Do you ppl saying the nerf was good understand eco?

[LeperJack]

Lets play a little game called application of logic.

Oh?! I like this game. Let's!

 

How would gold sellers make the money to sell?

Primarily by stealing accounts. Actual farming is only a small portion of their business. Still, said farming is more easily accomplished by powerlevelling and grinding at 50 or playing the market. (buy very rare items, mark up 100-500% or more. someone will buy it eventually)

 

but this is more "knowledge" than logic. Still, let's see what your answer was.

 

A)Having the ability to click a few buttons for a relatively low level character to send off companions that results in a profit

Oh... Incorrect. but let's see where you went with this.

 

is an open invitation to massive gold farmers/bot farming for credits which will then make economic problems of increased cash availability worse.

Do you know what the profit cap (pre-nerf) was on managing an entire account's worth of max level slicers sending out the maximum amount of companions? (due to the way this works, you'd actually need to hack the interface to manage this.)

 

5,760,000 credits per day. This is also hard capped. It will never increase under any circumstances, and will not exceed this level.

 

That sounds like a lot, I'll grant you that. But you're paying what? 500cr per skill trained? 1000?

 

Do you know what the results are of doing the same process with high level gathering skills are and selling them?

 

(assuming only 3000 credits per blue item [lol])

6,912,000

Note that this number is subject to growth as the market changes.

 

If you go out and grind while you do this, (actually possible with this method due to better results from longer missions) then you can add another million or so to the funds gathered.

 

In short: no gold farmer is going to waste his time with Slicing, because as much as you may dislike them, I assure you they are not stupid or ignorant of game economics.

 

The more money there is of a currency the less it is worth.

If there is nothing to buy with your money, it is worthless.

 

Credits are used as money, but they also are used as "labor" in that mission skills let you gather raw materials and convert them using credits, just as you would with man hours. Limiting the influx of credits is similar to outlawing overtime and the 40 hour work week. No one can go to weork, so nothing gets made, and because nothing gets made, there's nothing to buy. Because of scarcity, prices actually INCREASE while everyone's relative wealth level DECREASES. This is called an economic depression.

 

The thing is, gold farmers are excellent at alleviating depresssions for their customers, and the more of a depression you have, the more customers they will have. You will have an influx of raw credits, and you can either get it from the gold farmers or you can have players creating REGULATED amounts through slicing.

 

BW absolutely has to remove the ability to click a few buttons and print money. They just had to. Are further tweaks necessary - absolutely. The virtual economy is still just getting started.

Reread what I've said above. If you still think this "must" be done, then i am afraid I cannot help you further.

 

B) Time consuming gathering of mats, then crafting from mats, then crossing fingers on AH?

Well it's worked for them in every other game, and it actually still yields a higher return than slicing did pre-nerf despite the market troubles.

 

C) Money earned by leveling (ummm no - as they'll need that money to continue to level in harder places..until 50 - even then what is the amount/hour made?

LOL

 

What level are you?

 

Especially as A is far easier to automate/bot/do remotely than b or c.

Actually B is incredibly easy to automate, and C has been automated for quite a long time.

 

Were you planning to apply any logic at some point? I missed it.

[Wildfae]

Id like to hear a non-slicer who is opposed to the nerf come on and explain their reasoning. And how it benefits them. because lets be honest, slicers hate it and justifiably so. You cant print extra money without doing more than sending your companion on a mission while running an instance. So lets hear the non slicers reason why slicing nerf is bad?

[BigDras]

People still dont understand basic economics.

