darkzannah Posted March 19, 2021 Share Posted March 19, 2021 gsf are unbalanced need to reboot entirely gsf all composant of gsf are useless we have to rethink everything because it dates back more than 5 years or 6 years without a major modifcation which is a lot. new comer in gsf are unbalanced against players who have all the options on their ships while in pvp there is the boost in gsf no aid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DakhathKilrathi Posted March 19, 2021 Share Posted March 19, 2021 (edited) I really want to just "lmao" and move on. But that wouldn't be productive. I don't think you're going to listen to me, but someone else who sees this thread might, and I want to try anyway. Every player I reach is a player that might be able to enjoy what really is the best game mode in SWTOR. So here goes. Hi! I'm Dakhath, better known in game as Sriia or Zyrieas (or Faleri, lately). I've been playing GSF since launch and like to think I'm pretty good at it. I understand that GSF has a pretty steep learning curve and it can be frustrating to die repeatedly when you don't understand how or why that keeps happening. We all started there, believe it or not. It took me a few hundred games before things really clicked for me. These days? My solo win rate is something like 70% - 80%, because I took the time to understand the mechanics and how things work. My reaction time really isn't all that great. If I can manage to play well, most people can. It really is just a matter of knowledge. Unfortunately, Bioware doesn't explain the game terribly well. Fortunately, many players in this game mode are all too happy to help! Please feel free to join the GSF Discord (link in my signature or click here) and ask any questions at all. There are no stupid questions. I also recommend Despon's The basics are the same, and the 5.5 video covers what points changed. Each video is quite short but teaches you something important. Swtorista also wrote a pretty good guide from the perspective of a frustrated player. Start here: https://swtorista.com/articles/swtor-galactic-starfighter-guide/#I_Got_One-Shot Also check her channel as she has put together a Additionally, Hayward over on torcommunity.com is putting work into compiling a list of builds for each ship. As far as I know it's still a work in progress, but it's worth checking out. With that out of the way, let's get into the point by point: gsf are unbalanced need to reboot entirely gsf all composant of gsf are useless GSF is actually in a good place re: balance. There are a couple of things that could use some tweaking (hey devs, waiting for news on remote slicing if you're reading this!) but overall most ships have something they're good at and most tactics have some sort of counterplay. That's a good thing! Most components have a purpose. There's a small handful of components that aren't very good, but I also don't know how you could make them good because of the way they function. No amount of balance changes will make fortress shield good, for example. A component that requires you to sit still is just bad. Doesn't matter how much you get in shields, especially when shield piercing and/or weapons that do direct hull damage exist. we have to rethink everything because it dates back more than 5 years or 6 years without a major modifcation which is a lot. The last balance pass was in 5.5. There were some matchmaking changes that came after that. It's been about three and a half years at the most, and as everything is in a pretty good place, that's fine. I would rather have a well-balanced game mode that doesn't get touched often than one that's poorly balanced but changes all the time. new comer in gsf are unbalanced against players who have all the options on their ships while in pvp there is the boost in gsf no aid There is no bolster because it's not needed. A good player in a totally stock ship can clean house, though it is admittedly harder. Gear helps, but only where skill is equal. You don't have to have a mastered ship to make a contribution, either; you need only the first couple of upgrades for each tier, and this game hands out requisition at such a crazy rate now that you should have it within your first ten games. Less, if you use your intro quest requisition to buy those first couple of tiers on a ship or two. What's unbalanced is the knowledge gap, but I think you'll find that most players who are any good at the game are all too eager to help people learn. We want nothing more than more competition, so by all means, please join us in Discord or in your server's GSF channel (/cjoin gsf) to ask questions. Good luck out there, and I hope we see you around. Edited March 19, 2021 by DakhathKilrathi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philwil Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 What that person said. This is the situation. New people dont have the skill. Like zero. They dont know what to do on the different maps. Of which, there are only two different match types. If, everyone started out with the same build out on ships, the veteran pilot will always win out. So, ship load out doesnt matter. Besides, if you wanted to you could master one ship in 22 matches. Way easier