I see no reason to play Slinger/Sniper in PVP at all in this game....

[Jarbarian]

Change my mind....

[Jarbarian]

Apparently no one can lol!

[Enticy]

Or no one cares enough to try. It’s your game, play whatever you want.

[Jarbarian]

Or no one cares enough to try. It’s your game, play whatever you want.

 

It was a question for anyone who plays Sniper/Slinger to answer regarding PVP.

 

It's not about what I "like to play", I want to know if the current POS patch has made Slingers unplayable, which it appears to have done.

Edited March 6, 2022 by Jarbarian

[Enticy]

It was a question for anyone who plays Sniper/Slinger to answer regarding PVP.

 

It's not about what I "like to play", I want to know if the current POS patch has made Slingers unplayable, which it appears to have done.

 

Okay. As someone who plays Sniper/Slinger in PvP regularly, let me answer your question. “Unplayable” is an overstatement. It’s harder to play Sniper/Slinger in PvP. You have to relearn timing and rely on positioning a lot more. Instead of kiting, sometimes you have to withdraw from a fight entirely. No, it doesn’t feel as good as it used to, but you can still effectively play Sniper/Slinger in PvP if you know what you’re doing.

[Jarbarian]

Ok fair enough. What I am asking is "Do you find Sniper's ability to survive was reduced immensely?

 

Because that's what I see. Sentinels can now heal, but Sniper/Slinger cannot. And with a choice of defenses, it seems they turned this class into paperbag cannons. Sure, you can still hit hard but if anyone breathes on you, you are dead.

 

Same issue with Operatives on Snipers. Its not even a fair fight.

[Sounders_Fan]

Ok fair enough. What I am asking is "Do you find Sniper's ability to survive was reduced immensely?

 

Because that's what I see. Sentinels can now heal, but Sniper/Slinger cannot. And with a choice of defenses, it seems they turned this class into paperbag cannons. Sure, you can still hit hard but if anyone breathes on you, you are dead.

 

Same issue with Operatives on Snipers. Its not even a fair fight.

 

Sentinel/Marauders could always heal when playing in watchman/Annihilation spec; this is not new. However the spec is in a good place for current meta and is relatively prevalent now.

[Jarbarian]

Well we used to be able to heal.

 

Not anymore.

[BaineOs]

It was a mistake for them to give us those heals in 5.0 anyway

[Jarbarian]

It was a mistake for them to give us those heals in 5.0 anyway

 

Why? Because OP Operatives and Scoundrels need heals more than we do?

 

Odd. They heal like crazy and have many different ways to get out of damage.

 

They also consistently out DPS Slingers/Snipers.

 

But I digress. Your statement is illogical.

 

Now we have limited defenses and no heals and our damage is laughable.

 

But sure, who needs heals when you're dead in 5 seconds flat, right?

[BaineOs]

For one thing you need to understand I've returned to the game after 5ish years away so I haven't experienced the history everyone else has, I quit shortly after 5.0.

 

Back then snipers were in a very good state already, our defences were pretty good and used correctly could be made to do some funky stuff. But then on top of that they gave us essentially a combined set of healing skills that could bring back close to 90% heals. That's quite simply far too much for a class like the sniper with the amount of CC's we had.

 

A sniper who is average at the class or has only just started playing, still getting to grips with how to use the cc correctly (which lets be honest does take a new sniper some time), then such heals are going to help a lot. But give veteran snipers that amount of healing and they're essentially in god mode.

 

To have some healing? Sure, as long as it's balanced of course, but THAT amount of healing? It was far too much.

[Jarbarian]

For one thing you need to understand I've returned to the game after 5ish years away so I haven't experienced the history everyone else has, I quit shortly after 5.0.

 

Back then snipers were in a very good state already, our defences were pretty good and used correctly could be made to do some funky stuff. But then on top of that they gave us essentially a combined set of healing skills that could bring back close to 90% heals. That's quite simply far too much for a class like the sniper with the amount of CC's we had.

