MODDABLE "orange" quality gear ONLY for levels 1-49, very disapointed :-(

[Tommyjc]

You're making a real world analogy in a completely fake fantasy video game. Ya there are no slave girl tanks. There also aren't lightsabers, spaceships, etc.

 

The "completely different system" is rather easy to implement. All they do is make another paper doll tab. You draw stats from one and appearance from the other. Problem solved. Everyone can look how they want without looking the same as everyone else and dealing with mismatched armor during most of their leveling.

 

The orange mod system is in no way a viable replacement for an appearance tab unless EVERYTHING is modable. Frankly it wasn't well thought out. It can add something to the game but should not be tied to getting the appearance you want.

 

Seriously, all the dudes nerdraging about it, it's crazy, so easy to implement, eventually they'll cave in, just as WoW did.

[Angof]

I just checked on Torhead.com and the difference between level 23 purple armoring (obtainable by anyone for 8 commendations) and 25 purple armoring (the highest grade armoring from raid gear and only part that isn't removable) is ~12 END and ~11 primary stat along with some armor rating.

 

Over 7 pieces of gear this is noticeable, but if you can manage to mix/match gear to make it look good you can probably get away with sacrificing only ~30-40 END and primary stats. Not too big of a deal considering those are going to be 1100+ anyway at this time in game.

 

Hell even at all 7 pieces those stats it equate out to like 840 HP, 15.4 bonus damage, and 1-2% crit rating.

 

My point? Unless you're tanking don't even worry about it. It's a 1% increase in stats with everything else modded out at max level.

Edited January 5, 2012 by Angof

[Happo]

how does an appearance tab break immersion ?

 

let me ask you a reciprocal question :

 

how would you like to have it so that, instead of your character making a shooting/strike animation, it just stood there, and just the damage calculations were made and you had a text showing 'you hit the giant centipede for 100 damage' over your head ?

 

you wouldnt like that would you. because, it breaks IMMERSION. it looks LESS real than how it was before.

 

same with appearance tab. do you have an appearance tab in your life ? can you change the look of the jacked you are wearing, by clicking a user interface ? no. you can only modify the look by modifying the actual item.

 

there is a reason why we are going all this hassle of creating game mechanics, environments, 3d models - it is to give the as much immersion as possible.

 

the more shortcuts you take to fix things in a game the more you break immersion

 

A wardrobe breaks immersion?? News at 11.

[OlBuzzard]

A wardrobe breaks immersion?? News at 11.

 

for me personally: I'd love to see the smuggler with the cape like outfit.. the cool looking sunglasses some really sweet blasters, black pants with black leather boots that worked with the outfit. BUT... that is just me ! I know that others will unquestionably see it differently. Then again ... IF BW were to invest into making that aspect of the game happen... MAN !! Talk about IMMERSION ! Each player would be able to adust the looks of the toon (up to a point and within reason) to work best for them.

 

IMHO it might take some work and a little time to get there BUT just imagine the results !

 

edit: please note: probably having a toon dressed very skimpy with the armor of a maxed out 50 in heavy armor would probably be a tad over the top !

 

Edited January 5, 2012 by OlBuzzard

[Jairec]

Since modifying an item occurs in the user interface, usable anywhere, the only functional difference between mods and appearance tab is that mods are a clunky, user unfriendly hassle they've yet to work out properly, whereas appearance tabs are simple, elegant and offered in myriad MMOs.

 

If calling it a mod somehow preserves immersion, I don't see how junctioning the appearance tab at a modification table would be any less immersive.

Edited January 5, 2012 by Jairec

[Kal-Uthor]

The end game armor system is garbage. I don't know what they were thinking.

 

The variety of orange armor you could customize as you leveled up was decent. Not anything mind blowing but at least you had choices.

 

With end game armor you have no choice and the armor models are horrible.

[Tommyjc]

for me personally: I'd love to see the smuggler with the cape like outfit.. the cool looking sunglasses some really sweet blasters, black pants with black leather boots that worked with the outfit. BUT... that is just me ! I know that others will unquestionably see it differently. Then again ... IF BW were to invest into making that aspect of the game happen... MAN !! Talk about IMMERSION ! Each player would be able to adust the looks of the toon (up to a point) to work best for them.

 

IMHO it might take some work and a little time to get there BUT just imagine the results !

 

Ya they fail to have logic, Appearance tab is more immersion, not less.

