swtor story seems tilted

[thekingapple]

the swtor story seems to take sides in the stories of kotfe and beyond to seem like to take side with the republic. cause the whole story of kotfe is to become more then light and dark. and after kotfe and kotet they went back to republic good anf empire evil completey leaveing the becomeing more then light and dark story in favor of the treid tropes you see ever thing that has good and evil. cause in onslught you have no real reason to even have done anything in the past dlc that means a damn thing if you are on the imp side. not to mention all leaders in the alliance are pub side story charcters. theorn is a complainer about empire actions even after you tell him he can leave and return to the republic, ago quits the alliance if you side with empire. and the so called sith lords give up and tell you their plans like some old fashion moron and not a sith lord the moment you bet them. not to mention you conqure sith lords with i guess the power of freindship or something like that. the pub side story during it lana does not complain once about your actions and she is the only imp side charcter in a leadership postion in the alliance. Not to mention the republic side is seems to be the only side that you could play where you can do no evil.

[SithKoriandr]

the swtor story seems to take sides in the stories of kotfe and beyond to seem like to take side with the republic. cause the whole story of kotfe is to become more then light and dark. and after kotfe and kotet they went back to republic good anf empire evil completey leaveing the becomeing more then light and dark story in favor of the treid tropes you see ever thing that has good and evil. cause in onslught you have no real reason to even have done anything in the past dlc that means a damn thing if you are on the imp side. not to mention all leaders in the alliance are pub side story charcters. theorn is a complainer about empire actions even after you tell him he can leave and return to the republic, ago quits the alliance if you side with empire. and the so called sith lords give up and tell you their plans like some old fashion moron and not a sith lord the moment you bet them. not to mention you conqure sith lords with i guess the power of freindship or something like that. the pub side story during it lana does not complain once about your actions and she is the only imp side charcter in a leadership postion in the alliance. Not to mention the republic side is seems to be the only side that you could play where you can do no evil.

 

I'd argue the Empire gives you plenty of reasons not to trust them. The first thing they do, if you agree to alliance with them, is invade your territory and then claim "Well, we had to, because the Republic did it" That's betrayal of your alliance right there. They'll keep betraying you every step for their betterment.

[Tsillah]

KotFE/ET is written for the Jedi Knight class. Plain and simple. It's not a good fit for tech classes nor is it a good fit for Empire force users either. KotFE/ET is basically a soap opera about the Valkorion family which are uber force users. They are the equivalent of Palpatine that needs to be beaten because he's evil, but in this case he has a dysfunctional family and it's about how they develop during the story and not about your development. So that's what a Jedi Knight does.

 

If, for example, you're a Sith Inquisitor that ends up in a position on the Dark Council, the title of Commander never made sense to begin with. My main in other words and I saw it as a big demotion to be called Commander. I didn't want the job. Never did but I had to spend two expansions doing it. So I'm glad I can skip KotFE/ET entirely.

[SithKoriandr]

KotFE/ET is written for the Jedi Knight class. Plain and simple. It's not a good fit for tech classes nor is it a good fit for Empire force users either. KotFE/ET is basically a soap opera about the Valkorion family which are uber force users. They are the equivalent of Palpatine that needs to be beaten because he's evil, but in this case he has a dysfunctional family and it's about how they develop during the story and not about your development. So that's what a Jedi Knight does.

 

If, for example, you're a Sith Inquisitor that ends up in a position on the Dark Council, the title of Commander never made sense to begin with. My main in other words and I saw it as a big demotion to be called Commander. I didn't want the job. Never did but I had to spend two expansions doing it. So I'm glad I can skip KotFE/ET entirely.

 

I can't say I like the title Barsenthor I do feel the story works for any force user, but once the alliance comes and stays it may not do so as much.

 

However, I do have to agree, I feel the Inquisitor should've taken Acina's place, instead it feels like being kicked to the curb and they betray you to boot.

[Hadsil]

KotFE/ET is written for the Jedi Knight class. Plain and simple. It's not a good fit for tech classes nor is it a good fit for Empire force users either. KotFE/ET is basically a soap opera about the Valkorion family which are uber force users. They are the equivalent of Palpatine that needs to be beaten because he's evil, but in this case he has a dysfunctional family and it's about how they develop during the story and not about your development. So that's what a Jedi Knight does.

 

If, for example, you're a Sith Inquisitor that ends up in a position on the Dark Council, the title of Commander never made sense to begin with. My main in other words and I saw it as a big demotion to be called Commander. I didn't want the job. Never did but I had to spend two expansions doing it. So I'm glad I can skip KotFE/ET entirely.

 

The title may be off, but you're in command of a Galactic Alliance that rivals and surpasses the Empire and Republic. You are the top dog, answerable to no one. I see it as a promotion.

[casirabit]

I'd argue the Empire gives you plenty of reasons not to trust them. The first thing they do, if you agree to alliance with them, is invade your territory and then claim "Well, we had to, because the Republic did it" That's betrayal of your alliance right there. They'll keep betraying you every step for their betterment.

