Season 13 and the Future of PvP

[-Ashton-]

Lots of positive changes, no doubt.

 

The only real changes needed, are class balances and set bonuses that are directly focused on pvp. You currently buff or (in most cases) nerf classes/sets based on their pve impact. This is leaving pvp imbalanced and leaving a bottle neck of meta specs. This is quite frankly unacceptable.

 

I mean why nerf a set bonus to impact a healer specialisation, when it inevitably nerfs the output of a mid-tier dps spec? Thats such lazy development and only suggests the amount of attention/care towards pvp is pittyfull.

 

Opening up 8v8 ranked would be the single biggest hype this game has given the pvp community, since you announced youd be adding it back in 2013.

 

8v8 would give wide-range dps specs like dot specialisation to have more inclusion. Objective pvp, defend, attack, stealth fights, hutball league?!. It would be amazing. It would revive pvp guilds and encourage more people to group up and recruit people they see perform well in regs.

 

But the only way 8v8 will work again is if you allow cross-server. Dont say it isnt possible because every other mmo has achieved it, so can swtor.

[TrixxieTriss]

Ahahahhaha oh man the failure of BW-management continues. This will 100% beyond any doubt kill pvp entirely. Not only regs but also ranked as pvp will simply die out lol

 

You want a deserter lockout? Fine, implement this first:

 

- Map selection. If not specific maps then a selection between buttball, arena and the rest.

- Balanced teams. Same number of healer / tanks / dps on both teams

- Ban premades in low / midbies and enforce mirror premades at level 75

 

Maybe, just maybe it won't tank pvp entirely then...

 

I’d prefer they reduce premade sizes to 2 across the all lvl brackets instead of getting rid of them altogether in lowbies and Mids because tanks and healers often group so they learn.

I will also group sometimes with one other person to help teach them in lowbies or Mids. And my wife refuses to Pvp at lvl 75 with out me because she gets flustered.

But I can see the need to remove 4 man vs no Premade.

[Raansu]

Ahahahhaha oh man the failure of BW-management continues. This will 100% beyond any doubt kill pvp entirely. Not only regs but also ranked as pvp will simply die out lol

.

 

No it wont.

[TrixxieTriss]

Lots of positive changes, no doubt.

 

The only real changes needed, are class balances and set bonuses that are directly focused on pvp. You currently buff or (in most cases) nerf classes/sets based on their pve impact. This is leaving pvp imbalanced and leaving a bottle neck of meta specs. This is quite frankly unacceptable.

 

I mean why nerf a set bonus to impact a healer specialisation, when it inevitably nerfs the output of a mid-tier dps spec? Thats such lazy development and only suggests the amount of attention/care towards pvp is pittyfull.

 

Opening up 8v8 ranked would be the single biggest hype this game has given the pvp community, since you announced youd be adding it back in 2013.

 

8v8 would give wide-range dps specs like dot specialisation to have more inclusion. Objective pvp, defend, attack, stealth fights, hutball league?!. It would be amazing. It would revive pvp guilds and encourage more people to group up and recruit people they see perform well in regs.

 

But the only way 8v8 will work again is if you allow cross-server. Dont say it isnt possible because every other mmo has achieved it, so can swtor.

 

I know there aren’t a lot of people these days to have a massive ranked community. But they could certainly test running a mini 8v8 ranked season and see what happens. Base it on a setup like solo queue or put 2 x 4 man premades preside.

[-Ashton-]

I know there aren’t a lot of people these days to have a massive ranked community. But they could certainly test running a mini 8v8 ranked season and see what happens. Base it on a setup like solo queue or put 2 x 4 man premades preside.

 

it makes complete sense to try, 8v8 maps are screaming for more objective/group communicated play. i feel sorry for those who never got to try an 8v8 ranked map, It was insanely fun before it was pulled

[Lundorff]

I’d prefer they reduce premade sizes to 2 across the all lvl brackets instead of getting rid of them altogether in lowbies and Mids because tanks and healers often group so they learn.

 

Lowbies on DM is littered with tryhards in 2-man groups that only play level +34 characters and only play to stomp others in arena. A 2-man experienced premade in arena against clueless randoms is devastating. Banning all premades in low and midbies will make it far less toxic.

 

No it wont.

 

Yes it will

[SteveTheCynic]

Overall, I think I'm done with PvP. I was never very enthusiastic about it, although I did, in the 4.X/5.X era, get one character to 67 Valor by sheer persistence.

 

But with no mission advancement for losses *and* a fifteen-minute deserter lockout(1) in unranked, that's a no.

 

(1) A *one* minute lockout is useful because it stops me backfilling the match I just left(2). I left it for a reason, and putting me straight back in there isn't going to stop that reason from being valid.

 

(2) There are other ways to prevent that, of course, and those other ways provide a better play experience.

[Raansu]

Yes it will

 

No, it really wont. Only a small amount of people just constantly quit to get the map they want, most just don't care. PvPers will continue to PvP. The ranked changes are actually a good change and the only thing they need to fix with regs is to give it more viable rewards so that gearing is comparable to doing a FP run since they take equal amount of time to do.