Old system:

Slicers were like the US mint. they could Print off money in the game and afford WHATEVER they wanted. If you were a scavenger though, you didnt have this ability. Sure you could maybe try to sell your mats for a small profit, but thats if someone wanted them. vendor trashing them got you nowhere. And if you could use your mats to make something, you MAY be able to sell it for a profit, but lets be honest, drops from quests and heroics earn you just as good if not better equipment. So now you have to sink money into a craft to desynth and get a purple recipe. Then you have to try and see if their is a market for that product. meanwhile Slicers are just vendor trashing their way to more and more money. How anyone can look at that and say, "Well yea that makes sense" Is dumb. its not necessarily the slicers fault, its that the goods that crafters are given to make generally dont add any value for a lot of time and money invested. Slicing requires no time, no money invested and just allowed people to make money with NO RISK. That is a problem. If you dont want to risk anything dont craft. A game should not give players an opportunity to print money. Its not like any crafting skill is a huge money maker.

 

All true in theory; reality is more complex. There has to be some level of cash generation, and slicing was a mechanism for doing this. Slicing itself (as instituted before) may or may not have had the potential to create inflation. We never saw that economy evolve.

 

The real issue creating inflation, imo, is the practice of what I term the "cash sprint". And slicing has been the alleged means for this (its still an early economy), although to be exact it has been the practice of using multiple characters to slice and gain relatively large cash postions.

 

I believe that in the scenario where the multiple account practice was not possible, then slicing itself may have been reasonable since at endgame things are different. Who knows, as we are in early days.

 

What I wonder is who is making the decisions on "balance"? I would love to know whether there are so-called experts examining the system.

 

I never played WoW much but I assume the economy worked well. EVE has a good economy from what I understand. Most MMOs don't...it's not easy.

[The_Archon]

5,760,000 credits per day.

 

no gold farmer is going to waste his time with Slicing,

 

freaking LOL!

[OdonKnight]

Oh?! I like this game. Let's!

 

Primarily by stealing accounts. Actual farming is only a small portion of their business. Still, said farming is more easily accomplished by powerlevelling and grinding at 50 or playing the market. (buy very rare items, mark up 100-500% or more. someone will buy it eventually)

 

but this is more "knowledge" than logic. Still, let's see what your answer was.

 

Oh... Incorrect. but let's see where you went with this.

 

Do you know what the profit cap (pre-nerf) was on managing an entire account's worth of max level slicers sending out the maximum amount of companions? (due to the way this works, you'd actually need to hack the interface to manage this.)

 

5,760,000 credits per day. This is also hard capped. It will never increase under any circumstances, and will not exceed this level.

 

That sounds like a lot, I'll grant you that. But you're paying what? 500cr per skill trained? 1000?

 

Do you know what the results are of doing the same process with high level gathering skills are and selling them?

 

(assuming only 3000 credits per blue item [lol])

6,912,000

Note that this number is subject to growth as the market changes.

 

If you go out and grind while you do this, (actually possible with this method due to better results from longer missions) then you can add another million or so to the funds gathered.

 

In short: no gold farmer is going to waste his time with Slicing, because as much as you may dislike them, I assure you they are not stupid or ignorant of game economics.

 

If there is nothing to buy with your money, it is worthless.

 

Credits are used as money, but they also are used as "labor" in that mission skills let you gather raw materials and convert them using credits, just as you would with man hours. Limiting the influx of credits is similar to outlawing overtime and the 40 hour work week. No one can go to weork, so nothing gets made, and because nothing gets made, there's nothing to buy. Because of scarcity, prices actually INCREASE while everyone's relative wealth level DECREASES. This is called an economic depression.

 

The thing is, gold farmers are excellent at alleviating depresssions for their customers, and the more of a depression you have, the more customers they will have. You will have an influx of raw credits, and you can either get it from the gold farmers or you can have players creating REGULATED amounts through slicing.

 

Reread what I've said above. If you still think this "must" be done, then i am afraid I cannot help you further.

 

Well it's worked for them in every other game, and it actually still yields a higher return than slicing did pre-nerf despite the market troubles.

 

LOL

 

What level are you?

 

Actually B is incredibly easy to automate, and C has been automated for quite a long time.

 

Were you planning to apply any logic at some point? I missed it.

 

 

You are absolutely correct - I completely forgot where the hackers hired PR firms and tricked us all to call hacking "chineese gold farming". My bad.

