New squelch system working as intended?

[SwtorThrill]

Has your friend tried contacting CS to see why? If they message support@swtor.comn, they'll get a faster reply, and might be able to appeal it, find out why it happened, and get it investigated (if possible)

 

My friend does not care enough to bother, never used forums either. I will force them to if it helps this situation though. I do care because I enjoy this game still. A overly sensitive silence feature sounds like potential trouble and that's why I am here to discuss this.

[Bxvx]

I feel dumb for asking but what does squelch mean? Is this like a report spam thing and it mutes the person after so many hits?

[SwtorThrill]

You have a link for that?

 

How about a quote? Most recent one...

 

So, if you see a credit seller’s message – right click, report it! That will initiate the new processes we put in place. Oh, they’ll try to circumvent, they’ll change their message, they’ll spam more, they’ll add more accounts, more bots, but keep reporting them. They won’t like it.

 

Full context and link is provided in this thread in a previous post of mine. I can probably search other older threads about credit spammers stating the same thing. I have yet to find any quote from the devs stating to also use it for guild, trade, troll spammers. One person already argued that they don't have to, but I feel that in this case they do because it leads to abuse otherwise. I believe ignore & report harassment is used for those situations.

[SwtorThrill]

I feel dumb for asking but what does squelch mean? Is this like a report spam thing and it mutes the person after so many hits?

 

Pretty much, you cannot use any means of communication what so ever. No channels, no say, no whispers, none of it. I do not know how long it last.

[DuchessKristania]

Regarding the comments about chat breaking, what's happening when it breaks? I only ask because I was playing with a couple of friends the other night and two of us weren't seeing gen chat comments, but the other person was. Is this happening to others as well?

 

Also, never been squelched, but outside of a few rl friends I mostly play solo and rarely post in gen chat. On occasion I'll answer a question, or ask one, but aside from that I'm mostly quiet.

[ceryxp]

How about a quote? Most recent one...

 

So, if you see a credit seller’s message – right click, report it! That will initiate the new processes we put in place. Oh, they’ll try to circumvent, they’ll change their message, they’ll spam more, they’ll add more accounts, more bots, but keep reporting them. They won’t like it.

 

Full context and link is provided in this thread in a previous post of mine. I can probably search other older threads about credit spammers stating the same thing. I have yet to find any quote from the devs stating to also use it for guild, trade, troll spammers. One person already argued that they don't have to, but I feel that in this case they do because it leads to abuse otherwise. I believe ignore & report harassment is used for those situations.

 

Yeah, um, you claimed that "we were only directed to use report spam feature on third party advertisers" and that is not what that quote says. All Keith is saying there is a reminder to us to continue to report credit spammers. Keith says nothing else about the report spam feature and how or when to use it. Unless you can produce a quote from a BW employee directing us to only use the spam report feature on third party advertisers then I, and I am certain everyone else, am going to assume that this is another case of someone deciding to inject their own meaning and that you fabricated that claim to suit your agenda.

[DarkTergon]

Regarding the comments about chat breaking, what's happening when it breaks? I only ask because I was playing with a couple of friends the other night and two of us weren't seeing gen chat comments, but the other person was. Is this happening to others as well?

 

 

Haven't really noticed much myself, although these days I don't really notice chat, it's just rolls past, with the odd bit catching my attention if it's interesting.

[Bxvx]

Regarding the comments about chat breaking, what's happening when it breaks? I only ask because I was playing with a couple of friends the other night and two of us weren't seeing gen chat comments, but the other person was. Is this happening to others as well?

 

Also, never been squelched, but outside of a few rl friends I mostly play solo and rarely post in gen chat. On occasion I'll answer a question, or ask one, but aside from that I'm mostly quiet.

 

Got ya I almost feel like this has happened to me randomly before but I was still able to talk in guild, I just couldn't use or see general. I barely talk in general usually just to answer questions newer folks ask. It was during the casino, I dunno maybe it was a bug or something. Thanks for the info!

[DuchessKristania]

Got ya I almost feel like this has happened to me randomly before but I was still able to talk in guild, I just couldn't use or see general. I barely talk in general usually just to answer questions newer folks ask. It was during the casino, I dunno maybe it was a bug or something. Thanks for the info!

