Devs, PLEASE listen to this request. I can guarantee pretty much EVERYONE wants it!

[TrixxieTriss]

They seem to remember an awful lot of random crap to me. Again, who in their right mind would be predicting that they'd need to remember what outcome your character had in the Malora quest on Korriban to be able to go back and reference it. Pretty sure you get different dialogue with her in JUS based on that. I'm not saying every choice everywhere is logged. Thats thousands by now. But I'm sure there ARE some that have been logged. So why not show it to us

 

And as Savej pointed out. You can already check the stuff they logged in the journal. So I’m not sure what extra you are asking for.

Edited December 2, 2021 by TrixxieTriss

[JakRoanin]

And as Savej pointed out. You can already check the stuff they logged in the journal. So I’m not sure what extra you are asking for.

 

Okay I wasn't going to post here because it is yet another round of, "I don't like the way you said that,". That said, playing through Ossus Master Gnost-Dural states that my very shiny LS SW killed Nomen Karr! Umm, no, he sent him to Tython to be healed and redeemed. I for one would love all my choices logged like they do in the Batman TellTale series!

[TrixxieTriss]

Okay I wasn't going to post here because it is yet another round of, "I don't like the way you said that,". That said, playing through Ossus Master Gnost-Dural states that my very shiny LS SW killed Nomen Karr! Umm, no, he sent him to Tython to be healed and redeemed. I for one would love all my choices logged like they do in the Batman TellTale series!

 

That’s the issue. The way they’ve logged some and not others means a lot of it is meaningless because it often contradicts itself.

If they’d had a database or even story log from the beginning it would have been a nice QOL feature that people could read through or go back and check.

But they didn’t do it and it’s impossible to retroactively do it for existing player characters when they’ve not even logged it for their own development functions.

And of course they could do it for new characters and new players. But how much work is involved in that and what’s the cost benefit compared to doing other things with those resources.

If BioWare really do intend to push a lot of legacy players from the game because they want new ones, then maybe there is a good cost benefit in doing it. I don’t know.

But it would seem to be technically impossible to retroactively do it for current characters because people can’t remember half their choices. Not even BioWare knows what half of those choices were.

Edited December 3, 2021 by TrixxieTriss

[JakRoanin]

That’s the issue. The way they’ve logged some and not others means a lot of it is meaningless because it often contradicts itself.

If they’d had a database or even story log from the beginning it would have been a nice QOL feature that people could read through or go back and check.

But they didn’t do it and it’s impossible to retroactively do it for existing player characters when they’ve not even logged it for their own development functions.

And of course they could do it for new characters and new players. But how much work is involved in that and what’s the cost benefit compared to doing other things with those resources.

If BioWare really do intend to push a lot of legacy players from the game because they want new ones, then maybe there is a good cost benefit in doing it. I don’t know.

But it would seem to be technically impossible to retroactively do it for the OP because he can’t remember half his choices.

 

I know nothing about tech. I'm the type of person who needs all tech instructions to be like the following:

 

Step 1. Click this icon

Step 2. Click this button

Step 3. Wait and pray it works.

 

I'm not saying this to brag, nor am I a stupid person, but technobbable outside of SCI-FI doesn't mean a thing to me. So, how SWTOR works, what the system can take, etc... I really don't know and don't care to know. The assertion that such a system would take too many 'resources' is in my mind flawed because unless the people who work in the guts of this system make a gold post saying, Sorry guys impossible, I just assume that even the most tech-savvy poster doesn't know what is possible or impossible, and how much 'resources' come into play making a change.

 

To me, a system that knows all the choices I personally made for each distinct character, would never be a waste. For my immersion would remain intact and I wouldn't have the urge to scream "don't accuse me of something I didn't do!"

 

I understand why you would want other things, but this is no less valid than a new Ranked WZ. You should get one BTW.

Edited December 3, 2021 by JakRoanin

[casirabit]

While I have no problem if they added it and most would not care except for the title of your forums especially the last part:

"I can guarantee pretty much Everyone wants it!"

 

That is a statement that should not have been added into your forum title as that is why you are getting so much "gripe" because of the way it can come across.

[TrixxieTriss]

I know nothing about tech. I'm the type of person who needs all tech instructions to be like the following:

 

Step 1. Click this icon

Step 2. Click this button

Step 3. Wait and pray it works.

 

I'm not saying this to brag, nor am I a stupid person, but technobbable outside of SCI-FI doesn't mean a thing to me. So, how SWTOR works, what the system can take, etc... I really don't know and don't care to know. The assertion that such a system would take too many 'resources' is in my mind flawed because unless the people who work in the guts of this system make a gold post saying, Sorry guys impossible, I just assume that even the most tech-savvy poster doesn't know what is possible or impossible, and how much 'resources' come into play making a change.

 

To me, a system that knows all the choices I personally made for each distinct character, would never be a waste. For my immersion would remain intact and I wouldn't have the urge to scream "don't accuse me of something I didn't do!"

 

I understand why you would want other things, but this is no less valid than a new Ranked WZ. You should get one BTW.

 

You completely missed the whole point of the post you quoted.

 

BioWare don’t currently track enough of the choices in the game themselves. They have admitted as much. So it is impossible (you know what that word is right?) to actually retroactively introduce a system for our current characters if they don’t have that information.

 

There is nothing wrong in asking for it if you only want it for new characters and players. Of course it’s reasonable to assume that current players with existing characters might not understand why BioWare would do that if it doesn’t benefit the whole player base.

Edited December 3, 2021 by TrixxieTriss

[ImmortalLowlife]

First off... "Pretty much everybody" just means a lot of people. Some of y'all take stuff way to personal.

 

On topic.. personally I'd like some kind of log on major story points. It's a QoL improvement I'd 100% use.

[ZionHalcyon]

I simply forgot how negative these forums are tbh. The answer to every suggestion is shut up they don't have time. As if it's our job to consider all the behind the scenes nonsense. Literally everyone here saying they don't want it is basing that answer on the same old tired resource concerns. I'm asking if THEY would like the feature to be in the game. Not if they wanna sit and code it themselves... Why do they care how much work it takes. Just say if it would be a nice feature to have or not, if there's enough support, maybe it's implemented in the future at some point as part of a general QoL update, I'm not sitting here asking for them to dedicate the whole fiscal budget to it and get it done by tomorrow... Damn. But people just cannot wait to pour cold water on everything.

 

You're not wrong. But don't ever let negativity stop you from pursuing an idea.

 

Back in the day with SWG, I had a concept to revitalize the Munitions profession long after it had been totally gutted. Managed to get elected player rep for the profession (which gave me some direct dev access), and so put forth my idea. Whole munitions forum hated it - never mind the forum was mostly dead. Those left absolutely torched the idea, giving the same excuse there people are doing in the here and now - limited resources, combined with "never gonna happen anyway, so why try?"

 

Ended up taking the idea to the main forum where the general player populace LOVED the idea. Still pushed for the concept after my time was up as player rep. About a year after I first brought the idea up, it got made into a reality. And that munitions forum? Sure, those naysayers disappeared. Never heard from them again. Guessing they quit. Seems like a loss, right?

 

NOPE. Because although we lost them, we had such a MASSIVE influx of NEW players, people who never were interested in playing Munitions before, joining the forum, and suddenly a forum there that was next to dead for at least a solid 3 years roared back to life. It was one of the most satisfying moments of my playing career.

 

So don't let people acting like turds get you down. Its a good and useful idea, and no one here on this side of things actually KNOWS how much time or energy it would take to implement, nor do they even know if its the same team that would work on your idea that would work on the content they're supposedly trying to protect - maybe its different teams or something that can be done in tandem with something else because they are already working on that part of the code for another reason anyway.

 

No one here works on the game, so they don't know. And the "no resources" club has been proven wrong quite a few times before over this game's history....

[ZionHalcyon]

...The assertion that such a system would take too many 'resources' is in my mind flawed because unless the people who work in the guts of this system make a gold post saying, Sorry guys impossible, I just assume that even the most tech-savvy poster doesn't know what is possible or impossible, and how much 'resources' come into play making a change.

 

Ding! Ding! Ding!

 

We have a WINNAH!!!!

 

You are 100000000% correct that the naysayers have NO IDEA what is or is not possible. The only time I have really seen a gold post on something like that would be on replacing the gaming engine itself - that's always been a hard no, but looking at ESO which uses a flavor of the same engine, shows that better visuals are possible even with the current engine.

 

There have been times in this game's history where things people said would never happen, happened, and almost all of them came after Keith Kannig took over production. So, I have no idea why anyone would fight a good idea? It's like some people are just addicted to misery, both suffering from it and in inflicting it...

[BRKMSN]

I can remember what choices I make on every character. I have no use for a digital diary.

[TrixxieTriss]

Ding! Ding! Ding!

 

We have a WINNAH!!!!

 

You are 100000000% correct that the naysayers have NO IDEA what is or is not possible. The only time I have really seen a gold post on something like that would be on replacing the gaming engine itself - that's always been a hard no, but looking at ESO which uses a flavor of the same engine, shows that better visuals are possible even with the current engine.

 

There have been times in this game's history where things people said would never happen, happened, and almost all of them came after Keith Kannig took over production. So, I have no idea why anyone would fight a good idea? It's like some people are just addicted to misery, both suffering from it and in inflicting it...

 

Then explain simply for us dumb foke how BioWare can make a system retroactively that is accurate with the choices we made when BioWare didn’t record at least half the choices themselves.

Where is this information supposed to come from. Does BioWare have a secret time machine they can go back and collect data they never recorded?

Charles has openly admitted they don’t record a lot of the player choices. Why do you think there are always bugs showing up in the story. We have characters there that we killed and we have the character logs that say we did X when in fact we did Y.

If BioWare hasn’t recorded the info enough for even their own development purposes, how do you expect them to make a system retroactively for current characters? It’s logically impossible.

You can of course wish they had recorded that info and ask they do so for new characters or new content. But it’s unrealistic to say they can do it for old characters just because you wish they could.

[Ulrah]

According to Charles they don't actually track every decision every character has made. KotFE/KOTET doesn't either but there are some things that get "remembered/logged" for the journal entries, etc..

If true, this is an unfortunate lack of foresight (it happens).

 

I see this as a relatively easy feature to implement, but its viability ultimately depends on which choices have even been tracked. Not much point in making it if it can only recall a small subset of your choices.

[ZionHalcyon]

Then explain simply for us dumb foke how BioWare can make a system retroactively that is accurate with the choices we made when BioWare didn’t record at least half the choices themselves.

Where is this information supposed to come from. Does BioWare have a secret time machine they can go back and collect data they never recorded?

Charles has openly admitted they don’t record a lot of the player choices. Why do you think there are always bugs showing up in the story. We have characters there that we killed and we have the character logs that say we did X when in fact we did Y.

If BioWare hasn’t recorded the info enough for even their own development purposes, how do you expect them to make a system retroactively for current characters? It’s logically impossible.

You can of course wish they had recorded that info and ask they do so for new characters or new content. But it’s unrealistic to say they can do it for old characters just because you wish they could.

 

I'm not a programmer, but I've done programming, and I can tell you NOTHING is completely impossible - it's just if you can justify the time and energy for it.

 

I'd imagine for a system like the op is requesting, you can first program something to collect from the different choices that ARE recorded (after all, there IS a way to map some decisions since we have PROOF of that in KotFE and KotET and beyond), and then record things going forward. Or maybe such a system can't be grandfathered into an existing character - well, if it means implementing the system, implement it for new characters only - eventually it will naturally take over as people come and go, re-roll etc.

 

There's ALWAYS a way. It just takes an open mind. Is that a good enough explaination for "dumb" folk (your words, NOT mine)?

Edited December 3, 2021 by ZionHalcyon

[Ulrah]

I'm not a programmer, but I've done programming, and I can tell you NOTHING is completely impossible - it's just if you can justify the time and energy for it.

Actually some things can be proven to be impossible (see "halting problem")

 

But I see no reason to believe that is the case here. If the data exists, displaying it is essentially the same task as most of what is seen in the Legacy window (and its various tabs).

[ZionHalcyon]

Actually some things can be proven to be impossible (see "halting problem")

 

But I see no reason to believe that is the case here. If the data exists, displaying it is essentially the same task as most of what is seen in the Legacy window (and its various tabs).

 

I mean, fair, but often those types of halting problems tend to be on a much larger scale trying much grander things than just a video game.

 

Case in point, there might be something "impossible" for one game, but IS possible for another video game. Which means, that if we are being purely technical, that "impossible" thing, that "halting problem" for one game can be overcome by completely re-writing the code for it to give it a code base similar to the game where it works - but because of the time and cost investment for such a thing, that's rarely ever done - doesn't stop it from being technically possible.

 

All that said, I agree that this request doesn't even come close to that.

[JakRoanin]

So it is impossible (you know what that word is right?)

 

First, I apologize for upsetting you. I don't believe I did miss your point, but I stand by my belief that unless the people who physically run SWTOR's system have said they can't do something through Ms. Ko or Mr. Musco, then I will not assume anything is impossible. Is Mr. Boyd in charge or the system? No, he is the Creative Director, they tell him "We love this idea, we can't make it physically work in a program."

 

And yes, I do know what the word impossible means. I may not be able to tell a GPU from a CPU, but basic English isn't too hard.

[TrixxieTriss]

I'm not a programmer, but I've done programming, and I can tell you NOTHING is completely impossible - it's just if you can justify the time and energy for it.

 

I'd imagine for a system like the op is requesting, you can first program something to collect from the different choices that ARE recorded (after all, there IS a way to map some decisions since we have PROOF of that in KotFE and KotET and beyond), and then record things going forward. Or maybe such a system can't be grandfathered into an existing character - well, if it means implementing the system, implement it for new characters only - eventually it will naturally take over as people come and go, re-roll etc.

 

There's ALWAYS a way. It just takes an open mind. Is that a good enough explaination for "dumb" folk (your words, NOT mine)?

 

Nothing is impossible? Really? You may have programmed before, but do you understand databases or data storage? You can’t just pull old data out of thin air if it’s never been recorded.

If you think you know a way to magically make that happen with wishes, then please enlighten us poor sods whose minds aren’t open enough to perform magic.

[ZionHalcyon]

Nothing is impossible? Really? You may have programmed before, but do you understand databases or data storage? You can’t just pull old data out of thin air if it’s never been recorded.

If you think you know a way to magically make that happen with wishes, then please enlighten us poor sods whose minds aren’t open enough to perform magic.

 

ROFL.

 

You think what the op is requesting is going to take up a ton of database space?

 

See, when I decided programming wasn't my bag, I went into the hardware side, and then virtualization - I AM A SYSTEM ENGINEER. I PROVISION SERVERS FOR PEOPLE TO PUT THEIR DATABASES ON.

 

Seriously - that's checkmate on your argument. The only issue the op has with his request is whether the developers feel this QoL improvement is worth the time investment. That's it. You are severely overstating everything else....

[TrixxieTriss]

First, I apologize for upsetting you. I don't believe I did miss your point, but I stand by my belief that unless the people who physically run SWTOR's system have said they can't do something through Ms. Ko or Mr. Musco, then I will not assume anything is impossible. Is Mr. Boyd in charge or the system? No, he is the Creative Director, they tell him "We love this idea, we can't make it physically work in a program."

 

And yes, I do know what the word impossible means. I may not be able to tell a GPU from a CPU, but basic English isn't too hard.

 

Im anything but upset.

 

You want proof. Ok, Charles said they don’t record all the player choices. Therefore, logically they don’t have said data. Therefore if you understand logic, you would know you can extrapolate that it’s impossible to obtain said data to make this system retroactively for the existing characters.

 

Of course, if you are talking about new characters or for new content choices, then yes BioWare could do it for those. BioWare could also take the data they have and make a log of what they have. But it would have holes in it and it might not even make sense sometimes.

Would players be happy with that? I dont know.

 

Would I be happy they spent valuable resources to make a log with info that’s not complete, has holes in it and may not make sense? No because I’d rather have new playable content instead.

Would I use it if they made it as I describe? Probably not.

 

If they made it for new characters and had every choice from scratch, I’m sure new players and people creating new characters would like it. But it comes down to a cost benefit for BioWare. Ie l, will it make BioWare more money than using the same resources to make more content.

Edited December 3, 2021 by TrixxieTriss

[ZionHalcyon]

Im anything but upset.

 

You want proof. Ok, Charles said they don’t record all the player choices. Therefore, logically they don’t have said data. Therefore if you understand logic, you would know can extrapolate that it’s impossible to obtain said data to make this system retroactively for the existing characters.

 

Of course, if you are talking about new characters or for new content choices, then yes BioWare could do it for those. BioWare could also take the data they have and make a log of what they have. But it would have holes in it and it might not even make sense sometimes.