 

Adding a lockout timer for quitters is not going to kill PvP. Its already in a bad place and people still PvP.

[Raansu]

But with no mission advancement for losses *and* a fifteen-minute deserter lockout(1) in unranked, that's a no.

 

This is how it used to be. The daily was like 3 wins and the weekly was 8 or 9. You had to get a win for it to count towards the quest. To be blunt, this should have never changed. PvP honestly got worse when they changed it to how it is currently as people just kinda stopped trying or they just number farmed.

 

Granted the addition of arenas escalated the number farming as people took regs less and less seriously, but it was a pile on of BW's wonderful choices over the years.

Edited July 15, 2020 by Raansu

[Lundorff]

No, it really wont. Only a small amount of people just constantly quit to get the map they want, most just don't care. PvPers will continue to PvP. The ranked changes are actually a good change and the only thing they need to fix with regs is to give it more viable rewards so that gearing is comparable to doing a FP run since they take equal amount of time to do.

 

Adding a lockout timer for quitters is not going to kill PvP. Its already in a bad place and people still PvP.

 

We only have our own subjective perspective to measure from, but I personally see many. many people leave buttball and OPG every time it loads. I think it's an error of judgement to assume these people are suddenly going to play something they don't want, and personally I will just leave and either stop queuing regs completely or run a few FPs until I get bored and close the game. A deserter lockout without map selection is going to be a net loss for pvp.

 

Yes the rewards for ranked are fine, but with regs dying due to the deserter lockout ranked will suffer as well. It needs fresh blood and with fewer people player regs, even fewer will try ranked.

Edited July 15, 2020 by Lundorff

[Raansu]

I only ever see people leave Vandin or arenas. Regular huttball people tend to stick around and even when there is a leaver its usuall just one person.

 

A leaver penalty isn't going to kill PvP, saying that is pure hyperbole. I think the leaver penalty is dumb and unecessary, but its not going to stop me from pvping, but then again the only map I really dislike is Vandin which is a shame because OG Huttball is the best map in the damn game and Vandin could have been just as good if they didn't go overkill with the barriers and traps.

[Lundorff]

No it is not going to kill PvP from one week to the next, but it will bleed even more people away. The pop times will increase and eventually pvp will not be an active part. It will be like GSF.

[Raansu]

No it is not going to kill PvP from one week to the next, but it will bleed even more people away. The pop times will increase and eventually pvp will not be an active part. It will be like GSF.

 

GSF queues pop quite frequently....

[merovejec]

GSF queues pop quite frequently....

Yup, on DM the GSF pops are very good. I basically just do GSF these days since it gives a lot of fragments.

[Evolixe]

Honestly the last time I made a post like this was somewhere in the summer of 2013;

 

If you have any care for whats left of the PvP community at all, you will delay 6.1.2b and NOT implement a deserter timer for Unranked PvP. People are still going to leave warzones they don't want to play and with nowhere else to go they will just log and call it quits.

 

All of you saying "ah man it won't be so bad".. Do you really want to chance that against the amount of people that say it will? Because if we're right then in a year or so all of you will remember you were here, now.. Because today was the day that SWTOR PvP officially got killed by Bioware themselves. Just like how they did with 8v8 ranked and the accessory PvP guilds.

 

 

Delay the patch, don't go through with unranked deserter. This is as real as it's ever going to get.

Edited July 15, 2020 by Evolixe

[Raansu]

Honestly the last time I made a post like this was somewhere in the summer of 2013;

 

If you have any care for whats left of the PvP community at all, you will delay 6.1.2b and NOT implement a deserter timer for Unranked PvP. People are still going to leave warzones they don't want to play and with nowhere else to go they will just log and call it quits.

 

All of you saying "ah man it won't be so bad".. Do you really want to chance that against the amount of people that say it will? Because if we're right then in a year or so all of you will remember you were here, now.. Because today was the day that SWTOR PvP officially got killed by Bioware themselves. Just like how they did with 8v8 ranked and the accessory PvP guilds.

 

 

Delay the patch, don't go through with unranked deserter. This is as real as it's ever going to get.

 

More hyperbole. People quitting out of warzones isn't nearly as widespread as you think it is and its not going to kill regs. The only people that frequently quit matches are not even quitting because of the map, its because they are looking for the easy win wz's.

[Evolixe]

More hyperbole. People quitting out of warzones isn't nearly as widespread as you think it is and its not going to kill regs. The only people that frequently quit matches are not even quitting because of the map, its because they are looking for the easy win wz's.

 

Okay man, see you in a year. Where I'll tell you I told you so.

 

Maybe we should combat some more imaginary problems that don't really exist

[lord-angelus]

Good job Chris 👍. Now implement map selection too 👌

[Raansu]

Okay man, see you in a year. Where I'll tell you I told you so.

