if you thought low/mid pvp was already horribly balanced.....

[foxmob]

True. I just figured most of the people doing mids weren't subbed in the first place.

 

I level through pvp after I've done the story once or twice per xpack. that's 20+ toons. it's also an opportunity to learn changes to the classes or re-learn rotations.

 

but there's something weird with gearing. wearing ossus gear with augs from 70-75, I really mash through 90% of the players. (not just 40s-60s). but in 75s, I hit like a wet noodle. so I think the bolster really is messed up for mids. I've been /facerolling across the kb on a concentration sent. iunno.

 

there are some other weird quirks about leveling 70-75. I go in there with gear that's 252-258 aug'd, but since it was in legacy gear from 5.x, I don't have the shells for set bonuses. with the more recent sent, I just bought the new 252s un-augmented. so here's the weirdness: quests reward me with (wait for it) 204 gear. LOTS of 204 gear. sometime 228(?) gear. it's beyond useless and doesn't even DC into tech frags. (remember when we used to be able to stockpile WZ comes in lows and mids so we could purchase the first tier of pvp gear?) the current system is like the inversion of that.

 

anyway...I like the fact that PVP leveling is slow b/c it gives me the opportunity to (re)learn different classes. however, I'm only doing for 5 or 10 levels, depending on the toon. I would go ******* crazy if I tried to level in pvp for more than that.

[TrixxieTriss]

I level through pvp after I've done the story once or twice per xpack. that's 20+ toons. it's also an opportunity to learn changes to the classes or re-learn rotations.

 

but there's something weird with gearing. wearing ossus gear with augs from 70-75, I really mash through 90% of the players. (not just 40s-60s). but in 75s, I hit like a wet noodle. so I think the bolster really is messed up for mids. I've been /facerolling across the kb on a concentration sent. iunno.

 

there are some other weird quirks about leveling 70-75. I go in there with gear that's 252-258 aug'd, but since it was in legacy gear from 5.x, I don't have the shells for set bonuses. with the more recent sent, I just bought the new 252s un-augmented. so here's the weirdness: quests reward me with (wait for it) 204 gear. LOTS of 204 gear. sometime 228(?) gear. it's beyond useless and doesn't even DC into tech frags. (remember when we used to be able to stockpile WZ comes in lows and mids so we could purchase the first tier of pvp gear?) the current system is like the inversion of that.

 

anyway...I like the fact that PVP leveling is slow b/c it gives me the opportunity to (re)learn different classes. however, I'm only doing for 5 or 10 levels, depending on the toon. I would go ******* crazy if I tried to level in pvp for more than that.

 

That’s how I use to level up my Alts till they destroyed it in 5.0 and it’s only kept going down hill since then.

[HaoZhao]

I want to give them the benefit of this doubt on this. Like, maybe level 10 raging burst now crits for 100K or something. Anything short of that, however, would make low level PVP absolutely miserable. Imagine some poor level 10 merc getting jumped by a level 72 operative who has everything except for the level 75 utility point.

 

It's too late to stop it now but I strongly suggest that the developers go and play some matches in the new lowbies. See how many people are level 70+ trolls playing characters from 5.0 which have their set bonuses, augments, stims, PVP relics, etc. They hide under their rocks during double EXP but absolutely go looking for them in a few weeks. People trying PVP for the first time at level 10 are not going to have a good time.

Edited April 27, 2021 by HaoZhao

[TrixxieTriss]

You don’t even get a stun break until lvl 16 or something. Lowbies with no DCDs or utilities or passives to mitigate damage. Edited April 27, 2021 by TrixxieTriss

[DavidAtkinson]

I want to give them the benefit of this doubt on this. Like, maybe level 10 raging burst now crits for 100K or something. Anything short of that, however, would make low level PVP absolutely miserable. Imagine some poor level 10 merc getting jumped by a level 72 operative who has everything except for the level 75 utility point.

 

It's too late to stop it now but I strongly suggest that the developers go and play some matches in the new lowbies. See how many people are level 70+ trolls playing characters from 5.0 which have their set bonuses, augments, stims, PVP relics, etc. They hide under their rocks during double EXP but absolutely go looking for them in a few weeks. People trying PVP for the first time at level 10 are not going to have a good time.

 

Give it a rest already.

 

Lowbies and mids were already garbage ever since 5.0 popped up with the command system and even more so now with this gearing system .

Basically there absolutely no point playing anything but endgame level PVP . And based on their decisions, Bioware doesn't want you to play too much low and mid pvp either .

[HaoZhao]

Give it a rest already.

 

Lowbies and mids were already garbage ever since 5.0 popped up with the command system and even more so now with this gearing system .

Basically there absolutely no point playing anything but endgame level PVP . And based on their decisions, Bioware doesn't want you to play too much low and mid pvp either .

 

Spoken like someone who hasn't played lowbies/mids in years and doesn't know what he's talking about. I made a new sentinel a few weeks ago and PVPed all throughout the grind from 10-75. I regularly destroyed players who were 20+ levels above me. People who think that level 10s are powerless against 40s don't understand how bolster works in lowbies. A critical level 10 ambush in lowbie PVP is literally the hardest hitting move in the entire game.

[meddani]

just got done playing a couple arenas/BGs...exactly as i feared, you're facerolling everything lmao. Edited April 27, 2021 by meddani

[BallisticKaine]

just got done playing a couple arenas/BGs...exactly as i feared, you're facerolling everything lmao.

 

And the Devs thought this would help increase pops or quality of games? This isn't going to increase them, it is going to slow them down. More than likely going to kill off the PvP in that bracket for most part. 8v8 will once again only be during peak times. It will be for most part midbie PvP before the 6.3 release. So nothing is going to change for midbie PvP players. I feel sorry for anyone that did lowbie PvP cause now they are getting the big ******** with this.

[meddani]

And the Devs thought this would help increase pops or quality of games?

tbf, pops are more than before, but yes quality wasn't that high to beginn with .

[TrixxieTriss]

tbf, pops are more than before, but yes quality wasn't that high to beginn with .

 

That will drop off quickly in the coming weeks as the novelty of the change wears off and the reality of it sinks in.

[Fraah]

Well, people are running warzones for the Seasons objectives too, I think.

 

I was in a 10-74 Odessen PG yesterday where a full 6 out of 8 people obviously had no idea what to do and just ran around in a group (not really searching for the other team or objectives....just sticking close to each other for company it seemed like).

[De-Rodales]

Who asked for this????? Why ????

Lowbie pvp was the last thing that was keeping me playing this game and subbing regularly.

It was the chillest mode where u can casually pvp and have fun no tryharding or anything.

Making alts and leveling only by pvping, then deleting and starting again,it was a last fun thing to do for me and my friend in pvp.

Now all I see is crazy imbalanced teams and it's just pointless. High level tears get so much more skills that it makes no sense to enter a wz until u are a level 51 at least. imagine chasing a smuggler 1vs1 with your smuggler while the other one can roll away and you just chasing him bare foot. WORST change ever. please bring back the way it was!

 

CHANGE IT BACK!!!!

[TrixxieTriss]

Who asked for this????? Why ????

Lowbie pvp was the last thing that was keeping me playing this game and subbing regularly.

It was the chillest mode where u can casually pvp and have fun no tryharding or anything.

Making alts and leveling only by pvping, then deleting and starting again,it was a last fun thing to do for me and my friend in pvp.

Now all I see is crazy imbalanced teams and it's just pointless. High level tears get so much more skills that it makes no sense to enter a wz until u are a level 51 at least. imagine chasing a smuggler 1vs1 with your smuggler while the other one can roll away and you just chasing him bare foot. WORST change ever. please bring back the way it was!

 

CHANGE IT BACK!!!!

 

I had 5 x sub lvl 30s chasing my lvl 62 Sorc and while they hit hard, they can’t kill you if you time your DCDs correctly and use your escapes. When they finally thought they had me, I used my force shield then force sped away and let my bubble stun keep them all in place while my team capped.

 

It’s an utter joke because they had no DCDs, one stun break if they were lucky and I ran circles around them. No one in their right mind is going to play this bracket of pvp till they are at least lvl 50. So if the idea was to increase numbers in the queue, it won’t work after a few weeks of this rubbish. All it will do is prevent any new players learning to pvp before lvl 50. Totally unneeded change

[De-Rodales]

I had 5 x sub lvl 30s chasing my lvl 62 Sorc and while they hit hard, they can’t kill you if you time your DCDs correctly and use your escapes. When they finally thought they had me, I used my force shield then force sped away and let my bubble stun keep them all in place while my team capped.

 

It’s an utter joke because they had no DCDs, one stun break if they were lucky and I ran circles around them. No one in their right mind is going to play this bracket of pvp till they are at least lvl 50. So if the idea was to increase numbers in the queue, it won’t work after a few weeks of this rubbish. All it will do is prevent any new players learning to pvp before lvl 50. Totally unneeded change

 

 

Exactly. This will just make more new players to stop even trying pvp. Instead of learning slowly in lowbie then mid tiers now you just won't learn a damn thing. Queue once, then never again. Getting farmed by a lvl 70 with your newly leveled 12 lvl sage , lol gl...It's very one sided, if a high lvl player is at least any good in pvp you won't have a chance when level difference is 30-40, and this is not just for new players . For those who enjoy lowbie tiers for fun like me , well goodbye too , I ain't even touching warzones anymore and no more active resubbing till the next expansion/story. so this is bye bye for me

I played this game since beta and from day 1 lowbie pvp was my favorite mode and still "is" was. Despite all the changes I didn't like in a game throughout the years, I still had this mode to enjoy with my friend , but not anymore/

For the argument of increasing numbers in queue , this isn't a solution. The real solution for that is to merge queues with other servers but they weren't able to do that for the past 10 years.

[Illedros]

Be careful about disrespecting the devs, they have removed two of my post because I have done that exact same thing and also called out a specific dev that has been in charge of the PvP changes since his return from the failed ANTHEM attempt. Just watch out for the community support that are removing posts to protect the little fragile egos of the dev team.

 

Yeah which seems unfair because there seems to be little accountability at SWTOR PVP. I think there are a number of hard questions that need to be asked. For example:

- When they implement changes in PVP, by what measure do they consider them successful?

- Do they even measure?

- Where are they getting their information from?

- Does the opinions of the PVP community matter in their decision making?

- How do they respond to overwhelmingly negative feedback? Why do they think there is so much negative feedback if they think their decisions are good?

- When the logic behind their PVP decisions isn't obvious or lacks clarity, are they required to justify the logic behind their decisions to anyone (eg - their management)?

- Can they arbitrarily make decisions in PVP without any regulation (with free reign)? Or must they submit all proposed changes to PVP to someone for approval before it is accepted into the game?

- Do they have some kind of agenda they're working towards that the player base can't see yet?

- Has management noticed the issues with PVP have been going on for some time now with little improvement (in fact they almost seem to be getting worse)? How are the devs responsible for this justifying their performance?

- Are the devs subject to any kinds of performance evaluation?

- Has management considered hiring new staff? (With the pandemic there are a number of people out of work who could be suitable).

- Given the failures of Anthem, is placing members of that dev team at the head of SWTOR PVP really the best option available?

- Given the PVP devs don't seem to be demonstrating how they got their jobs by the quality of their work, is the reason they have their jobs because of cronyism? Is this really the best thing for the game?

 

None of these questions have been answered and they probably never will be. They make poorly thought out decisions with seemingly no accountability then can't handle the criticism that comes their way. I wish I could have that in my job. Or anywhere else in the real world. Unfortunately in the real world if you screw up, it's on you and you get told. Simple as that. And if you screw up enough (and keep hiding from criticism/feedback with your head in the sand), your product/game gets cancelled eg Anthem.

 

I work in IT next to a development team that maintains software for scientific purposes. Where I work, there is no way a situation would deteriorate like SWTOR PVP (and it's reckless disregard for the end users) without the above questions being asked and without heads rolling. Our team is very sensitive to customer satisfaction because users can very easily go elsewhere resulting in us losing money. What I get out of SWTOR PVP I cannot get out of SWTOR PVE, it's just not the same. So if the PVP suffers, I have to go elsewhere. I imagine this is the same for many other SWTOR PVP'ers.

 

It's disappointing when people who are actually passionate about this game and really want it to succeed are subject to developers who only seem interested in collecting a pay check and who by their actions, don't actually play the game. Or if they do play, their view of the game is so skewed & warped, they become completely disconnected from the player base. Resulting in decisions many people don't like or even understand.

[TrixxieTriss]

Yeah which seems unfair because there seems to be little accountability at SWTOR PVP. I think there are a number of hard questions that need to be asked. For example:

- When they implement changes in PVP, by what measure do they consider them successful?

- Do they even measure?

- Where are they getting their information from?

- Does the opinions of the PVP community matter in their decision making?

- How do they respond to overwhelmingly negative feedback? Why do they think there is so much negative feedback if they think their decisions are good?

- When the logic behind their PVP decisions isn't obvious or lacks clarity, are they required to justify the logic behind their decisions to anyone (eg - their management)?

- Can they arbitrarily make decisions in PVP without any regulation (with free reign)? Or must they submit all proposed changes to PVP to someone for approval before it is accepted into the game?

- Do they have some kind of agenda they're working towards that the player base can't see yet?

- Has management noticed the issues with PVP have been going on for some time now with little improvement (in fact they almost seem to be getting worse)? How are the devs responsible for this justifying their performance?

- Are the devs subject to any kinds of performance evaluation?

- Has management considered hiring new staff? (With the pandemic there are a number of people out of work who could be suitable).

- Given the failures of Anthem, is placing members of that dev team at the head of SWTOR PVP really the best option available?

- Given the PVP devs don't seem to be demonstrating how they got their jobs by the quality of their work, is the reason they have their jobs because of cronyism? Is this really the best thing for the game?

 

None of these questions have been answered and they probably never will be. They make poorly thought out decisions with seemingly no accountability then can't handle the criticism that comes their way. I wish I could have that in my job. Or anywhere else in the real world. Unfortunately in the real world if you screw up, it's on you and you get told. Simple as that. And if you screw up enough (and keep hiding from criticism/feedback with your head in the sand), your product/game gets cancelled eg Anthem.

 

I work in IT next to a development team that maintains software for scientific purposes. Where I work, there is no way a situation would deteriorate like SWTOR PVP (and it's reckless disregard for the end users) without the above questions being asked and without heads rolling. Our team is very sensitive to customer satisfaction because users can very easily go elsewhere resulting in us losing money. What I get out of SWTOR PVP I cannot get out of SWTOR PVE, it's just not the same. So if the PVP suffers, I have to go elsewhere. I imagine this is the same for many other SWTOR PVP'ers.

 

It's disappointing when people who are actually passionate about this game and really want it to succeed are subject to developers who only seem interested in collecting a pay check and who by their actions, don't actually play the game. Or if they do play, their view of the game is so skewed & warped, they become completely disconnected from the player base. Resulting in decisions many people don't like or even understand.

 

There are three things that Bioware have demonstrate on a regular basis over the years with reg pvp in swtor.

 

1. Normal Logic is not part of their decision making process. At least it’s not logic that supports player enjoyment or participation to create a healthy and vibrant pvp eco system. If there is any logic, it’s flawed on so many levels,

 

2. They don’t care about negative player feedback or player enjoyment in regs. It’s as simple as that because if they did care, they would do things differently. But let me be clear, I’m not saying individual devs don’t care (I’m sure many do), I’m saying Bioware management don’t care because they’re the ones that implement the changes.

 

3. A mistake will never be admitted and reviewed, that is why they often revisit old mistakes from the games past. I’m sure the motto is, “it didn’t work last time, but I’m sure we were right, let’s try that again”.

[Illedros]

There are three things that Bioware have demonstrate on a regular basis over the years with reg pvp in swtor.

 

1. Normal Logic is not part of their decision making process. At least it’s not logic that supports player enjoyment or participation to create a healthy and vibrant pvp eco system. If there is any logic, it’s flawed on so many levels,

 

2. They don’t care about negative player feedback or player enjoyment in regs. It’s as simple as that because if they did care, they would do things differently. But let me be clear, I’m not saying individual devs don’t care (I’m sure many do), I’m saying Bioware management don’t care because they’re the ones that implement the changes.

 

3. A mistake will never be admitted and reviewed, that is why they often revisit old mistakes from the games past. I’m sure the motto is, “it didn’t work last time, but I’m sure we were right, let’s try that again”.

 

It's so utterly disappointing to know something I really want to succeed and really enjoy is in the hands of people like this and there's nothing I can do about it. When this game eventually dies and the servers are closed it will be such a bitter disappointment thinking about the game and what it could have been and a great source of frustration to know they had so many chances over the years but kept making things worse and not listening. So poorly managed, so poor...whatever these people are being paid, it's too much for their quality of work.

[BallisticKaine]

How come JackieKo, KeithKanneg, ChrisSchmidt, or EricMusco have not chimed in on any of these changes and concerns that players have brought up? Granted it has only been a couple days, but still. Some of these items got brought up when the patch notes got released. These changes to low and mid pvp boggle the mind on them. Heck we have never really heard more about some of the pvp changes than they are still gathering info. And before we actually get more info on that they changed more things. Come on guys wake up!!!! Edited April 29, 2021 by BallisticKaine

[TrixxieTriss]

How come JackieKo, KeithKanneg, ChrisSchmidt, or EricMusco have not chimed in on any of these changes and concerns that players have brought up? Granted it has only been a couple days, but still. Some of these items got brought up when the patch notes got released. These changes to low and mid pvp boggle the mind on them. Heck we have never really heard more about some of the pvp changes than they are still gathering info. And before we actually get more info on that they changed more things. Come on guys wake up!!!!

 

The cone of silence is always Biowares approach to controversial changes they know will be unpopular. They go silent and hope the rage dies down. I was hoping JackieKO would not become trapped in the Bioware culture so fast. But it seems she has, which is a shame and why communication has dropped off again. I’d happily be proved wrong, Jackie?

Edited April 30, 2021 by TrixxieTriss

[ALaggyGrunt]

This is a late April fools joke, right? OR did they forget the part in the notes that says “all players will now be granted lvl 74 abilities and utilities when entering entry lvl pvp”.

 

They can’t honestly believe that lvl 10s can compete in any way with lvl 74s or that this will be a fun experience for anyone. Please tell me they over looked something in the notes (like they obviously already did by referring to the bracket as 1-74 and not 10-74).

 

Also where are the changes to the entry lvl mission to not require winning to get your first left side equipment. Surely they don’t expect lvl 10s with missing gear to win against lvl 74s that are probably fully geared with Ossus set bonus gear.

 

Lastly, no update on the win requirement for regs or back filling games that are a certain loss. I didn’t expect any changes to the lock out, but if they are going out of their way to merge the lowbie and mid brackets, I would have expect some more changes to make it fairer. Instead we get another abortive change that is the last nail for lowbie pvp.

 

I do hope they missed a chunk of notes. If not, this is possibly the dumbest **** BioWare have ever done to pvp in this game and the people making these choices should be demoted.

 

They better have also been granted the extra minute or so to untangle the confused mess that BW's granting of skills throws down.

[De-Rodales]

I'm also posting request to bring back lowbie pvp on twitter. Just copy paste on each new post they make. Until it gets any kind of attention.

If my youtube channel DuduFilm has any kind of small influence / weight in the saying on this matter that this is what it is : Devs need to address this issue and bring back lowbie pvp as it was. right now it's a mess , lvl 10 vs 74 is not a fun experience. It was fine as it was , this change is not needed!

I hope dev team will react to this issue soon , lowbie pvp was my favorite mode in the entire game, bring it back!

May the force serve you well.

[Emperor_Cain]

I don’t post very often, but I definitely want to add my voice to this topic. Merging the brackets is completely inexplicable to me. Essentially what this does is create an environment where your games are essentially determined by group finder and not the players themselves (especially if you want to queue under lvl 50). On its own this is bad, but combined with the requirement for wins in order to progress dailies/weeklies, it becomes a joke. Lowbies are where you’re supposed to learn how pvp works. Anyone hoping to learn who stumbles into this will learn “can’t win, don’t try.”

 

At the very least return the daily/weekly requirements to what they were if there’s to be any point to queuing before lvl 50.

[sniperzzzz]

Wow, BW Really don't like anyone criticizing their PVP dev team do they. Got a warning and post deleted, for telling them how much they have neglected PVP development & we all know it, yet they do nothing about it. I stand by what I said, no amount of censorship will silence me, you will have to ban me.

 

So here it is again PVP devs, why did you merge the PVP brackets? Do you realize what the consequences of this decision means for lower level players who want to have fun leveling through PVP? Did you even think about it first?

Why don't you guys talk to your customers (Yes us your "Paying" customers) about anything PVP?

 

We are treated like lepers, the forgotten. You won't even communicate with us. And when we get mad & frustrated, you send in the BW forum police to censor us. Its amazing, you can employ people to shut down our opinions, but no one to communicate with us about our concerns. When my sub ends I won't be back, I hope others who are unhappy will do the same. That's the reason nothing changes, because you are allowed to get away with it.

[Xertasian]

That actually makes more sense than this. Then they could boost everyone up to lvl 75 when you enter pvp and give you access to all abilities, utilities, tech frags for rewards and lvl 75 gear to wear in pvp.

 

this is gonna leave a bad after taste in my mouth.. few times in this game i agree with your post.. many games do this now.. let say lvl 10 be geared as lvl 75 and pvp with all the perks.. this will also make you learn your class by playing against skilled players.. also this should help out the population in que time..

[BallisticKaine]

Wow, BW Really don't like anyone criticizing their PVP dev team do they. Got a warning and post deleted, for telling them how much they have neglected PVP development & we all know it, yet they do nothing about it. I stand by what I said, no amount of censorship will silence me, you will have to ban me.

 

So here it is again PVP devs, why did you merge the PVP brackets? Do you realize what the consequences of this decision means for lower level players who want to have fun leveling through PVP? Did you even think about it first?

Why don't you guys talk to your customers (Yes us your "Paying" customers) about anything PVP?

 

We are treated like lepers, the forgotten. You won't even communicate with us. And when we get mad & frustrated, you send in the BW forum police to censor us. Its amazing, you can employ people to shut down our opinions, but no one to communicate with us about our concerns. When my sub ends I won't be back, I hope others who are unhappy will do the same. That's the reason nothing changes, because you are allowed to get away with it.

 

Yeah and my post got removed also because I had quoted yours. WTH Community Support? DEV fragile egos are getting hurt by all the negative feedback they are getting regarding this new change. Way to go guys.