said, I have two characters that have finished everything in Story currently published. 7 that have finished everything except the latest update of Manaan and defeating Malgus. They had finished everything that was Story but the new update came out while I was busy with other characters. 7 that have finished Fallen Empire. That's 16 characters, two of each class, one of each subclass (before I switched out combat styles for the ones I wasn't liking.) I now have a 17th character. I'm currently on my third Jedi Knight doing class story, which is what I was talking about in my post.

17 characters playing roughly the same story 17 times. Yes, I don't binge play to avoid boredom. Once I finish this Class Story I will move on to my Sith Warrior. Finish the Story with my main one. Move on to my second Sith Warrior starting with Iokath to finish everything published. If a new Story update happens I'll stop at defeating Malgus to keep him even with the others. Then I'll start a third Sith Warrior and play Class Story again. Repeat for each class. I haven't decided yet if I will move beyond Class Story with my third set of characters. For now I'm thinking I will, but I do worry that I will eventually become bored with Story to play Ilum/Revan/Eternal Throne etc. for the 17th to 24th times. If that happens, if I'm finally bored enough to stop playing, I would have literal years of playing this game having a grand old time.

If that bothers you, tough bantha pudu.

Okay, then let me explain it to you: 

I don't care how you play the game, it's your decision and I don't mean to critique that at all. What I am saying is that this post is about class changes, balancing, ability choices etc. and the general unhappiness about them (which I do not share, I very much like it). Then you said that you play story and you like the changes, changes that do not affect you even a bit. Which was referred to by the poster that said "you don't get it BECAUSE you only play story". You make the point that you can beat all stories and be several levels up, which 1 has nothing to do with anything and 2 makes it obvious that you simply didn't get what this post is about. These changes do not affect story, and this is just not discussable. Probably could actually be afk and the companion would still win any fight. 

Instead of typing 665 forum posts the time could've been spend leveling and doing endgame and then you'd have understood this thread. Which was my point. 

[DWho]

7.0 was hit an miss. Primarily it was overhyped and it under delivered. Some of the "new" changes were a positive for some and ho-hum for others (I like the ability to switch a light side Sith to light side powers, but the second character class is something I'll probably never use - along with the loadouts tied to it). Turning the whole gearing and leveling system upside down from the previous version didn't sit well with a lot of players, though some clearly liked the changes. 7.0 launched with a broken story flashpoint as it's main piece of playable content (it still is broken, though the issues occur less frequently) and Bioware's slow response to "fixing" it turned off a lot of players. I have a generally positive view of the 7.1 content, though it remains to be seen if 7.2 content is more like 7.0 or 7.1.

I'd rank it as a general disappointment, but based on the previous "expansions" post KotET/KotFE, it wasn't unexpected. The biggest disappointment was that it launched with just about all of the bugs that were pointed out in PTS testing despite the countless hours people put in testing it (two rounds of testing at that - one before the delay in launch and one after). A lot of those issues still remain unresolved. I don't know if I'd rank it as the worst expansion, but it is in the running for that "title".

[Hadsil]

9 hours ago, ZUHFB said:

Okay, then let me explain it to you: 

I don't care how you play the game, it's your decision and I don't mean to critique that at all. What I am saying is that this post is about class changes, balancing, ability choices etc. and the general unhappiness about them (which I do not share, I very much like it). Then you said that you play story and you like the changes, changes that do not affect you even a bit. Which was referred to by the poster that said "you don't get it BECAUSE you only play story". You make the point that you can beat all stories and be several levels up, which 1 has nothing to do with anything and 2 makes it obvious that you simply didn't get what this post is about. These changes do not affect story, and this is just not discussable. Probably could actually be afk and the companion would still win any fight. 

Instead of typing 665 forum posts the time could've been spend leveling and doing endgame and then you'd have understood this thread. Which was my point. 