 

Maybe we should combat some more imaginary problems that don't really exist

 

PvP has its problems, but I've seen "this will kill pvp" since 1.0 and yet for the most part its fine. The closest thing to killing it was the galactic command which in combination of the increased leveling speed which did end up killing lowbie/midbie pvp, but max level pvp? It will be fine.

[Lundorff]

PvP has its problems, but I've seen "this will kill pvp" since 1.0 and yet for the most part its fine. The closest thing to killing it was the galactic command which in combination of the increased leveling speed which did end up killing lowbie/midbie pvp, but max level pvp? It will be fine.

 

Try this: queue 50 warzones today and enter as soon as you get the pop. Then write down just how many "<NAME> has left the warzone" messages you get. I bet it will be +100 people leaving. Remember to also notice how many leave during the match - especially when your side is losing.

 

With a deserter lockout you will get 3 responses:

 

a) People will insta-leave and can not re-queue which will prolong queue times.

b) People will sit out in a combination of protest or because they think it will be faster than lockout. Say hello to even more terrible matches than now.

c) Some people will play. Sure some will actually play a match or two, but after getting HB 3 times in a row they will just leave.

 

TL;DR: There is no upside to a deserter lockout. None. It will absolutely not create better games. It only makes sense in ranked.

Edited July 15, 2020 by Lundorff

[SOULCASTER]

I think what the devs are going for (with the reg warzone deserter lockout) is for people to stay committed to the queues they choose. So it will force people to stay in the match or risk not being able to do pvp for another 15min. Which yes, will have the side effect of making people upset if they cant leave the warzones they hate.

 

I would probably have to propose that the simple compromise is:

- Allow people to leave a warzone up until it starts (i think 1-2min window). After the match started and you leave, you get the 15min deserter lockout. I think that is a more than fair compromise.

 

As for backfills, you could allow them to leave without penalty, because they are a replacement in the first place. But i could also see giving them a penalty because you cant have people backfilling non stop, as it does make the game unplayable for that team.

Edited July 15, 2020 by SOULCASTER

[Lundorff]

I think what the devs are going for (with the reg warzone deserter lockout) is for people to stay committed to the queues they choose. So it will force people to stay in the match or risk not being able to do pvp for another 15min. Which yes, will have the side effect of making people upset if they cant leave the warzones they hate.

 

I would probably have to propose that the simple compromise is:

- Allow people to leave a warzone up until it starts (i think 1-2min window). After the match started and you leave, you get the 15min deserter lockout. I think that is a more than fair compromise.

 

As for backfills, you could allow them to leave without penalty, because they are a replacement in the first place. But i could also see giving them a penalty because you cant have people backfilling non stop, as it does make the game unplayable for that team.

 

So my side is getting spawn farmed because no one knows their class and/or because the other side has a tryhard premade because they can not go 30 seconds without their frieeeeends, so now I have to suffer through this anyway? Narh mate, I will instantly leave. Give us map selection and balanced teams prior to any type of deserter lockout that isn't needed in the first place.

[JattaGin]

Do I understand correctly that the unranked PvP missions will go back to having to win?

 

If yes, I don't understand why BW is reversing their previous decision to change the system from having to win to participation. The reason for this was that queues were dead on most servers back then. I vividly remember how certain imperial guilds on The Progenitor went into regs all day long with their premades to roflstomp the poor pugs. That's what killed the PvP scene on TP back in the days.

 

It's not difficult to foresee where this decision will lead to: less people queueing again. We're going back in circles. Since Mr. Kanneg took over they reversed and continue to reverse decisions they made in order to rescue this game. I'm not sure what their plan is. I kinda understand what they hope to achieve, but why don't they have a look at their past metrics? They might tell a different story.

 

I'm out in such a scenario. I win maybe 1 out of 10 reg WZs, even less ranked. I already quit ranked. If I need to win regs for getting rewards, I quit that, too. The odds are too much against me.

[welitonsfx]

Man I'm so happy that you guys are looking after PVP players, I love PVP and for sure this patch will encourage more people do PVP...

 

Only thing I hope happen one day is if we could chose Wich warzone we want to do like we do with flashpoints, is bad when queue a lot a WZ you don't like hehe...

 

But rally thanks for the changes in the ranked PVP rewards I was really missing a PVP improvement on the game! Looking forward to see what this patch will bring to the PVP community!

[bladech]

Just a couple points of clarification to the original post here:

 

• Instead of giving you 18 Satchels, we are giving you 2 Medium Satchels (which is the equivalent of 18)
  
• You actually get 36 rolls for Processed Isotope Stabilizers, which practically means you will receive about triple what you receive now
  

 

One other addition for Season 13, in regards to this:

 

We will be extending the Deserter queue lockout to 15 minutes, to disincentivize leaving matches early.

 

 

That price is for the full set.

 

 

This would be for everything but GSF. Those missions remain unchanged in completion requirements.

 

 

This is not enough to save team ranked from its poor condition. You need to fully return back to season 10 rewarding system when we had the most active and participated team ranked season with team ranked matches popping almost 24/7. The changes you provide with season 13 won't be enough