Ability Delay -- Character Responsiveness (This will make or break SW:TOR)

[Terko_Koslah]

Then it is not instant. There are no "instant-instant" and "instant after a 1.5 second animation". It's either instant or it's not. So apparently it doesn't support a concept of proper english wording in this case.

 

Does the game have an instant? What do you think? Is it something all mmos should have?

[hoilandms]

Does the game have an instant? What do you think? Is it something all mmos should have?

 

 

There should be instants.

 

The second I click a skill, it should happen if the skill is an instant. If they want to include an animation with the instant skill, it better be a 1.5 second animation that can fit into the global cooldown. But the skill, the damage, the heal, or the interrupt should happen at the BEGINNING of that 1.5 second animation.

Edited December 30, 2011 by hoilandms

[Xcore]

As I stated above this game does not support a concept of instant in a similar manner as WoW. Although I see the point here. And I do not know of broken game mechanics as far as they are concerned.

 

I think you're mistaken, the combat system is just flawed currently. I honestly don't think Bioware expected this kind of analysis as of their combat system and it shows inexperience or naivety. There is "nothing wrong with making a little mistake" as long as its communicated and worked out...

 

I need to stress that I would not be so actively pursuing this subject unless I thought there was reason to believe that SW:TOR can be the next "WoW" in terms of mass success. I have not felt this way about Warhammer, Rift, Aion, LotRO etc.

 

 

Please don't accept this as "A new and different combat style" it is simply broken:

 

1) Interrupting Instant Casts is broken

2) Instant Casts not being instant (more than .3 is un-accptable)

3) Animations not in sync with UI Feedback (perfectly to the "t" is not acceptable)

4) Sound not in sync with Animation+Effect (perfectly to the "t" is not acceptable)

5) Animation taking priority to player input (movement, cancellation etc. is not acceptable)

6) Ability delayed from key press to effect is not acceptable

7) Spamming while on GCD affecting animation stutter/delay or any other bug is un-acceptable

 

 

This list can go on... this is "not" how combat is supposed to be... unless this is Bioware's response and they tell me that "Yep, combat is just a bit different here, we like our animations etc." I cannot accept that statement.

 

I apologize.

[Marabel]

I think it has to do with the server as less with the animations. Though the animations need the ability to be clipped by the player.

 

I first noticed this when I was in the huttball war zone. You know how when you die it puts up a force field? Well being the way I am I just kept "w" held down so that I would run through it the second it dropped.

 

What happened was the field dropped and I ran like two steps and then couldn't move again. Even though the field was gone I was stuck in the invisible "door" until I got deemed inactive and kicked out of the war zone.

 

I haven't queued for a war zone since.

 

I'm not sure if it is related to this issue but I think it may be. It's noticeable with casted skills and movement, its like the server still thinks you are moving. In my case the door was still there a few seconds after it dropped... and I got stuck in it.

[Xcore]

Does the game have an instant? What do you think? Is it something all mmos should have?

 

It has many instants, please don't be difficult. I'm not sure if you could create a good combat system without instants but Bioware has not attempted this so lets not treat it as if it has.

[Randkin]

There should be instants.

 

The second I click a skill, it should happen if the skill is an instant. If they want to include an animation with the instant skill, it better be a 1.5 second animation that can fit into the global cooldown. But the skill, the damage, the heal, or the interrupt should happen at the BEGINNING of that 1.5 second animation.

 

Exactly my point. Thank you. You shouldnt wait for an animation to finish before your instant hits, because it is not instant then. It just has a hidden cast bar. There's an obvious difference.

[hoilandms]

I think it has to do with the server as less with the animations. Though the animations need the ability to be clipped by the player.

 

 

 

Honestly, I don't even know if it is possible with this game engine or not, but I do NOT want animations to be clipped.

 

 

I would MUCH rather have animations speedup to fall into the "cast bar window" or the "GCD" window.

 

 

Yes, the instant "off the GCD" abilities would have to clip animations. Or they could just 'hit' and never clip and/or have their own animations.

 

 

Just my 2 cents.

[Zions_Child]

I hate it when I die in a warzone because as a smuggler I couldn't crouch for TEN SECONDS.

 

Seriously, when 2 of your 8 classes DEPEND on an ability activating for them to do ANYTHING, then the game has to actually activate that ability with some sort of timeliness.

And if one of you says "well you're not completely useless without cover" then I dare you to play a sharpshooter or gunslinger and not use cover in a major battle.

 

Also, I wonder if they're going to do anything about abilities randomly canceling themselves? I can't tell you how many times I've tried to use aimed shot and the game just decides that it won't work for five minutes.