than the 77 it used to take. So, at this point, count your blessings its this easy. Put in some work, figure things out. See ya in about six months to a year. At that point, come back and read this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkzannah Posted March 20, 2021 Author Share Posted March 20, 2021 in unranked pvp a new one has a chance to kill an experienced player while in gsf a new one the new one makes him kill repeatedly by the experienced player without having a chance to hit him. Here is where the gsf is very unbalanced, a new 98% chance of dying when in unranked it is less certainthe system for the ships is too complicated with the crews it is even more complicated, a new player does not know where to put the points, in addition with the additional ships it adds complexity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DakhathKilrathi Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 (edited) in unranked pvp a new one has a chance to kill an experienced player while in gsf a new one the new one makes him kill repeatedly by the experienced player without having a chance to hit him. Here is where the gsf is very unbalanced, a new 98% chance of dying when in unranked it is less certainthe system for the ships is too complicated with the crews it is even more complicated, a new player does not know where to put the points, in addition with the additional ships it adds complexity. Okay, you didn't read what I said then. I should simplify it. Yes, GSF is complicated. Complex and unbalanced are not the same thing. There are a lot of people who want to help you learn it. Click the link in my signature if you want to learn. Actually read my above post (which you obviously did not) for more information. Edited March 20, 2021 by DakhathKilrathi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerofvoid Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 in unranked pvp a new one has a chance to kill an experienced player while in gsf a new one the new one makes him kill repeatedly by the experienced player without having a chance to hit him. Here is where the gsf is very unbalanced, a new 98% chance of dying when in unranked it is less certainthe system for the ships is too complicated with the crews it is even more complicated, a new player does not know where to put the points, in addition with the additional ships it adds complexity. Can you describe what you think should be done about this? Other than having a better in-game tutorial which I think everyone here would agree with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enticy Posted March 21, 2021 Share Posted March 21, 2021 in unranked pvp a new one has a chance to kill an experienced player while in gsf a new one the new one makes him kill repeatedly by the experienced player without having a chance to hit him. Here is where the gsf is very unbalanced, a new 98% chance of dying when in unranked it is less certainthe system for the ships is too complicated with the crews it is even more complicated, a new player does not know where to put the points, in addition with the additional ships it adds complexity. I’m not 100% certain what you qualify as a “new player” versus an “experienced player” in terms of PvP. If you mean experience with class mechanics and skills, then I highly disagree. If you mean experience in terms of war zone mechanics and arenas, then I still disagree. New players don’t beat experienced players until they gain experience and learn. I don’t want to say “git gud”, because it’s not productive. But, in terms of gsf, you kind of just have to feel it out and do it until you learn. Also, look at the resources provided by Sriia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkzannah Posted March 21, 2021 Author Share Posted March 21, 2021 a new one with an empty ship will be massacred in gsf whereas in unranked even of average stuff or 306 a new player can manage to kill good player which is very rare in gsf. for this I invite you to look at the average number of medals in gsf to look at the quality of the players, it is between 0 and 4 medals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerofvoid Posted March 21, 2021 Share Posted March 21, 2021 a new one with an empty ship will be massacred in gsf whereas in unranked even of average stuff or 306 a new player can manage to kill good player which is very rare in gsf. for this I invite you to look at the average number of medals in gsf to look at the quality of the players, it is between 0 and 4 medals Who are you replying to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramalina Posted March 21, 2021 Share Posted March 21, 2021 a new one with an empty ship will be massacred in gsf whereas in unranked even of average stuff or 306 a new player can manage to kill good player which is very rare in gsf. for this I invite you to look at the average number of medals in gsf to look at the quality of the players, it is between 0 and 4 medals A player with 306 gear in a battleground is very unlikely to be truly new to PvP. Even a player with 270 gear is unlikely to be new at PvP. A truly new, or just poorly skilled player, will be utterly demolished by a skilled player in a warzone or unranked arena. To