 

We probably should have checked to see if we could say something in gen chat, but since the three of us were on a voice chat we weren't using the in-game chat feature. It did seem to randomly just stop though. Since we weren't watching it super closely I'm not sure how long it was like that before we noticed.

[Stradlin]

Yes, it is.

That PVP players have weaponized it against each other is their problem.

 

They need to change their behavior, which of course, they won't. They can't.

It's too innate for them to attack each other with all manner of griefing, both in and out of PvP.

 

 

No, it is not working as intended. As you yourself seem to suggest. People can abuse and weaponize it for trolling/griefing.

 

On my server, it is mostly feuding guilds and such busy squelching one another rather than pvp folks.

Edited September 2, 2020 by Stradlin

[ceryxp]

No, it is not working as intended. As you yourself seem to suggest. People can abuse and weaponize it for trolling/griefing.

 

On my server, it is mostly feuding guilds and such busy squelching one another rather than pvp folks.

 

"Not working as intended" and "being used in an unintended manner" are not the same thing. The clothes iron was working as intended when the person that necessitated the "do not use on clothes while wearing them" warning did the deed that prompted the addition of said warning. If there is trolling and griefing going on then BW needs to take some action. Unfortunately, as we have seen, BW does very little to curtail trolling and griefing.

[Xo-Lara]

No, it is not working as intended. As you yourself seem to suggest. People can abuse and weaponize it for trolling/griefing.

 

On my server, it is mostly feuding guilds and such busy squelching one another rather than pvp folks.

 

Given that the PvP part of the community has had a long-standing problem with some players not knowing when to stop fighting with other players and how to behave like adults, this seems like a problem that, at most, requires PvP instance specific mechanics. I feel like anywhere else, people should be able to shut down terms of service breaking gen chat takeovers.

 

I personally would not want to see this feature rolled back in places where there are far fewer PvPers to abuse it. Gen Chat has been so much more reasonable since this feature changed. It makes the game easier to live with.

[MadDutchman]

No, I have to disagree a bit here. The devs have not explicitly said what the purpose is for other than to combat third party advertising. Not once have I read them saying, please feel free to use it against other players who spam guild recruitments, referral requests, trade requests, trolls, or people you generally do not agree with. That is a assumption people made because it's easy for them to do so with the right influence/clout. As I mentioned before it's this way because it gains immediate results vs the alternatives in place for situations like these.

 

From the last time squelch abuse came up

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=8868572#edit8868572

 

"Please continue to report Credit Sellers and any other spammers you encounter"

 

Pretty sure guild ad spam and referral spam quite easily fall in this category. Perhaps being a ******* doesn't fall in that category, however it seems like a pretty legimate use of the report system in general.

Edited September 3, 2020 by MadDutchman

[Jdast]

This thread is following exactly the same trajectory as every other similar thread on this subject. For those who are upset with the current system, it invariably goes like this:

 

1) Well, I have this friend who told me they were really polite in chat and suddenly got squelched. Let me paraphrase what they said as opposed to being specific.

 

2) I'm not going to provide suggestions for any limits on pasting referral links, guild invites, trades, etc. in general chat. Some (e.g. Dark Tergon) have proposed what they think are reasonable limits only to be met with little response.

 

Because, really, wouldn't it be neato if 100 / 177 people on fleet were putting referral links in gen chat once / minute?

 

3) Well, rival guilds are using it against each other, but no, I can't provide any specifics about what was said or what precipitated the escalation.

 

Therefore, I stand by my earlier, naturally brilliant, claim:

 

I do not discount the possibility (or even likelihood) that some abuse is going on, but if y'all who don't like the current system hope to affect positive change, I highly doubt this thread is going to do it when it is speaking in such vague generalities. Heck, in this forum alone people can't even agree on what constitutes offending behavior.

 

<<martini time>>

 

Dasty

Edited September 3, 2020 by Jdast

[SwtorThrill]

This thread is following exactly the same trajectory every similar thread on this subject has gone. For those who are upset with the current system, it invariably goes like this:

 

1) Well, I have this friend who told me they were really polite in chat and suddenly got squelched. Let me paraphrase what they said as opposed to being specific.

 

2) I'm not going to provide any suggestions on any limits for pasting referral links, guild invites, trades, etc. in general chat. Some (e.g. Dark Tergon) have proposed what they think are reasonable limits only to be met with little response.

