Can a healer climb the ladder in solo?

[SwtorThrill]

With the way how good dps is much stronger than good heals, on top of how match making works when you're above 1300, just seems like there is a invisible ceiling for healers before you really need to switch roles. It doesn't work this way for tanks, that is, it's easy for them to farm bad ones. A good dps has potential to carry for another person. In 6.0 a good healer isn't going to make a difference UNLESS both teams are equal (but how often does that happen). I know what I said is true for solo in its entirety but it just seems worse if you're a healer.

 

Any healers 1400 or above without ever switching?

Edited August 14, 2020 by SwtorThrill

[Raansu]

Healers and tanks are the easiest way to carry in solo outside of dps who off heal. Edited August 14, 2020 by Raansu

[Evolixe]

Youll only be matched against other healers for the most part (outside of mongs that deliberately decline qpops)

 

Its by far the easiest way to climb in the sense that you only have to be better than 1 player on the enemy team most of the time

[SwtorThrill]

Healers and tanks are the easiest way to carry in soio outside of dps who off heal.

 

Have you ever healed in solo this season so far? How high have you gotten? I would agree with you before 6.0 but respectfully disagree that healing is the easiest way to carry now. It's just because in solo rank now, the best defense is a good offense. A good healer cannot compensate for bad dps, but a good dps can do just that. What I am saying is, match making is more important to a good healer than it is to a good tank or good dps.

[SwtorThrill]

Youll only be matched against other healers for the most part (outside of mongs that deliberately decline qpops)

 

Its by far the easiest way to climb in the sense that you only have to be better than 1 player on the enemy team most of the time

 

In this season so far, most healers are very capable. It's now about healers talking to each other about who won the dps lottery than I out-healed you, I'm better.

[Evolixe]

I think that is a rather shortsighted way of looking at things.

Theres so much more that sets good healers apart than just healing itself.

[Raansu]

Have you ever healed in solo this season so far? How high have you gotten? I would agree with you before 6.0 but respectfully disagree that healing is the easiest way to carry now. It's just because in solo rank now, the best defense is a good offense. A good healer cannot compensate for bad dps, but a good dps can do just that. What I am saying is, match making is more important to a good healer than it is to a good tank or good dps.

 

No because I hate healing, but I've done it in the past and its not all that difficult and healing nerfed or not aint weak in 6.0. Its just not as broken as it was prior to 6.0. A decent healer can still very much carry a team much more than a random set of 4 dps.

[septru]

With the way how good dps is much stronger than good heals, on top of how match making works when you're above 1300, just seems like there is a invisible ceiling for healers before you really need to switch roles. It doesn't work this way for tanks, that is, it's easy for them to farm bad ones.

Any healers 1400 or above without ever switching?

 

I have not purely healed in 6.0 on one toon, but I did purely tank on my jugg last season "Real Prum" which I managed to almost get top3 on. I had this exact problem. So I have some experience in my answer:

 

Currently in solo ranked, the highest rated healer will get the lowest rated tanks in healer/tank games and visa versa. In healer/dps games the highest rated healer will get the lowest rated dps, and visa versa. This is how the que matches up players based on elo. And this is good. This is how it should be so that teams aren't stacked.

 

The only problem with this system of matchmaking is that sometimes the lowest rated tank/dps is very very very low rated. Sometimes sub 1k elo rated. And typically got really low rated for a reason. Global target. No gear. Has no basic understanding of pvp... ect.

 

Now usually matchmaking would keep the extremely low rated players out of your game if you are extremely high. That is what is called bracketing: restricting games to similar rated player. But the problem currently with solo ranked (at least on the American servers), is that bracketing does not currently work. What we are increasingly starting to see is 800 rated players in games with 1600 rated players. I've even seen 3 matches pop at the same time and spread out the 1400+ rated and sub 1k elo players into the three separate matches rather than placing the 1400+ in one match and the sub 1k elo players in the other. I wrote a really good post about why bracketing is broken in 6.0 in the Theory Crafter's discord. I'll leave it in spoilers below in case you want to check it out. The details don't really matter. Just the fact that brackets, as of right now, basically don't exist.

 

The main problem that occurs from a lack of brackets is that once you become the highest healer/tank in que you will consistently get an extremely low rated, unskilled player on your team. It isn't fair to the low rated player who is just trying to learn and getting flamed by toxicity non-stop for not being able to compete, and it isn't fair to you who are just trying to climb, but this is the "invisible ceiling" that you are talking about. In my case I was a 1480 rated jugg tank (the highest rated on the server) hardstuck with an 800 rated healer on my team consistently.