I have been affected. Some characters lost abilities they had as with everyone else. Depending on class and ability I also have to choose between abilities when I used to have both. I also need to wait to gain abilities I used to have earlier. I do not question they bother people who enjoy endgame content. I'm allowed to express the changes didn't bother me, and it's probably because I only play Story.

Eternal Throne/Fallen Empire, now that was a major change for Story people when it happened. Ilum/Makeb/Revan hinted that's where it was going, but at least they were different stories based on Faction and Makeb had different quests. Fallen Empire made everyone play the same story and you lost Companions. My friend who introduced me to the game had quit because of it. He was a Story Player and raged quit for losing Class distinction. I joined when Theron's Sacrifice arc was the last Story content. I wasn't happy with the adjustment when I finally reached Fallen Empire, but I still enjoyed the Story and obviously didn't rage quit.

So yes, whatever changes 7.0 made did not affect Story players much, and for thread topic that is a reason why the changes were at least not a horrible experience to warrant quitting.

[OlBuzzard]

6 hours ago, DWho said:

7.0 was hit an miss. Primarily it was overhyped and it under delivered. Some of the "new" changes were a positive for some and ho-hum for others (I like the ability to switch a light side Sith to light side powers, but the second character class is something I'll probably never use - along with the loadouts tied to it). Turning the whole gearing and leveling system upside down from the previous version didn't sit well with a lot of players, though some clearly liked the changes. 7.0 launched with a broken story flashpoint as it's main piece of playable content (it still is broken, though the issues occur less frequently) and Bioware's slow response to "fixing" it turned off a lot of players. I have a generally positive view of the 7.1 content, though it remains to be seen if 7.2 content is more like 7.0 or 7.1.

I'd rank it as a general disappointment, but based on the previous "expansions" post KotET/KotFE, it wasn't unexpected. The biggest disappointment was that it launched with just about all of the bugs that were pointed out in PTS testing despite the countless hours people put in testing it (two rounds of testing at that - one before the delay in launch and one after). A lot of those issues still remain unresolved. I don't know if I'd rank it as the worst expansion, but it is in the running for that "title".

Yeah ...  Pretty much!  Add to that the gearing mess ... and a couple other really disappointing items..

Now add to that the recent notification of the December events (and the number of items missing) ...  Oh my!  I really hate kicking someone when they are struggling like this... BUT IMO this is unquestionably a raised RED FLAG.

 

[akdonkey]

On 11/28/2022 at 3:36 PM, lukeisjedi said:

I disagree. I play, ops, fps and story and I have no issues with the changes. I understand some do but I like what they've  done so far.

I don't do OPs, I find they are too hard for most players. Perhaps even myself. I don't think it's fun researching online to find the proper and only rotation firing order that will win an Operation. I do enjoy a challenge to an extent. Flashpoints are ok they take too long in my opinion. I lose interest before I get to the end and sometimes get forced to walk away for a time.  At least For me.

[ZUHFB]

2 hours ago, akdonkey said:

I don't do OPs, I find they are too hard for most players

SM OPs certainly are not too hard, you do not need to know rotations, mechanics or anything. DF SM is faster than most FPs. And easier.

[Achnaattwo]

8 hours ago, akdonkey said:

Flashpoints are ok they take too long in my opinion. I lose interest before I get to the end and sometimes get forced to walk away for a time.  At least For me.

for me too,  sometimes it'll take me a few days to want to complete them, if I decide I want to complete it.  So I don;t do FP's any more

Just started doing OPs. As long as I have time to waste, I'll do one, may be a couple weeks apart, Just not a fan of the time it takes to do one (start to finish). I know I  can leave the ops , but I don't like (even if I don't make a difference) to leave the group in the middle of the mission.

[ReveredDead]

It wasn't. Period. 