 

A sniper who is average at the class or has only just started playing, still getting to grips with how to use the cc correctly (which lets be honest does take a new sniper some time), then such heals are going to help a lot. But give veteran snipers that amount of healing and they're essentially in god mode.

 

To have some healing? Sure, as long as it's balanced of course, but THAT amount of healing? It was far too much.

 

We can just agree to disagree. When Operatives are doing millions in self healing with far more defensive abilities, the entire Slinger/Sniper class should just be removed from the game.

 

Its not a fair fight when just dots alone can kill you and you have no way to mitigate that damage.

No cleanses.

No heals.

And you defensive stance and defense screen are burned right through with every offensive ability from other classes.

 

No, healing was not overpowered. It simply helped cover some of the DOT damage.

 

This class needs to just be removed from the game if this is how BioWare thinks it should be played.

 

I don't even see them in BattleGrounds anymore. Why?

 

Because they are the 1st target and first to die, VERY QUICKLY.

 

Don't tell me healing was OP. You're completely wrong.

[BaineOs]

I'm sorry but again I have to point out my knowledge is from just after 5.0 started and I can assure you back then I was used to not having healing and did ok for myself. Operatives had insane healing even back then so that argument doesn't really enter into the equation.

 

I am not trying to antagonise you or anyone else in the slightest but the sniper has always had things stacked against them, as an engineering sniper I feel like my defences are in a better position to that of the other two specs. Back then I could count the amount of engineering snipers on just 1 or two fingers, only one I remember is a sniper called Heymonkey.

 

The sniper has always needed to have a good balance between offence, defence and mobility. Do any one of those out of balance and you're going to be toast, the issue was knowing when to use your cc's and in what capacity you use them, and when to move around.

 

People have always been able to tell the good snipers from the bad snipers, the ones who know what they're doing will continue using them and will still be able to turn out the goods because they didn't need it in the first place, the ones who relied upon the healing will not. It's simply the way of things.

[KyeXema]

We can just agree to disagree. When Operatives are doing millions in self healing with far more defensive abilities, the entire Slinger/Sniper class should just be removed from the game.

 

Its not a fair fight when just dots alone can kill you and you have no way to mitigate that damage.

No cleanses.

No heals.

And you defensive stance and defense screen are burned right through with every offensive ability from other classes.

 

No, healing was not overpowered. It simply helped cover some of the DOT damage.

 

This class needs to just be removed from the game if this is how BioWare thinks it should be played.

 

I don't even see them in BattleGrounds anymore. Why?

 

Because they are the 1st target and first to die, VERY QUICKLY.

 

Don't tell me healing was OP. You're completely wrong.

 

I play Slinger on regs and get top 3 almost every single time dps wise, i can win a lot of 1v1s if i have my cds, i mean it's a hard class, it requires tons of prep to get damage out, but it's still satisfying as hell to me, which is why i play it.

[SOLRanger]

Sorry for the WOT, but hang in there if you can.

 

Sniper fits very poorly in the current PvP meta and it shows. Essentially all the benefits a sniper would reasonably have are closer to the point of mediocrity in effect, all classes at this point are very homogeneous and unimaginative.

 

Huge health pools and mitigation are the most noticeable culprits here, not to mention mobility. Sniper(esp. Marksman) relies on spike damage, roots and range and all of these are directly countered with the currently heavy health/mitigation/mobility. Add to that a lack of staying power/longevity on the sniper side and we get what we have now, a quite mediocre class/spec with heavy meta driven downsides without any real effective upsides.

 

The moment you reduce survival and mobility, sniper will increasingly begin to shine as both long range/spike damage will count for more and more, rather than generic and drawn out sustained damage as is the case for essentially all classes right now. As PvP becomes more dynamic that's where a Sniper works well. At the moment we're too far into one end of the spectrum where the demand for reliable sustained damage on a target simply does not work for a Sniper much of the time, the opponent has all the time in the world to mitigate your damage by LOS/outrange.