 

My advice: que dodge the bots. Add them to friends list and just stop queing when they are in que. You can try carrying these players. I tried for several weeks. But typically they are rated poorly for a reason. I got stuck at 1480 for three weeks trying. Don't waste your time like I did.

Edited August 15, 2020 by septru

[septru]

My quote from the Theory Crafters discord explaining why brackets don't work anymore:

 

(For context, my post was a reply to someone else pointing out that solo ranked brackets worked fine a couple years ago in s8/s9)

 

 

Think about it like this. Solo ranked is just a big pool of elo. Each new character queing solo ranked brings 1200 more elo into the pool. The more players in the pool, the more elo in the pool. When more players que, better players can take more elo from the pool, simply because there is more elo in the pool to take. This is why brackets worked so well in s8/s9. Not only where some players *extraordinarily* higher rated than others (3k rated sorc healers for example) in s8/s9, but there were more players to fill each bracket. This is why the rather wide 1k-1.5k, 1.5k-1.9k, and 1.9k+ brackets worked so well.

 

But now in s13, population has died across the boards. And so has elo. No one was even above 2k in s12, as opposed to 2k being normal in s8/s9. In fact the majority of players where 1k-1.3k. This is exactly the reason why brackets need to changed. What is the point of a 1k-1.3k bracket range when almost 90% of the players in the que are rated between 1k-1.3k? Not only do the current seasons have a lower number of players per bracket, but the overall lower population has resulted in a more narrow elo range overall. The only adequate change is more narrow brackets.

 

Edited August 15, 2020 by septru

[SwtorThrill]

My quote from the Theory Crafters discord explaining why brackets don't work anymore:

 

(For context, my post was a reply to someone else pointing out that solo ranked brackets worked fine a couple years ago in s8/s9)

 

 

Think about it like this. Solo ranked is just a big pool of elo. Each new character queing solo ranked brings 1200 more elo into the pool. The more players in the pool, the more elo in the pool. When more players que, better players can take more elo from the pool, simply because there is more elo in the pool to take. This is why brackets worked so well in s8/s9. Not only where some players *extraordinarily* higher rated than others (3k rated sorc healers for example) in s8/s9, but there were more players to fill each bracket. This is why the rather wide 1k-1.5k, 1.5k-1.9k, and 1.9k+ brackets worked so well.

 

But now in s13, population has died across the boards. And so has elo. No one was even above 2k in s12, as opposed to 2k being normal in s8/s9. In fact the majority of players where 1k-1.3k. This is exactly the reason why brackets need to changed. What is the point of a 1k-1.3k bracket range when almost 90% of the players in the que are rated between 1k-1.3k? Not only do the current seasons have a lower number of players per bracket, but the overall lower population has resulted in a more narrow elo range overall. The only adequate change is more narrow brackets.

 

You're awesome, thank you for explaining what I couldn't. You described my situation exactly with my healer! I am currently climbing the ladder back to silver tier for the third time. Matches stay relatively competitive before then, but once I get mid silver, it's over due to exactly what you described. It seems to happen without fail.

 

If it's a tank match, I always get the weaker tank. It's fine if tanks were close, but there always seem to be a huge skill gap. For example, I would get the tank in full defensive mods who can only do 200k dps overall in a match that goes to sudden death, while the other healer gets a top tier tank that does 2mil dps all while capable of mitigating dmg. Worse yet I get a tank who does not know how to guard switch. Three dps matches are no better due to always having at least one person who shouldn't be in rank, wither due to poor gear, complete ineptitude, or throwing (talking about the ones who leave match before start). It just feels so out of my control.

 

My advice: que dodge the bots. Add them to friends list and just stop queing when they are in que. You can try carrying these players. I tried for several weeks. But typically they are rated poorly for a reason. I got stuck at 1480 for three weeks trying. Don't waste your time like I did.

 

BIG thank you for this right here. To those with knowledge, follow these words. It's the best you can do with a situation like mine other than "get better." I needed to hear it from a veteran. Do not keep thinking the next match will be more fair (it won't be, you will get the same exact team until you match the other healer/tank) or I can carry (it's not worth it). Just take it slow.

 

Completely agree with you on what you said about brackets, even when brackets last worked. Last time I played rank seriously was in s9, which I do not recall this being as prevalent back then as it is now.

[JediMasterAlex]

Any healers 1400 or above without ever switching?

 

To answer your question, I believe there's only one person on SF with over 1400 on a healer.

 

Also, queue dodging/strategically queueing might help your elo in the long run, but you could also just play the game and improve. Learning to carry worse players is part of the challenge of solo ranked. Obviously it's not always possible, but it shouldn't be dismissed as impossible or somehow unfair. The problem may be a bit more acute for healers/tanks, but high rated dps face the same challenge really.