 

You think gold farmers/sellers have the time to put into a game to grind then sell those items to replace their real world income??? Really. Think about the time investment involved in all that. Grind mats.. more grind mats.. fight fight fight.. make items.. AH items.. re-list AH items when needed.

 

Your straw men you put up regarding max figures are useless - the former is a point prover, the latter is dependent upon a market that does purchase and at the purchase levels required to reach the figure.

 

"In short: no gold farmer is going to waste his time with Slicing, because as much as you may dislike them, I assure you they are not stupid or ignorant of game economics." I forget.. what are you saying - at one moment you say grinding makes all this money and that is how the non-hacking gold sellers get their money then you claim that.. that slicing was too time consuming. Pressing a skill button - selecting a crew - clicking another button is.. wait for it.. too time consuming. !??!!??!?!?!??!!? Realllllly. Especially if you get an app or similar to automate that? Too time consuming. Sure wilbur.

 

What is easier to automate: I say A - you say otherwise:

A. a button click - drop down choice - button click

B. A world navigation bot program to not only find things on the map but also has combat protocols to automate combat.

 

at the same time avoiding any watchdog progs in place to prevent bots...

 

the answer is A bro. A

 

addendum: I also love how you argue crafting versus slicing as if slicing is a crafting skill. News flash - slicers can craft too. They can use part of that 5million a day to buy mats they wouldn't get from the skills slicing DOES replace.

Edited December 30, 2011 by OdonKnight

[LeperJack]

While you do seem to have a wealth of knowledge, all that credibility goes out the window when you decide to dispute someone else's education.

Okay, I am actually Selma Hayak. If you dispute this assertion and claim i am not Selma Hayak then you eastoy no boono. Also you loose all credibility for pointing out that my phonetic attempt at typing in spanish wasn't even correct.

 

In short: when you say "I am totally an economist with 20 years of experience, and here's some stuff a high-school level individual can point out the obvious flaws in." then it's a little silly to get upset when someone calls you on it, or dismiss anyone questioning "your education." If you haven't learned how to tell the difference between a standard economy and this one, then if you did go to school, go on back and demand a refund. You learned nothing.

 

You make it seem like Slicing is the only way to "pay" for skills/repair equipment. There are other ways to earn that, and the nerf, imo, only slowed down what was a rapid pace of economic growth that appeared to be attributed to how quickly people were attaining credits through a source like slicing.

Except that that rate was minor compared to a myriad number of other available methods, and in fact is well below the average earning potential of any level 50 character you're going to see spring up over the next few weeks.

 

Having a pool of individuals with moderate (Yes, slicing returns are moderate. A credit is not a dollar. It's like a tenth of a cent.) wealth more evenly spread is less likely to lead to economic abuse than having the first three people to level to 50 on a server having a huge income compared to the rest of the server.

 

Do I need to explain to you why having a small group of very wealthy individuals making a "couple hundred dollars a day" compared to "two dollars a day" for the rest of the population is a bad thing, even if parts of that population eventually catch up?

 

I do understand your point about credits being more than just currency, and I agree. But the fact is if one individual is making more credits faster than the next guy, doesn't that create a disparity that would be negative for a young economy such as this?

No.

 

First, it's a market economy. Second, slicing income has a hard cap on it that is actually well below the earning potential of simply grinding. To maximize that potential you actually have to micromanage and simply NOT PLAY at all because you're too busy clicking on mission buttons.

 

The people crying about not making money were not people working in the economy, they were people playing "pokemon crafter." They were literally destroying resources to get "vanity recipes." Just as no one buys six-handled scissors, no one is going to buy epic level 1 mods, much less epic level 1 mods of every single type availalble.

 

Silly people fail at economics and go broke. That happens. When you light money on fire, you do not make profit.

 

Jack, Jim and Jill are slicers. They can make 12,000 credits an hour each. That is all they can make and they will never make more. Ever. Because slcing does not increase past its cap no matter what.

