Fix Inflation PLEASE

[Dein_Cathair]

12 minutes ago, Dein_Cathair said:

Hi,

While I won't say it publicly, you are heading towards the right track., except it is NOT gtn taxes.

 

Maybe I'll pm Jackie. 

ok, pm to jackie sent .

 

I 'm tired of seeing how some really rich players are manipulating the economy

Even though I am very wealthy as well, I don't play those games

 

 I  saw the' loosen up' toy goo from 20m to 700+ million a week ago, and that someone was buying up the cheap ones and reselling for hundreds of millions.

 

 

Edited October 20, 2022 by Dein_Cathair

[septru]

2 minutes ago, Dein_Cathair said:

ok, pm to jackie sent .

 

i'd hate to be jackie 😂

[ZUHFB]

16 minutes ago, septru said:

i'd hate to be jackie 😂

I keep thinking more and more that her job must be pretty... tough. Reading messages from unhappy people all day for things literally out of your control would be very frustrating to me. 

I mean, with patchnotes THIS bad. I don't even know. Half the class changes aren't even in, so who knows if they just kinda happened, like the CDR on stealth scan just to give one example. I'm sure there is something that can be done but developing this game, balancing this game seems very much impossible at this point. How do they fix SMs, how is jug reflect not a reflect according to the game like... what is even going on? 

[menelli]

I was reading through posts here and some solutions could be quite effective while others would result in people leaving the game for good. Currently the prices are out of control because there is no Legacy/Character credit cap (be it both for subs and non-subs) so people can buy creds from cred farmers and then buy out items and resell them at a substantially higher price.

To me, the most effective solution would be:

- introduce a price cap for GTN (items can't be sold for more than 99.999.999 credits)

- leave the current GTN tax as it is but disable sending credits via in-game mail. Player to player trades would still be allowed but the credit limit would be max. 10 million and would have a 15 min. cooldown so people can't just spam 10 mil credit trades until they get the desired amount (I think 10 mil is sufficient for day-to-day expenses, for instance gear repairs for Raid Members, could be more)

- make ALL the cartel items available for purchase via Cartel Market (so you can spend CC if you want to get an item that is not currently on GTN/HyperCrates. Of course items bought this way would be Legacy Bound so you can't ramp up the price on the GTN again. Only the same items that you'd get from a HyperCrate would be allowed to be sold on GTN (so you have the gambling element which makes "farming" certain Cartel items from the crates unfeasable).

- 1 billion credit cap per Legacy (so that players who have amassed exorbitant amounts of credits in their Legacy Bank can't flood the market with them and buy out regular items in order to resell them for several hundred times their original value)

[Screaming_Ziva]

1 hour ago, menelli said:

- 1 billion credit cap per Legacy (so that players who have amassed exorbitant amounts of credits in their Legacy Bank can't flood the market with them and buy out regular items in order to resell them for several hundred times their original value)

And what do you do with the players that currently have over 1 billion credits?  Just drop all of them down to 1 billion so a ome people may lose 30 billion credits or more and some may lose none?

[menelli]

8 hours ago, Screaming_Ziva said:

And what do you do with the players that currently have over 1 billion credits?  Just drop all of them down to 1 billion so a ome people may lose 30 billion credits or more and some may lose none?

The same thing you do when a "denomination" comes into effect during hyperinflation. Give them time to prepare for this, invest your credits into assets such as armors, crystals and so on so you don't lose them. The amount of players that have hoarded billions of credits is not really that big and it is them that are using their position to inflate prices on the GTN by buying stuff out and reselling it for many times more.

[DeannaVoyager]

8 minutes ago, menelli said:

The same thing you do when a "denomination" comes into effect during hyperinflation. Give them time to prepare for this, invest your credits into assets such as armors, crystals and so on so you don't lose them. The amount of players that have hoarded billions of credits is not really that big and it is them that are using their position to inflate prices on the GTN by buying stuff out and reselling it for many times more.

 

There is a limited number of items you can "invest into" in GTN. Just because someone has played the game longer than someone else is not a valid reason to steal their money, and let others keep theirs.  

 

I think you are underestimating the amount of players with billions of credits, too. I have billions on all servers, even the ones I don't really even play on. Add the people who actively play and make credits, and it would be the majority of the playerbase.