 

/agreed.

[Tsillah]

The title may be off, but you're in command of a Galactic Alliance that rivals and surpasses the Empire and Republic. You are the top dog, answerable to no one. I see it as a promotion.

I would've killed all those light side jedi. This whole deal about "going beyond the dark and light side" was very vague and unconvincing.

 

The thing is that Darth Nox (as your title becomes), is the council member that is responsible for knowledge, not to be a war leader as it was. It just wasn't a good fit, let's say, for my inquisitors.

[Ardrossan]

I would've killed all those light side jedi. This whole deal about "going beyond the dark and light side" was very vague and unconvincing.

 

IDC what anyone says, that chapter was about Valky puppeting Marr and Satele as hallucinations parroting his words through people he thought the PC would listen to. Beyond Dark and Light would be fine if it were Kreia saying it, but not for Satele and Marr. For Valky though, there's no complicated K2 relativism, it's just a reiteration of his point that power is the only thing that matters. He wanted the PC to think more like him because...idk. Maybe it made the PC easier to control? Like you said, it was very vaguely written.

Edited September 5, 2021 by Ardrossan

[ceryxp]

KotFE/ET is written for the Jedi Knight class. Plain and simple.

 

Disagree. The Knight is a glorified lightsaber jockey. Only the Consular ticks all of the boxes for the Alliance Commander.

• History with Vitiate
  
• Command experience
  
• Diplomatic experience
  
• Enough power to actually stand against Vitiate / Valkorion without the need of a Force prophecy
  

 

The Knight only defeats Vitiate after the Warrior releases the Voice, so the Voice can move on to the next host, and it takes time for a new Voice to fully integrate, and only after the Consular cuts off an extension of Vitiate and locks it away (the Children were all imbued with a portion of Vitiate's power with the First Son receiving the largest dose). You can even see in that final fight that Vitiate is weaker.

 

The Consular is the only Alliance Commander that makes sense.

[Tsillah]

IDC what anyone says, that chapter was about Valky puppeting Marr and Satele as hallucinations parroting his words through people he thought the PC would listen to. Beyond Dark and Light would be fine if it were Kreia saying it, but not for Satele and Marr. For Valky though, there's no complicated K2 relativism, it's just a reiteration of his point that power is the only thing that matters. He wanted the PC to think more like him because...idk. Maybe it made the PC easier to control? Like you said, it was very vaguely written.

For me the problem was that going beyond dark and light is actually never explained. You're just supposed to figure it out by yourself and then suddenly you seem to get it and make a special weapon based on that. But the game actually never explains it. So I was left with questions that never got answered.

 

As for your scenario...you could be on to something here. It never felt like I was more than an audience for Valkorion in that whole story arc.

[Tsillah]

Disagree. The Knight is a glorified lightsaber jockey. Only the Consular ticks all of the boxes for the Alliance Commander.

• History with Vitiate
  
• Command experience
  
• Diplomatic experience
  
• Enough power to actually stand against Vitiate / Valkorion without the need of a Force prophecy
  

 

The Knight only defeats Vitiate after the Warrior releases the Voice, so the Voice can move on to the next host, and it takes time for a new Voice to fully integrate, and only after the Consular cuts off an extension of Vitiate and locks it away (the Children were all imbued with a portion of Vitiate's power with the First Son receiving the largest dose). You can even see in that final fight that Vitiate is weaker.

 

The Consular is the only Alliance Commander that makes sense.

 

Your arguments make no sense except the command experience. The JK has much more direct experience with Vitiate. The JK also serves under the emperor as a sort of Darth Vader doing dark deeds for an unknown time period but it's likely to be months or longer.

 

I'm not sure that the counselor would want to work with sith against a worse sith. Clearly the counselor doesn't have enough power there to take on vitiate, so your argument that the counselor is more powerful than the JK is just your opinion.

 

The JK had enough reason to have a personal beef with Vitiate and would be willing to work more easily with sith because of it.

 

But more importantly, the way the story is written is clearly for the JK imo.

 

But hey, you have your opinion, I have mine. This can be an endless discussion but it would be opinion against opinion. So if you don't mind I'll cut it off right here and agree to disagree with you. Just wanted to share some insights as to why as you did.

[LazySithWarrior]

I'd argue the Empire gives you plenty of reasons not to trust them. The first thing they do, if you agree to alliance with them, is invade your territory and then claim "Well, we had to, because the Republic did it" That's betrayal of your alliance right there. They'll keep betraying you every step for their betterment.

 

I'm really curious to see how the Empress/Emperor actually feels about the PC/Alliance. Considering what they did to Malgus, it does not bode well for the commander. Acina seems very bitter if you don't rejoin and remain independent, giving a rather cold farewell at the end of Onslaught.

 

Despite their claims of reform, I fully expect the Empire to betray the PC once they defeat the Republic.