Would players be happy with that? I dont know.

 

Would I be happy they spent valuable resources to make a log with info that’s not complete, has holes in it and may not make sense? No because I’d rather have new playable content instead.

Would I use it if they made it as I describe? Probably not.

 

If they made it for new characters and had every choice from scratch, I’m sure new players and people creating new characters would like it. But it comes down to a cost benefit for BioWare. Ie l, will it make BioWare more money than using the same resources to make more content.

 

JUST a point - Charles DID say they don't record ALL player choices. ALL, means ALL. They DO record SOME player choices though. not ALL, but SOME.

 

See how that works? Its why I said I would understand if they had to grandfather some things into it. But they DO record SOME choices - how else do they determine what direction your story goes in KotFE and KotET?

 

Sorry, but they record some choices. Just not all...

[TrixxieTriss]

ROFL.

 

You think what the op is requesting is going to take up a ton of database space?

 

See, when I decided programming wasn't my bag, I went into the hardware side, and then virtualization - I AM A SYSTEM ENGINEER. I PROVISION SERVERS FOR PEOPLE TO PUT THEIR DATABASES ON.

 

Seriously - that's checkmate on your argument. The only issue the op has with his request is whether the developers feel this QoL improvement is worth the time investment. That's it. You are severely overstating everything else....

 

Am I not writing in English. Is what I’m saying not clear enough that you are now misrepresenting what I said because you didn’t understand or because you didn’t read it properly? I never said it was going to take up a tonne of database space. Please show me where I said that!

And just because you’re a systems engineer (which by the way, I am trained as one too), doesn’t mean you understand databases or how to build them or compile them. I’ve actually administered databases and built them from scratch. But even if I hadn’t, logically you can not make old information appear in a database unless you have recorded that data somewhere. Which BioWare have admitted they haven’t.

Your checkmate analogy isn’t even a check because you’re trying to play a completely different game of dungeons and dragons where data can magically appear, while I’m playing chess using logic and reason.

Edited December 3, 2021 by TrixxieTriss

[TrixxieTriss]

JUST a point - Charles DID say they don't record ALL player choices. ALL, means ALL. They DO record SOME player choices though. not ALL, but SOME.

 

See how that works? Its why I said I would understand if they had to grandfather some things into it. But they DO record SOME choices - how else do they determine what direction your story goes in KotFE and KotET?

 

Sorry, but they record some choices. Just not all...

 

Again, I never said they didn’t record some. But the question is how much. And neither you or I know that.

[ZionHalcyon]

Again, I never said they didn’t record some. But the question is how much. And neither you or I know that.

 

Right - and you seem to think of that as a point for your argument instead of mine.....

[TrixxieTriss]

Right - and you seem to think of that as a point for your argument instead of mine.....

 

Actually I don’t. You keep trying to say they can magically make data appear outta thin air. I’m trying to tell you they can’t.

[ZionHalcyon]

Am I not writing in English. Is what I’m saying not clear enough that you are now misrepresenting what I said because you didn’t understand or because you didn’t read it properly? I never said it was going to take up a tonne of database space. Please show me where I said that!

And just because you’re a systems engineer (which by the way, I am trained as one too), doesn’t mean you understand databases or how to build them or compile them. I’ve actually administered databases and built them from scratch. But even if I hadn’t, logically you can not make old information appear in a database unless you have recorded that data somewhere. Which BioWare have admitted they haven’t.

Your checkmate analogy isn’t even a check because you’re trying to play a completely different game of dungeons and dragons where data can magically appear, while I’m playing chess using logic and reason.

 

 

You're now trying to make a different argument.

 

Let's take the way-back machine to what I said:

 

https://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=9985341&postcount=38

 

I'd imagine for a system like the op is requesting, you can first program something to collect from the different choices that ARE recorded (after all, there IS a way to map some decisions since we have PROOF of that in KotFE and KotET and beyond), and then record things going forward. Or maybe such a system can't be grandfathered into an existing character - well, if it means implementing the system, implement it for new characters only - eventually it will naturally take over as people come and go, re-roll etc.

 

 

Hmmm - Now, what part of that paragraph did you not read, given that I ALREADY addressed your comment about old information - before you even said it?