[Pravis]

The set bonuses I have been seeing are limited to boots, gloves, pants/dress, headgear and chest. The bonuses are for 2 or 4 items of the 5 being worn and some of the 4 pieces bonuses were a little underwhelming to me.

 

If we consider that the orange gear can be specifically statted as opposed to the stock stats on the set gear beyond the actual set bonuses, there may be cases where the orange items could be preferrable if the set bonuses can be had in other item slots.

 

It also means that you can derive your two piece set bonus from as little as boots or gloves and a hidden piece of headware. If you can collect a full set, you could opt use an optimally purple-modded orange chest/robe or dress/pants and still get the maximum available set bonus. Swapping in such a visually dominant piece could go a long way toward breaking up any clone effect.

 

I am sure some will still find this hindering to their preffered level of expression and optimization but, I don't think the result will be nearly as bad as it is being made out to be. If you put in the effort collecting the gear and mods, you could have the exact set of optimal gearing and look dramatically different.

 

Personally, I would have put the set bonuses on belts instead of the chests so players pants and tops could remain totally the territory of orange gear but, you can avoid the objectional shoulderpads, potentially recolor the whole set to a chest color of your choosing (in the future?) and hide a garrish helmet while still getting full 4 piece set bonuses.

 

This quote is the best in this thread, and I'm not surprised I had to go 10 pages from the last post to see it since people crying about the loot drops always ignore sensible responses which shoot down their argument.

 

TLDR Orange gear allows you options so you can even compensate for set bonuses for Ops epics. In addition, a 1.0% difference to health/dps/heals/def due to you not wanting to go do Ops at all WILL NOT gimp you in the slightest compared to those who do. You're being silly and irrational if you think otherwise.

 

/end thread

[Tommyjc]

Since modifying an item occurs in the user interface, usable anywhere, the only functional difference between mods and appearance tab is that mods areand clunky, useless hassle they've yet to work out whereas appearance tabs are simple, elegant and offered in myriad MMOs.

 

If calling it a mod somehow preserves immersion, I don't see how functioning the appearance tab at a modification system would be any less immersive.

 

Seriously.

[Tommyjc]

The end game armor system is garbage. I don't know what they were thinking.

 

The variety of orange armor you could customize as you leveled up was decent. Not anything mind blowing but at least you had choices.

 

With end game armor you have no choice and the armor models are horrible.

 

I have to agree, I didn't want the appearance tab this bad til I saw the stupid looking trooper set.

[BadgeredMushroom]

In my opinion BioWare could/should have gone the route of not having any green-blue-purple gear/weapons at all.

 

If every item had been fully moddable Orange from the start, everyone could mix and match to their heart's content from beginning to end and nobody would be forced to look like a clone at endgame. Nor would there be a need for an appearance tab either. Everyone could look the way they want to look and retain that appearance throughout the game.

 

Synthweavers, Armormechs and Armstechs would then have a gigantic array of sets and weapons they could craft and everyone could find a set (or separate pieces from different sets) and weapons they would love. Thousands of armor pieces and a ton of weapon designs, and none would go to waste as everyone could keep using/upgrading/changing them for themselves and their companions according to their personal preference.

 

Then the green-blue-purple would only apply to the mods as these basically dictate the effectiveness of the item; allowing Cybertechs, Artificers, Armstechs to work their magic.

 

Heck, then you could even have Legendary mods dropping in Operations that would give bonuses when applied. And no doubt something similar could be done for PvP mods. So instead of the ages-old 'gear progression', you would have 'mod progression' (although gear and weapons could still drop in FPs&OPs; adding to the diversity even more).

 

At least that's my take on the matter. Now they hashed 2 different systems together when they should have opted for an either-or approach. The current setup just causes confusion and dissension among the playerbase.

 

My vote would have gone to all items being fully customizable with the mods dictating the effectiveness regarding the quality-level of the mods.

 

This is exactly what myself and many others proposed during beta to no avail. It seems to me that BioWare is dead set on killing their own game by releasing it in a terribly buggy state and limiting player options wherever possible.

[Knyghtprowler]

I dress for myself, I don't dress for others.

 

This one speaks lies...

[Eliezer]

that game will not happen as long as people - even those who can actually think outside the wow/everquest fixation, like you - have resigned themselves to mmo = wow/eq gear progression.

 

 

Ah, I see where the disconnect is... This is a Themepark MMO, and that is pretty much the way they run. I would have loved to see SWTOR be more of a sandbox style... but I'm rolling with what we have here.

 

I am being realistic. They are not going to redesign SWTOR from the ground up at this stage. It is what it is, which is a Themepark MMO very much in the mold set by Blizzard and its predecessors.

 

Not since early EverQuest 2 have I seen an MMO attempt to make Crafting a full and complete gameplay experience... and while I loved what they tried to do there, it ultimately failed as an experiment as was rolled back.

 

Crafting is a side-track item in this and most MMOs. I would have loved to see something more innovative, but this is what we got.

[OlBuzzard]

In my opinion BioWare could/should have gone the route of not having any green-blue-purple gear/weapons at all.

 

If every item had been fully moddable Orange from the start, everyone could mix and match to their heart's content from beginning to end and nobody would be forced to look like a clone at endgame. Nor would there be a need for an appearance tab either. Everyone could look the way they want to look and retain that appearance throughout the game.

 

Synthweavers, Armormechs and Armstechs would then have a gigantic array of sets and weapons they could craft and everyone could find a set (or separate pieces from different sets) and weapons they would love. Thousands of armor pieces and a ton of weapon designs, and none would go to waste as everyone could keep using/upgrading/changing them for themselves and their companions according to their personal preference.

 

Then the green-blue-purple would only apply to the mods as these basically dictate the effectiveness of the item; allowing Cybertechs, Artificers, Armstechs to work their magic.

 

Heck, then you could even have Legendary mods dropping in Operations that would give bonuses when applied. And no doubt something similar could be done for PvP mods. So instead of the ages-old 'gear progression', you would have 'mod progression' (although gear and weapons could still drop in FPs&OPs; adding to the diversity even more).

 

At least that's my take on the matter. Now they hashed 2 different systems together when they should have opted for an either-or approach. The current setup just causes confusion and dissension among the playerbase.

 

My vote would have gone to all items being fully customizable with the mods dictating the effectiveness regarding the quality-level of the mods.

 

 

This is exactly what myself and many others proposed during beta to no avail. It seems to me that BioWare is dead set on killing their own game by releasing it in a terribly buggy state and limiting player options wherever possible.

 

These two are right on target ! This would bring the best of "modding" to player specs needed as well as "style" to the individuals taste. It would unquestionalbly be a huge positive step for what is otherwise an excellent game.

[Enako]

Another terrible point by you, the "jacked" or Jacket, I have I like, so I wouldn't need a tab, because I picked it because of how it looked. Nor do I have an appearance tab in life, because crazy enough, real clothes dont have stats on them, I dont throw on a shirt and get +5 strength. Appearance tabs add to immersion, as a person with your money and prowess would have whatever options he'd like open to him, he wouldn't wear a bucket on his head, and a dress. Just no, try again.

 

not getting someone's point does not make it 'terrible'. it means you just have not gotten the point.

 

if a person with the toon's money and prowess would use that money and prowess to change the appearance of its gear, s/he would need to do it through in-game mechanics as much as possible so that immersion would not be broken.

 

proposing otherwise is stupid - this entire 'game' thing is comprised of software that is trying to create a virtual world into being.

 

and yet you are proposing to take appearance out of that world's created dynamics, and make it some software interface choice.

 

then there is no difference in making gear stats editable too. in the end, they are just numbers saved in the server's ram. you dont need them to be integrated into game mechanics to have immersion after all, right ..........

[Tommyjc]

not getting someone's point does not make it 'terrible'. it means you just have not gotten the point.

 

if a person with the toon's money and prowess would use that money and prowess to change the appearance of its gear, s/he would need to do it through in-game mechanics as much as possible so that immersion would not be broken.

 

proposing otherwise is stupid - this entire 'game' thing is comprised of software that is trying to create a virtual world into being.

 

and yet you are proposing to take appearance out of that world's created dynamics, and make it some software interface choice.

 

then there is no difference in making gear stats editable too. in the end, they are just numbers saved in the server's ram. you dont need them to be integrated into game mechanics to have immersion after all, right ..........

 

again bad point, he wouldn't have to do it through any predestined pattern, if you wanna talk immersion. Looting your armor off of a giant rancor, or beast of the like is dumb enough in it's own. you flip flop on your immersion and really everything you say. A-tab = more immersion. Mod sys = glorified enchantment / gem system. Get over it, When if you ever raid, get back to me on how you feel.

[MisterWratten]

These two are right on target ! This would bring the best of "modding" to player specs needed as well as "style" to the individuals taste. It would unquestionalbly be a huge positive step for what is otherwise an excellent game.

 

Such a great idea. This is what I was expecting when I first heard about the modding.

[Fnords]

Hmm, I also dont really understand what the OP is trying to say.

 

I found some nice orange items and I upgrade them whenever I can with crafted mods, etc. Does this not work at lvl 50 anymore? Are there no mods, enhancements etc. for lvl 50 players?

 

This would make the whole crafting system obsolent, so I doubt this is the case.

 

ATM that is the case

[OlBuzzard]

Another thought on these two ideas:

 

In my opinion BioWare could/should have gone the route of not having any green-blue-purple gear/weapons at all.

 

If every item had been fully moddable Orange from the start, everyone could mix and match to their heart's content from beginning to end and nobody would be forced to look like a clone at endgame. Nor would there be a need for an appearance tab either. Everyone could look the way they want to look and retain that appearance throughout the game.

 

Synthweavers, Armormechs and Armstechs would then have a gigantic array of sets and weapons they could craft and everyone could find a set (or separate pieces from different sets) and weapons they would love. Thousands of armor pieces and a ton of weapon designs, and none would go to waste as everyone could keep using/upgrading/changing them for themselves and their companions according to their personal preference.

 

Then the green-blue-purple would only apply to the mods as these basically dictate the effectiveness of the item; allowing Cybertechs, Artificers, Armstechs to work their magic.

 

Heck, then you could even have Legendary mods dropping in Operations that would give bonuses when applied. And no doubt something similar could be done for PvP mods. So instead of the ages-old 'gear progression', you would have 'mod progression' (although gear and weapons could still drop in FPs&OPs; adding to the diversity even more).

 

At least that's my take on the matter. Now they hashed 2 different systems together when they should have opted for an either-or approach. The current setup just causes confusion and dissension among the playerbase.

 

My vote would have gone to all items being fully customizable with the mods dictating the effectiveness regarding the quality-level of the mods.

 

 

This is exactly what myself and many others proposed during beta to no avail. It seems to me that BioWare is dead set on killing their own game by releasing it in a terribly buggy state and limiting player options wherever possible.

 

IF ... it were necessary to keep the system as it is for all gear including Orange ... perhaps another "color": Moddable could be used: fewer drops (more expensive) and yet could be used just as proposed. It might be that they are not even available until level ... what ... 40 maybe?

 

IN short this would add more content (tyring to score the good stuff ) as well as not destroying what is already there ?

 

Just a thought !

Edited January 5, 2012 by OlBuzzard

[Enako]

Seriously, all the dudes nerdraging about it, it's crazy, so easy to implement, eventually they'll cave in, just as WoW did.

 

who caved in in wow ?

 

who ?

 

the 5% hardcore raiders among the playerbase ? their main poison was hardcore raid progression after all. thats what they were there fore.

 

the rest 95% ? incrementally lost to other games so that pandas were put into the game in the end.

 

noone 'caves in' in games. they lose enjoyment once, twice, and on thrice they are off to another game.

 

Ah, I see where the disconnect is... This is a Themepark MMO, and that is pretty much the way they run. I would have loved to see SWTOR be more of a sandbox style... but I'm rolling with what we have here.

 

I am being realistic. They are not going to redesign SWTOR from the ground up at this stage. It is what it is, which is a Themepark MMO very much in the mold set by Blizzard and its predecessors.

 

Not since early EverQuest 2 have I seen an MMO attempt to make Crafting a full and complete gameplay experience... and while I loved what they tried to do there, it ultimately failed as an experiment as was rolled back.

 

Crafting is a side-track item in this and most MMOs. I would have loved to see something more innovative, but this is what we got.

 

first, you need to get yourself free of wow/eq viewport. if these games were doing SO well, and they were SO definitive of what a mmo is, neither would need to jump through hoops to keep subscribers. and yet, wow is not only doing that but also losing subscribers at an alarming rate of 600,000 per quarter.

 

after all, the game design they have made was entirely bent on satisfying 5% of their playerbase. they wisened up and relaxed in wotlk, and had their peak at that point, but then they made a mistake and went hardcore again - leading to 600 k subsciber loss. the sad attempt in cozying up casual players to the game by just making 'pandas' "in", cost them even their hardcore subscribers.

 

............

 

dont say 'no mmo had attempted to make crafting a full and complete gameplay experience' -> say no aaa title had attempted to do that. noone could do that while the fad of wow/eq was still fresh. everyone had to cash in on that train.

 

and everyone did. and then it became evident that all of these games were ending up catering to a very small demographic in gamer population - hardcore progressives. and they ended up competing for each other's crowd, with the hardcore population swinging here and there with each new expansion/game.

 

but they eventually noticed that and started to make changes. even wow made drastic changes - first they started heavily moderating their forums to remove the hardcore elitism and hardliner atmosphere that persisted from day 1 - go there now, and even in pvp forum you will find that it is quite a 'casual' atmosphere. i remember how it was 2 years ago - forums would directly turn off any casual gamer just by glancing in them. then came accessibility of endgame content, then came simplification of game (bye bye talent trees) and then came pandas.

 

these are drastic stuff that something that 'fits in the mmo concept' well would not need to do to keep subscribers happy.

 

if they are doing these, it means something is not right with the current system.

 

...................

 

its not a question of 'if'. its a question of 'when'. sooner or later one aaa game will hit the jackpot with a new system/format, and it will be the definitive game for 4-5 years.

 

 

and if we go back to topic, my vote is as the below one too :

 

My vote would have gone to all items being fully customizable with the mods dictating the effectiveness regarding the quality-level of the mods.

[Deslan]

ATM that is the case

 

Not quite. You can complete any content in sub-par gear. I bet with a bit of training, you could do anything with green items. So you can gimp yourself and hold on to your orange items if you want, but if you want to max your stats you need to embrace the communistic look.

[Tommyjc]

who caved in in wow ?

 

who ?

 

the 5% hardcore raiders among the playerbase ? their main poison was hardcore raid progression after all. thats what they were there fore.

 

the rest 95% ? incrementally lost to other games so that pandas were put into the game in the end.

 

noone 'caves in' in games. they lose enjoyment once, twice, and on thrice they are off to another game.

 

 

 

first, you need to get yourself free of wow/eq viewport. if these games were doing SO well, and they were SO definitive of what a mmo is, neither would need to jump through hoops to keep subscribers. and yet, wow is not only doing that but also losing subscribers at an alarming rate of 600,000 per quarter.

 

after all, the game design they have made was entirely bent on satisfying 5% of their playerbase. they wisened up and relaxed in wotlk, and had their peak at that point, but then they made a mistake and went hardcore again - leading to 600 k subsciber loss. the sad attempt in cozying up casual players to the game by just making 'pandas' "in", cost them even their hardcore subscribers.

 

............

 

dont say 'no mmo had attempted to make crafting a full and complete gameplay experience' -> say no aaa title had attempted to do that. noone could do that while the fad of wow/eq was still fresh. everyone had to cash in on that train.

 

and everyone did. and then it became evident that all of these games were ending up catering to a very small demographic in gamer population - hardcore progressives. and they ended up competing for each other's crowd, with the hardcore population swinging here and there with each new expansion/game.

 

but they eventually noticed that and started to make changes. even wow made drastic changes - first they started heavily moderating their forums to remove the hardcore elitism and hardliner atmosphere that persisted from day 1 - go there now, and even in pvp forum you will find that it is quite a 'casual' atmosphere. i remember how it was 2 years ago - forums would directly turn off any casual gamer just by glancing in them. then came accessibility of endgame content, then came simplification of game (bye bye talent trees) and then came pandas.

 

these are drastic stuff that something that 'fits in the mmo concept' well would not need to do to keep subscribers happy.

 

if they are doing these, it means something is not right with the current system.

 

...................

 

its not a question of 'if'. its a question of 'when'. sooner or later one aaa game will hit the jackpot with a new system/format, and it will be the definitive game for 4-5 years.

 

 

and if we go back to topic, my vote is as the below one too :

 

Tldr: who'd want to with all the errors. WoW caved in and implemented what is basically an appearance tab, way to wall of text for nothing.

[Tommyjc]

Not quite. You can complete any content in sub-par gear. I bet with a bit of training, you could do anything with green items. So you can gimp yourself and hold on to your orange items if you want, but if you want to max your stats you need to embrace the communistic look.

 

Honestly I'd be ok with it if the gear didn't look so badddd, my dude looks so dumb right meow.

[Daellia]

Why wouldnt you want to show off gear that you earned? instead of looking like someone levelling

 

Go try on the SI tier and reflect again on this question.

[Arakinis]

wow, I didn't even realize that, f*&^ man I've been saving all the cool looking orange pieces that I've gotten throughout my leveling experience just so I could slot end game raid/pvp mods into em and not look like a freaking clone. This needs to be looked at by BW since if they keep it like this the whole point of mods post 50 is a mute one. If they are that worried about people farming the first few bosses then they should move those pieces to the end ones....mmm problem solving