Jedi Guardian on the PTS!

[Raansu]

Didn't they make it clear that these were just predefined loadouts and they weren't indicative of what we would experience in later sessions?

 

That doesn't change the fact that it looks like we're losing baseline stuff. Now we have to choose to either have one or the other. At the end of the day its still a huge pruning and makes it feel very empty.

[sohioe]

That doesn't change the fact that it looks like we're losing baseline stuff. Now we have to choose to either have one or the other. At the end of the day its still a huge pruning and makes it feel very empty.

 

Eh, doubt we are tbh. Need to see that deep dive to confirm.

[Elracor]

I see. I'll wait till the deep dive and another PTS version before i come to a conclusion though, cause for all we know this could be poorly explained too.

 

It's pretty clearly explained though:

 

...

 

 

~Level 70 - Choose one Ability

• 
  
• Saber Reflect
  
• [A] Blade Blitz
  
• Enure
  

 

...

Edited July 9, 2021 by Elracor

[Garrek]

Please let this not be the case. Its dumb to oversimplify this much. Edited July 10, 2021 by Garrek

[GodKillerZero]

Horrible choice going down the World of Warcraft path(yes..you'll see this remark a lot, since around 70-80% of us are/were players of that game also), And you didn't even do it right

 

FLAWS:

1) removing a lot of baseline skills

 

2) not adding other skills. you're just recycling the same skills over and over with nothing new. lack of interest from the development team. you could've added some passives we picked that changed the abilities oh so slightly and we would've been happy. By using just 2 neurons for 10 seconds : jedi knight passive selection lvl 70 -> saber throw now jumps to another target / saber throw becomes an aoe with the sword spinning around you once / saber throw reduces the cooldown of a skill by 3 seconds

 

3) by removing skills and not adding new ones you've destroyed the balance in pve:

----tanks will have 1/3 defense buffs -> will take more dmg -> healer is pressured more (but wait ...healer has skills removed as well...even more pressure) -> healer can't heal = wipe ;

--- by some sort of luck ...tanks survives -> healer has no more resources / healer has less flexibilty to heal the dps or self -> wipe again;

--- even more miracles happen and somehow they all live -> dps does less dmg now since they are also nerfed -> boss enrages -> wipe (do remember that on the real servers max item level is built and we don't have max ilvl from the first second)

By doing all that you will need to balance the fights...dumbing them even more to be manageable. We like the button smashing. Just because the consoles have less buttons, or phones can have "mmo's" with 4 buttons and a movement trigger you don't and i repeat YOU DON'T need to satisfy them.

 

4) if you want to bring an influx of players --> GAME ENGINE, GAME ENGINE, GAME ENGINE. Ancient graphics don't support a game for 100 years.Also don't dumb down the game, improve it.

 

5)Also dev team should take in consideration how players react from the pts tests and reviews. PTS stuff is subject to change until the release date. Delay the expansion instead of releasing this mess and cutting the player base by 80%. Your planned release date is around the time Lost Ark is coming to EU, US. By doing simple math, the less money you have , the less likely it will be that you'll fix a broken launch.

 

Hope this helps and gives a bit of inspiration

Edited July 10, 2021 by GodKillerZero

[matthaxian]

I'm not gonna lie, reading these changes is heartbreaking.

As a player with 10,000+ hours invested in this game, It feels like you're asking me to choose which one of my kids I want to keep.

But I will do my very best to be constructive.

The addition of Loadouts is maybe the single best QOL improvement ever made to the game and I am so excited for it and all of the hours of gearswapping it will save me.

Please also make it clear to us that Utilities will be going away to be replaced by this new system and what you mean by "AP". Is that a new catchall term for class resource pools?

 

Vigilance/Vengeance has been my favorite spec to play in any video game for many years now because of how smooth the rotation is and how well rounded the mix of single target/aoe/survivability is.

It's not going to be the same after these changes. It will be a shell of its former self.

 

Please look back through the history of combat changes you have made in the game and why,

and realize it took a lot of hard work to get to the very good place you are currently in when it comes to both class balance and rotations, and don't underestimate the intelligence of your player base and the ability of new players who want to learn to learn.

 

~Level 20 - Choose one passive (applies to Focused Burst)

[A] Zenith - Increases critical chance after using Focused Burst

Focusing Strike - Focused Burst deals 15% more damage.

Unstable Focus - Focused Burst now hits in AoE.

 

This is an example of something you did right. You give us the option of a single target damage buff, an AOE damage buff, or a crit buff.

 

~Level 15 - Choose one ability or passive

Blade Burst - Blade Storm becomes AoE and slows.

Saber Throw - Gain the Saber Throw Ability.

[A] Energy Barrage - Adds Energy Damage to Blade Barrage and it now immobilizes the target.

~Level 35 - Choose one ability or passive

[A] Focused Mediation - Dealing damage with Force Energy generates AP.

Awe - Gain the Awe Ability.

Critical Conditions - Critical hits with Force Energy reduce the Cooldown of Combat Focus.

~Level 70 - Choose one Ability

Saber Reflect

[A] Blade Blitz

Enure

 

These are examples of things you did wrong. Making us choose between abilites is bad, but it also is going to seriously break endgame content for both PVPers and PVErs.

Also, utility choices that affect resource pools and cooldowns for dps are a bad idea in general because they break rotations or change the way they need to be played.

 

I get that you want to streamline things and reduce ability bloat, which allows you to add more abilities in the future.

Guardian is one of the least ability bloated classes, when compared to sentinel/gunslinger/commando.

I think making us choose between abilities is the wrong way to go. Its true dps and healers have too much survivability in pvp and way too many stuns and slows. If you want to prune one defensive ability, I get it, to make us choose one of 3 is too much.

 

 

I think there are better ways to accomplish this.

1. Make certain abilities discipline-specific. Example: only focus gets slash, only defense gets retaliation.

Vig gets vig thrust, focus gets force sweep, defense gets a buffed cyclone slash.

There is already a lot of this baked in like hew/dispatch and vigilant thrust/force sweep that should not be changed.

2. Roll "utility abilities" into other abilities as passives.

Chilling scream can become a passive of force sweep/cyc slash/vig thrust. Force Leap can be used on an ally from 0-30 Meters to replace guardian leap.

3. There are utility abilities across each class which you can't remove without badly breaking content..

These abilities are all also generally standardized across all classes and the ability to keybind them all to the same key across classes is a great benefit:

1. Interrupt

2. Stun Breaker

3. Threat Drop

4. Resource Generator

5. Hard Stun

6. Soft Stun/soft AOE stun

7. Movement boost

 

There are also abilities that are iconic to the advanced class, like saber throw and saber reflect that should remain.

 

I think a binary approach is preferable to giving us 3 choices because it sets things up better for you to standardize across classes. I would use this meta for a "binary choice approach":

1. Single target passive OR AOE passive (both for dps/tank and heal).

2. movement passive OR damage mitigation passive

3. (PVP-specific) Attack passive (root/slow etc) OR survivability passive (root/slow/stun immunity)

This is important for pvp balance, if you want to be that jerk globalling people with roots stuns and slows you should be a bit of a glass cannon too.

4. Offensive cooldown reduction OR defensive cooldown reduction

 

You can standardize these across classes as you make your other builds.

 

Please, I cannot stress this enough, do not make us choose between abilities in our path,

Imagine the confusion new tanks/heals/dps will have being asked to change their spec for every single fight of a fp/ops because of a change in mechanics. You will be making things much more complicated, not less.

 

I can live without enure and even saber ward but please dont touch my rotation, or iconic abilities like saber throw (very important to stop caps in pvp and pull mobs in PVE), saber reflect and focused defense.

Edited July 10, 2021 by matthaxian

[ingo_krieg]

Devs and fellow players. I really want to embody how I am feeling about these changes. however, I also want to reflect how there is a lack of communication from devs to players, and how backwards it is to have us "test" guardians right now.

 

"Trash, it is"

 

Thank you for the opportunity to say something, more details in a month.

[LordCamTheGreat]

Having played a bit more, I can safely say that Focus feels really fun to play (Focus A especially).

 

However, I do still sorely miss all my abilities that are missing.

Changing some defensives is good for pvp, but not pve - especially not for solo players, and certainly not for every class.

 

I firmly agree with others who have posted that you should be able to choose between PASSIVES.

Forcing us to choose between an ability or a passive is a terrible design choice.

I do really like the idea of choosing between multiple passives at certain levels to really tailor your style, more aoe, more crit, more defensive etc. But I really do not want to be put in a position where I must choose between an ability and a passive.

 

I've also found two bugs while playing focus. One is that the AOE blade storm hits enemies up to 100m away that you aren't even targeting.

 

Secondly, if you reach max focus and press combat focus, it drains all 12 focus and creates a force smash effect.

This feels like a bug but it is hilarious using enraged crush + smash + combat focus bug smash to one hit groups of mobs.

[Urthal]

This might be good for PVP. Classes are way too survivable and have been for a long time.

 

You don't balance PvP by completely messing up PvE balance, though. The right way to address it is by making abilities behave differently in PvP and PvE, pretty much what WoW did. They can tear damage and healing numbers separately for each mode.

[bbjjoorrkkmmaann]

If this is the wrong place for this feedback, I apologize. I selected Focus and Loadout "A". Yes, so far it still "feels" like a Guardian. I am curious, how extreme will my choices be? If I'm running a "Sage/Telekinetic" will I be able to choose Saber Reflect? If I'm running a "Guardian/Focus" will I be able to choose Salvation? I would think that at least a Knight would be able to trade out Saber Throw for a Consular's Project, but something tells me Knights won't be getting Powers like Salvation. Although it would be really cool if we had that much freedom, (although I wouldn't choose that particular power as a Knight). Maybe Consular Healers would be casting mad defense powers on ppl instead of healing them? and Tanks would be overcoming damage via crazy self heals vs damage reduction or defense. I'm totally pumped to find out! When is the next round of testing going to be available?

[sirytachi]

Everything about this sounds awful....Are you seriously breaking up Guardians defense skills?

 

I hope this is really JUST A TEST

Edited July 10, 2021 by sirytachi

[bladech]

Less abilities means less variety and less variety = less posibilities you play your class in different modes and styles. Less posibilities - less fun, less differences between classes, less interest in playing. MMOrpg isn't a mobile game, people here want more variety in playing all types of content.

[Elracor]

If this is the wrong place for this feedback, I apologize. I selected Focus and Loadout "A". Yes, so far it still "feels" like a Guardian. I am curious, how extreme will my choices be? If I'm running a "Sage/Telekinetic" will I be able to choose Saber Reflect? If I'm running a "Guardian/Focus" will I be able to choose Salvation? I would think that at least a Knight would be able to trade out Saber Throw for a Consular's Project, but something tells me Knights won't be getting Powers like Salvation. Although it would be really cool if we had that much freedom, (although I wouldn't choose that particular power as a Knight). Maybe Consular Healers would be casting mad defense powers on ppl instead of healing them? and Tanks would be overcoming damage via crazy self heals vs damage reduction or defense. I'm totally pumped to find out! When is the next round of testing going to be available?

 

It's nothing like this mate. Basically the loadouts will turn your Guardian into the class of your chosen loadout. If you play a Sage and pick Defence, your character will play exactly like a Guardian, with Guardian animations and everything. You'll just still be a Sage when doing story content.

[Slurmez]

Wow, this is not only terrible but its outright disturbing that someone inside the company thinks this is a good approach for things to go and has the confidence to present this mess to the players.

[Captain_Clone]

Less abilities means less variety and less variety = less posibilities you play your class in different modes and styles. Less posibilities - less fun, less differences between classes, less interest in playing. MMOrpg isn't a mobile game, people here want more variety in playing all types of content.

 

this.