 

Jerry is a crafter. He can make

 

Because they took slicing, Jack Jim and Jill are consumers. They literally can not craft entirely independently because they cannot gather for themselves.

 

Jerry makes items Jack, Jim and Jill want. He can ask for as much as he wants, but at some point, Jack, jim, and Jill are going to say "i will not pay that, because I literally can not afford to pay that much."

 

Slicing isn't a mint printing money. It's minimum wage. It looks like a lot of money to you, I'm sure, because you are not seeing the final set costs of maintenance and upkeep.

 

A level 15 player with half a million credits is nothing. Nothing. I'm sitting on far more than that at the moment, and it has zero to do with slicing. As a matter of fact, the amount of cash I have made in the past week with one account on one server that I play in the evenings and fiddle around with on my lunch break would have been completely impossible to replicate with three accounts running maxed out slicing on 8 characters and three companions each. (So... at launch day I'd need 24 level 30 characters)

 

Regardless, you can refute my point as much as you'd like and question my education as much as you'd like, but I came to state my opinion and that's all.

I do appreciate that you were honest enough to call it an opinion.

[OdonKnight]

freaking LOL!

 

I got wordy in my rebuttal of how the world was not, in fact, flat but you did what I did but with much less effort.

 

+1

[ryancwn]

You are absolutely correct - I completely forgot where the hackers hired PR firms and got us all to call hacking chineese gold farming. My bad.

 

You think gold farmers/sellers have the time to put into a game to grind then sell those items to replace their real world income??? Really. Think about the time investment involved in all that. Grind mats.. more grind mats.. fight fight fight.. make items.. AH items.. re-list AH items when needed.

 

Your straw men you put up regarding max figures are useless - the former is a point prover, the latter is dependent upon a market that does purchase and at the purchase levels required to reach the figure.

 

"In short: no gold farmer is going to waste his time with Slicing, because as much as you may dislike them, I assure you they are not stupid or ignorant of game economics." I forget.. what are you saying - at one moment you say grinding makes all this money and that is how the non-hacking gold sellers get their money then you claim that.. that slicing was too time consuming. Pressing a skill button - selecting a crew - clicking another button is.. wait for it.. too time consuming. !??!!??!?!?!??!!? Realllllly. Especially if you get an app or similar to automate that? Too time consuming. Sure wilbur.

 

What is easier to automate: I say A - you say otherwise:

A. a button click - drop down choice - button click

B. A world navigation bot program to not only find things on the map but also has combat protocols to automate combat.

 

at the same time avoiding any watchdog progs in place to prevent bots...

 

the answer is A bro. A

 

A is easier but both don't require much skill and was the standard in gold farming. This is how bot programs work in the first place.... And since both of the don't require much skill to do, the profit of B overshadow A by far so people will choose B.

[Bellaralo]

SO.

 

How long before Treasure Hunting will get nerfed?...

 

Just a question, but since the nerf for slicing isnt TH lockboxes (with the chance at loot) more profitable now then the slicing lockboxes?

 

I know I sound silly, and I have a VERY low level TH alt. But his level 1 lockboxes bring back on average the cost or MORE of the mission + a sellable BOE (vendor!!) and I usually make like 300-500 credits for lowest tier of TH boxes? (I believe these are 3min or 4min missions)

 

I have been spamming TH on a low level all day.. and making alot more then Slicing..

 

Why is this possible?

 

-.-

Edited December 30, 2011 by Bellaralo

[LeperJack]

Id like to hear a non-slicer who is opposed to the nerf come on and explain their reasoning. And how it benefits them. because lets be honest, slicers hate it and justifiably so. You cant print extra money without doing more than sending your companion on a mission while running an instance. So lets hear the non slicers reason why slicing nerf is bad?

 

I am a non-slicer.

 

I gather via Underworld trading, treasure hunting, salvaging, and craft with Cybertech (which everyone seems to think is terrible.)

