ebinhovdloca Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 (edited) The gear paths are separate. Getting up to irating 334 in the Conquest path doesn't turn it into the Ops gear, we know this already. This was confirmed by the devs on Discord, the Conquest gear being worse is the intent. If you're okay with this and think that's how it should be, that's fine, that's your opinion, but stop trying to gaslight solo players into thinking it's going to be better than it is. By the developers' own words, you're wrong. the developer has yet to talk about 334 conquest gear just 326 Edited November 10, 2021 by ebinhovdloca Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
divinecynic Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 Solo content may be what draws players to the game, but group content is what keeps players around. I've been in this game since the beginning and have been in multitude of guild, including being an officer of a maxxed out guild for about 8 years. What I noticed is that the 'solo' players typically stick around for about ~3-4 weeks before they stop logging into the game. Sure, sometimes they come back when a new patch drops, but then they disappear again in about 1-2 weeks. The players that are running group content, more specifically OPs, tend to be around for 6+ months. The more they are into OPs, the longer they stick around. While the people that do OPs and PvP 'may' be the minority in the game, it's the core group of people that have been around since the beginning. No one I know has been in this game for 3-4 years and doesn't do OPs at all. Also, you would be surprised at how many people actually run SM OPs. Most of the guilds on my server that has an active community has multiple open raid events scheduled every week. Many of these guilds even have training OPs that encourage and teach new players on mechanics, and guide them through running OPs. Just my observation over the last 10 years. My observation over the last 10 years is the days of group content keeping people around was dying by the time the Dread Ops dropped and ended fully after SoR. It wasn't 6.0 gearing that killed progression raiding it was Kotfe. Even then, for those that did stick around and do group content most stop at fps. Nearly everyone stops at story Ops. I know several people that have been playing this game for 8-10 years and have never touched an op. Some are just solo players. Some only run pvp. Some rp. I am not saying plenty of people don't do SM Ops. I am saying a large part of the player base doesn't. I also know several people like me who used to run Ops and stopped for a variety of reason. The group content that has really seen the most growth is Conquest. It's an amazing model and it really enhances the Guild experience way more that Ops ever has. It also is getting all the nerfs. Something else I have noticed, 6.0's gearing system brought players back. Ops don't do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebinhovdloca Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 My observation over the last 10 years is the days of group content keeping people around was dying by the time the Dread Ops dropped and ended fully after SoR. It wasn't 6.0 gearing that killed progression raiding it was Kotfe. Even then, for those that did stick around and do group content most stop at fps. Nearly everyone stops at story Ops. I know several people that have been playing this game for 8-10 years and have never touched an op. Some are just solo players. Some only run pvp. Some rp. I am not saying plenty of people don't do SM Ops. I am saying a large part of the player base doesn't. I also know several people like me who used to run Ops and stopped for a variety of reason. The group content that has really seen the most growth is Conquest. It's an amazing model and it really enhances the Guild experience way more that Ops ever has. It also is getting all the nerfs. Something else I have noticed, 6.0's gearing system brought players back. Ops don't do that. 6.0 gearing system also drove players away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
divinecynic Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 how so ? not only is the 2 IR below a theory it would still be better than most MMORPG's hardcore raiding doesnt exist on swtor 6.0 gearing system was one of the worst things to happen in this game, u just needed to run RR/HS for a couple hours to get BiS gear why do u think bioware is reverting that decision? if ppl can reach the gear cap by running the same thing over and over again, not only is that boring but that means gear progression is non existant meritocracy is a good thing altho i very much doubt they will lock the last 2 IR to MM R4 exclusively Well simple question is player choice a good thing? If the answer is yes than limiting it is bad. Simple idea. So which is more important a sense of progression for Operations or player freedom in the whole game? As you said it is only an increase of 2 IR, which you do not even need for the raid. So why bother with it at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The-Kaitou-Kid Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 the developer has yet to talk about 334 conquest gear just 326 So you have no confirmation then and are guessing. Okay. The only confirmation we have is that the Conquest gear is intended to be worse, in both max irating and stat distribution, and that the ceiling and floor for all gear tracks will rise over time. Even with access to mods, that doesn't mean Conquest gear will be anywhere near the same level as the other tracks. So stop saying it will be. You have no clue if that's actually the case or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exly Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 how so? solo players will still have access to 334 gear (worst case scenario) on most other MMORPG's you wont have access to top tier gear by playing solo