I've never seen a pvp mode more unbalanced (Rant)

[jontegg]

It astonishes me that warzone is this unplayable, I've played like 20 matches, not a single one has had balanced teams.

I can attack someone for 30 seconds, do basically no damage, they shoot me once and im dead, probably because im playing against people WHO HAVE PLAYED THE GAME FOR YEARS.

I'm not sure but i wouldn't be suprised if higher level gear gives you an advantage, which is *********** stupid unless it's a ranked mode

I play Destiny 2, a game that has a horrendously balanced pvp but this is so much worse, there everyone a chance because everyone is put onto a similar level, gear level is made the same.

[Enticy]

There are a lot of problems with the PvP in this game for sure. But what you’ve described is an issue of gearing and skill. Higher level gear is not that hard to get in this game, at least not as compared to other MMOs out there. I suggest you look at some guides, figure out your class, and get yourself geared up. This game does not reward simple button mashing or ability spamming.

[jontegg]

There are a lot of problems with the PvP in this game for sure. But what you’ve described is an issue of gearing and skill. Higher level gear is not that hard to get in this game, at least not as compared to other MMOs out there. I suggest you look at some guides, figure out your class, and get yourself geared up. This game does not reward simple button mashing or ability spamming.

My problem is more with the matchmaking and i guess my lack of experience with the game. I could also voice my opinion in a better way now that I've calmed down instead of doing it after I've been tilted as hell. My problem is that someone like me who hasnt played much, doesn't have much knowledge, and doesn't have the best gear, can match with someone who has played the game for a long time has alot of gear

Edited January 29, 2022 by jontegg

[ZUHFB]

Isn't this the pure definition of PvP and balanced classes? You complain about being killed by better players, which is absolutely normal and logical, instead of just broken classes. Sure there are premade setups that are broken *cough* double AP, Immortal and Corruption *cough* but thats a premade - they would still **** on everyone no matter what class.

 

Or am I wrong? You are tilted because you are not as good as someone that killed you? I don't see how that is unfair or bad game design.

[easyandrew]

Thanks to so many ``guides``,from fat russians or inbred sofa queens,,,pvp is predictable and yes even for most op`s,,for me it is just the case of the daily or weekly rewards do not justify the fact that you only gain wen you win,,which is a 50/50 % so I turned to GSF matches,.even with the amount of people who do nothing at least I get rewards that are at my level and not 2 slot full of 300`s,,,what I meant by `guides`,,everyone is basicly copying the ``openers`` and follow ups,,just pop your jesus button or run thru them till their hardest hits are over

[jontegg]

Isn't this the pure definition of PvP and balanced classes? You complain about being killed by better players, which is absolutely normal and logical, instead of just broken classes. Sure there are premade setups that are broken *cough* double AP, Immortal and Corruption *cough* but thats a premade - they would still **** on everyone no matter what class.

 

Or am I wrong? You are tilted because you are not as good as someone that killed you? I don't see how that is unfair or bad game design.

 

I know im bad at the game, thats why my problem is with the matchmaking and how i can get matched up against players that are 100 times better than me.

Thats why i compared it with Destiny, the better players will **** on the new people, but they still have a chance to kill them back. So basically what im saying is that the ttk is way to *********** long for a bad player to kill a good player.

[KyeXema]

Idk about all of you but i love pvp in this game, thats the whole reason i play this game, yeah it's not perfect but it's great imo, ranked is the issue if you ask me

[TrixxieTriss]

OP, the issue is the matchmaking algorithm isn’t setup properly and even if it was, there aren’t enough players in the queue for the matchmaking to have a chance of working properly.

BioWare has continuously run off PvPers in this game since 5.0 was released with their stupid bloody design decisions and policies.

Before that, we had a relatively stable pvp population that stayed playing even when pvers left between expansion.

Ever since 5.0 was released with the removal of pvp gearing system and moving the west coast server to the east, we have had one stupid design decision after another from BioWare.

That and the lack of reg community consultation and neglect to reg pvp has led us to this situation.

There is nothing BioWare can do now will fix the player numbers.

The games now gone past a critical population point that it’s impossible for BioWare to increase numbers in pvp.

And with 7.0 it looks like BioWare are once again set on driving more players from the game.

So that means pvp population will decline even faster and matchmaking is pointless.

Edited January 31, 2022 by TrixxieTriss

[TevosisHot]

OP, the issue is the matchmaking algorithm isn’t setup properly and even if it was, there aren’t enough players in the queue for the matchmaking to have a chance of working properly.

BioWare has continuously run off PvPers in this game since 5.0 was released with their stupid bloody design decisions and policies.

Before that, we had a relatively stable pvp population that stayed playing even when pvers left between expansion.

Ever since 5.0 was released with the removal of pvp gearing system and moving the west coast server to the east, we have had one stupid design decision after another from BioWare.

That and the lack of reg community consultation and neglect to reg pvp has led us to this situation.

There is nothing BioWare can do now will fix the player numbers.

The games now gone past a critical population point that it’s impossible for BioWare to increase numbers in pvp.

And with 7.0 it looks like BioWare are once again set on driving more players from the game.

So that means pvp population will decline even faster and matchmaking is pointless.

 

Sure as hell certain guilds doing nothing but premade on the mid bracket doesnt *********** help with that, it's either get farmed by level 40s on lowbie get farmed by the seal clubbers at mids with set bonus gear and level 74 or jump directly at 75 where you might as well pray you get an ability off before everyone and their mothers starts melting you.

 

I pity new pvp players in this game now tbh, used to be such a fun mode years ago but now is just a jungle.

The old brackets were a lot better for people to learn to pvp but as you said there's not enough people playing anymore for this **** to get better.

[ZUHFB]

OP, the issue is the matchmaking algorithm isn’t setup properly and even if it was, there aren’t enough players in the queue for the matchmaking to have a chance of working properly.

 

This is not true, the matchmaking is working as intended and in my opinion fair.

For regs there just is not such a thing as matchmaking since there is no value to measure someone's individual skill level to make the game balanced. Valor is meaningless, gear is meaningless, PvP-Kills are meaningless and medals are meaningless. How would you even start to balance regs? And for what reason even?

For ranked it works just fine since there is such a value and only good players, and snave, are complaining about matchmaking because they are the actual players getting low rated players in their teams, which they have to carry. However this is great for the lower rated players because they actually stand a chance at winning the game! Do you honestly think that if you would be rated with players of equal elo vs a team of players of a different equal elo the games would be fair? No! 1200 aka new players, and snave, would get obliterated every game - it would be boring for both sides!

If you remove ranked and make unranked have rating, do you actually think most teams of 4 would stand a chance vs two good ranked players? I don't think so - as a regstar you really shouldn't want ranked to get removed.

 

Honestly, most regs are like two monkeys playing basketball - they don't know what they are doing but if they don't get the banana for winning they get mad and rage even though they did nothing to win, but in their head they think they had a huge impact standing in vanish the whole game. But thats not enough, the losing monkey also accuses the winning monkey of hacking or saying his basket is lower and the monkey is 0.2cm tallers and it is just outragous and unfair and honestly the devs should just remove the entire basketball field.

[Nickodemous]

Honestly, most regs are like two monkeys playing basketball - they don't know what they are doing but if they don't get the banana for winning they get mad and rage even though they did nothing to win, but in their head they think they had a huge impact standing in vanish the whole game. But thats not enough, the losing monkey also accuses the winning monkey of hacking or saying his basket is lower and the monkey is 0.2cm tallers and it is just outragous and unfair and honestly the devs should just remove the entire basketball field.

 

This made me laugh. Great analogy!

[TrixxieTriss]

This is not true, the matchmaking is working as intended and in my opinion fair.

For regs there just is not such a thing as matchmaking since there is no value to measure someone's individual skill level to make the game balanced. Valor is meaningless, gear is meaningless, PvP-Kills are meaningless and medals are meaningless. How would you even start to balance regs?

 

The matchmaking algorithm has never worked properly, even when we had more people. The fact that BioWare is so secretive about it, but open about ranked matchmaking should tell you enough to realise they don’t want us scrutinising it. Their excuse that people would exploit it is bull crap.

[septru]

The matchmaking algorithm has never worked properly, even when we had more people. The fact that BioWare is so secretive about it, but open about ranked matchmaking should tell you enough to realise they don’t want us scrutinising it. Their excuse that people would exploit it is bull crap.

 

BioWare isn't open about their ranked matchmaking algorithm. They have tried to keep it a secret, just like regs. However, players have figured out how the algorithm works on their own.

 

If you want to ask BioWare to fix their matchmaking algorithm you need to figure out how it works. Otherwise just telling them "it doesn't work" doesn't help them narrow down what doesn't work. It's an unfortunate catch 22, but justifiable one.

[TrixxieTriss]

BioWare isn't open about their ranked matchmaking algorithm. They have tried to keep it a secret, just like regs. However, players have figured out how the algorithm works on their own.

 

If you want to ask BioWare to fix their matchmaking algorithm you need to figure out how it works. Otherwise just telling them "it doesn't work" doesn't help them narrow down what doesn't work. It's an unfortunate catch 22, but justifiable one.

 

You are 100% right about it being catch-22. Which is why I think they keep it more secret than the ranked algorithm because they don’t want us to prove how rubbish it is. They have an open rating system for Ranked, but hide the reg rating (supposedly to stop people exploiting it ). It makes absolutely zero sense because you get nothing from regs and more people are likely to exploit ranked. That is unless you take into account that they know it’s a rubbish algorithm and they don’t want us proving it. Because then they might actually have to fix it.

Edited February 1, 2022 by TrixxieTriss

[ZUHFB]

You are 100% right about it being catch-22. Which is why I think they keep it more secret than the ranked algorithm because they don’t want us to prove how rubbish it is. They have an open rating system for Ranked, but hide the reg rating (supposedly to stop people exploiting it ). It makes absolutely zero sense because you get nothing from regs and more people are likely to exploit ranked. That is unless you take into account that they know it’s a rubbish algorithm and they don’t want us proving it. Because then they might actually have to fix it.

 

In my opinion the only matchmaking that would work for regs would be straight up randomness. How would you consider premades, how alts, how players that don't care about objectives how any of it? Even if you could, there is nothing more fair than randomness. And honestly, what haven't the players found out yet? I am sure there is no matchmaking for regs and its just straight up random, because you are right - if there would be one the players would know by now, since it would be bad.

Edited February 1, 2022 by ZUHFB

[TrixxieTriss]

In my opinion the only matchmaking that would work for regs would be straight up randomness. How would you consider premades, how alts, how players that don't care about objectives how any of it? Even if you could, there is nothing more fair than randomness. And honestly, what haven't the players found out yet? I am sure there is no matchmaking for regs and its just straight up random, because you are right - if there would be one the players would know by now, since it would be bad.

 

There is matchmaking, it’s just bad. Partly from the algorithm and partly because the population isn’t large enough.

 

You are correct with regards to premades because you really can’t properly balance or matchmake properly while ever you have premades in the queue against solo players. It’s why premades shouldn’t be in the queue against solo players. It’s why you don’t have Premades vs solos in ranked. Because the matchmaking can never work properly while they are.

 

But BioWare don’t ever seem likely to split the queues for regs. So there are other options (like getting rid of premades full stop or making the algorithm force premade vs premade games and slow down or speed up pops to match them up.

 

I also agree that BioWare can’t matchmake properly under these circumstances. So it would be better if they got rid off most of the matchmaking algorithm and made it random. I say most of it because there are some parts they should still try to do.

 

1. Limit how many healers and tanks per side and try and balance out the numbers (not the skill lvl).

 

2. They should always try and put all premades against other premades even if it slows down the pop times for the premade players. The only time solo players should be with premades is when there are odd numbers in the sides because the premades aren’t 4 man.

 

The rest of the matchmaking should be random as it’s probably more fair than a poorly optimised algorithm trying to decide how to balance the teams.

Edited February 1, 2022 by TrixxieTriss

[septru]

They have an open rating system for Ranked, but hide the reg rating.

 

They are not open about their rating system in ranked.

[TrixxieTriss]

They are not open about their rating system in ranked.

 

Um, I beg to differ. Case in point : https://www.swtor.com/leaderboards

 

You can clearly see and track everyone’s ELO in ranked. You can see how many losses and wins and there is even a graph to help.

 

You can’t even find out what your own personal hidden ELO is in regs. Like it’s some top secret information that would make everyone exploit regs if they knew it

 

That is what I mean by more open.

 

BioWare should just give everyone a Warzone ELO rating and Arena ELO rating and publish it all on the leader boards. After the initial shock, people would get used to it as just being pvp.

 

You would no longer have a ranked and regs community because it would all be one community. Then you could offer ranked rewards for Warzones as well as Arena. It might actually make some people try winning Warzones again instead of scoreboard preening.

 

And if the matchmaking ELO system worked properly, you’d only have the better players in Warzones playing each other most of the time and the newbies would be put against other newbies.

 

You could also add a premade Warzone queue, the same as you have a premade arena queue

Edited February 1, 2022 by TrixxieTriss

[septru]

Oh that's what you mean by open... sure, I guess. Bu do you think most players would want to see their elo. I proposed practically the same thing a while back and one of the arguments against it was that casual players play regs for a reason. Most casuals don't want the stress of watching their rating go up or down. Even if it doesn't mean anything. Edited February 1, 2022 by septru

[TrixxieTriss]

Oh that's what you mean by open... sure, I guess. Bu do you think most players would want to see their elo. I proposed practically the same thing a while back and one of the arguments against it was that casual players play regs for a reason. Most casuals don't want the stress of watching their rating go up or down. Even if it doesn't mean anything.

 

If you didn’t call it ranked and it was just called pvp rating and everyone had it, then it really wouldn’t matter if we could see our own and not others. They could of course limit the public leaderboards to top 500 of players (number to be determined) of each type (ie, WZ and Arena). That would remove a great amount of social anxiety for some casual players, while allowing the more serious players an opportunity to strive to get on the public leaderboards like we have now. But at the same time, the community would be less split up in terms of elitists and reg attitude. I think people would end up becoming desensitised to the idea of a rating in no time at all. And you’d have some players who specialise in Arena, WZs and some that do both. I think it would even revitalise proper WZs participation instead of people epreening the scoreboards.

Edited February 1, 2022 by TrixxieTriss

[ZUHFB]

If you didn’t call it ranked and it was just called pvp rating and everyone had it, then it really wouldn’t matter if we could see our own and not others. They could of course limit the public leaderboards to top 500 of players (number to be determined) of each type (ie, WZ and Arena). That would remove a great amount of social anxiety for some casual players, while allowing the more serious players an opportunity to strive to get on the public leaderboards like we have now. But at the same time, the community would be less split up in terms of elitists and reg attitude. I think people would end up becoming desensitised to the idea of a rating in no time at all. And you’d have some players who specialise in Arena, WZs and some that do both. I think it would even revitalise proper WZs participation instead of people epreening the scoreboards.

 

I don't like this idea, if I want to just try a class or do conquest I don't want there to be a number judging me - that is what I play ranked for. If you get bothered by people actually having fun in WZ's instead of standing around waiting for the game to be over I would suggest to play objectives alone, because you are free to do what you want - but I don't have to be bored out of my mind playing objectives. If you throw the huttball to me and its 20s walk to get it over the line I'll ofc try to score but only for respect for your time, not because I enjoy walking in a straight line.

 

Besides that most people don't even understand hypergates, hypergates is in its core only about killing the other team and nothing more. If you stand there defending with 5 people you will lose the game AND I have to pepega into 4 people just to try out my class, well thank these reg players for they cannot even understand their own gamemode.

 

And come on, social anxiety in an online game? Anxiety from what? Being judged by someone you don't know nor have to care about? Everyone can play how they want, regs are supposed to be fun and objectives are just not fun;

Voidstar: is it fun to walk in vanish to an object, click it and repeat this a few times? No, its not - it doesn't make you a good player either.

Yavin: its not fun to stand around an objective, hell yea the enemy operative zapped you wow action! Oh, he did it again - oh he can't do proper 1v1 opener - oh, 45s later he is dead. Whey! What great fun defeating one bad!

Alderaan: Its just Yavin.

Huttball: Do you like stacking up in huge cleaves and getting aoe'd down like its dday? Then you should grab that ball because instead of killing the attackers your team will be gracious enough to body block all bullets and lightning your way! Oh, that doesn't work? Mhm weird.

Oh! A teammate has the ball, better go close to him so I can defend him, ah whoopsydaisy I died to someone I didn't even see, well at least I stood close to the ball! I did my part.

 

See with these examples how reg players are using up all their copium in a reg just because they know they won't be the top of the scoreboard so they don't even try. Usually the players on top actually do the most for your team since they also tend to take the most damage without dying, but I guess nobody ever checks that. Furthermore they kill the copium players that don't even fight back, or at least I would not call what they are doing fighting its more jumping and spamming auto attacks since they are not interested in making their epeen larger... Sometimes people just want to fight, to battle! Thats why they queued PvP in the first place!

[TrixxieTriss]

I don't like this idea, if I want to just try a class or do conquest I don't want there to be a number judging me - that is what I play ranked for. If you get bothered by people actually having fun in WZ's instead of standing around waiting for the game to be over I would suggest to play objectives alone, because you are free to do what you want - but I don't have to be bored out of my mind playing objectives. If you throw the huttball to me and its 20s walk to get it over the line I'll ofc try to score but only for respect for your time, not because I enjoy walking in a straight line.

 

Besides that most people don't even understand hypergates, hypergates is in its core only about killing the other team and nothing more. If you stand there defending with 5 people you will lose the game AND I have to pepega into 4 people just to try out my class, well thank these reg players for they cannot even understand their own gamemode.

 

And come on, social anxiety in an online game? Anxiety from what? Being judged by someone you don't know nor have to care about? Everyone can play how they want, regs are supposed to be fun and objectives are just not fun;

Voidstar: is it fun to walk in vanish to an object, click it and repeat this a few times? No, its not - it doesn't make you a good player either.

Yavin: its not fun to stand around an objective, hell yea the enemy operative zapped you wow action! Oh, he did it again - oh he can't do proper 1v1 opener - oh, 45s later he is dead. Whey! What great fun defeating one bad!

Alderaan: Its just Yavin.

Huttball: Do you like stacking up in huge cleaves and getting aoe'd down like its dday? Then you should grab that ball because instead of killing the attackers your team will be gracious enough to body block all bullets and lightning your way! Oh, that doesn't work? Mhm weird.

Oh! A teammate has the ball, better go close to him so I can defend him, ah whoopsydaisy I died to someone I didn't even see, well at least I stood close to the ball! I did my part.

 

See with these examples how reg players are using up all their copium in a reg just because they know they won't be the top of the scoreboard so they don't even try. Usually the players on top actually do the most for your team since they also tend to take the most damage without dying, but I guess nobody ever checks that. Furthermore they kill the copium players that don't even fight back, or at least I would not call what they are doing fighting its more jumping and spamming auto attacks since they are not interested in making their epeen larger... Sometimes people just want to fight, to battle! Thats why they queued PvP in the first place!

 

You do realise that there is already a number applied, but BioWare keeps it secret (their own admission).

And did you miss the part in my post that said it would be kept private except for the top 500? So no one else would see it except you.

And unless you are so anxious about seeing your own rating, none of the above would affect you unless you made it into the top 500.

Edited February 2, 2022 by TrixxieTriss

[Bullyabass]

..... I don't have to be bored out of my mind playing objectives....

 

Then don't play warzones

 

The matchmaking is terrible in regs, there's something that equates tanks and healers to the extent that one team can have 2 healers and the other team 2 tanks or one side can have 4 operatives and the other none and there's the "consolation" arena pop with 3 healers on one team.

 

Warzones are more complex to balance than arenas but not fixing it feeds the "bad matchmaking - bad games - fewer players - bad matchmaking" cycle.

[ZUHFB]

Then don't play warzones.

 

I don't have a choice do I? What would I do as a ranked player that wants to try something new: e.g. Sniper main but I want to try Merc so I just go into ranked with my merc and just die? Ye I don't think so.

I won't play objectives because playing objectives actually makes you worse at the game - so no, I don't think I will 'just not play warzones' and belive me, if there would be a choice I'd only queue arenas but there is just nothing I can do about it.

[TrixxieTriss]

I don't have a choice do I? What would I do as a ranked player that wants to try something new: e.g. Sniper main but I want to try Merc so I just go into ranked with my merc and just die? Ye I don't think so.

I won't play objectives because playing objectives actually makes you worse at the game - so no, I don't think I will 'just not play warzones' and belive me, if there would be a choice I'd only queue arenas but there is just nothing I can do about it.

 

How does playing the objectives make you worse at the game. To me that sounds like you aren’t a well rounded player because good players can do both.