Fluffometer Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 In 2008 the Hero engine was chosen >> https://www.tentonhammer.com/articles/exclusive-swtor-heroengine-interview-instant-world-creation etc etc . Thanks for that link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eabevella Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 In 2008 the Hero engine was chosen >> https://www.tentonhammer.com/articles/exclusive-swtor-heroengine-interview-instant-world-creation etc etc . That's... old. I was busy playing ps3 games back then lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrixxieTriss Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 In 2008 the Hero engine was chosen >> https://www.tentonhammer.com/articles/exclusive-swtor-heroengine-interview-instant-world-creation etc etc . LoL, that’s so funny to read how they think it’s the bee’s knee’s of MMO engines and can do everything when it still can’t even handle 16 players together in a WZ without performance issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albeva Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 If there will ever be a serious investment in technology that powers the game, it will have to be accompanied by proper expansion. At minimum SoR size, but preferably closer WoW expansions scale. To cover the development costs that expansion would very likely be buy to play, like RotHC and SoR were upon release. If they did that - the game could, if handled and marketed well, garner a lot of attention, new and returning players. Personally I'd be happy to pay for an expansion if it meant quality content, new and cool things to do in game, more than 1.5 hours of solo fun we got in the last one. And if that expansion also improved game engine then ... shut up and take my money! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrixxieTriss Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 If there will ever be a serious investment in technology that powers the game, it will have to be accompanied by proper expansion. At minimum SoR size, but preferably closer WoW expansions scale. To cover the development costs that expansion would very likely be buy to play, like RotHC and SoR were upon release. If they did that - the game could, if handled and marketed well, garner a lot of attention, new and returning players. Personally I'd be happy to pay for an expansion if it meant quality content, new and cool things to do in game, more than 1.5 hours of solo fun we got in the last one. And if that expansion also improved game engine then ... shut up and take my money! I’d definitely pay for an expansion like that.... “throws $$$$$ at BioWare” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Bob- Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 If there will ever be a serious investment in technology that powers the game, it will have to be accompanied by proper expansion. At minimum SoR size, but preferably closer WoW expansions scale. To cover the development costs that expansion would very likely be buy to play, like RotHC and SoR were upon release. If they did that - the game could, if handled and marketed well, garner a lot of attention, new and returning players. Personally I'd be happy to pay for an expansion if it meant quality content, new and cool things to do in game, more than 1.5 hours of solo fun we got in the last one. And if that expansion also improved game engine then ... shut up and take my money! As long as they don't blow a huge portion of their budget on the voice actors. Put the money to good use and fine tune the xpac before releasing it, it could have potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spikanor Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 In 2008 the Hero engine was chosen >> https://www.tentonhammer.com/articles/exclusive-swtor-heroengine-interview-instant-world-creation etc etc . that means it was more worse then i was thinking about it that the problems more we are getting now more and more are getting worse and worse with the stupid bad choose there have make back then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertthebard Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 that means it was more worse then i was thinking about it that the problems more we are getting now more and more are getting worse and worse with the stupid bad choose there have make back then. I'm thinking that, if it was anywhere near as bad as you want to paint it, this game wouldn't have lasted this long... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spikanor Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 I'm thinking that, if it was anywhere near as bad as you want to paint it, this game wouldn't have lasted this long... the problems i was talking about is more that with each new patch there release and each new expension there release the problems in the game only become more and more since there cant fix it any more since the engine is to old. there are now a lot off Visual problems in the game and it wil only become more and more since the engine is more a alpha version. in the short term is it maybe good but in the long term its going to become only worse and worse. the question is still for us all how long do we going to accept that we keep playing this game will the bug's and visual problems is only become more with each new update/ expension and a lot off then get no fix that a lot off the bugs in the game still active will there need a fix and have been report for years and years and still notting has done with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redsonia Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 (edited) In 2008 the Hero engine was chosen >> https://www.tentonhammer.com/articles/exclusive-swtor-heroengine-interview-instant-world-creation etc etc . Sorry for my bad English but I'm from Germany ... ... let's try ... In 2008 and 2011, 32-bit programs were still the standard and In 2008 there was simply no suitable 3D game engine for an MMORPG that was available. EA already had the Frostbite> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frostbite_(game_engine) however, this was and is not suitable for an MMORPG. So EA decided at the time to license the Hero Engine and then reprogrammed it for its own purposes. The Hero is "Open Source". When SWTOR was released at the end of 2011, the status was Hero 2.0. A few years later, ZeniMax did something similar, using the Hero to develop basics for ESO, and so on --- It's actually amazing what you can still get out of a 32-bit program. An MMORPG (any online game) must also be playable when it is released (2011); therefore it has rather “medium” hardware requirements. SWTOR can only use approx. 2.7 GB of the main memory, so it is constantly swapped out. The graphics of the game (graphic style "uncanny valley") must be calculated, transferred and displayed. The following are helpful: fast hard disks (SSD), fast main memory, faster and more memory for the graphics card I myself play with 3840 x 2160 with active vertical sync and preset refresh / frame rate 60 on a 32 inch LED (60 Hz) and never had any problems. My only problem is sometimes the bad internet connection between Germany and Ireland (that's where the EU servers are). :) Who cares what the Hero can do >>> http://www.heroengine.com/support/heroengine-client-specifications http://hewiki.heroengine.com/wiki/Controlling_Frame_Rate_(FPS) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_game_engines .. Edited February 25, 2021 by Redsonia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xordevoreaux Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 the problems i was talking about is more that with each new patch there release and each new expension there release the problems in the game only become more and more since there cant fix it any more since the engine is to old. False. What the engine can or cannot do doesn't prevent Bioware from making fixes. As we saw with the from-scratch rewrite of the character preview window, changes can be made within the existing infrastructure, which undercuts your suggestion that the engine prevents fixes. It's about what Bioware is willing to fix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spikanor Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 False. What the engine can or cannot do doesn't prevent Bioware from making fixes. As we saw with the from-scratch rewrite of the character preview window, changes can be made within the existing infrastructure, which undercuts your suggestion that the engine prevents fixes. It's about what Bioware is willing to fix. and is something like a armor suit that has a cape or cloack that is doing wierd at some point what has been report on the bugg reports a lot all is that also something there can fix but not are doing it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merovejec Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 In short, no! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffometer Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 the problems i was talking about is more that with each new patch there release and each new expension there release the problems in the game only become more and more since there cant fix it any more since the engine is to old. there are now a lot off Visual problems in the game and it wil only become more and more since the engine is more a alpha version. in the short term is it maybe good but in the long term its going to become only worse and worse. the question is still for us all how long do we going to accept that we keep playing this game will the bug's and visual problems is only become more with each new update/ expension and a lot off then get no fix that a lot off the bugs in the game still active will there need a fix and have been report for years and years and still notting has done with it. While I certainly agree that the engine now has limitations, as you'd likely expect given its age, that doesn't stop a very large proportion of bugs from being fixed. The fact that many aren't are down to other issues, and I guess we can only speculate on what they might be. That's me being polite. Also, while the engine may have originated from an alpha version, and for reasons that are a whole other post in itself isn't necessarily such a big deal as people make it out to be, it's certainly progressed way beyond that now to a '(heavily) customised engine based on an early build of Hero Engine' To the topic at hand: years ago I'd have loved an engine upgrade, but these days I've settled in for appreciating that it's done pretty well all things considered. I mean, here we are playing it 10 years later - sure, it has limitations and frustrations but on the other hand: it's certainly given me more hours playtime than I'll ever admit in public Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonSire Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 (edited) To the topic at hand: years ago I'd have loved an engine upgrade, but these days I've settled in for appreciating that it's done pretty well all things considered. I mean, here we are playing it 10 years later - sure, it has limitations and frustrations They won't invest money in it. If anything they will start flooding the market with new $$ items to try and recoup all the money now lost to Anthem. They have had a lot of failures the last few years, and have broken promises to make things right time and time again until a project just gets gone. (Andromeda DLC, Anthem 2.0 etc) They will just keep using SWTOR to generate micro transactions while supporting Mass Effect development. With a little bit of new content thrown in once in awhile to keep people playing. Other than minor cosmetic changes to the engine don't expect anything close to major upgrade. Edited February 25, 2021 by DragonSire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffometer Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 They won't invest money in it. If anything they will start flooding the market with new $$ items to try and recoup all the money now lost to Anthem. They have had a lot of failures the last few years, and have broken promises to make things right time and time again until a project just gets gone. (Andromeda DLC, Anthem 2.0 etc) They will just keep using SWTOR to generate micro transactions while supporting Mass Effect development. With a little bit of new content thrown in once in awhile to keep people playing. Other than minor cosmetic changes to the engine don't expect anything close to major upgrade. Indeed - I was just saying that in all honesty I'm not terrible fussed about an engine upgrade even if there was a chance that it could happen, as unlikely as that is anyway. If I was the Evil Overlord in Charge of all Development (*) I'd spend the money on a round of bug fixes and content :-) * somewhat similar to my actual role - my actual job title is unfortunately far more banal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicTerror Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 (edited) They will just keep using SWTOR to generate micro transactions while supporting Mass Effect development. With a little bit of new content thrown in once in awhile to keep people playing. Other than minor cosmetic changes to the engine don't expect anything close to major upgrade. It's sad to see TOR this way, but I think you're right. The high value of the Star Wars trademark is both a blessing and a curse. It generates enough money that movies and games can be popped out with giant globs of equestrian excrement on top and profit will still be made. I really hope someone else comes out with a better MMO now that EA doesn't have a standing monopoly on Star Wars games. I still enjoy TOR, but I think it's time for the title to be managed by someone else that sees it as more than a minimal-effort cash cow there to fund other projects. Edited February 25, 2021 by MagicTerror Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savej Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 (edited) This game had lots of content for KOTFE and KOTET. People came back to play for them. Then they left, even with fairly steady chapter updates (for KOTFE). Of the new flashpoints, I don't know anyone that wants to play them more than once or twice. The new story content is great but it doesn't keep people playing regularly in an MMO. I know full well that it will never happen but this game's engine needs an overhaul. Updating the engine the right way allows for more customizations to characters, to homes, to ships. It fixes issues with combat. It opens the possibility of flying mounts (and jetpacks), of war zones with vehicles, of war zones and raids with more than 16 characters, of fleet and guild ship invasions, of more sandboxy planets and more interesting live events. And it can make the addition of new content easier/faster and less bug prone. As Khan tells us: "Add content or improve a system and you may gain some, but improve the engine and you gain a thousandfold." Often you have to step back before you can make the leaps forward. Millions of people out there were interested in playing a good Star Wars MMO ten years ago. Many times that would love to play a fun SW game. Edited February 25, 2021 by Savej Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeoNSoNicXJR Posted February 28, 2021 Author Share Posted February 28, 2021 OK, so let's say they decide to do this. What do they optimise it **for**? Multicore processors? Fast graphics cards? Acceptable performance on slow processors? Acceptable performance on slow graphics cards? Good performance when there are lots of characters in view just standing around? Good performance when there's only, say, 16 players and a couple of bosses all flailing away with flashy abilties? Multicore Processors and Fast Graphics Cards atleast. You can't optimise for *everything*, and MMORPGs have wide variations in what they do, what hardware they run on, etc. In a perfect world, it would be everything. Justify. Why do you think it would onlly take 6-12 months? because its the game engine that can take a long time i think if they put a team to it, they could do it in that amount of time atleast. at most, 2 years tops if the dedicate to it. like an expansion pack. You post on a public forum, you get feedback from the public. The reason why "some techy" (that is, someone who actually knows the subject matter) posts that sort of thing is that BioWare (more properly EA) is a business, and decisions must be based on, or at least consider, well, business realities. Those realities say that if they develop X, there is Y amount of net business benefit, and if they develop Z, there is W amount of net business benefit, and because Y is tiny and X is a huge chunk of work, while W is huge and Z is a tiny amount of work, we're liable to see Z, even if we would prefer X. In this case, it's worse still, since the business benefit is impossible to quantify, and the cost is huge. they make so much money off this game and put so much money into it its not even funny in an imdb it said its the most expensive mmorpg ever made if they just put more money into it again and start working on it to improve it so it doesnt lag on gaming systems (which is the point of this thread, as it does, so they need to improve the game engine) since the game still makes money as the game is still maintained so it should still be supported, thats my logic. On a more practical basis: would you want to see a total blockage of new content for whatever time it takes them to develop the newly-optimised or re-engined version of the game? And a whole raft of new bugs that don't show up in internal testing because they *cannot* test everything? No i would not want to see a total blockage of new content for them to develop optimizations for the game. they do a pretty good job of squashing bugs on new content in this game ive been playing this game since 2012 off and on the amount of bugs ive seen in the game i can count on my right hand alone they get a 9/10 overall on this game from me to be fair. 10/10 if im in serious mode because i see this games potential they just gotta put the time and money back into it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aeterno Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 (edited) Big overhauls of what's under the hood is probably a rather bad ROI. If it just runs 15fps better on fleet and Illum PvP is a thing 10 years after it was supposed to be, no-one outside existing players will much care. That news won't exactly grab anyone on IGN.com. If you're sinking funds into engine development and probably enhanced assets to go with it, at some stage you have to ask yourself, why not just make a TOR II instead and cash in on the starting hype all over again. I mean yes, EA/Activision seem to have caught the "remake" bug, but that's because they're cashing in on it all over again, retail price of a new AAA game for tinkering with old products. What are they going to do in this game, push out an engine update as a b2p expansion with AI enhanced textures? Hmmm, when I say it out loud... I'd actually pay for that =P Edited February 28, 2021 by aeterno Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
translucentwolf Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 (edited) No i would not want to see a total blockage of new content for them to develop optimizations for the game. they do a pretty good job of squashing bugs on new content in this game ive been playing this game since 2012 off and on the amount of bugs ive seen in the game i can count on my right hand alone they get a 9/10 overall on this game from me to be fair. 10/10 if im in serious mode because i see this games potential they just gotta put the time and money back into it again. The people who want to play, are. The people who won't, left. There is *0* reason for the devs to touch the engine, or do anything but continue to carry on at the current pace. Also, *you* think 6 months, with a 'team'. Nice estimate. How many MMOs have you been lead architect for? Edited March 1, 2021 by translucentwolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YodaUnrea Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 seeing how good video cards are nowadays and systems this game could use an engine optimization pass. they did this for PlanetSide 2. in this case its easy to get well over 60 - 144 - 200+ FPS in this game fully maxed out with a good video card RAM and CPU and monitor. Devs what do u think so this game doesnt hiccup / stutter when well over 60+ fps. dont get me wrong it looks really good on G-SYNC 240HZ monitor at 1440p dynamic super resolution from Nvidia. but if u guys can make a engine optimization pass like how daybreak did for planetside 2 u just gotta do your research and put effort into it i say u can do it in 6 months - a year. its well worth the investment if u put a team to it. will bring players back and revitalize the game and is a much needed upgrade to star wars the old republic as a whole. please no one shoot this down its much needed for this game, constructive feedback only please so devs seriously take it into consideration. that means no posts from some techy saying 'oh the resources are just too low' or 'its not worth it' or 'they would be better spent somewhere else this game is going on 10 years, resources would be better spent somewhere else, etc. PLEASE CONSTRUCTIVE FEEBACK ONLY PLEASE! I really want the devs to make this happen! I dont think so, they lack teh source for this job. and also human resources as well. nto to mention not just enginering replacement is needed but also a grafick modul as well with a decent rendering engine as well. EA dont care about this project, and nor even the Bioware CEO as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vallixas Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 (edited) What Swtor should have did from the beginning during the Tortanic years Edited March 2, 2021 by vallixas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkTergon Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 What Swtor should have did from the beginning during the Tortanic years Sadly, although jedi may be called space wizards, we have no true magic, that can destroy a universe only to rebuild it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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