[Farrenj]

I think this thread has fallen victim to hyperbole. Yes there's a clear issue with combat animations preventing new spells from being used and spells getting cancelled after cast times end or not being used at all. I don't think anyone who's taken a good long look at the problem will deny this.

 

This being said however it's still an enjoyable game. It's in no way 'unplayable' as many people have put it. The mechanics need to be improved and I'm sure they will thanks in part to the input from this thread but let's not make the game out to be a disjointed terrible experience that no one can handle for more than 2 seconds. It's a fun game. It has nice visuals, fun storylines, entertaining animations and a new world to explore. Or worlds if you prefer. It is very much a playable game. Nor does this problem means the game is broken. It's very much a functioning game with a flaw. Sure, a big flaw for many people. For other people it's not that big a deal. The story and environment is enough for them. I think the rather vocal crowd in these threads threatens to make some people who are taking a look at this game shy away when they absolutely shouldn't. Despite this flaw it's still a great game. Maybe the fix comes with a major content patch a year from now. Maybe they surprise and get it fixed within a few months. The problem here does not make all the other excellent work done on this game meaningless.

 

Just my 2 credits.

[Zions_Child]

I think this thread has fallen victim to hyperbole. Yes there's a clear issue with combat animations preventing new spells from being used and spells getting cancelled after cast times end or not being used at all. I don't think anyone who's taken a good long look at the problem will deny this.

 

This being said however it's still an enjoyable game. It's in no way 'unplayable' as many people have put it. The mechanics need to be improved and I'm sure they will thanks in part to the input from this thread but let's not make the game out to be a disjointed terrible experience that no one can handle for more than 2 seconds. It's a fun game. It has nice visuals, fun storylines, entertaining animations and a new world to explore. Or worlds if you prefer. It is very much a playable game. Nor does this problem means the game is broken. It's very much a functioning game with a flaw. Sure, a big flaw for many people. For other people it's not that big a deal. The story and environment is enough for them. I think the rather vocal crowd in these threads threatens to make some people who are taking a look at this game shy away when they absolutely shouldn't. Despite this flaw it's still a great game. Maybe the fix comes with a major content patch a year from now. Maybe they surprise and get it fixed within a few months. The problem here does not make all the other excellent work done on this game meaningless.

 

Just my 2 credits.

 

Have you played smuggler or imperial agent?

 

There have been times when I've logged out simply because of the frustration of not having an ability activate. At all. For minutes.

 

That is unplayable. If you were playing CoD, and the server decided that the grenade you threw wasn't actually being thrown for five seconds, you would say it was unplayable. Its the same in TOR.

[Xcore]

I hate it when I die in a warzone because as a smuggler I couldn't crouch for TEN SECONDS.

 

Seriously, when 2 of your 8 classes DEPEND on an ability activating for them to do ANYTHING, then the game has to actually activate that ability with some sort of timeliness.

And if one of you says "well you're not completely useless without cover" then I dare you to play a sharpshooter or gunslinger and not use cover in a major battle.

 

Also, I wonder if they're going to do anything about abilities randomly canceling themselves? I can't tell you how many times I've tried to use aimed shot and the game just decides that it won't work for five minutes.

 

I play Gunslinger and yes Aimed Shot is canceling itself, IA's have the same issue with Snipe. Also I fully agree with the assessment of cover delay, its terrible... oh and thats another example of "instant"... do this for testing purposes:

 

Smuggler:

 

1) Get Stunned

2) Trinket it

3) Go into portable cover

4) Knockback

 

This is: Stunned -> Instant (No GCD Trigger) -> Instant (No GCD Trigger) -> Instant (GCD Triggered)

 

So, 2 instants with no GCD triggers into another instant... this takes no less than 3-4+ seconds... how is that possible when its supposed to be under 2 seconds even if your reaction time/APM is god awful.

[DRLukasPHD]

The game is unpleyable now, as i've hit alderaan the delay issue became even more apparent, and now oscilate in 1 -1.2 seconds. I cannot play like this, i rolled another char, the delay is more menagable but it still exist. Seriously bioware will lose a lot of subs if they don't make something with this "lag" and they have to do it fast or they might aswell accept that those millions that rushed for the game after release will just pass after free month

[Kwonjah]

Yeah, this is probably the only thing the bothers me about SWTOR other then that, the game's great.

 

Sometimes I'll use a skill that takes 2.0 seconds to cast. (1.9 now with my alacrity) and it gets to the end and it doesn't use + the mob aggros me (or if I'm in PVP it takes me out of hide)

 

Also it will feel as if I'm silenced some times and can't use ANY of my skills for about 8 seconds.

 

When I use my mount and I keep getting kicked off... Jesus I hope this gets fixed. I really want this game to beat all other mmos especially GW2. HURRY AND FIX THIS

Edited December 30, 2011 by Kwonjah

[nilssen]

Played my mercenary to 34, spent about 60hours on him, now I've got the 1 hour queue everytime I try logging on, so I rolled a marauder, and man does this bring me back to the WAR days. Choppy melee and getting stuck in animations, this is hardly any better than what WAR was like.

 

Only positive is the fact that they "aknowledge" the problem and are working on it. Though I doubt there'll be a fix considering WAR's been the same since launch.

[Vastaire]

I hate it when I die in a warzone because as a smuggler I couldn't crouch for TEN SECONDS.

 

Seriously, when 2 of your 8 classes DEPEND on an ability activating for them to do ANYTHING, then the game has to actually activate that ability with some sort of timeliness.

And if one of you says "well you're not completely useless without cover" then I dare you to play a sharpshooter or gunslinger and not use cover in a major battle.

 

Also, I wonder if they're going to do anything about abilities randomly canceling themselves? I can't tell you how many times I've tried to use aimed shot and the game just decides that it won't work for five minutes.

 

Couldn't say it better & I share your pain.

 

I would say that snipers/smugglers are close to unplayable in warzones right now.

[Zions_Child]

I play Gunslinger and yes Aimed Shot is canceling itself, IA's have the same issue with Snipe. Also I fully agree with the assessment of cover delay, its terrible... oh and thats another example of "instant"... do this for testing purposes:

 

Smuggler:

 

1) Get Stunned

2) Trinket it

3) Go into portable cover

4) Knockback

 

This is: Stunned -> Instant (No GCD Trigger) -> Instant (No GCD Trigger) -> Instant (GCD Triggered)

 

So, 2 instants with no GCD triggers into another instant... this takes no less than 3-4+ seconds... how is that possible when its supposed to be under 2 seconds even if your reaction time/APM is god awful.

 

 

I know... Especially on that Alderaan warzone... there have been times when I've been unable to do anything for about fifteen seconds simply because nothing will activate because of all the god awful animations.

[SuperomegaOP]

o man.. i made a couple of threads about this back during closed beta...

 

they got a couple dozen pages before they died down

 

i wasnt playing closed beta but it was so apparent in videos that i had to say something...

 

didnt change anything for the looks of it

[Unseenhands]

I think this thread has fallen victim to hyperbole. Yes there's a clear issue with combat animations preventing new spells from being used and spells getting cancelled after cast times end or not being used at all. I don't think anyone who's taken a good long look at the problem will deny this.

 

This being said however it's still an enjoyable game. It's in no way 'unplayable' as many people have put it. The mechanics need to be improved and I'm sure they will thanks in part to the input from this thread but let's not make the game out to be a disjointed terrible experience that no one can handle for more than 2 seconds. It's a fun game. It has nice visuals, fun storylines, entertaining animations and a new world to explore. Or worlds if you prefer. It is very much a playable game. Nor does this problem means the game is broken. It's very much a functioning game with a flaw. Sure, a big flaw for many people. For other people it's not that big a deal. The story and environment is enough for them. I think the rather vocal crowd in these threads threatens to make some people who are taking a look at this game shy away when they absolutely shouldn't. Despite this flaw it's still a great game. Maybe the fix comes with a major content patch a year from now. Maybe they surprise and get it fixed within a few months. The problem here does not make all the other excellent work done on this game meaningless.

 

Just my 2 credits.

 

I agree that it's not game-breaking for me; I'm still having plenty of fun. I just want this game to be EXCELLENT and succeed on a ridiculous level. I think having fast and responsive combat will really push it to that level.

[Terko_Koslah]

I think you're mistaken, the combat system is just flawed currently. I honestly don't think Bioware expected this kind of analysis as of their combat system and it shows inexperience or naivety. There is "nothing wrong with making a little mistake" as long as its communicated and worked out...

 

I need to stress that I would not be so actively pursuing this subject unless I thought there was reason to believe that SW:TOR can be the next "WoW" in terms of mass success. I have not felt this way about Warhammer, Rift, Aion, LotRO etc.