 

 

[MortenJessen]

One simply has to love the inconsistency of this community. On the one side you yell at BW to fix the economy, on the other side you yell at BW for doing the obviously most effective thing to combat inflation. What does the community really want?? I doubt you really want BW to fix the economy, as many of the ideas in this thread mostly revolves around giving the players more leeway in their personal economy by making it easier to shuffle around values inside their legacy. The other ideas does absolutely nothing to solve the real problem, only pushing the need for (by then even harsher means) reaction into the future. And the thing that does combat inflation the most effective way; cutting FREE access to cartel coins, is frowned upon by players who don’t want THEIR personal way to make billions removed…

This community is stupidly undermining itself with its utter lack of insight into cause and effect of inflation, and the means needed to stagnate it (the economy in this game is beyond rehabilitation to “normal”) before making it healthy again trough reforms.

STOP asking for fixes with one hand when you whine like babies when they implement much needed measures as means to at least stagnate the economy. And no, free cartel coins is not a human right, nor is it game breaking not getting them.  The friend scam and the billions of cartel coins people got through it, is what destroyed the economy. Removing free cartel coins is about the only means to stabilize it. Having to work a little more for what free coins they still use as rewards, is NOT destroying your enjoyment of the game, it is removing your ability to get your dopamine fix without effort and your ability to get gratification without effort. That’s it, GET OVER IT. Snowflakes.

Edited November 26, 2022 by MortenJessen

[microstyles]

2 hours ago, MortenJessen said:

And the thing that does combat inflation the most effective way; cutting FREE access to cartel coins, is frowned upon by players who don’t want THEIR personal way to make billions removed…

Can you explain how more access to CC would be worse for credit inflation? From where I sit more CC means a larger supply of CC items on the market (lower prices).

[SteveTheCynic]

Just now, microstyles said:

Can you explain how more access to CC would be worse for credit inflation? From where I sit more CC means a larger supply of CC items on the market (lower prices).

The way I read the text by @MortenJessen that you quoted is exactly what you say - it's a way to combat inflation, but MJ's point was that there are folks that oppose that because it endangers their acquisition of more credits.

[microstyles]

2 hours ago, SteveTheCynic said:

The way I read the text by @MortenJessen that you quoted is exactly what you say - it's a way to combat inflation, but MJ's point was that there are folks that oppose that because it endangers their acquisition of more credits.

Pretty sure he's saying more CC in the economy means worse credit inflation.

5 hours ago, MortenJessen said:

And no, free cartel coins is not a human right, nor is it game breaking not getting them.  The friend scam and the billions of cartel coins people got through it, is what destroyed the economy

I don't see any other way to interpret that.

Edited November 26, 2022 by microstyles

[SteveTheCynic]

18 minutes ago, microstyles said:

Pretty sure he's saying more CC in the economy means worse credit inflation.

Ugh.  I suck at reading.  MJ is, indeed, saying exactly the opposite of what I thought.  Sorry.

[illgot]

I still support taxing any credit transactions between accounts 8% to 10%

Trade, mailed, or guild allowance withdraws (not guild summons or repairs), should be taxed 8% to 10%. This will probably be the most wide spread credit sink possible.

Edited November 26, 2022 by illgot

[SteveTheCynic]

7 minutes ago, illgot said:

I still support taxing any credit transactions between accounts 8% to 10%

Trade, mailed, or guild allowance withdraws (not guild summons or repairs), should be taxed 8% to 10%. This will probably be the most wide spread credit sink possible.

I presume you mean "player-to-player and guild-to-player transactions", because an invisible tax on purchases from vendors doesn't seem like a good idea.  (And it would spark a rash of complaints from people who had enough credits for the base purchase, but not enough to pay the sales tax.)

Otherwise, yes, that would help.

[illgot]

1 minute ago, SteveTheCynic said:

I presume you mean "player-to-player and guild-to-player transactions", because an invisible tax on purchases from vendors doesn't seem like a good idea.  (And it would spark a rash of complaints from people who had enough credits for the base purchase, but not enough to pay the sales tax.)

Otherwise, yes, that would help.

player to player not NPC venders.

[MortenJessen]

There are only so many ways inflation can be dealt with. And contrary to what people are let to believe, rising prices are not inflation. Inflation is the influxes of more money into circulation, meaning they will have less and less value the more money that are being printed and put into circulation. Rising prices are just a result of this inflation. Because the purchasing power is lowered at X rate over Y time, inflation leads to lower demand-pull, leading sellers to demand ever higher prices, making savings even less worth, rinse repeat.

In a game like SWTOR, most real world tools like regulating interests on savings will not work. Making regulations on demand-pull or selling bonds to high-rollers to get them to send much needed money into government pockets that can be used to generate needed boosts in production (public spending, infrastructure, hospitals, you name it) or lowering the taxes on the worst hit segments of the population, giving them more buying power can not be done for obvious reasons. In the real world, that would (ideally) create a state of stagnation in the economy. The first step to get inflation under control.

But those options are not possible in SWTOR, for reasons.

To get a segment economy like this inside SWTOR under control (note that I try to use real world options and ideas) one would need 5 or 6 steps, and most of them would make the players hate BW.

1)      Demand for money sinks. Return costs for training of skills and change of abilities. Make unlocks cost small amounts of credits not cartel coins (and I mean small amounts, to also allow f2p and new players to have those options). And I DON’T mean unlocks of costumes, weapons, pets, mounts or the like from collections, I mean game mechanisms. See 6.

2)      Slow down the leveling rate (e.g. cut exp gains with a factor 10 or 12 (back to the good old 1.0 to 4.0 days)). And return the credit gain from completing missions to same level. Why? To make credits come at a slow natural way through effort. This also happens to give players a reason to play the entire game and all missions, so win/win for BW. Players, who make credits this way, tend to be more selective on how and on what they spend them. That’s actually good for the economy.

3)      Tax. Most of the ideas I have read in this thread is downright useless when it comes to taxing, and just shows that the players are more interested in not cutting into their own income. Really? The tax on GTN needs to be divided into 3 levels, depending on the amount of money an item is put up for. Level 1 = 30 % for less than 100 million. Level 2 = 40% for between 100 million and 500 million. Level 3 = 50% for above 500 million. Those tax levels are about the only way to combat the pricing of valueless pixels so high that even real world central banks would sweat. An added benefit of this is that those who plays the GTN will not be able to do so with out losing money. Thats good for economy, cutting down speculation.

4)      Remove the option to trade player to player, and the option of mailing credits, it has the added benefit of killing off gold sellers. That happens to both benefit BW and the in-game economy. 

5)      Make crafting a thing again. And put real credit value on ALL special crafting mats, and stop gating them behind content. That way, value can be calculated. Good for economy.

6)      And lastly. FIX EXCHANGE RATES. Make fixed values of items, services (like GTN slots) conveniences (like character slots, species, and more)  and cosmetics that can be unlocked, either after being bought directly from CM or GTN, have a related credit value that rises automatically depending on the amount of credits you have in total on your legacy.  

I KNOW much of this will be frowned upon, but that is about what realistically can be done. And I know it will be painful. But the game is running low on options with any lasting effect. And this will have a lasting effect, not just push larger problems ahead into the future.

Especially the problem of cartel coins floating around is a sensitive matter, because most players has developed the idea that free coins are a human right. Fun fact; you dont even have the right to those 600 coins you get each month for subbing. Thats NOT free, it is a token from BW saying thanks for your money. NOT FREE. Aside from those 600 coins each month, the real deal that would help a lot on the economy is to cut the amount of coins players can get with out having to spend real money to the bare minimum. Period. 

 

Edited November 27, 2022 by MortenJessen
Added clarity.

[FlatTax]

The in-game economy is broken because real-world cash leaks into it.

And EA/BW wants it that way.

Edited November 26, 2022 by FlatTax

[Darcmoon]

55 minutes ago, MortenJessen said:

 

Especially the problem of cartel coins floating around is a sensitive matter, because most players has developed the idea that free coins are a human right. Fun fact; you dont even have the right to those 600 coins you get each month for subbing. Thats NOT free, it is a token from BW saying thanks for your money. NOT FREE. Aside from those 600 coins each month, the real deal that would help a lot on the economy is to cut the amount of coins players can get with out having to spend real money to the bare minimum. Period. 