Edited August 18, 2020 by JediMasterAlex

[septru]

Also, queue dodging/strategically queueing might help your elo in the long run, but you could also just play the game and improve. Learning to carry worse players is part of the challenge of solo ranked. Obviously it's not always possible, but it shouldn't be dismissed as impossible or somehow unfair. The problem may be a bit more acute for healers/tanks, but high rated dps face the same challenge really.

 

As a general point, I agree with with this ^. For most players, if they just continue to improve and que they can begin to carry their teammates. For example (I am guessing you que on SS), although I would get Rectose on my team as a healer almost 100% of the time, I learned to carry him and won a good chunk of games.

 

There is also another point that Caecus didn't mention that you also need the wins for any high ranking. For example, gold is 80 wins + 1500 rating. I recommend getting the 80 wins before climbing to 1500. If you try to get the 80 wins at high elo while que dodging you will get very little pops.

 

Of course, sometimes there is just no carrying bads that really shouldn't be queing ranked. It is up to you if you que dodge or not.

Edited August 18, 2020 by septru

[AocaVII]

Getting a good rating in ranked is more like doing a job rather than actually having fun in a game.

A good rating is an illusion at this point or a sign a person has no life outside of a digital one, in most cases.

Equivalent:

 

To how easy it is to show a fake persona digitally; show people only what you want them to see online, and live your life through a game or digital means. It's just a phantasy, illusionary, delusionary world that immature people use to substitute for a real productive life because it's all they are capable of.

 

Ranked gold is the equivalent of vomit on a sidewalk IRL as is being liked or admired for showing a fake internet self to be liked. TBH it's pretty funny. It's about as mature as a 5 year old, amusing, infantile, demented. psychopathic (for a grown person).

Edited August 19, 2020 by AocaVII

[Sertar]

Healers and tanks are the easiest way to carry in solo outside of dps who off heal.

 

Its by far the easiest way to climb in the sense that you only have to be better than 1 player on the enemy team most of the time

 

With these posts the respective posters essentially exposed themselves as not having healed in Ranked in minimum 2 years, probably longer and/or haven't been in touch with people healing in Ranked. I don't why you would even post on a topic when you know that you have no clue and/or aren't up to date.

 

@topic: Climbing as healer has become very hard, because as the higher rated healer you generally get the lower rated Tank/DPS (because matchmaking equalizes the ELO of teams). The deciding factor in healer games is less your HPS than the DCD usage of the focussed DPS player, how good your whole team can peel and CC the enemy healer. Higher rated DPS players are usually better at providing these mentioned factors, so your winrate as higher rated healer (that gets lower rated DPS) is more likely to go down than up.

 

I think it's reasonable to say that climbing from 1400+ as a healer is almost impossible unless you queue snipe healers that are so much worse than yourself that you can reliably carry bad DPS against him, or there are similar high rated healers queueing, so that in the long run you both equally profit/get fu**ed by the DPS lottery.

 

additional note: Yes ofc, the most deciding factor in healer games is double offguard vs. single/no guard. But even then, let's assume PT players are above average rated compared to the field, would mean the lower rated healer is more likely to get more PTs, lowering the winrate of the higher rated healer even more.

[Lhancelot]

Getting a good rating in ranked is more like doing a job rather than actually having fun in a game. A good rating is an illusion at this point.

 

When it's recommended you queue dodge to get a higher rating by some of the most experienced ranked players on the game, you know it's broken. This right here alone proves how pointless ELO and rating is in ranked.

 

Nothing would be lost if they totally renovated the entire scoring system, just get rid of the rating system it doesn't work, period. All rating and ELO on this game does is encourage even more BS shenanigans and cheating for pixel rewards.

 

Queue dodging should not be the accepted norm in ranked, let alone all the other shenanigans that go on. w/e though. Dead game mode is dead game mode. RIP ranked.

[JediMasterAlex]

When it's recommended you queue dodge to get a higher rating by some of the most experienced ranked players on the game, you know it's broken. This right here alone proves how pointless ELO and rating is in ranked.

 

Nothing would be lost if they totally renovated the entire scoring system, just get rid of the rating system it doesn't work, period. All rating and ELO on this game does is encourage even more BS shenanigans and cheating for pixel rewards.

 

Queue dodging should not be the accepted norm in ranked, let alone all the other shenanigans that go on. w/e though. Dead game mode is dead game mode. RIP ranked.