[bluehufsa]

Well I cannot convince anyone, not even myself, about 7.0 being a good thing, because : 

1. after struggling to get the Apex Predator set, it became useless

2. implants have Concentrated Fire, not Apex Predator set bonus ( why?? )

3. each and every expansion, Mercenary gets more nerfs - are you trying to test my loyalty to Mandalore & to the profession? Because I will shout out loud, like Revan does in ToS : I WILL NEVER GIVE IN !! 🤣

4. what the .. flying D5 Mantis happened to Operative Healer?? is so weak now 😭

5. grind and more grind for gear! sorry but SWTOR is not my full time job, also got a family & a cat to feed! 🤣

6. Toborro's Courtyard! I actually enjoyed the " LFM TC SM via GF " announcements 😆

7. renown , DvL & amplifiers. 

8. skills removal, why was this necessary? why can't an Empire - born Mercenary play Trooper as his secondary class and have all the skills??

9. BOREDOM ! No one does anything else but DF, at least in 6.0 we had the renown farm and TC. 

 

Well not to be an absolute killjoy.. in 7.2 we have the upcoming Showdown on Ruhnuk . 

 

[akdonkey]

I'm convinced this is the worst thing to ever happen here. 

[OlBuzzard]

Perhaps with 7.20 coming out soon this will change.  I'm certain that more challenges lie ahead.  There always will be.  The real question then becomes ... Where do we go from here?

Sooo  ...  here's to 7.2 and the hope of a step in the right direction!

[Kendaric]

1 hour ago, OlBuzzard said:

Perhaps with 7.20 coming out soon this will change.  I'm certain that more challenges lie ahead.  There always will be.  The real question then becomes ... Where do we go from here?

Sooo  ...  here's to 7.2 and the hope of a step in the right direction!

I'm not getting my hopes up ...

> Still no additions to the crafting system (or an overhaul of it)

> Still no real improvement regarding gear acquisition

> More nerfs for the sake of "balancing"

 

[Jdast]

I'm slightly (note: only slightly) more optimistic than some of the posters here.

TL;DR: I'm hopeful to paraphrase Princess Leia. 7.0 was a disaster both in terms of game design philosophy and implementation, although I liked the story shift away from "OMG a SUPERWEAPON!", which actually started in Onslaught. I like the resource war aspect. Admittedly, I thought the pacing of the Malgus storyline could have been accelerated. While I won't go into it here, I also thought it was a very smart move for Bioware to capture the Mandalorian hype and incorporate that storyline as well. Anyone who disagrees with the last sentence should go to Reddit or Fleet and see all the Mando-oriented pics and players. 😹

I thought 7.0 was such a bug-ridden mess that I stopped playing and even unsubbed until there were changes in game design philosphy coinciding with 7.1, which was a step, albeit only partial, in the right direction.

The fundamental issue I had with 7.0 was twofold, though they are interrelated:

1) For some unknown reason, the Bioware game design team (not on the creative side) thought it was a smart move to create a convoluted, annoying gearing system. To make it worse, it was heavily time-gated. It still is to some extent, though getting better. FFXIV and ESO, while very different in terms of gear paths, have the luxury of having so much content being released at a steady cadence that players can almost always feel they are progressing. SWTOR doesn't have that luxury.

2) For some unknown reason, the Bioware game design team did a paradigm shift away from "play your way" to "play our way". Bioware clearly wanted to incentivize players to do certain activities like GSF and Ops. Combined with lack of content, that philosophy obviously failed as the plummeting numbers on Steam indicate. 

Please note: Even if you disagree with my two aforementioned points, I'm pretty sure we can all agree that the implementation of the previous Bioware design team's vision has been iffy. Classes are still unbalanced, there are companion issues, and level-synching remains off. 

Now the good news!

I think with Eric promoted he recognized in 7.1 the need to make some gear pathing currencies exchangeable. In 7.2, they are going further. I still have issues with the currency caps, but they are least taking steps, however small, in a game design philosophy that comports with my playstyle. FYI, my playstyle varies. I can't do Ops anymore because all my guildmates left (we are still very active on ESO), but sometimes I like to chill and do heroics, other times Flashpoints, and the occasional PvP (though rarely b/c of the engine). And I detest GSF with all the fiery intensity of Tatooine's twin suns.