the point where a healer can kill a person by spamming a basic attack that they've had since level 10, and yes, I've done that to people in warzones. On the basis of a lot of experience with world PvP back when that was a thing on some servers, at similar gear levels a highly skilled player can demolish 2 - 8 less skilled players and camp their dead bodies to the point where they either choose to go quest on a different planet or form a 12+ person ops group to go after the ganker. I can remember on Republic fleet chat, "Zod on Oricon, anyone want to join ops group to kill him?" Basically one really good PvPer was able to become a world boss by being so much better at PvP than weak players that he made PvE questing in the daily area non-viable unless a raid group (or one or two skilled PvP players) organized to stop him. In GSF: Ship balance even with no upgrades, is far better right now than class balance in warzones has ever been. There is no gear reset. Once a character has their ships geared, they are geared forever. You can even gear alts with surplus GSF rewards if you know where the vendor on fleet is. Practically no one does, but it is there. GSF is still mostly standard MMORPG fight mechanics: Classes, gear, ability effects, ability ranges, ability cooldowns, hit chance modifiers, damage chance modifiers, health bars, healing, line of sight, kiting, terrain, map awareness, map objectives, timed matches, wildly unbalanced matchmaking, people who are clueless, people who are just there for conquest, people who are AFK because their dog just pooped on the rug, etc. The game engine forces the basic mechanics of GSF and warzone PvP to be the same in most respects. If you have learned ground PvP, you have already learned a lot of the skills you need in GSF, even if you don't realize it yet. The major differences are: movement system, speed of movement, all classes are ranged classes in GSF, and in GSF damage is burst damage that happens really fast on small health pools with not much healing available. Unlike in warzones, there's no way a healer can save you from your own mistakes, so you have to actually learn the mechanics if you don't want to constantly die. To hit things you NEED to understand: weapon firing arcs, tracking penalty, weapon ranges, accuracy/evasion, and the flying and mouseover skills involved in getting a target centered before you shoot. Given half an hour a skilled pilot can teach a new pilot in GSF how to score kills on an ace with either railguns or proton torpedoes. Sure, the noob will still die, A LOT, but they will get hits and kills. I don't think you could teach a completely new PvP player how to score a kill on someone with a good ranked arena matchmaking score in that amount of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broba Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 It used to be far worse in terms of leveling ships. Everything cost twice as much and requisition grants were not as easy to come by. Objectively speaking though, it is possible to get kills with a vanilla ship, BUT only after developing a comfortable skill set. Going against gunships going 28-0 (see above) during an introductory round of gsf can be quite deflating I bet. However stick to it, the more you fly and familiarize with maps and ship components the better it will get. As a personal suggestion start with the star guard / rycer and replace rapids with ion cannons after your first match. With absolutely nothing upgraded, this will give you an already formidable offensive output and enough survivability to gain your footing in space combat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ttoilleekul Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 I can't add anything that hasn't already been expertly covered. But I will say is this. GSF is not the type of flight sim you can come in smash buttons and compete with veterans. It takes skill, knowledge and tenacity to do well. What we the community DO NOT like: is people coming into the mode and immediately having a rant about how bad it is when they have zero experience and no qualifications to suggest changes in a mode they know nothing about. What we the community DO like: is people coming into the game mode, realizing its hard, and asking for help to learn the ropes and get better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForfiniteStories Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 If you're a new player, I highly recommend flying the Flashfire. It doesn't require upgrades or skill for it is already perfect. And if someone manages to take you down, know that it is of no fault of yours; they were simply cheating. Unless, of course, it is another Flashfire. In that case, they are not a cheater, but a traitor! Try not to get mad about it though, like I have done from time to time. They had no other choice as it is impossible to best a Flashfire otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oobidoo Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 GSF is actually in a good place re: balance. are you high? T1F is ridiculosly overpowered as is ion cannon on the quarrel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toraak Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 (edited) If you're a new player, I highly recommend flying the Flashfire. It doesn't require upgrades or skill for it is already perfect. And if someone manages to take you down, know that it is of no fault of yours; they were simply cheating. Unless, of course, it is another Flashfire. In that case, they are not a cheater, but a traitor! Try not to get mad about it though, like I have done from time to time. They had no other choice as it is impossible to best a Flashfire otherwise. I'd never suggest a new player fly that. If they are new to GSF the T1F is the best thing they can learn on. Scouts are to fragile for new players. The T1F will make them learn how to aim with lasers but have some sturdiness to them, so they won't die in a 2-3 second window. Remember new players won't be paying attention to if they're shields are being hit right away. I'm taking it as a joke about only a Flashfire can kill a flashfire. Anything can kill any ships, and Flashfires are no exception to this. Of course new players may read your comment and not realize it's a joke. Edited March 22, 2021 by Toraak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerofvoid Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 As a recently-new player, I would recommend new players start with this build: T2F: (Pike/Quell) with: Heavy Laser Cannon (primary weapon): Hitting targets at a distance feels easier and more reliable to me, and that's HLC. This will start out playing second fiddle to proton torpedoes, but as you get better it will become a larger part of your gameplay. Proton Torpedo (secondary weapon): The heaviest-hitting missile, with the longest range. This is your main weapon. EMP Missile (secondary weapon): A faster-locking missile that offers some utility and AoE, and shares the proton torpedo's shield-and-armor penetration. This is a backup weapon. Quick-Charge Shields (shield): This makes you more durable against weapons that don't ignore shields Barrel Roll (engine): This missile break ability may have a long cooldown, but it moves you a long distance before you become vulnerable to missiles again. Aim yourself so you wind up near cover when this ends. Damage Capacitor: This makes your laser do more damage without increasing its energy cost, so you can be less cautious about when you start and stop firing than with a frequency capacitor Efficient Targeting magazine: This makes you lock missiles faster, and missiles are the reason you fly a T2F. Lightweight Armor: Evasion is generally a better defense than the other options Regeneration Thrusters: Engine power is important, and this will get you so much more of it. I use this with the usual crew: Pub: Copilot: B-3G9 (Hydrospanner) Offense: B-3G9 (+6% accuracy and 12% missile cooldown reduction) Defense: Nadia Grell or Tanno Vik (+5% evasion, +10% shields) Tactical: Lord Scourge (+3km sensors, +5km communication) or Kendra Novar (+3.5km front sensors, +5km communication) Engineering: C2-N2 (+15% engine power, -13% engine cost) Imp: Copilot: Blizz (Hydrospanner) Offense: Gault (+6% accuracy and 12% missile cooldown reduction) Defense Vector (+5% evasion, +10% shields) Tactical: Mako (+3km sensors, +5km communication) or Salana Rok (+3.5km front sensors, +5km communication) Engineering: Blizz (+15% engine power, -13% engine cost) I've heard that the T1F is better than the T2F, but that uses builds that depend far more on lasers than missiles, and missiles feel a lot easier to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramalina Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 (edited) are you high? T1F is ridiculosly overpowered as is ion cannon on the quarrel Explain, elaborate, give details and justifications. Well, do that if you want Devs to take you seriously and make changes. I've heard that the T1F is better than the T2F, but that uses builds that depend far more on lasers than missiles, and missiles feel a lot easier to me. They're fairly close. Missiles ARE easier for most new players. In high skill level play, which ship is stronger depends on build, on teamwork, on team composition, and enough other factors that you'd have to get very specific scenarios to get wide agreement on one being slightly better than the other in a particular case. Edited March 23, 2021 by Ramalina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oobidoo Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 As a recently-new player, I would recommend new players start with this build: T2F: (Pike/Quell) with: [*] EMP Missile (secondary weapon): A faster-locking missile that offers some utility and AoE, and shares the proton torpedo's shield-and-armor penetration. This is a backup weapon. [*] Quick-Charge Shields (shield): This makes you more durable against weapons that don't ignore shields [*] Damage Capacitor: This makes your laser do more damage without increasing its energy cost, so you can be less cautious about when you start and stop firing than with a frequency capacitor. Agreed, except id advocate for: - Ion over EMP missiles - Feedack shield once your used to flying it - Range capacitor instead of dmg I've heard that the T1F is better than the T2F, but that uses builds that depend far more on lasers