SteveTheCynic Posted July 14, 2022 Share Posted July 14, 2022 But all operations are locked behind a pay wall so I think my point still stands. They *are* locked behind a paywall, but if your point is that they are the *only* thing locked behind a paywall, your point is invalid. You have to pay (once) to enable access to the KotFE-and-after expansions (and again when the next expansion releases), and you have to pay a subscription to maintain access to: * Holding more than a million credits on a character. * Queuing more than one item per companion to craft. * Exiting your stronghold directly to your ship. (Returning to your ship is allowed, but "Exit to Fury" (or whatever) is not unless you are a subscriber.) * Sending credits by mail. Only subscribers can do this. (Preferred can send one item per mail, but not credits.) * Accessing, either to withdraw or to deposit, guild bank credits, even if it's a subscriber guild. (You can unlock access to *items*, but not to *credits*.) * Leading a subscriber-mode guild. * Possibly other things that I can't name off the top of my head, but for which there is equally no unlock for non-subs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damask_Rose Posted July 15, 2022 Share Posted July 15, 2022 First of all: they don't test new ops, nor does it have a NiM version. I don't know WHY a player that enjoys story, conquest and guild events is subbed right now. It's cool that you disagree but there won't be new story for some time. Why stay subbed? I don't know anybody that exclusively plays story, you want to know why? They all quit. The people I started with were story enjoyers, all gone. The people I pö lay woth today raidlog, but at least they log in at all! While I enjoy collecting, I'm playing for the story, and just the story. I used to pvp, but I drifted away from that, since it isn't nearly as fun as it used to be. I stay subbed so I can readily access my billions of credits and all of my numerous alts. The players that I know that still play are also story players. A few dabble in pvp or group content, but they are here for the story, full stop. The people I used to know who were pvpers and raiders all quit long ago. Just because you and yours don't play for story doesn't mean there aren't subscribers who do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZUHFB Posted July 15, 2022 Share Posted July 15, 2022 While I enjoy collecting, I'm playing for the story, and just the story. I used to pvp, but I drifted away from that, since it isn't nearly as fun as it used to be. I stay subbed so I can readily access my billions of credits and all of my numerous alts. The players that I know that still play are also story players. A few dabble in pvp or group content, but they are here for the story, full stop. The people I used to know who were pvpers and raiders all quit long ago. Just because you and yours don't play for story doesn't mean there aren't subscribers who do. Nono, you misunderstand - of course we do the story too, the problem is that if you played the game for as long as we have there isn't actually anything we haven't yet done. Story is great for some time, but... even that is not what makes you sub, it's the attachment you have made during story that is - this doesn't need updates, in 4.0 when there was no content and only story the game almost died and it was in it's worst state ever, do you really want that to happen again? I sure don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master_Morak Posted July 15, 2022 Share Posted July 15, 2022 (edited) Nono, you misunderstand - of course we do the story too, the problem is that if you played the game for as long as we have there isn't actually anything we haven't yet done. Story is great for some time, but... even that is not what makes you sub, it's the attachment you have made during story that is - this doesn't need updates, in 4.0 when there was no content and only story the game almost died and it was in it's worst state ever, do you really want that to happen again? I sure don't. OPs are no content - content is störy, events, Questline. OPs are a repetive feature for a group which is smaller and smaller as the difficulty increase. NIM Raiders are an absolut minority. In better times my actual guild had more than 100 active accounts - we had 3 aktive SM/HC raid groups but we had only 6 or 7 NIM raiders so tht the NIM group always need Players from friend guilds for a complete group. Edited July 15, 2022 by Master_Morak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZUHFB Posted July 15, 2022 Share Posted July 15, 2022 OPs are no content - content is störy, events, Questline. OPs are a repetive feature for a group which is smaller and smaller as the difficulty increase. NIM Raiders are an absolut minority. In better times my actual guild had more than 100 active accounts - we had 3 aktive SM/HC raid groups but we had only 6 or 7 NIM raiders so tht the NIM group always need Players from friend guilds for a complete group. Yeah I'm not denying that, I'm just explaining how it's not worth to create content that isn't really replayable. In other games it may makes sense but they get updates more than twice a year. Like, they make 12h of story content - they get 1 month sub from story players. They make 2h of story content - they get 1 month sub from story players. They overtune/delay/buff or even just connect gear to OPs and they (just because lockouts) get months and months of subs. I don't know why someone that only does story stays subbed, there is no reason to. As long as those people stay subbed you are actively working against getting more and better story content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master_Morak Posted July 15, 2022 Share Posted July 15, 2022 ... I don't know why someone that only does story stays subbed, there is no reason to. As long as those people stay subbed you are actively working against getting more and better story content. I don't know why people that raid stays subbed - running ever and ever the same dungeons/OPs for what? Gear which would be worthless with the nexr expansio? - stupid in my opinion. May