content Not if they quit the game because they don't like the gearing system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebinhovdloca Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 Well simple question is player choice a good thing? If the answer is yes than limiting it is bad. Simple idea. So which is more important a sense of progression for Operations or player freedom in the whole game? As you said it is only an increase of 2 IR, which you do not even need for the raid. So why bother with it at all? thats the thing i dont think they will even bother, this is all just specculation based on these "Is the only way we can get moddable gear is if we can clear VM 80 OP? Is there no more min/maxing for players who can't clear the hardest content in game? No. Over time, as upgrade ceilings raise with new game updates, moddable gear will be accessible to all players. At 7.0’s launch there will be no moddable gear awarded above level 306" modded gear will be 334 and 336 or just 336 and every path will have those https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/889962788095668234/908132263450013757/unknown.png Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebinhovdloca Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 Not if they quit the game because they don't like the gearing system. ppl will quit the game with all types of gearing system, no gearing system will make all players happy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebinhovdloca Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 (edited) So you have no confirmation then and are guessing. Okay. The only confirmation we have is that the Conquest gear is intended to be worse, in both max irating and stat distribution, and that the ceiling and floor for all gear tracks will rise over time. Even with access to mods, that doesn't mean Conquest gear will be anywhere near the same level as the other tracks. So stop saying it will be. You have no clue if that's actually the case or not. https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/889962788095668234/908132263450013757/unknown.png if the difference is stat allocation alone why is it a big deal? tertiary stats outside of competitive environments mean little to nothing, not having 110% accuracy will just mean you will miss a 1 shot every now and again, 1,3s gcd will still be easily obtainable with zeal, and with less crit u will just not 1 shot as hard Edited November 10, 2021 by ebinhovdloca Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
divinecynic Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 6.0 gearing system also drove players away. Some, however, if you look at the pop since the Steam drop. It's been pretty steady. You'll see a bigger drop over this. Whether you agree with it or not, it's hard to miss that a chunk of players are going to feel something has been taken from them. They are going to leave. Hopefully we can get them back for the next expansion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eli_Porter Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 how so ? not only is the 2 IR below a theory it would still be better than most MMORPG's hardcore raiding doesnt exist on swtor 6.0 gearing system was one of the worst things to happen in this game, u just needed to run RR/HS for a couple hours to get BiS gear why do u think bioware is reverting that decision? if ppl can reach the gear cap by running the same thing over and over again, not only is that boring but that means gear progression is non existant meritocracy is a good thing altho i very much doubt they will lock the last 2 IR to MM R4 exclusively Because the vast majority of players won't suddenly turn into prog raiders, they'll just feel left out and disheartened. And speaking of doing the same thing over and over, that's also what you're telling those raiders. No more progging for titles/achievements/cosmetics, you now have to farm the easiest NiM op until everyone on your team is 330. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebinhovdloca Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 Some, however, if you look at the pop since the Steam drop. It's been pretty steady. You'll see a bigger drop over this. Whether you agree with it or not, it's hard to miss that a chunk of players are going to feel something has been taken from them. They are going to leave. Hopefully we can get them back for the next expansion. cant use steam as a reliable way to see the playerbase or the playerbase drop, if you use steam as an example only 6k are playing rn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakRoanin Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 how so? currently even with 270 gear u can 1 shot standard mobs and almost 1 shot silver mobs there is no challenge whatsoever in 99% of solo content That isn't my experience in the game content like The Spirit of Vengeance FP is extremely tiring for me even with 300+ gear. If you care about this game you need to realize not every player can do what you can do. This physical energy I put into this game is equal to if not greater than NiM Raiders and I pay the same 15$. PS I do like some group content mainly World Bosses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebinhovdloca Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 Because the vast majority of players won't suddenly turn into prog raiders, they'll just feel left out and disheartened. And speaking of doing the same thing over and over, that's also what you're telling those raiders. No more progging for titles/achievements/cosmetics, you now have to farm the easiest NiM op until everyone on your team is 330. but you dont since its not confirmed anywhere that legacy nims are balanced to 330 gear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The-Kaitou-Kid Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/889962788095668234/908132263450013757/unknown.png Yep. That's what I was talking