 

I make money that is impossible to make with slicing, because (pre-nerf) I was actually selling the things I make and only making things that sell. I sell excess materials, but i do not flood the market with hundreds of them at a time. For odd items, I create them only on special requests and the person pays no money but foots the "research" bill.

 

I hate the slicing nerf. Every day I make less and less money because there is less cash coming in for other players to buy my stuff.

 

I like being the guy who has his spaceship mods in three quarters of the ships in the server. I like my guildies not asking for loans. I like new players not complaining that everything is too expensive. I like having actual competition on the market. I like it when I ask someone how they're doing to not get back a response of "grinding to pay for the last two level's skills. haven't trained since 30."

 

The slicing nerf has removed all of this for me.

[Asherbub]

I don't want to burst your bubble but slicing doesn't make money anymore. In fact it makes you lose approximately 500 credits a mission. And if you are "LUCKY" you lose entire sum. Slicing was made for non-crafters so they could play the game and earn money now slicing is ruined. Even if you go looking for the lockboxes it is still not what it meant to be.

 

You only lose money if you run orange missions all of the time. I'm still making plenty of money off of slicing. Clearly it wasn't made for 'non-crafters', since it drops schematics. Have one companion run missions that earn slicing experience (if you aren't already maxed out) and have the others run bountiful and rich missions on lower tiers. You'll have much better results and still profit.

[The_Archon]

A level 15 player with half a million credits is nothing. Nothing.

 

Again: LOL!

 

I'm so happy you are here to share your stories of economic success with everyone. At level 15, how many credits would it take before you were actually impressed? I want to know.

[rocdogg]

I don't know of any other game that has a free-money skill or a craft with guaranteed profits. Slicing is still good for harvesting ground spawns, but this business about sending out companions for a guaranteed profit was silly. Other crafts go through ups and down where they are more or less profitable, but a free-money skill is an aberration.

 

Slicing could use something to make it more useful now that the free money is gone, since the market for augments is pretty small.

 

As for the amateur economists who think that giving them all the money was a good idea: They're the same ones who think trickle-down economics was a good idea.

 

Now that the free-money machine is broken, maybe we can get back to having a working economy. The prices will have gone down, but everything for which there is a demand will still get traded. I've made money on stuff I put up on the GTN since the nerf, and expect to do so in the future.

[LeperJack]

freaking LOL!

 

Aww... I'm sorry, son. I didn't realize I was typing for the reading impaired.

 

Lemme try this again in big letters:

 

5,760,000 credits per day is a highly optimal result available only via automation. It is also has zero growth potential and is available only to someone with 8 level 50 characters on the same server. It caps out and will never increase.

 

6-7,000,000 is a baseline return from just one avenue of another skill, is available with minimal automation and would allow the automation to continue to pursue other areas of money gathering as well, which in a 24 hour period could easily top another 3,000,000. This avenue also has growth potential that expands with the inflation it will create.

 

Basic math: 5,760,000 is less than 10,000,000

Basic economics: 5.76 million income that will never increase is inferior to 10,000,000 income that will increase relative to market inflation

Edited December 30, 2011 by LeperJack

[OdonKnight]

I am a non-slicer.

 

I gather via Underworld trading, treasure hunting, salvaging, and craft with Cybertech (which everyone seems to think is terrible.)

 

I make money that is impossible to make with slicing, because (pre-nerf) I was actually selling the things I make and only making things that sell. I sell excess materials, but i do not flood the market with hundreds of them at a time. For odd items, I create them only on special requests and the person pays no money but foots the "research" bill.

 

I hate the slicing nerf. Every day I make less and less money because there is less cash coming in for other players to buy my stuff.

 

I like being the guy who has his spaceship mods in three quarters of the ships in the server. I like my guildies not asking for loans. I like new players not complaining that everything is too expensive. I like having actual competition on the market. I like it when I ask someone how they're doing to not get back a response of "grinding to pay for the last two level's skills. haven't trained since 30."