 

the swtor story seems to take sides in the stories of kotfe and beyond to seem like to take side with the republic. cause the whole story of kotfe is to become more then light and dark. and after kotfe and kotet they went back to republic good anf empire evil completey leaveing the becomeing more then light and dark story in favor of the treid tropes you see ever thing that has good and evil. cause in onslught you have no real reason to even have done anything in the past dlc that means a damn thing if you are on the imp side. not to mention all leaders in the alliance are pub side story charcters. theorn is a complainer about empire actions even after you tell him he can leave and return to the republic, ago quits the alliance if you side with empire. and the so called sith lords give up and tell you their plans like some old fashion moron and not a sith lord the moment you bet them. not to mention you conqure sith lords with i guess the power of freindship or something like that. the pub side story during it lana does not complain once about your actions and she is the only imp side charcter in a leadership postion in the alliance. Not to mention the republic side is seems to be the only side that you could play where you can do no evil.

 

Yeah...

It makes zero sense for Theron to stick around if you sided with Empire. That is why exiled him on my Imp/saboteur toons, I don't want him to betray his homeland because of friendship/love. Better to hurt him now and let him find his own path than having to kill him later when he inevitable betrays you (for reals this time lol).

 

More importantly, keeping a republic spy in a leadership position is an opsec incident waiting to happen.

 

As for Lana

 

She's been a yes-woman for so long that I can't imagine what you have to do to get her to turn on the PC. I know the devs have mentioned committing war crimes on the Empire being a turning point, but she doesn't seem to care about civilians casualties in Onslaught.

 

This whole war crimes angle seems to be geared towards DS pub/imp sabatuer toons, what if loyalist imp/pub toons just want to get rid of her? Why do you have to do stupid evil actions to accomplish this?

[xordevoreaux]

KotFE/ET is written for the Jedi Knight class. Plain and simple.

This.

[xordevoreaux]

The title may be off, but you're in command of a Galactic Alliance that rivals and surpasses the Empire and Republic. You are the top dog, answerable to no one. I see it as a promotion.

 

...and your very next job after that is baby sitting a droid on Ossus from a bunch of baddies invading a farm.

[Hrafnhildur]

The Alliance story ( and all KOTFE/ET) makes zero sense if the character is a BH, especially to a non- Mandalorian. Why would he/she care about all the problems in Valkorion's family and so on? Why would he/she ally with the Republic or Empire ?

If the BH is a Mandalorian, things get even weirder, because the only leader they recognize is Mandalore, not Acina/Wovrawn or Supreme Chancellor whats-his-name. Why ally with anyone when they can just stay neutral, rule Odessen and not interfere in galactic politics? After all, Odessen could be defended by Mandalorians , so there's no need for Republic/Empire.

Why take orders from that little red vampire Rivix, when he has no authority whatsoever on Odessen?

[ceryxp]

Your arguments make no sense except the command experience.

 

Yeah, only if you disregard everything else that happens in the game.

[Eranis]

I have never been a big fan of the whole "there is a more powerful way than dark or light" storyline, so I am glad we are back to something a bit more cookie-cutter. There are enough possibilities for gray area storytelling in the Star Wars universe, but the Force is not it for me. I want my Jedi or Sith to be just that.

 

For me the problem was that going beyond dark and light is actually never explained. You're just supposed to figure it out by yourself and then suddenly you seem to get it and make a special weapon based on that. But the game actually never explains it. So I was left with questions that never got answered.

 

Well, luckily you could renounce the idea of a gray path and as Jedi/Sith say that you will not stray from the path of the LS or DS and it changes nothing. You still defeat the bad guy. Which actually supports the thought that all of this was just a ruse. I really like the idea of this whole chapter just being a manipulation from Valkorion. Makes it easier to swallow.

 

(But they keep harping on about the "gray path" since we still seem to have a Force Enclave in our base that promotes Jedi or Sith leaving their order which makes zero sense for loyalist Jedi or Sith to allow.)

 

I'm really curious to see how the Empress/Emperor actually feels about the PC/Alliance. Considering what they did to Malgus, it does not bode well for the commander. Acina seems very bitter if you don't rejoin and remain independent, giving a rather cold farewell at the end of Onslaught.

 

Despite their claims of reform, I fully expect the Empire to betray the PC once they defeat the Republic.

 

Right now it feels like they are keeping us at arm's length, even if we rejoined. I really hope not that even loyalists get betrayed in that case. That'd sting tbh.

 

Why take orders from that little red vampire Rivix, when he has no authority whatsoever on Odessen?

 

A question I have asked myself on all of my characters, even the loyalist ones.

[casirabit]

 

There was at least one time (after the Dantooine flashpoint) when you can "yell" at him for failing to keep you inform of the relics Malgus had taken and he does seem to try to step back from your characters and then promises (whether that will be kept or not remains to be seen) to inform your character the minute he knows anything from now on, so it does seem to indicate he knows he has no authority on Odessen and he knows it.

[Tsillah]

Yeah, only if you disregard everything else that happens in the game.

Sure, whatever. As I said, I'll agree to disagree. Not gonna fence with you on opinions and interpretations.