about alright. You have no confirmation of how things will work beyond that. You're trying to assume it'll somehow change after 326 and suddenly Conquest gear will have better stat distributions, and telling everybody that they can't be concerned because of your assumption. Your assumption is not a guarantee, nor do I think it's even particularly likely. When all gear can get to the 334 step with access to mods, I imagine other gear tracks will have access to even better gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebinhovdloca Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 That isn't my experience in the game content like The Spirit of Vengeance FP is extremely tiring for me even with 300+ gear. If you care about this game you need to realize not every player can do what you can do. This physical energy I put into this game is equal to if not greater than NiM Raiders and I pay the same 15$. PS I do like some group content mainly World Bosses. i never mentioned skill level, with how overpowered your character and your comp is you can 1 shot all standard mobs in solo vengeance fp only taking a couple of hits to take down silver and gold, only thing that will take a while is the boss but you will never be in danger of dying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebinhovdloca Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 Yep. That's what I was talking about alright. You have no confirmation of how things will work beyond that. You're trying to assume it'll somehow change after 326 and suddenly Conquest gear will have better stat distributions, and telling everybody that they can't be concerned because of your assumption. Your assumption is not a guarantee, nor do I think it's even particularly likely. When all gear can get to the 334 step with access to mods, I imagine other gear tracks will have access to even better gear. 336 will be the max so worst case scenario every path will be 2 IR behind MM R4 https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/889962788095668234/908113588219174963/unknown.png Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phaedruss Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 Yep. That's what I was talking about alright. You have no confirmation of how things will work beyond that. You're trying to assume it'll somehow change after 326 and suddenly Conquest gear will have better stat distributions, and telling everybody that they can't be concerned because of your assumption. Your assumption is not a guarantee, nor do I think it's even particularly likely. When all gear can get to the 334 step with access to mods, I imagine other gear tracks will have access to even better gear. This. Stop posting discord screenshots. If it's official, it should be here on this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakRoanin Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 i never mentioned skill level, with how overpowered your character and your comp is you can 1 shot all standard mobs in solo vengeance fp only taking a couple of hits to take down silver and gold, only thing that will take a while is the boss but you will never be in danger of dying Wow, that is one of the cruelest things said to me on this forum. I feel sorry for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebinhovdloca Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 This. Stop posting discord screenshots. If it's official, it should be here on this thread. and you know that because u can read the devs mind? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phaedruss Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 Wow, that is one of the cruelest things said to me on this forum. I feel sorry for you. Like I said... picking on the disabled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebinhovdloca Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 Wow, that is one of the cruelest things said to me on this forum. I feel sorry for you. how so? everything said is regarding numbers on your gear. never mentioned any1's skill level Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliushorst Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 that entire argument can be flipped on its head, max gear being available only for MM ops doesnt hurt any solo player gameplay wise, sure u might want BiS gear, then play the content that its awarded in if u dont wanna play group content just dont play an MMORPG OK, fair. Have you tiers. And I want a solo option to finish Oricon story. Fair? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebinhovdloca Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 OK, fair. Have you tiers. And I want a solo option to finish Oricon story. Fair? how is it fair to have a solo mode for operations? having solo mode fps is bad enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The-Kaitou-Kid Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 336 will be the max so worst case scenario every path will be 2 IR behind MM R4 https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/889962788095668234/908113588219174963/unknown.png And that would still be worse in stats due to the different stat distributions between the gear tracks in the screenshot you literally just posted in the post I was quoting, meaning irating is not the only factor and you know that. As for your edit asking why it would matter for solo players to have better distributed stats, because it affects how fast you kill things, like all gear upgrades do. If it didn't matter at all, why would we be getting any upgrades? Getting to specific tertiary stat targets matters, having more power matters, etc. It may not matter as much outside of Ops, but it still matters. But I'm glad you can admit that there is a difference between the gear tracks now, so you can stop pretending Conquest gear will be "BIS" at 334. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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