be someone thinks gearing would be a worth to play a game, than I know better games which have more Operations with more Bosses and new OPs on a regular base (minimum 1 Raid with 8+ bosses per year) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toraak Posted July 15, 2022 Share Posted July 15, 2022 I don't know why people that raid stays subbed - running ever and ever the same dungeons/OPs for what? Gear which would be worthless with the nexr expansio? - stupid in my opinion. May be someone thinks gearing would be a worth to play a game, than I know better games which have more Operations with more Bosses and new OPs on a regular base (minimum 1 Raid with 8+ bosses per year) You fail to see however that some of us may like doing the Operations (gear treadmill), combine that with this is the ONLY Star Wars MMO. Yes there are other MMO's that give more frequent Raids, but not everyone cares about FF14 or WoW or whatever other game your referring to. None of them are SW. Story is great the 1st few times you do it, but doing Raids (Operations) with friends while doing the gear treadmill is what keeps more consistent subs (Same for PvP). Repeatable endgame content is what keeps many people subscribed for longer periods of time usually. Story players can stay subbed, but in truth they do not need to unless a new update for story comes out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediQuaker Posted July 15, 2022 Share Posted July 15, 2022 You fail to see however that some of us may like doing the Operations (gear treadmill), combine that with this is the ONLY Star Wars MMO. Yes there are other MMO's that give more frequent Raids, but not everyone cares about FF14 or WoW or whatever other game your referring to. None of them are SW. Story is great the 1st few times you do it, but doing Raids (Operations) with friends while doing the gear treadmill is what keeps more consistent subs (Same for PvP). Repeatable endgame content is what keeps many people subscribed for longer periods of time usually. Story players can stay subbed, but in truth they do not need to unless a new update for story comes out. Some people also fail to see that some people are new to OPs and are still enjoying a fresh experience. And speaking of 'story', I recently started bringing a level 75 character through the current 'endgame' content to get to level 80. The most annoying thing is spacebaring through all the yackety yack in the flashpoints. 🙂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWho Posted July 15, 2022 Share Posted July 15, 2022 This whole argument about how playerbase A deserves more content than playerbase B is what has caused all of the toxicity in the game as it is. Raiders "can't understand" why anyone would want to play the storyline over and over and Story players "can't understand" why raiders would want to raid all the time. Neither "can understand" why PVP players want to do what they want to do. The truth is that most players take a little from column A, some from column B, and the rest from Column C. Subscriptions are almost certainly not where Bioware gets most of it's revenue from. Their focus on Cartel Market items says a lot about that. For years, Bioware has pitted one playerbase against the other to distract from their own failures (whether that be terrible story, broken flashpoints, bad class balance, operations that are not up to snuff, or general unresponsiveness). The toxicity we have now is the result. The community needs to focus it's "ire" on those responsible, Bioware, and not tear each other to pieces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted July 15, 2022 Share Posted July 15, 2022 I believe the trinity model is an MMO's greatest weakness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toraak Posted July 15, 2022 Share Posted July 15, 2022 This whole argument about how playerbase A deserves more content than playerbase B is what has caused all of the toxicity in the game as it is. Raiders "can't understand" why anyone would want to play the storyline over and over and Story players "can't understand" why raiders would want to raid all the time. Neither "can understand" why PVP players want to do what they want to do. The truth is that most players take a little from column A, some from column B, and the rest from Column C. Subscriptions are almost certainly not where Bioware gets most of it's revenue from. Their focus on Cartel Market items says a lot about that. For years, Bioware has pitted one playerbase against the other to distract from their own failures (whether that be terrible story, broken flashpoints, bad class balance, operations that are not up to snuff, or general unresponsiveness). The toxicity we have now is the result. The community needs to focus it's "ire" on those responsible, Bioware, and not tear each other to pieces. I have no issues with any gameplay style getting new content. BW should make far more content for ALL playstyles. Whether it's Story, PvP, FP's, Operations, GSF or any other playstyle I'm not thinking of at the moment. However with that being said, the content that keeps people subbing is usually the content that is repeatable content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZUHFB Posted July 15, 2022 Share Posted July 15, 2022 Neither "can understand" why PVP players want to do what they want to do. True and real. I actually laughed when I read it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wulfengrim Posted July 16, 2022 Share Posted July 16, 2022 City of Heroes proved you don't need the Unholy Trinity in PVE. They never got PVP quite right, but they found ways to create really fun synergies without the traditional break-down of roles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RikuvonDrake Posted July 16, 2022 Share Posted July 16, 2022 City of Heroes proved you don't need the Unholy Trinity in PVE. They never got PVP quite right, but they found ways to create really fun synergies without the traditional break-down of roles. unsure if a cancelled game is really a great indicator of a successful system heh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts