Everyone get your backsides on PTS!

[DWho]

"There aren't enough people on PTS to have group content happening" isn't a complaint as much as it is a fact. I assume you..actually want more people there too? ensuring it gathers a crowd isn't job of individual players quite as much as it is the job of BW. Or at least, BW without a doubt would be much more efficient at this job. Couple of cool titles for errybody, maybe cartel packs if they really wanna see it crowded. Problem solved. Why would this be an issue again?

 

How do you define enough participation to get these "shinies". Just log in, compete in X group content matches, play for X hours. There are a lot of people who will just log in to get the rewards and then log out and not provide any feedback. They probably won't even care about the content they are participating in just the reward they are getting (just like it was during GS), which makes evaluating it problematic at best. What do you give to the players that have already spent their time testing "solo" content. Don't they deserve rewards too. As you can see, it is a slippery slope. I'm not against rewards but they should be just that, rewards, not enticements. What Bioware should do is give everyone who participated a reward after the fact but not tell anyone what it is until the PTS closes. That way you are rewarding those with an interest in the game and not just achievement/reward seekers.

[xordevoreaux]

If there aren't enough people on PTS, then logic and common sense would say to find a way to incentivize people to join it. Thus, a reward system of some kind.

The intangible becomes the tangible when the game improves. Should be reward enough for anyone.

[xordevoreaux]

Think about rewards for getting onto PTS this way: We've had rewards in the past, but if we get habituated to being tossed candy every time we log onto PTS, people will blare to the heavens on these forums that they will hold their contribution to PTS hostage, demanding better and better candy every cycle.

 

Near-term or Immediate gratification for getting candy for doing something isn't why we're on PTS.

We're there to improve the game over time.

[Gilrenna]

The intangible becomes the tangible when the game improves. Should be reward enough for anyone.

 

But it's not unless most people agree that there are more than enough players on PTS. Yet I'm not getting that impression. A nice idea you have, but human behavior doesn't really work that way. I mean, if the game were completely unplayable for everyone not involved in PTS, then yeah, sure, that would be incentive enough, but we already know it isn't. And the game will be playable at some point regardless of PTS participation. It always has been.

 

What should be reward enough and what is reward enough are usually two different things.

[Savej]

Because the characters on the live server that won't be wiped will benefit from feedback based on playing the ones on PTS who are.

 

But you see that's not fun at all. I can do a little of it but not for hours/days/weeks. It feels like work. Unpaid work. The little things that drive me (and those like me) to "keep going" are completely lacking on the pts.

[Stradlin]

How do you define enough participation to get these "shinies". Just log in, compete in X group content matches, play for X hours.

 

Yes,this is exactly how I'd define it. They've done this stuff number of times in past and it has worked pretty well I recon.

Two weeks of Pvp/GSf focus. (have people complete the relevant dailies/weeklies) Two weeks of Ops and FP focus. Some solo content goals sprinkled among everything. Goodies for ppl who ticked all boxes when month is through.

 

Disable guild creation but have a dev make one huge guild on imp and rep side so there is a mock up conq event running too.

 

If 90% of people care nothing of content and are there only for rewards, that 10% already marks a huge imrpvement to what we have now.

Edited December 10, 2021 by Stradlin

[casirabit]

But it's not unless most people agree that there are more than enough players on PTS. Yet I'm not getting that impression. A nice idea you have, but human behavior doesn't really work that way. I mean, if the game were completely unplayable for everyone not involved in PTS, then yeah, sure, that would be incentive enough, but we already know it isn't. And the game will be playable at some point regardless of PTS participation. It always has been.

 

What should be reward enough and what is reward enough are usually two different things.

 

I have always gone to PTS to test things that I know that will affect my playstyle. I do not do any type of PVP and therefore no reward, on the PTS, will get me to test that as it is not something I do. I do run flashpoints so I will do that but people are going to test things they are interested in and rewards may or may not help that.

[xordevoreaux]

But you see that's not fun at all. I can do a little of it but not for hours/days/weeks. It feels like work. Unpaid work. The little things that drive me (and those like me) to "keep going" are completely lacking on the pts.

 

As a guild leader, I hold to the belief that the higher in an organization one rises, the more one should expect to set aside one's own goals for those of that organization. Sometimes that means setting aside fun.

But that's the investment in my guild I'm willing to make and have made without interruption leading various guilds since 2007.

 

Equally, I see as part of a long-term investment providing feedback on PTS.

 

I'm willing to put aside part of my fun for the sake of improving the game, and I'm not going to measure, spoonful by spoonful, what I may or may not think that time contributed to. I just do it.