 

Personally I wouldn't mind getting back a slight passive heal in cover, as the removal of the heal was a poorly thought through decision from BioWare as I see it for the current meta. However the passive heal wouldn't be very necessary if sniper nuke damage was actually a thing and we could do our jobs by killing rather than having to live in nuclear bunkers just to survive long enough to do some damage to people with Rancor level survival.

 

Currently hardly anyone even bats an eye if you shoot at them and it's rather silly how high health pools are relative to our heaviest nukes, and how much damage can be easily mitigated honestly, not to mention healed.

 

If I were to suggest something making Sniper at least a little more effective/fun then snipers should get one or some of these:

 

A. Longevity - While in cover you regenerate 0.1% health per ten seconds, stacks 30 times, up to 3%.

B. Projection - While in cover your range increases by 0.2m per second, stacks 30 times, up to 6m.

C. Assassination - While in cover your Ambush, Followthrough and Takedown damage increases by 0.5% stacks 30 times, up to 15%.

D. Control - Your shots reduce the speed of your target by 2% for 6 seconds, stacks 30 times, up to 60%.

E. Surprise - While in cover you gain stealth and your first ability from stealth does an extra 10% damage, stealth is broken once entering combat for any reason.

 

Or give us all of the above, or something else that makes it something more exciting and fun and makes the class stand out somehow as a Sniper.

 

The level of lackluster Sniper(and other classes) is currently you might as well go wildly nuts on heterogeneous class design and bring something truly FUN for once and not the accountant level class fantasy destroying game design that seems to be prevalent nowadays.

 

Just to point out the similar side to this, even the PvE feels like the PvP does, it's like hitting a concrete wall. Enemies with insane health pools that you just grind your buttons to kill over immense time scales relative to their actual danger level. It's not fun gameplay and I can't figure out why someone would think it was. The weakest ones ironically you just press suppressive fire and kill 10 enemies in a swoop, why is that a thing too?

 

What is this game design I ask myself quite often, it's so extreme but towards the most unreasonable, boring and tedious mechanics rather than fun and dynamic gameplay with abilities that matter and do varied and functionally important things for different situations. I somewhat digress so I'll just leave it there.

 

PS. Also give us shiv back, and nerf aoe and suppressive fire already.

 

Reserved for brain farts, wholly subjective opinions and blatant unapologetic biases.

[DougTheNoob]

Change my mind....

 

140k+ of crit hit (as engi sniper,with the right build and gear). Boom,u can melt ppl down!At least I'm doin just fine with it. And I'm not even the best sniper out there,tho I consider myself to be pretty decent playing engi,as it was my first class/spec ever. If u still think sniper isnt good for pvp,then play any other class u want cos maybe sniper isnt for u =).I do agree that snipers need at least anther meaningful dcd tho. I also agree that sniper isnt good for solo ranked,but thats not on sniper skills or lack of it,but the way the solo ranked was designed. They need to change solo ranked in order to make it more balanced to all classes. Right now,solo ranked is only for stealth classes. Sorcs and and mercs can do it too,but not in the same lvl of the op-sin-mara trio.

Edited August 15, 2022 by DougTheNoob

[MrGoodStone]

On 3/25/2022 at 9:37 PM, KyeXema said:

 

I play Slinger on regs and get top 3 almost every single time dps wise, i can win a lot of 1v1s if i have my cds, i mean it's a hard class, it requires tons of prep to get damage out, but it's still satisfying as hell to me, which is why i play it.