 

More nonsense. I don't queue dodge. Most people don't queue dodge from what I can tell, but even for those that do, you still have to win the games that you're in, and you have to win a lot of them because of the win requirements.

 

Not to mention, how would the lack of an elo system stop queue dodging at all? You would still want to win the most games possible in any system, which would lead to queue dodging if you're committed enough. It's like, if you're going to post irrational ranked hate, you should at least try to make some sense.

 

And by the way, so far this season there are more people queueing solo ranked on SF than at any point last season from what I've seen.

Edited August 19, 2020 by JediMasterAlex

[SlimPikinz]

In my opinion, consistently winning the DPS lottery is the biggest factor of if you will win or not.

 

If your team can pressure the enemy team more, you, as the healer, can spend less time healing and more time cc'ing the enemy healer or adding some DPS for killing blow.

 

I know if my team is getting dumpstered, I have to spend every GCD for healing just to get my team out of execute range.

[SwtorThrill]

When it's recommended you queue dodge to get a higher rating by some of the most experienced ranked players on the game, you know it's broken. This right here alone proves how pointless ELO and rating is in ranked.

 

Nothing would be lost if they totally renovated the entire scoring system, just get rid of the rating system it doesn't work, period. All rating and ELO on this game does is encourage even more BS shenanigans and cheating for pixel rewards.

 

Queue dodging should not be the accepted norm in ranked, let alone all the other shenanigans that go on. w/e though. Dead game mode is dead game mode. RIP ranked.

 

I 100% agree with you that the ELO and rating system is broken. I have made a post that points gained or lost should be based more on a reworked medal system that puts more control to the players skill than match making luck.

 

With that said, queue dodging to me is when someone actively avoids their superiors (which I have never done or anyone else recommended here). Avoiding people who are truly so bad they give you a automatic loss is really the only option for healers. You can not carry these people against even a fully mediocre team. These are the people who show up in 270 or lower gear, these people spam every single dcd at the same time at 90% health, these are people who do 2k or lower dps NOT focused (reiterate NOT focused). Yes, these people queue, yes I get them consistently in higher tiers. I have the screenshots to prove it because I am currently gathering metrics. We want to keep a everyone is welcome in rank mindset, right? However, we should have the option to avoid playing with these people without shame because they will ruin a person's rating if climbing the ladder is your focus.

 

 

With these posts the respective posters essentially exposed themselves as not having healed in Ranked in minimum 2 years, probably longer and/or haven't been in touch with people healing in Ranked. I don't why you would even post on a topic when you know that you have no clue and/or aren't up to date.

 

@topic: Climbing as healer has become very hard, because as the higher rated healer you generally get the lower rated Tank/DPS (because matchmaking equalizes the ELO of teams). The deciding factor in healer games is less your HPS than the DCD usage of the focussed DPS player, how good your whole team can peel and CC the enemy healer. Higher rated DPS players are usually better at providing these mentioned factors, so your winrate as higher rated healer (that gets lower rated DPS) is more likely to go down than up.

 

I think it's reasonable to say that climbing from 1400+ as a healer is almost impossible unless you queue snipe healers that are so much worse than yourself that you can reliably carry bad DPS against him, or there are similar high rated healers queueing, so that in the long run you both equally profit/get fu**ed by the DPS lottery.

 

additional note: Yes ofc, the most deciding factor in healer games is double offguard vs. single/no guard. But even then, let's assume PT players are above average rated compared to the field, would mean the lower rated healer is more likely to get more PTs, lowering the winrate of the higher rated healer even more.

 

This person gets it completely, thank you for posting this. Bad players expect a healer to heal to full, cleanse, and throw in CC, what they fail to realize is in lop sided matches, GCD is at a premium for healers due to someone's health dropping rapidly. As you said, good DPS is more suited to handle these type of things and will often determine the outcomes. I have become a better dps playing heals in solo due to having better instincts at what is needed.

[SwtorThrill]

In my opinion, consistently winning the DPS lottery is the biggest factor of if you will win or not.

 

This is why we need to rework the ELO system. ELO is supposed to be based on skill, right? How does winning a lottery determine someone's skill? Solo does not have the pop to support this type of system anymore as mentioned before. If you play heals at all it becomes really obvious to you.

[AocaVII]

Quote: Originally Posted by SlimPikinz

"In my opinion, consistently winning the DPS lottery is the biggest factor of if you will win or not."

 

 

I don't know why it takes 7-8 years for people to figure this out LMAO

 

This very important PAY ATTENTION : In reality, ranked is all about doing objects tbh

 

If I get a response to that last sentence with someone thinking I'm serious, that's pretty much beyond stupidity.

Edited August 21, 2020 by AocaVII