 

Because, really, wouldn't it be neato if 100 / 177 people on fleet were putting referral links in gen chat once / minute?

 

3) Well, rival guilds are using it against each other, but no, I can't provide any specifics about what was said or what precipitated the escalation.

 

Therefore, I stand by my earlier, naturally brilliant, claim:

 

I do not discount the possibility (or even likelihood) that some abuse is going on, but if y'all who don't like the current system hope to affect positive change, I highly doubt this thread is going to do it when it is speaking in such vague generalities. Heck, in this forum alone people can't even agree on what constitutes offending behavior.

 

<<martini time>>

 

Dasty

 

Stop being a skeptic, my paraphrasing is to avoid a TLDR situation. Nothing was cleaned up and honestly very little changed. In this case something is off with the new system or someone abused it. If it makes it easier to swallow then assume it was me then.

 

We agree on everything you said before the first comma in your last paragraph. It's why I made this thread. I wanted to see If people are experiencing abuse or randomly squelched from the new system.

 

My only suggestion and want is a guideline from the devs what is and is not an appropriate use of report spam. You think this would be a simple concept, but some people here and in game have a very broad concept of what is considered spam. For example, you seen general chat before I bet, someone who is constantly talking about their political views...is that spam? As annoying as I consider it, I do not feel like the squelch system should be used here but rather the ignore function. But why ignore someone personally when you can make the entire game ignore them instead, right? That's the options for some who have the influence.

[DarkTergon]

/snip.

 

 

ok, the question you asked is "New squelch system working as intended?"

 

The answer is yes, it is. We've little or no credit sellers (or did the last few times I was on the starter worlds), same with the ref link spam, and guild messages.

So yes, it is working as intended.

 

What has popped up though, is it being abused?

That is a separate question. And the only people who can answer a definite yes or no, are BW.

Do they care enough to check it out, look in to the reports, have some functionality that allows them to check in to it.

A lot of threads lately have become cylindrical , and just keep repeating. Maybe if everyone who feels it was wrongly done, took screen shots, or even just mailed the community managers with whatever evidence they have (sending it to them is not a ToS violation, so there's no need to worry about that), they can look in to it, and maybe find a way of, a) proving it is happening, and b) stopping it, and serial abusers.

[TrixxieTriss]

I'm certainly not discounting that possibility, but I still am curious about what is actually being said before they got squelched.

 

In the past few weeks, these posts have cropped up - usually about referral links. Curiously, not one of those complainers actually answered the (repeatedly asked) question: How often were you posting the link?

 

All I'm saying is these threads would get a lot more traction and perhaps action if someone posted a legit screenshot (with names removed, of course) about someone saying something innocuous in gen chat and then showing they've been squelched. At a minimum, they should offer greater detail.

 

Otherwise, I'm left with the impression that this is really just a bunch of smack talk between guilds or upset PvPers. Frankly, I would squelch that too.

 

Dasty

 

Example : a good player helping their teams with tactics is squelched to stop them. I saw this happen to someone who was not smack talking anyone.

[TrixxieTriss]

Yes, it is.

That PVP players have weaponized it against each other is their problem.

 

They need to change their behavior, which of course, they won't. They can't.

It's too innate for them to attack each other with all manner of griefing, both in and out of PvP.

 

I notice how you always attack the pvp community and you don’t play pvp. How would you even know what goes on. You are very toxic towards the pvp community with your comments.

 

What about the other cases of innocent individuals being squelched that have nothing to do with pvp. Ie guilds squelching out members of rival guilds. Is that’s working as intended?

[TrixxieTriss]

Haven't really noticed much myself, although these days I don't really notice chat, it's just rolls past, with the odd bit catching my attention if it's interesting.

 

I created a new alt the other day and didn’t see one credit seller spam on Korriban for the first time in years. But I did see a big increase in guild joining spam.

 

Chat was also more subdued than usual on Korriban.

[Jdast]

Example : a good player helping their teams with tactics is squelched to stop them. I saw this happen to someone who was not smack talking anyone.

 

But here's the rub: People define good players differently.

 

Were they being so annoying that people wanted them to SHADDUP?

 

I hesitate to bring in real life examples, b/c they often don't translate, but here I go...

 

Now that I'm comfortably middle-age, I have had the opportunity to do some adjunct teaching in my said profession. The most annoying person is the one who constantly raises their hand to enlighten the class about how brilliant they are. Oh how I wish I could stand at the podium and squelch them.