 

Nothing in this game is a 'human right'.  BW could wipe every single character on every single server and we couldn't do anything about it.  We don't own anything in this game.  Now, if they did that they would probably have more people quit than they could afford to.  I also believe that if we did all the things you outlined that they would loose a large amount of people.  Would it be enough to kill this game?  I don't know, but if they loose too many then they won't keep the game up and running for long in the hope of getting new people to replace them.

Edited November 26, 2022 by Darcmoon

[MortenJessen]

I forgot to write under point 4, that it has the added benefit of killing off gold sellers. That happens to both benefit BW and the in-game economy. 

It has been added to the main post.

Edited November 26, 2022 by MortenJessen

[SteveTheCynic]

2 hours ago, MortenJessen said:

/snip

Points 3 and 4 would completely destroy the player-to-player economy.

[MortenJessen]

1 minute ago, SteveTheCynic said:

Points 3 and 4 would completely destroy the player-to-player economy.

No. It will limit it. Making sure that pricing stays reasonable, giving new players a way into the market. All it does really, is keeping the cartel coin exchange to credit rate low. Making sure that useless/worthless pixels dont end up as saving measures. 

I take it from your remark, that you are one of those who makes a living off trading cartel items instead of playing the game. Because you fail to distinguish between being limited and being destroyed.

[SteveTheCynic]

1 minute ago, MortenJessen said:

I take it from your remark, that you are one of those who makes a living off trading cartel items instead of playing the game.

Absolutely totally not at all.

1 minute ago, MortenJessen said:

Because you fail to distinguish between being limited and being destroyed.

There would be no direct (the GTN is indirect) P2P trading, and nobody would *want* to trade on the GTN (not with a third (roughly) to a half of their sale price being "stolen"(1) by the proposed GTN tax), so if the P2P economy wasn't actually *destroyed*, it would be so near to it to make no nevermind.

(1) That's what they would call it.

[MortenJessen]

10 minutes ago, SteveTheCynic said:

Absolutely totally not at all.

There would be no direct (the GTN is indirect) P2P trading, and nobody would *want* to trade on the GTN (not with a third (roughly) to a half of their sale price being "stolen"(1) by the proposed GTN tax), so if the P2P economy wasn't actually *destroyed*, it would be so near to it to make no nevermind.

(1) That's what they would call it.

By keeping with you limited view, I have to ask; How does it matter?

You keep avoiding the point, either because you wont, or because you fail to see it. The idea is to keep the insane amounts players wants for pixels down. It is in no way destroying anything. If a thing is believed to be worth more than the market value, you sell it for the best amount you can get from the gtn.... If that happens to be limiting those who horde those items for insane and broken amounts of profit, so be it, that means it is working. Economy 1-0-1.

 

Edited November 26, 2022 by MortenJessen

[DWho]

The biggest source of "inflation" is flipping items on the GTN (and through player trades). When someone has enough credits to buy up every item of a type, they can charge whatever they want (and there is always someone willing to pay whatever that "ourageous" amount is). If you made it so any item bought off the GTN or traded to a player became bound to legacy, that would end flipping. What effect it would have on Bioware sales would determine the likelihood it was implemented. I suspect BW would not want to go this route because Cartel Market sales are likely what is keeping the doors open at this point.

As far as credits gained from leveling, that is an insignificant input into the credit totals in the game. If you level and do every mission, you will end up with several million credits and that's it (if it were so easy to get credits that way few "new" players wouldn't complain since all they would have to do to get rich is level their characters). You would have to level dozens to get more than a couple hundred million (take it from someone who has played from launch and leveled about 100 characters who doesn't have even a Billion across their entire legacy - and that includes doing quite a bit of repeatable content). Repeatable content is the only "in game" source that has the potential for an unlimited amount of credits to be earned (and is what credit sellers use to amass their credits - along with buying them from unscrupulous players.)

Edited November 26, 2022 by DWho

[septru]

1 minute ago, DWho said:

The biggest source of "inflation" is flipping items on the GTN (and through player trades).

6 pages later and people still make the most ridiculous comments that show they really have no clue what they're talking about.