Edited December 10, 2021 by xordevoreaux

[Purge]

What about this excuse...? Umm, I dont wanna. Seems legit.

[TrixxieTriss]

How about hundreds of posts about how gutted and utterly unplayable is DPS Jugg/Guardian. How much more feedback is needed for blind eyes and deaf years?

 

If you look at the change notes in the PTS section, you’ll notice they have infact made changes to Jugg DPS. Now would be the perfect time to get on and see if those changes are an improvement and if more need to happen before 7.0 releases.

 

 

Guardian/Juggernaut

[NEW] Rage / Focus

Rebalanced and modified various ability tree passives.

Indignant Rumination / Focused Meditation now grants a cooldown buff upon activating Enrage / Combat Focus.

Domination / Critical Conditions now additionally allows Dominate / Felling Blow to stack up to 2 times. Dominate / Felling stacks increase your critical hit chance of Raging Burst / Focused Burst by 100%.

[NEW] Vengeance / Vigilance

Various balance changes.

[NEW] Immortal / Defense

Various balance changes.

Vengeance / Vigilance in development mods are now implemented:

Skewering Strike and Leaping Strike modify Impale and Overhead Slash

Endure Pain / Enure is now standard, gained at level 30

Furious Focus / Force Clarity is now a choice at 35 for the non-tank Disciplines, replacing the Intimidating Roar / Awe choice

Intimidating Roar / Awe is now a choice at 70, replacing the Endure Pain / Enure choice

Guardian Leap now a baseline ability for all disciplines

Defense Guardians now can choose between two passives or the Thwart utility at level 35

The Blade Barrage modification at level 20 is now Debilitating Slashes, adding an immobilize to Blade Barrage and causing it to generate 1 focus.

Vigilance discipline mods have been slightly altered.

“Searing Meditation” passive has been redesigned

Focus discipline mods have been slightly altered.

Various in-development mods have now been added and are functional.

Saber Throw is now standard across all Guardian disciplines, gained at level 35.

Enure / Endure Pain is now a standard ability for the Defense discipline, gained at level 30.

Enure / Endure Pain now removes all cleansable effects when activated, for all disciplines.

Cyclone Slash / Force Sweep replaces Saber Throw as the level 20 choice. Its damage has been increased by 10%.

Trailblazer / Path Carver utility has been removed from Guardians.

Unyielding Justice / Extending Roar utility has been added as a choice. This improves Force Push damage and increases the range of Blade Storm.

Preparation / Seething Hatred is now becoming a standard passive across all disciplines without having to take the utility. This allows a faster and better PVE experience.

This utility resets the cooldown of Combat Focus, Force Charge, and Saber Throw when out of combat.

Stalwart Defense / Hardened Defense is now being included in the utility choices. This serves to replace where Preparation / Seething Hatred was. This utility improves AOE defense for DPS disciplines and defense while stunned for the Tank discipline.

Guardian Leap / Intercede is now a level 35 choice for Defense discipline only. It replaces Awe from the old PTS build.

Defense Guardians can now opt into Awe / Intimidating Roar at level 70. This replaces the previous choice of Enure, which is now standard for Defense Guardians.

Note that Enure is still an opt in choice for Focus and Vigilance disciplines at level 70.

Some Guardian utility choices have been shifted to different levels to account for the above changes.

 

 

 

Edited December 11, 2021 by TrixxieTriss

[Savej]

If you look at the change notes in the PTS section, you’ll notice they have infact made changes to Jugg DPS. Now would be the perfect time to get on and see if those changes are an improvement and if more need to happen before 7.0 releases.

 

Now my guardian on test has a choice of one of these:

 

Awe

Blade blitz

Saber reflect

 

My current guardian has had all of them since 2015.

If he wants force clarity he has to get rid of a root/snare purge.

For his snare he gets to snare with bladestorm or root with blade barrage.

Guard is gone (won't be missed but)

 

The current guardian on test is better than he has been but still heavily nerfed. Who do I complain to?

 

I would love to test him in pvp but there's only 13 lvl 80s on rep side and none of them are in pvp instances. Except for one running Esseles, none of them are in any potential group instances.

Edited December 11, 2021 by Savej

[ZionHalcyon]

No excuses this time around. Jump on it and test out the 7.0 features before it releases in February. Don't like what ya see? SAY SOMETHING! It's not often do you get this opportunity to affect change. The devs postponed the xpac because it wasn't ready before. Help them find things they didn't catch. Fresh eyes can see solutions. Seriously, put some skin in the game! Don't complain later when it's not what you expected or it's not what you like! Participate and see for your self or hold your tongue later!