 

The slicing nerf has removed all of this for me.

 

As angry and vehement as you are in defense of click button print money - you're claiming its purely altruistic, doesn't affect except indirectly, because one character of yours is a crafter (slicers can craft too (knowledge FTW)) and sells stuff a lot. This from a guy who hacked the interface.. just for curiosity sake to see max $$ per day allowances?

 

Gotta do it!

>>>>

Aww... I'm sorry, son. I didn't realize I was typing for the reading impaired.

 

Lemme try this again in big letters:

 

5,760,000 credits per day is a highly optimal result available only via automation. It is also has zero growth potential and is available only to someone with 8 level 50 characters on the same server. It caps out and will never increase.

 

6-7,000,000 is a baseline return from just one avenue of another skill, is available with minimal automation and would allow the automation to continue to pursue other areas of money gathering as well, which in a 24 hour period could easily top another 3,000,000. This avenue also has growth potential that expands with the inflation it will create.

 

Basic math: 5,760,000 is less than 10,000,000

>>>>

 

you do realize your straw-man, AGAIN, is based upon the false premise that slicers have no crafting skills and do no crafting.

 

Once again - you insulting people - me.. others.. is just a byproduct of you, indirectly, being inconvenienced by your slicing buyers drying up. Yeah bro - i believe you!

Edited December 30, 2011 by OdonKnight

[ZomgStarWars]

People don't need to spend money... so just because a person has more money doesn't mean they'll spend the money.

 

There are no real expenses in swtor so what are they spending money on?

 

Repairs, new abilities, vehicles, vanity items.

 

You can loot everything else, they just end up with more money.

[BigDras]

To LEPERJACK

 

Hhmmm...interesting proposition.

 

I am a non-sclicer and in theory I don't like tinkering with economies unless we know things are screwed. As per my previous post, the individual slicer is not proven to be a long-term detriment to the economy...way to early to tell so (although BW may have solid data on this, we don't). We would need better analysis on the purchasing power parity of those credits.

 

My issue is the cash sprint...why do people have to screw around with so many alts and make slicing such an issue...human nature perhaps?

 

So, to answer: no on the nerf IF the alt issue could be solved.

 

Otherwise yes, but that is likely to make things more difficult for crafters as cash liquidity dries up. Perhaps..we'll see.

 

Note: I was leveling my L14 BH with my mate tonight and had to keep borrowing cash to make pots. It is clear that crafting profitably will require discipline.

[NomadTidian]

You only lose money if you run orange missions all of the time. I'm still making plenty of money off of slicing. Clearly it wasn't made for 'non-crafters', since it drops schematics. Have one companion run missions that earn slicing experience (if you aren't already maxed out) and have the others run bountiful and rich missions on lower tiers. You'll have much better results and still profit.

 

Lol. Obviously you aren't level 40+ yet. Slicing does not make you any money at all. In fact, I usually lose 100-200 credits per lockbox mission. I don't need that when I have a 140K repair bill every few hours.

 

Also, all of you people that sell your crafting items on the AH, don't expect people to buy them anymore. You *****ed and complained, and now no one has credits to afford any of it.

 

Note to Bioware: Don't try and "fix" the economy of a new MMO within the first month. Why? Well, lets see. Most people haven't made it to endgame yet, so they don't know the money sink that repairing is. They ***** and moan about people getting so much money before level 20, yet when they hit level 50, they have NO idea how much money it will cost to repair your items after a few hours of questing, not to mention the expensive 50-100K per level you have to spend JUST on training.

 

All you knee-jerk cry babies that panic because your stuff won't sell, you may have just ruined the economy. Oh, btw, you're probably the ones that are going to drop the game after the free month anyway.

 

Never listen to the forums, Bioware. Statistically, it's stupid. Anyone that has taken a high school statistics class knows that judging based on forum reactions is pretty bad.