than missiles, and missiles feel a lot easier to me. T2F > T1F if your lag sux imo. Hopefully some newbie reads this and doesnt have to suffer the pain of working out whats good lol PS Buff bombers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oobidoo Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 Explain, elaborate, give details and justifications. Well, do that if you want Devs to take you seriously and make changes. Why T1F is op: - only slightly slower than scouts - only slightly less agile/mobile than scouts, ie, turn rate, engine power/regen - highest dps and from 8km range (and can choose from two super high dps primay options) - tankier than everything except shield specced bombers so bascially they have no weakness in comparison to other options. Why the T1GS ion cannon is op: - Highest range - Very high damage - ~50% dmg to 3-4 enemies within 5-6km (AoE) - this often wipes out a complete nest of drones, etc without u even knowing theyre there - each hit takes 1/2 ur engine AND weapon power - AND either a 40% slow or 65% energy regen reduction way too much for one weapon type. It's not hard to work out whats op when the top 2-3 damage and kills of the vast majority of games are double or triple everyone elses stats and its either a T1F or a T1GS. Everyone knows this which is why i didnt bother writing it out in the first place. T1F and Ion cannon are the ranked pvp equivilent of skank tank juggs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramalina Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 Why T1F is op: - only slightly slower than scouts - only slightly less agile/mobile than scouts, ie, turn rate, engine power/regen - highest dps and from 8km range (and can choose from two super high dps primay options) - tankier than everything except shield specced bombers so bascially they have no weakness in comparison to other options. Why the T1GS ion cannon is op: - Highest range - Very high damage - ~50% dmg to 3-4 enemies within 5-6km (AoE) - this often wipes out a complete nest of drones, etc without u even knowing theyre there - each hit takes 1/2 ur engine AND weapon power - AND either a 40% slow or 65% energy regen reduction way too much for one weapon type. This is a good start, it's the sort of list of concerns that the Devs tend to take seriously They may be a bit confused by the following things though: Why a ship designed for a dogfighting role shouldn't have the speed and maneuverabiltiy to dogfight (and which is the exact same as the T2F which you aren't complaining about). Why the DPS is to high when math indicates that it's broadly in line with other ships, this came up when the piledriver technique was first discovered, and there's an old thread somewhere here that goes over DPS comparisons between piledriver technique and things like Targeting Telemetry fueled burst damage. Or was it on Discord? It was a long time ago and I don't remember. Which Primaries does the T1F have that are "super high" dps? Mostly it has the longest range and easiest to use primaries, but they're at the bottom of the list for Primary DPS. Not by a lot, but the short range weapons get higher DPS to compensate for being harder to use. They're going to be VERY surprised that the T1F is tankier than a T3F, and perhaps slightly surprised that you find a 100 point difference between the T1F and T2F significant. It COULD be significant, but explain why a 2.5% difference in health matters. The other strikes really aren't any weaker than the T1F, and both of the other strikes bring more team utility than the T1F can. Do all strikes need to be nerfed? For that matter the T2F can top the leaderboard with considerably less skill and effort than it takes in the T1F, is that not a problem? If it is what should be done? For the Ion Railgun Range and damage are about the same as the other railguns. Ion Railgun DPS drops by about 75% once shields are down, so it doesn't really do well after the first, or maybe second shot on a target. If Slug can do 1866 damage to hull, what's the problem with Ion doing 1800 to shields? The Ion AOE splash damage has a distinct animation and sound. It's not a stealth weapon. Are the animation and sound not obvious enough? What would make it easier for players to spot that they just got hit by ion splash (other than playing hundreds or thousands of games and getting hit by it enough times to recognize it)? Brighter animation? Longer sound? Specific warning icon? There are a lot of stronger drain/disable abilities in GSF. Why is Ion Railgun's too much? The range? The rate at which it can be spammed? The duration of the effects? Also how should the T1G defend itself? Part of the design of Ion Railgun is that if an opponent gets close the gunship is in big trouble. Ion Railgun drain and slow make for a competitive match against other ship classes by giving the gunship time for another railgun shot. What would keep ships from just flying up to gunships and obliterating them if the Ion effects were nerfed hard? Change is rare and slow in GSF, but the Devs do listen to the player community. You can persuade them to make changes, but you have to make really strong and well supported arguments. It also helps to have your numbers correct when asserting that one component or ship is tankier, has more DPS, etc. Numbers aren't everything though, you can convince the Devs that even with worse numbers a component is still too strong due to game mechanics. It's not hard to work out whats op when the top 2-3 damage and kills of the vast majority of games are double or triple everyone elses stats and its either a T1F or a T1GS. You can ask around to other experienced players, but as one of the people who is sometimes up there at the top of the board, I have to say that at least for ME, the ship tends not to matter. It's a product of how much skill matters in GSF combined with a very simple matchmaking system that routinely makes poorly balanced teams. My list of the ships that this doesn't happen on are the T2G and the powerdive bomber, but that's only because I'm not a fan of their playstyles, and almost never fly them. It's easiest on any gunship with Slug Railgun equipped, and the T2F. The T1F is probably 5th place. The scouts and T3F are maybe in the next bracket, and the bombers are at the bottom. Unless the other team has a whole bunch of people who don't know how to deal with mines and drones, in which case a bomber can easily jump up to the top of the list. As for the prevalence of the T1F and T1G in particular: For the T1F it's mostly because it's a fairly easy to understand ship and it's a default ship. So everyone has one, and it's usually the ship that people have the most experience and requisition in. You see it a lot because more people have it than have other ships, and more people know how to fly it decently. For the T1G, it was a starter ship for some people, but that was so long ago that the effect has probably faded. For the gunships anything with slug railgun CAN work, but if you look at the other two gunships, why take them? The T3G is much more likely to survive under pressure, IF the pilot is highly skilled at defensive flying. What percentage of games typically have high skill gunship pilots flying against a team with strike and scout pilots skilled enough to put them under heavy pressure? The T2G does have HLCs and Proton Torps, which are good components, but do you really want to use them instead of sitting there plinking away with Slug? Ion Railgun brings significant team utility, and at the moment the other gunships don't have much to offer in comparison, unless you get a match where the average skill on both sides is pretty high. Basically to motivate gunship diversity in games we'd need to see higher average skill so that the extra survivability of the T3G becomes attractive again. Everyone knows this which is why i didnt bother writing it out in the first place. T1F and Ion cannon are the ranked pvp equivilent of skank tank juggs. Well, I didn't know any of it. The Devs probably didn't either. That's why well thought out and detailed descriptions of the problems are so useful for the Devs. Even if you get numbers wrong, they still care about the FEEL of the game and the player experience. The better you can explain how and why things feel wrong, the more likely they are to make changes, and the more likely the changes are to improve how playing the game feels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oobidoo Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 you can write essays all u like, heres a match with a brand new, non talented T1F https://imgur.com/a/D1K9QD6 only upgrades were buying the base ion cannon and base retro thrusters. op as **** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerofvoid Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 (edited) you can write essays all u like, heres a match with a brand new, non talented T1F https://imgur.com/a/D1K9QD6 only upgrades were buying the base ion cannon and base retro thrusters. op as **** The numbers don't look unusual to me. That screenshot looks more like experience and skill being more important than upgrades or ship type. EDIT: Note that the other team in that screenshot has four players with zero kills, single-digit accuracy, and 6+ deaths. Edited March 25, 2021 by powerofvoid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeCKSEgai Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 in unranked pvp a new one has a chance to kill an experienced player while in gsf a new one the new one makes him kill repeatedly by the experienced player without having a chance to hit him. Here is where the gsf is very unbalanced, a new 98% chance of dying when in unranked it is less certainthe system for the ships is too complicated with the crews it is even more complicated, a new player does not know where to put the points, in addition with the additional ships it adds complexity. This is a poor analogy. In regs a new player can possibly kill an experienced one, but the reality is the experienced player is probably grouped and has at least one healer while the new player is probably solo q. In GSF a new player can kill a more experienced one, but the skill gap can be a lot higher. It's true that the odds are heavily stacked against the new player in gsf -- knowledge goes a lot farther than upgrades and the more experienced players have more of both. Part of the problem is the leveling system for GSF, but even that's a lot better than when I started. The real issue is the complexity. Just the other day some guy was saying that SM Styrak was still too hard. Yet any raider that's reliably capable for HM would find that fight pretty simple, straightforward and easy. When I first started GSF, I would try in vain to get just a single kill. But I learned over time and now its fairly common to see 5 or more on the enemy team come after me simultaneously. But there are also players who have played as long if not longer that never make it to that level. The biggest challenge GSF has faced since I've known it has been enticing players to stay long enough to learn to enjoy it. Even now I have plenty of games that were too one-sided to really be "fun". But for a new player unfamiliar with the mode to start and just get blown up repeatedly, there's not a lot there to get them to committing more of their time. If not for conquest changes GSF on satele would have nearly been non-existant. But going back to "too-complicated" --- Years ago it was common practice to provide a completed underlurker achievement to show proficiency in order to get in on a pick up group (pug) for ToS. Now its been dumbed-down to "make it more accessible" to the masses. Today in a TFB HM Last boss lockout, the original group struggled. One of the healers hadn't even been able to complete the story mode but was so cocky despite being the reason for at least 3 failures. Eventually he went afk for too long and got removed. When he finally got back he got upset and started berating his previous group in gen chat. Yet with only two people replaced out of the original 8, the final pull (the first with the new group) went so smooth it was clear where the problem was and it wasn't that we were a "fail group" but he as the individual player was a failure and blamed everyone else but himself. GSF is no different, and there are plenty of folks with inflated egos that love to take the credit for wins and pawn off losses to their teammates. And to be fair, they're not always wrong about that either. It's far more common for the mindset to be "its someone else's fault" as opposed to "I can learn to do better". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_carton Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 You can even gear alts with surplus GSF rewards if you know where the vendor on fleet is. Practically no one does, but it is there. I have long been reluctant to do GSF due to the realization (from the introductory mission) that the learning curve is steep and due to the absence of a simulator kind of sandbox training area, not to mention a thorough tutorial. "You are not contributing" is not very encouraging. I 'm now trying now to see if I can change all that. On a character I recently used the initial requisition to upgrade a Strike Fighter using some guide on the web; different guides suggested different things and I did my best to pick among them. I'm interested in what you say above. It will be helpful if you elaborate on how to do it. I will be able to get more upgrades and that should make my learning experience less frustrating, though I realize gear is no substitute for skill and experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramalina Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 (edited) I have long been reluctant to do GSF due to the realization (from the introductory mission) that the learning curve is steep and due to the absence of a simulator kind of sandbox training area, not to mention a thorough tutorial. "You are not contributing" is not very encouraging. I 'm now trying now to see if I can change all that. On a character I recently used the initial requisition to upgrade a Strike Fighter using some guide on the web; different guides suggested different things and I did my best to pick among them. I'm interested in what you say above. It will be helpful if you elaborate on how to do it. I will be able to get more upgrades and that should make my learning experience less frustrating, though I realize gear is no substitute for skill and experience. So what you're after is Fleet Commendations from the Weekly (300 comms) and daily (50 comms) GSF missions from the PvP terminals. On fleet in the Galactic Trade Market section there's a Fleet Commendations vendor who sells legacy bound: Minor ship requisition 1200 ship req 120 comms 10 req/com Minor fleet requisition 400 flt req 40 comms 10 req/com Fleet requisition 800 flt req 75 comms 10.67 req/com Major ship requisition 4000 ship req 350 comms 11.43 req/com Major fleet requisiton 6000 flt req 400 comms 15.62 req/com Since fleet requisition can be spent on Ship unlocks, Crew unlocks, and Component unlocks, the Major Fleet requisition is clearly the way to go since it's also about 50% more req per com than the others. You can also earn fleet comms in the class ship on rails "space" missions, or at least for some of them. I think the comms rewards for that got fairly heavily nerfed at some point though, so I'm not sure it's worth it unless you really love those missions. Edited March 26, 2021 by Ramalina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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