I was also pleasantly surprised that 7.2 includes Ruhnuk. While Charles Boyd teased the new planet in his swansong farewell a few months ago, he (wisely) gave no indication of a release date. All Bioware had previously said was that 7.2 would be a PvP revamp -- and, yes, I know some of those changes are controversial -- but seeing as I only really PvP in ESO, I should keep my big Hutt mouth quiet on that subject.

I'm certainly not saying 6.0 was perfect given the obscene number of mods and that some of the best armor sets were extrememly easy to get (e.g., Descent of the Fearless) and some were far more difficult (e.g., Apex Predator). I do hope, however, that Bioware reverts back more to "play your way". I also hope Bioware doesn't bring in new personnel who feel the need to make sweeping changes a la Emperor Nero for the sake of solidifying their bona fides.

Dasty

Edited December 9, 2022 by Jdast
Stupid typos!

[OlBuzzard]

1 hour ago, Jdast said:

I'm slightly (note: only slightly) more optimistic than some of the posters here.

TL;DR: I'm hopeful to paraphrase Princess Leia. 7.0 was a disaster both in terms of game design philosophy and implementation, although I liked the story shift away from "OMG a SUPERWEAPON!", which actually started in Onslaught. I like the resource war aspect. Admittedly, I thought the pacing of the Malgus storyline could have been accelerated. While I won't go into it here, I also thought it was a very smart move for Bioware to capture the Mandalorian hype and incorporate that storyline as well. Anyone who disagrees with the last sentence should go to Reddit or Fleet and see all the Mando-oriented pics and players. 😹

I thought 7.0 was such a bug-ridden mess that I stopped playing and even unsubbed until there were changes in game design philosphy coinciding with 7.1, which was a step, albeit only partial, in the right direction.

The fundamental issue I had with 7.0 twofold, though they are interrelated:

1) For some unknown reason, the Bioware game design team (not on the creative side) thought it was a smart move to create a convoluted, annoying gearing system. To make it worse, it was heavily time-gated. It still is to some extent, though getting better. FFXIV and ESO, while very different in terms of gear paths, have the luxury of having so much content being released at a steady cadence that players can almost always feel they are progressing. SWTOR doesn't have that luxury.

2) For some unknown reason, the Bioware game design team did a paradigm shift away from "play your way" to "play our way". Bioware clearly wanted to incentivize players to do certain activities like GSF and Ops. Combined with lack of content, that philosophy obviously failed as the plummeting numbers on Steam indicate. 

Please note: Even if you disagree with my two aforementioned points, I'm pretty sure we can all agree that the implementation of the previous Bioware design team's vision has been iffy. Classes are still unbalanced, there are companion issues, and level-synching remains off. 

Now the good news!

I think with Eric promoted he recognized in 7.1 the need to make some gear pathing currencies exchangeable. In 7.2, they are going further. I still have issues with the currency caps, but they are least taking steps, however small, in a game design philosophy that comports with my playstyle. FYI, my playstyle varies. I can't do Ops anymore because all my guildmates left (we are still very active on ESO), but sometimes I like to chill and do heroics, other times Flashpoints, and the occasional PvP (though rarely b/c of the engine). And I detest GSF with all the fiery intensity of Tatooine's twin suns.

I was also pleasantly surprised that 7.2 includes Ruhnuk. While Charles Boyd teased the new planet in his swansong farewell a few months ago, he (wisely) gave no indication of a release date. All Bioware had previously said was that 7.2 would be a PvP revamp -- and, yes, I know some of those changes are controversial -- but seeing as I only really PvP in ESO, I should keep my big Hutt mouth quiet on that subject.