 

And just for the lulz, I'm going to make this my sig:

Pre-nerf:

 

-Slicing at low levels was broken

 

-Slicing at high levels was not broken

 

Post-nerf:

 

-Slicing at low levels is now broken

 

-Slicing at high levels is no broken

 

I have a level 47 Sith warrior with maxed out slicing. Post nerf I was able to buy my crafting materials, make ridiculous repairs, and was able to afford fairly good gear for my main companion and myself, but I never saw over 300K. At higher levels, 400 slicing was NEVER broken due to the expensiveness of just repairing and keeping your gear up to date. At lower levels, though, I was paying for myself and two other friends for all their training and such because I had so much cash. I admit, 300 slicing at level 20 was broken. 400 slicing at level 47 was not. Now, I can't really do anything, slicing is just a useless money sink, not even worth the schematics or missions. Dropped it last night because it was going to end up costing me to much.

 

What's the solution?

 

Don't nerf slicing as a whole, that's stupid. level limit it. Make sure 400 slicing can't be used by level 20s. They can only send out on like...class 3 missions.

 

Slicing has absolutly no use now. People rarely use augments, making them useless. The rare schematic s and missions are useful, but if you have slicing you tend to need to buy crafting materials to replace the gathering skill(s) you didn't take to get slicing and spend money on useless mission in hopes you'll crit and get a purple mission? With 350K credits in training at level 50, I don't think so.

 

Also, it's a new MMO. Economy is always broken in new MMOs. The worst thing you could do is knee jerk it, and now I have a feeling the economy will be screwed even more.

[Jjix]

Ye you right Slicers have less money to buy the stuff other players sell and other players therefore also have less money.

BUT those other players also need less money cause less money in the economy means they can buy items cheaper also.

 

The thing is though that the large amount of money pushed into the game by slicers would just cause inflation ingame. All items would just cost more. An item that cost 100 credits would then cost 1000 credits to buy.

 

The only difference after the nerf is that slicers dont exlusively have the by far best (and maybe even only realistic) way of generating money.

 

Its all about balance, if one preofession trumps the others conderning revenue production then all other professions seem lame.

 

 

I understand why you could make this mistake to think extra money in the economy is of no use, and if it the economy were entirely relative it would be just as you say.

 

But the economy is not entirely relative, it has a solid foundation which is the cost of materials. These costs are fixed, they do not alter with inflation, they come from the game world, all that changes is their relative value to the rest of the economy.

 

Right now the costs of materials is very high making most players very poor relatively speaking. With inflation this poverty would disappear because the cost of materials would be driven down, making it so that even the poorest player could afford that shiny new blaster.

 

It is all about the cost of materials. Keeping inflation down before we have even brought down those costs in essence keeps the whole community stuck in a cycle of poverty, where everyone is complaining about how difficult it is to make money and that the crew skills seem pointless.

[OdonKnight]

Lol. Obviously you aren't level 40+ yet. Slicing does not make you any money at all. In fact, I usually lose 100-200 credits per lockbox mission. I don't need that when I have a 140K repair bill every few hours.

 

Also, all of you people that sell your crafting items on the AH, don't expect people to buy them anymore. You *****ed and complained, and now no one has credits to afford any of it.

 

Note to Bioware: Don't try and "fix" the economy of a new MMO within the first month. Why? Well, lets see. Most people haven't made it to endgame yet, so they don't know the money sink that repairing is. They ***** and moan about people getting so much money before level 20, yet when they hit level 50, they have NO idea how much money it will cost to repair your items after a few hours of questing, not to mention the expensive 50-100K per level you have to spend JUST on training.

 

All you knee-jerk cry babies that panic because your stuff won't sell, you may have just ruined the economy. Oh, btw, you're probably the ones that are going to drop the game after the free month anyway.

 

Never listen to the forums, Bioware. Statistically, it's stupid. Anyone that has taken a high school statistics class knows that judging based on forum reactions is pretty bad.