Dude, you know, it's true, if you're an extremely stoned nerd, you can give a good DPS playing as a sniper that Bioware has now quietly flushed down the toilet, but why, excuse me, why should there be such a difficulty? Is it somehow logically justified? In this game, all classes have always been quite simple and had a fairly simple rotation compared to other MMOs I've played
And now I have to look like I ran a hundred kilometers after every match when all the other classes were played at a relaxed pace
This is because the sniper is just stupidly weak now, so advice like, "Dude, you just don't have enough skill," or "I've been playing as a sniper since kindergarten and I'm fine because I can play with my eyes closed and I have every CD in my memory.
But this is a rather stupid excuse because the class is simply abandoned by developers and you just need to understand it.

[Obroa-Skai]

I played Sniper and Gunslinger a lot of my time since 2012 even if i never mained it (my main always been Vanguard). A week ago i decided to make Sniper my second main combat style and created a Vanguard/SAniper trooper. So all i want now is to definitely become good at this class because i love it the same way i always loved Vanguard. Is like i have fun in playing only difficult classes. 

That said, during this last week, i had the chance to experiment deeply all the changes to the Markmanship spec, and i honestly don't understand why there is so much complaining about its defensives:

1 - back in the days Countermeasures and Evasion were different abilities, with proper set bonus you could have the tool of finishing the cooldown on Covered Escape by activating Evasion, this utility is now part of countermeasures passive from ability tree. That's interesting because you have to choose when u need it to run faster to avoid an impossible fight or run to an objective or kite, rather then activating Countermeasures to gain the 200% defense chance. More trivial than it used to be. Oh and this way you can have your Covered escape cooldown reset, which is something available only on set bonus pre 7.0. 

2 - I always pick the self heal choice in pvp, that gives you a 3% every 2 seconds is way more than in previous pacthes. Sometimes when i got hit by a Demolish and have like 20% hp and i have multi dots ticking on me i escape to stay in cover with a warzone adrenal waiting for the effect to vanish, and that self heal really helps a lot.

3 - Sniper/slingers have the strongest pushback in the game in my opinion, but with the proper utility from ability tree you can make penetrating blast a very useful pushback too aswell, especially if used twice with sniper vollety it really helpz out a lot against melee classes: yesterday i 1vs1 a couple of juggs and won thanks to this trick. With all CD's availbale you can have in other words 3 pushbacks and circle between them as they one by one come off from CD. 

4 - Entrench is pretty much the same thing as it used to. Pre 7.0 i used to pick the Seek Cover utility but now i prefer to boost my shield probe. Entrench is something really big: in my gamestyle i always have it up because it lasts 23 seconds: as a fight starts in regular warzones it takes in average from 3 to 7 seconds for opponents to realize that you are freecasting. In a matter of seconds you have alqays hav the 99% of chance to get globalled so is always good to have Entrench on and avoid stunlock. 45 seconds cd minus 23 seconds of effect means you always have to calculate 22 seconds where you are vulnerable to stuns, that changes a lot. Plus the AOE dr, is probably your best defensive togheter with evasion. 

5 - Divrersion is a great ability and we all know about it: is a pity that it doesn't have any other feature like in the past. Id'l like to see it slow targets by a certain percentage. Talking about slows and roots, my personal tip is to spam Leg Shot when facing melee or avoid ranged to use LOS. In this sense i love that penetrating blast root target for the duration, very useful as said before. 

6 - Suppressive fire should finish the cooldown on Followthrough and make it deal splash damage as baseline, since that Markmanship has the worst AOE: i know it's not an AOE spec like Engi and i know that Suppressive fire is already OP, but hell, why not?

So in the end what is this lack of defensives whining all about? In the end all you really lost in pvp is Ballistic Shield, long long cooldown for 20 seconds of DR and some self heal, you can get over with it in my opinion. The class has stil a lot to offer if played properly and if u don't try to get the kill at any cost and know where to stay in the map. Run if things get hard, just run away. So far i'm learning that is better to die running away from 3 maras against me rather than dying because i try to survive vs 3 maras just to kill one of them, you are not a PT/VG. 

My humble tribute to the discussion.