 

Point being: The person you are referencing may well have had the best intentions, but they also may have been so annoying that people thought best to squelch them for their own sanity.

 

Further point being: The road to the dark side can sometimes be paved with the best of intentions. I know that in PvP matches I have put people on ignore b/c they kept barking orders, thinking they were somehow the all-knowing guru / captain of the match.

 

If they are super annoying, I would go further and feel that is a perfectly legitimate use of squelch.

 

Dasty

Edited September 3, 2020 by Jdast

[TrixxieTriss]

But here's the rub: People define good players differently.

 

Were they being so annoying that people wanted them to SHADDUP?

 

I hesitate to bring in real life examples, b/c they often don't translate, but here I go...

 

Now that I'm comfortably middle-age, I have had the opportunity to do some adjunct teaching in my said profession. The most annoying person is the one who constantly raises their hand to enlighten the class about how brilliant they are. Oh how I wish I could stand at the podium and squelch them.

 

Point being: The person you are referencing may well have had the best intentions, but they also may have been so annoying that people thought best to squelch them for their own sanity.

 

Further point being: The road to the dark side can sometimes be paved with the best of intentions. I know that in PvP matches I have put people on ignore b/c they kept barking orders, thinking they were somehow the all-knowing guru / captain of the match.

 

If they are super annoying, I would go further and feel that is a perfectly legitimate use of squelch.

 

Dasty

 

I know you weren’t there, so you’ll have to trust me when I say the person wasn’t annoying anyone except the people they were beating.

 

You know I’m a pvper with some veteran experience. But even I was learning from the tactics this person was suggesting. We were in a low pop environment and mostly 4v4. Against 3-4 man premades each game. Before this person turned up on our teams, the premade was owning us. Then we started winning with the tactics they suggested and we listened intently to their advice.

 

This obviously pissed off the Premade’s because they couldn’t troll smash solo pugs. This player was also pretty good by anyone’s standards and did help carry us.

We got one match with one of the guys from the premade’s guild on our team and the next thing, the person is squelched (they mailed each one of us they’d been playing with to tell us they’d been squelched).

 

If they were going to squelch anyone, they probably should have squelched me because I was the only one that used chat to talk to the other team (not smack talk either).

[ceryxp]

Stop being a skeptic

Absolutely not.

My only suggestion and want is a guideline from the devs what is and is not an appropriate use of report spam. You think this would be a simple concept, but some people here and in game have a very broad concept of what is considered spam.

The only guidance we are likely to receive are the Terms of Service and the Rules of Conduct. Documents, it appears, no one reads. Funnily enough, there is also a line about misusing the report features, which appears on both documents.

Improperly use in-game support or complaint buttons or make false reports to Service staff members, including the SWTOR CS.

 

 

 

I notice how you always attack the pvp community and you don’t play pvp. How would you even know what goes on. You are very toxic towards the pvp community with your comments.

 

What about the other cases of innocent individuals being squelched that have nothing to do with pvp. Ie guilds squelching out members of rival guilds. Is that’s working as intended?

It is a little ridiculous of you to say that when you yourself have posted to these forums, as have many other people, about the toxicity in PVP. And that toxicity has often spilt over into general chat. I have no use for PVP but I have participated in it at various times for various reasons, and I have personally witnessed the toxicity of PVP. I have witnessed it in this game and I have witnessed it in other games. Toxicity seems to be one of the defining features of PVP.

 

Your instance of guilds weaponizing the report feature against each other would appear to fall under the section of the ToS and RoC that I quoted above. As I said in a prior comment, "not working as intended" is not the same thing as "not being used as intended." If people are using the report functions not as intended that does not mean they are not working as intended it means the functions are being abused and not used as intended. BW should do something about that, but they need reports with evidence not anecdotal or vague forum posts from people that we are just supposed to trust.

 

 

 

I snipped out part of this comment for brevity.

I know you weren’t there, so you’ll have to trust me when I say the person wasn’t annoying anyone except the people they were beating.

 

Then we started winning with the tactics they suggested and we listened intently to their advice.

 

This obviously pissed off the Premade’s because they couldn’t troll smash solo pugs.

 

We got one match with one of the guys from the premade’s guild on our team and the next thing, the person is squelched (they mailed each one of us they’d been playing with to tell us they’d been squelched).