 

 

Please don't accept this as "A new and different combat style" it is simply broken:

 

1) Interrupting Instant Casts is broken

2) Instant Casts not being instant (more than .3 is un-accptable)

3) Animations not in sync with UI Feedback (perfectly to the "t" is not acceptable)

4) Sound not in sync with Animation+Effect (perfectly to the "t" is not acceptable)

5) Animation taking priority to player input (movement, cancellation etc. is not acceptable)

6) Ability delayed from key press to effect is not acceptable

7) Spamming while on GCD affecting animation stutter/delay or any other bug is un-acceptable

 

 

This list can go on... this is "not" how combat is supposed to be... unless this is Bioware's response and they tell me that "Yep, combat is just a bit different here, we like our animations etc." I cannot accept that statement.

 

I apologize.

 

Just wanted to concur that all of the above mentioned are issues in the game I have experienced.

[chrisronline]

I'm simply posting to express that I 100% agree with this thread. This must be fixed ASAP. P0.

[Xcore]

I agree that it's not game-breaking for me; I'm still having plenty of fun. I just want this game to be EXCELLENT and succeed on a ridiculous level. I think having fast and responsive combat will really push it to that level.

 

I don't believe its hyperbole when you consider the effect this has in 3 months, 6 months, 8 months 3 years from now.

 

This very topic can be the difference between SW:TOR being Rift or WoW.

 

 

Is it unplayable and un-enjoyable right now? That depends on who you are, personally its very close. The Pro-Gamer and hardcore crowd is likely the first to notice these deficiencies and for them its a resounding "YES". The very casual who in fact is driven by the story and the other elements outside of combat, it would be a resounding "NO".

 

However, "fixing" (hate the term but..) this issue would elevate SW:TOR to potential excellence on the levels of WoW. I would say its not hyperbole because its a crucial decision that has to be made "now" because as history has shown us, in regards to this responsiveness issue in combat, if you fix it "down-the-line" it's too late, no-one will care anymore.

 

With GW2 on the horizon (and it appears they have nailed this) it is a very dangerous predicament for SW:TOR to be in. It is highly possible that this issue will not be resolved to satisfaction (WoW Standards of Gameplay Response) and SW:TOR will be left with a Rift like subscriber base that is there for the Star Wars, Story etc. elements.

 

I would consider that scenario a failure not only because of the sheer metrics but because of the "blown" potential... I state again, I fervently believe that Bioware and SW:TOR "has" the potential to be the next big thing but this is the key to it... not including LFG or Add Ons or Fixing a little bug here or there... This is it.

 

 

Now, if they see it that way or not... who knows? We sure don't as it has not been communicate that way.

[infamousNate]

if you want to test it, go make a sith maruader/jedi knight and spam vicious slash (and jedi equi). even though vicious slash is insta, if you SPAM it (i.e spam the button). the character will be hung on animations, and will take good 2-3 secs to actually attack

[Xcore]

if you want to test it, go make a sith maruader/jedi knight and spam vicious slash (and jedi equi). even though vicious slash is insta, if you SPAM it (i.e spam the button). the character will be hung on animations, and will take good 2-3 secs to actually attack

 

You will likely face the response of "Don't Spam Noob" or "Combat is Different, No Spamming". We covered this in the middle of Thread2...

 

Either way, yes you're right... and I'd like to add that when you get to a higher level of PvE and PvP you can't help but "spam" to minimize dead time between abilities.

[Unseenhands]

 

Is it unplayable and un-enjoyable right now? That depends on who you are, personally its very close. The Pro-Gamer and hardcore crowd is likely the first to notice these deficiencies and for them its a resounding "YES". The very casual who in fact is driven by the story and the other elements outside of combat, it would be a resounding "NO".

 

However, "fixing" (hate the term but..) this issue would elevate SW:TOR to potential excellence on the levels of WoW.

 

It is highly possible that this issue will not be resolved to satisfaction (WoW Standards of Gameplay Response) and SW:TOR will be left with a Rift like subscriber base that is there for the Star Wars, Story etc. elements.

 

I would consider that scenario a failure not only because of the sheer metrics but because of the "blown" potential... I state again, I fervently believe that Bioware and SW:TOR "has" the potential to be the next big thing but this is the key to it... not including LFG or Add Ons or Fixing a little bug here or there... This is it.

 

.

 

Agreed - and "not game-breaking for me" right now hasn't yet included high level pvp or raids, where this issue would be even more critical.

 

I think it just feels SOOOOO close; so the hyperbole doesn't mean the game will be or is a failure - it's just, as you said, might not live up to the POTENTIAL there. This one fix makes it have a chance to be amazing.

[Aethyrprime]

Thank the sith this is being looked in to. Edited December 30, 2011 by Aethyrprime