[swedishranger]

this change is literally what has killed game after game SWG EVERQUEST WOW you name it DO NOT DUMB DOWN CLASSES ironic that your pulling the same mistake the last star wars mmo had Edited July 10, 2021 by swedishranger

[sirytachi]

"we are working to reduce the quantity of abilities but ensuring that the class remains distinct and unique."

 

This all seemed like a bad idea. I've been playing guardian vigilance for many years and what I saw on the PTS was like a frankstein from my class. No defense, no interrupt, not saber thorw , God, why can't I throw my saber at anyone anymore?

I don't even know what to think about what I saw, it's sad and hopeless to say the least. Please, if the force exists in this game, let it not allow you to do this damage.

Edited July 10, 2021 by sirytachi

[Slurmez]

4) if you want to bring an influx of players --> GAME ENGINE, GAME ENGINE, GAME ENGINE. Ancient graphics don't support a game for 100 years.Also don't dumb down the game, improve it.

 

This game needed a new engine at launch, Heroengine literally put out a press release disavowing their own product as Bioware bought a pre alpha version and bastardized it to the point that it embarrassed the creators. ESO used it as little more than a layout editor before binning it.

[supercometl]

It was and it wasn't xD If we are talking about DPS Guardians, they are a bit more tanky than PT's. But Defence/Immortal is one of the best specs rn, and clearly is the best tank in pvp.

 

They are the best tank in pvp because damage. Sin tanks still have a better ability to survive, but do NOTHING when it comes to damage. Like, when it comes to the tanks the odd one out is pt tank as they have the least ability to deal with yellow damage, compared to the other tanks.

[Darittha]

Making us choose between abilities is the worst thing, especially since you Biow already seems to want to force us to choose 1 out of 3 abilities necessary for that class. Saber Reflect or Blade Blitz or Enure? Pick one and lose other two? Im already expecting you to force assassins for pick between Shroud or Force Cloak(stealth pop) or Deflection. Having ppl to choose between abilities is pure evil.

 

Keep the set advanced class skill trees like we have now with choosable utilities, only introduce the ability to pick different advanced classes like you said, dont mess with skill trees and keep them as they are.

 

Ive been in this game since launch back in 2011 and nothing so far seemed like a dealbreaker - even when you ruined Phasing Phantasm utility for assassins(came close with that one though) but now? If you are going through with these changes having us to pick 1 and lose other 2 abilities i will seriously be reconsidering my devotion to this game because i dont see a reason to mess with the skill trees, making things so much worse, if you just wanna introduce ability to pick any tech/force advanced class.

Edited July 10, 2021 by Darittha

[SirrSlaughterr]

Just want to throw my two cents in here as well along with everyone else. I understand this is early 7.0 PHASE ONE testing, but DO NO go the route of streamlining each discipline and take abilities away that we have had for years. Fewer choices is NEVER the right way to go.

[ebinhovdloca]

IF this goes live in any remotely similar way the game will die

 

removing 1/3 of the abilities of each class will make gameplay dull and boring

[Darittha]

i re-read the thread again after my initial rant, i get that this is only the first phase of PTS, but overwhelming opinion is negative with people fearing to lose 2 out of 3 abilities - many of which are quite necessary to the advanced class.

 

if you at Biow wanted us to have a choice you just couldve rolled back to the pre-4.0 skill tree where we had proper choices and not give us this - whatever it is where we lose 66,6% of necessary abilities by the looks of it.

 

Your idea about possibility to pick any advanced class based on tech/force is a good one and got received well by many players, but keep it at that. Give us the ability to pick any advanced class but dont touch and mess up skill trees - keep them as they are now with set path + choosable utilities.

Edited July 10, 2021 by Darittha

[Screenplay]

Please, Please, PLEASE rethink this. Like please man, don't give me another "Great Pruning" like WoW did.....

The choices of the passive changes are really interesting but PLEASE man don't take away our abilities like I BEG

[ultimarb]

Please don' waste any resources to make an ui for this crap idea. dumb the hole part what is now on pts and pretend that it never happened.