 

If they were going to squelch anyone, they probably should have squelched me because I was the only one that used chat to talk to the other team (not smack talk either).

Sorry, I am not going to, nor should anyone else, just take your word for it. Things like this require evidence to support the claims of abuse not anecdotal claims. Now, a question. It only takes one person to get someone squelched? Obviously, we do not know that, but that is what you are claiming. I have not seen evidence of that. Now, if it is possible for one person reporting another person's each and every comment to get that person squelched then that may be something that needs to be adjusted about the system. I say may because there may be times that there is only one person to do the reporting.

 

You say that one person from the pre-made's guild got onto your team and all of a sudden that character, that here-to-fore has only said anything in your group's chat, is now squelched. Getting someone squelched involves right-clicking someone's name and reporting them, which the other team could not have done. Which no one in gen chat could have done because this person was not speaking in gen chat, right? Which no one else on your team did, except for that one person from the pre-made team's guild, right? Which no one that that player was PM'ing did, right?

 

If this happened it is not for you to come to the forums and present a one sided story to prove how wrong this is. It is for the person to whom it happened to take screenshots of chat and report it to CS, a message to Eric might not hurt either, as that would, as you presented it, be a violation of the ToS and RoC and likely be an actionable offense against those misusing the system.

 

BW does not have a good track record of dealing with trolling and griefing. Chris Schmidt posted that BW has "heard lots of reports about harassment and general toxicity in the game... [and will be] sharing more about the things [they have] been working on to address toxicity... in a future post." So maybe something will finally be done. Maybe people sending in reports with evidence about how the squelch system is being abused will garner some attention. But posting anecdotal accounts that we are supposed to take at face value is not going to do it.

 

It does appear that the reporting systems do need some attention from a sentient life form. We certainly do not know but it would appear to be the case that the squelch system is completely automated and any request for review can take longer than the 24-hour squelch. I would love it if BW took a more proactive role in cleaning up chat, but any such suggestion is often met with claims that BW does not have the resources or does not care enough to assign someone(s) to do it. Perhaps that is true and the only thing they can or are willing to do is an automated system. Considering that the game is almost nine years old and they have done very little to clean up chat one could certainly come to that conclusion.

 

But here they have done something, and all of a sudden complaints about how it is not working correctly crawl out of the woodwork, but oddly enough those complaints seem to fall into a select category of people: PVP'ers, referral link spammers, abusive and toxic people in gen chat who want to be obscure about what they said (or are not even reporting it themselves but relying upon a friend to post to the forums). I am not claiming that BW's system is perfect, but I am also not buying the claims of the system being broken simply because someone vaguely said so.

[DarkTergon]

[quote=ceryxp;9878311

 

You say that one person from the pre-made's guild got onto your team and all of a sudden that character, that here-to-fore has only said anything in your group's chat, is now squelched. Getting someone squelched involves right-clicking someone's name and reporting them, which the other team could not have done. Which no one in gen chat could have done because this person was not speaking in gen chat, right? Which no one else on your team did, except for that one person from the pre-made team's guild, right? Which no one that that player was PM'ing did, right?

 

 

Not getting involved in the argument, just pointing out that you can squelch anyone that is in your faction, and online, just put their name in the search bar, right click, and the report spam option is there, doesn't have to be from any chat.

[ceryxp]

Not getting involved in the argument, just pointing out that you can squelch anyone that is in your faction, and online, just put their name in the search bar, right click, and the report spam option is there, doesn't have to be from any chat.

 

Thank you for the clarification, though, I do still suspect that something else occurred as it seems rather suspicious that the squelching would only occur once someone from the pre-made team's guild got into the group. But, mayhaps not. Perhaps all it took was someone from the pre-made team's guild getting into the group, informing the guild of the person that was leading the team, and the guild reported en mass. But again, that would be a misuse of the reporting system, a violation of the ToS and RoC, and something that would have to be reported by the person who received the squelch.

[DarkTergon]

But again, that would be a misuse of the reporting system, a violation of the ToS and RoC, and something that would have to be reported by the person who received the squelch.

 

Which is why I think BW should have something in place that can track, record, etc all the reports, so if people do try and abuse it, they can be caught and punished.

They were able to do it 20 years ago, I know a lot has changed, but I though (well hoped) that some things would be easier