 

And just for the lulz, I'm going to make this my sig:

Pre-nerf:

 

-Slicing at low levels was broken

 

-Slicing at high levels was not broken

 

Post-nerf:

 

-Slicing at low levels is now broken

 

-Slicing at high levels is no broken

 

I have a level 47 Sith warrior with maxed out slicing. Post nerf I was able to buy my crafting materials, make ridiculous repairs, and was able to afford fairly good gear for my main companion and myself, but I never saw over 300K. At higher levels, 400 slicing was NEVER broken due to the expensiveness of just repairing and keeping your gear up to date. At lower levels, though, I was paying for myself and two other friends for all their training and such because I had so much cash. I admit, 300 slicing at level 20 was broken. 400 slicing at level 47 was not. Now, I can't really do anything, slicing is just a useless money sink, not even worth the schematics or missions. Dropped it last night because it was going to end up costing me to much.

 

What's the solution?

 

Don't nerf slicing as a whole, that's stupid. level limit it. Make sure 400 slicing can't be used by level 20s. They can only send out on like...class 3 missions.

 

Slicing has absolutly no use now. People rarely use augments, making them useless. The rare schematic s and missions are useful, but if you have slicing you tend to need to buy crafting materials to replace the gathering skill(s) you didn't take to get slicing and spend money on useless mission in hopes you'll crit and get a purple mission? With 350K credits in training at level 50, I don't think so.

 

Also, it's a new MMO. Economy is always broken in new MMOs. The worst thing you could do is knee jerk it, and now I have a feeling the economy will be screwed even more.

 

I respectfully disagree. Plus you saying it was all due to crybabies perhaps stems from frustration of the gravy train disappearing? It has to be done. The click>go get money is way to destabilizing and way too tempting to gold sellers. It is just too easy and too easy to attempt to automate and/or remotely control/do crew missions when not "playing".

[Belkiratwo]

Read: http://wow.joystiq.com/category/gold-capped/

 

You'll learn many things including how virtual economies like in a game behave like real economies do - you know why - the people in the economies. The difference is the rule-set on them.

 

Slicing is like printing money = little time invested and $$$ created. Anything else is far more time consuming - less ROI in regards to time spent. The more of something there is the less it is worth.

 

 

You keep ignoring basic economic principles like NORMALIZATION.

 

2 week old economy yet people want to treat it like it is an established market.

 

All crying about "inflation" in an non-normalized market is nothing but pure rhetoric.

[The_Archon]

Aww... I'm sorry, son. I didn't realize I was typing for the reading impaired.

 

Lemme try this again in big letters:

 

Make em as big as you like, you're still laughable. Slicing was the easiest way to make fast credits by exploiting the game, it was not balanced with the other professions, hence it got adjusted.

 

All these rants are so entertaining. Inflation is good! Slicing is fixed income! I can't make any money anymore! Level 15 characters with 500k is nothing lol!

 

Just stop. You give me too much material.

[The_Archon]

Lol. Obviously you aren't level 40+ yet. Slicing does not make you any money at all.

 

I have a level 17 alt who opened a lockbox this morning AND IT HAD CREDITS IN IT!

 

What happened to yours man? I'd put in a trouble ticket saying all your boxes are empty.

[OdonKnight]

You keep ignoring basic economic principles like NORMALIZATION.

 

2 week old economy yet people want to treat it like it is an established market.

 

All crying about "inflation" in an non-normalized market is nothing but pure rhetoric.

 

 

you are correct good sir - BUT to properly study a market to make tweaks, especially for game balance - one must remove the printing press which will skew your results - plus attract gold farmers!

 

Is slicing fixed? No.

 

Is it where it needs to be? No.

 

but BW HAD to get rid of gold farmable printing press of press button make money.

[Gorgewall]

I don't need Slicers printing money to pump into the economy and buy my things, because I have other people doing the same thing by running quests and looting corpses. Last I checked, I didn't need 100 credits worth of ammo and armor repair kits to kill a spacecat worth 100 credits. Edited December 30, 2011 by Gorgewall