 

THIS is the way.

 

I'm tired of people whining about changes when AT BEST, they spent no more than 5 minutes on PTS.

 

And if you ARE going to recommend changes, THEY HAVE THREADS IN THE PTS FORUM FOR FEEDBACK.

 

Throw your feedback in there!

 

Instead of clogging general forums with banal inane whining, go test on PTS! DO something!

 

Seriously, much needed thread - kudos to the op!

[ZionHalcyon]

Now my guardian on test has a choice of one of these:

 

Awe

Blade blitz

Saber reflect

 

My current guardian has had all of them since 2015.

If he wants force clarity he has to get rid of a root/snare purge.

For his snare he gets to snare with bladestorm or root with blade barrage.

Guard is gone (won't be missed but)

 

The current guardian on test is better than he has been but still heavily nerfed. Who do I complain to?

 

I would love to test him in pvp but there's only 13 lvl 80s on rep side and none of them are in pvp instances. Except for one running Esseles, none of them are in any potential group instances.

 

There are feedback threads in the PTS forums - how about complaining in the places meant for it where your feedback might actually do some good?

[casirabit]

Now my guardian on test has a choice of one of these:

 

Awe

Blade blitz

Saber reflect

 

My current guardian has had all of them since 2015.

If he wants force clarity he has to get rid of a root/snare purge.

For his snare he gets to snare with bladestorm or root with blade barrage.

Guard is gone (won't be missed but)

 

The current guardian on test is better than he has been but still heavily nerfed. Who do I complain to?

 

I would love to test him in pvp but there's only 13 lvl 80s on rep side and none of them are in pvp instances. Except for one running Esseles, none of them are in any potential group instances.

 

There should be specific forums for each class. I have posted in some of those before they closed PTS about some of the classes and I believe they are still there for any reports you need to make about the class.

[xordevoreaux]

Seriously, much needed thread - kudos to the op!

Agreed, best original post on the forums in the last 2 weeks at least.

Edited December 11, 2021 by xordevoreaux

[JattaGin]

No excuses this time around. Jump on it and test out the 7.0 features before it releases in February. Don't like what ya see? SAY SOMETHING! It's not often do you get this opportunity to affect change. The devs postponed the xpac because it wasn't ready before.

 

I'm sorry, but this is imho delusional.

 

Everything is already decided for 7.0. They will not change anything if we complain. The ONLY reason why 7.0 is delayed, is because they were not able to finish the things they already decided MONTHS ago.

 

Nothing you will complain about on the PTS will change a thing. Except bugs. You are being used as free labor for bugfixing.

 

Everyone who thinks that they delayed 7.0 because of our feedback and who hope that they will adjust things according to our wishes:

 

No, they won't.

 

You'd better prepare for a bad surprise, if you hope for such a thing.

 

The delay is, because they weren't able to finish the absolute minimum they had planned.

 

7.0 will be just as disastrous in February as it would have been next week. Again, it's only delayed, because they weren't able to finish their disaster in time.

 

I'm not participating in the PTS, because I have zero belief that my feedback would change a thing. Zero.

[JattaGin]

THIS is the way.

 

I'm tired of people whining about changes when AT BEST, they spent no more than 5 minutes on PTS.

 

And if you ARE going to recommend changes, THEY HAVE THREADS IN THE PTS FORUM FOR FEEDBACK.

 

Throw your feedback in there!

 

Instead of clogging general forums with banal inane whining, go test on PTS! DO something!

 

Seriously, much needed thread - kudos to the op!

 

You speak as if you did so much yourself during the last years. Where have you been? Right, you left the game. After a lot of whining on this very forum. Oh, the irony.

 

While we regular players kept providing feedback, played on the PTS, paid our monthly fees etc. ALL THE TIME!

 

Where were you?

 

Gone.

 

You have no right to complain about other players here. You, who abandoned this game, are part of the reason why the game is in the state it is in. Accept your responsibility and show humbleness instead of attacking other players.

[TonyTricicolo]

I look at the PTS in two folds.

 

I observe and report my findings. Whether they choose to use my report is up to them. I'd like to think it was a few people, including myself, who yelled loud enough to get the Rishi Stronghold fixed before release. They removed fake doors and added a living quarters in the side of the mountain.

 

I get first hand knowledge on what to expect when the update releases. This helps me plan my characters. It also gives me foresight to sift through the nonsense of second hand information that people spout on fleet. I can then pass on stuff I learnt so the people I play with will be better apprised.

 

Some may see otherwise, but for me the PTS has more positives than negatives.

[casirabit]

I look at the PTS in two folds.

 

I observe and report my findings. Whether they choose to use my report is up to them. I'd like to think it was a few people, including myself, who yelled loud enough to get the Rishi Stronghold fixed before release. They removed fake doors and added a living quarters in the side of the mountain.

 

I get first hand knowledge on what to expect when the update releases. This helps me plan my characters. It also gives me foresight to sift through the nonsense of second hand information that people spout on fleet. I can then pass on stuff I learnt so the people I play with will be better apprised.

 

Some may see otherwise, but for me the PTS has more positives than negatives.

 

Agreed and there have been some changes, especially in the sentinel from the last time it was on the PTS. I also heard that changes were done to the Guardian as well. While still not great for the guardian (based on what I have heard) at least some changes were done.

[DWho]

Agreed and there have been some changes, especially in the sentinel from the last time it was on the PTS. I also heard that changes were done to the Guardian as well. While still not great for the guardian (based on what I have heard) at least some changes were done.

 

The leveling aspect of the Guardian is much better. As far as the high level abilities, I don't think it is as bad as it was on the previous iteration of the PTS. It is lacking some of its uber powerful abilities but is certainly playable with some adjustments. While I would have preferred they leave the abilities as they were, what is on the PTS now seems to be a reasonable compromise.

[ShieldProtection]

I'm downloading on Steam so it is a bit faster, there is a entry on steam swtor store page with a link on top, right under the screenshots, click there to download it on Steam

[Savej]

The leveling aspect of the Guardian is much better. As far as the high level abilities, I don't think it is as bad as it was on the previous iteration of the PTS. It is lacking some of its uber powerful abilities but is certainly playable with some adjustments. While I would have preferred they leave the abilities as they were, what is on the PTS now seems to be a reasonable compromise.

 

It _is_ better. They did make changes I, and others, recommended. They got rid of guard for dps, cyclone slash is not a default ability anymore - buttons I could sacrifice. And we got guardian leap and the aoe taunt back (initially my guardian had also lost saber throw and focused defense which was lol and I had posts about those, too, but they were among the first things to be fixed). But every fight I tested I'm reaching for my reflect button. Just running around fleet I push by blade blitz button often. Nothing happens. Why not?

 

Group content doesn't pop, there aren't enough people but, as I pointed out, why would there be? My very educated guess is that guardians are going to get crushed in PVP. And raids will be far less patient. "Guardian? Sentinel? Those are healer sponges. Why can't you play commando, gunslinger or sage?"

 

There is no way to tweak that while still staying on the "guardians have to be nerfed" bandwagon which the PTS is on. Shell game feedback along the lines of "nerf this instead" has been played out. From what I remember there's been minimal if any feedback on any of the class threads on the PTS.

 

One person on this board attacks me every time he sees me post, I used to engage, he likes the attention I guess.

He's been on ignore.

Edited December 11, 2021 by Savej

[ExarSun]

Whoever says DPS Jugg/Guardian and for the most part Sentinel/Mara are playable in PVP is delusional, The "fixes" are cosmetic and do not take care of the ridiculousness that are ability paths on higher lvls of combat styles. For PvE it will be somewhat better, but no serious OPS group will want DPS Guardian/ Sentinel. Classes feels boring, gutted and heavily nerfed compared to other classes... having favorite classes, eh BW?

[Dekibra]

I look at the PTS in two folds.

 

I observe and report my findings. Whether they choose to use my report is up to them. I'd like to think it was a few people, including myself, who yelled loud enough to get the Rishi Stronghold fixed before release. They removed fake doors and added a living quarters in the side of the mountain.

 

I get first hand knowledge on what to expect when the update releases. This helps me plan my characters. It also gives me foresight to sift through the nonsense of second hand information that people spout on fleet. I can then pass on stuff I learnt so the people I play with will be better apprised.

 

Some may see otherwise, but for me the PTS has more positives than negatives.

 

Absolutely agree, these are the reasons I try out the PTS for quite some time now

[TrixxieTriss]

Whoever says DPS Jugg/Guardian and for the most part Sentinel/Mara are playable in PVP is delusional, The "fixes" are cosmetic and do not take care of the ridiculousness that are ability paths on higher lvls of combat styles. For PvE it will be somewhat better, but no serious OPS group will want DPS Guardian/ Sentinel. Classes feels boring, gutted and heavily nerfed compared to other classes... having favorite classes, eh BW?

 

Have you tested and provided said feed back in the pts forum or are you just going on what others are saying?