I'm certainly not saying 6.0 was perfect given the obscene number of mods and that some of the best armor sets were extrememly easy to get (e.g., Descent of the Fearless) and some were far more difficult (e.g., Apex Predator). I do hope, however, that Bioware reverts back more to "play your way". I also hope Bioware doesn't bring in new personnel who feel the need to make sweeping changes a la Emperor Nero for the sake of solidifying their bona fides.

Dasty

Yup ...  pretty much!  I'm certain that there are a few more items that could be listed... but IMO these are also (for me) pretty much at the top of the list (including those pesky BUGS) !!  
** Gating stuff has never worked (on more than just one subject)
** Over all 7.2 does appear to be a step in the right direction (I'll know more when it drops).  If I can either get the right gear or see companions less nerfed (not looking for over-the-top settings) then I can get back to enjoying some of game that I've currently placed in a holding pattern until this gets cleared up.
** The level sync thing does need a tad more work (but not necessarily done away with).
** Overall, I did like the use of MODS and even though I kept about 3 pages of those things available ...  it DID allow me to customize each of my alts at a much faster rate.  As it stands right now over 1/3 of my alts have been also placed into a holding pattern (too time consuming to mess with properly gearing all of them).
** I loved the emperor Nero analogy.  Frankly 1/2 of Hollywood seems like if they don't reinvent the franchise (see KK's attitude towards Star Wars) ... then somehow, they've been cheated.  The new Top Gun movie IMO demonstrates that if the "new script" treats the past with respect a large degree of success can follow (or at least it does help a great deal).
** IMO ...  if BW will develop the game with respect to the successful ideals of the past ... and simply build upon it amazing things can happen.  It should be noted that I'm still a strong proponent of multiple levels of difficulties available whenever possible as well.  Heck ...  even repeatable parts of the story (like we had in KotFE/ET) was (still is) a bonus.  

Sooo much more!  So much potential!!  
 

Edited December 9, 2022 by OlBuzzard
syntax ... error !!

[Ricul]

On 11/25/2022 at 7:07 AM, Hadsil said:

I really don't get it with all the hate. Maybe it's because I only play Story. The game works. The stories are interesting. I feel like I'm playing in Star Wars. The acting is wonderful. The graphics are beautiful. The best thing 7.0 did for me was allow me to change out fighting disciplines on a couple of characters I was not enjoying. I'm doing Class Story again, and this time I'm having fun playing Barbie with my Companions.

You like what was released in 2011 by good devs wich have all moved on to other companies. People are talking about Nu-SWTOR wich is terrible.

On topic :

I tried to do a playthrough on sage healer only to find out that force lift is now a level 60+ ability. Force lift is crucial for hero missions and golden mobs still have 200% more hp than they should have. By the time i reached Alderaan i have had enough. Hacking away at a golden mob for 5 minutes isn't what i would call fun. Leveling up makes you weaker every single level up until 80. Every class feels incredibly weak and combat is an absolute slog, zero power fantasy. My age old complaint of too many forced fights didn't get adressed either, on the contrary it got worse. It is a method of hiding lack of content.

They call it an xpac...lol, lmao even. Wow just released an xpac. A continent full of areas, factions, quests, dungeons, raids and stuff. That deserves the name xpac. This is a minor patch with terrible changes to progression and ui. Oh but we have dualspec now lol, they finally figured out how to create a new table in the database.

They haven't figured out how to prevent the animation glitch with lightsabres staying in your hand when you destroy objects though....since 2011...here is hoping they can figure it out in the next decade.

https://imgur.com/sb4S1aR

Edited December 10, 2022 by Ricul

[Ricul]

On 11/27/2022 at 4:58 AM, Nyghtfal said:

I can understand why 7.0 spread the abilities out more evenly

God forbid they make new abilities. I have been saying this for a long time: They are just reshuffeling the same game mechanics since 2011, Not a single new class or ability in 11 years.

 

Edited December 10, 2022 by Ricul