Forcing pvp players to play pve, you must be kidding?

[bladech]

While you refuse to add any serious rewards/incentives to play ranked which led to full death of team ranked and significant increase in number of players quiting the game, with new patch you add more set bonuses drop only from new operation?. So you don't want to force any player to play pvp yet you want to force pvp players to play pve by providing more and more set bonuses which can be obtained only from pve content? You are hypocrites indeed. So to keep flashpoints and some of operations alive you turned flashpoints into the fastest way of gearing and made so that many set bonuses (including some of set bonuses from the begining of 6.0) drop only from certain operations? Yet you refuse to provide any viable rewards (mats, set bonuses etc) into team ranked?

 

What about stop forcing pvp players to play master mode operation to get certain set bonuses as you refuse to force non-pvp players to play pvp (since there is nothing you get from playing pvp during the week)?

Edited June 24, 2020 by bladech

[Tsillah]

It's a fair complaint.

 

In my view BW for the larger part and the PvP community themselves have made PvP fail in this game.

 

BW never made a proper set up for PvP and there's just too little variation. Also the lack of rewards and indeed now that you have to not only do PvE but the hardest content in PvE to get BiS gear for PvP is just a kick in the teeth for what's left of the PvP community. It's therefore my opinion that BW have now given up on PvP entirely and that it's entirely optional content like say Uprisings, except still with fewer rewards than even that.

 

The community is also partially to blame though. The high toxicity and behavior like leaving at the start or mid warzone only made it worse.

 

Still, I lay the main blame for the situation with BW who failed to expand PvP to a set up that at least could've had a chance. I think though that the PvP community is so small now that it's no longer a concern for them. I even dare to go as far as to say that there are probably more people progression raiding NiM (MM) than PvP'ing. That's how I read this situation.

[Lord_Malganus]

BW for the larger part and the PvP community themselves have made PvP fail in this game.

 

That says it all.

[Ahwassa]

I even dare to go as far as to say that there are probably more people progression raiding NiM (MM) than PvP'ing. That's how I read this situation.

 

I think there are more PvPers than NIM raiders. But there are more NIM raiders than ranked PvPers.

(At least what I perceive on my server - I don´t have stats.)

 

They should add PvP sets that only drop in PvP and Ranked - that way it would be fair and maybe more people would give PvP a try.

 

I mean PvP can be pretty fun and it would even better with the right amount of rewards

[StrikePrice]

6.0: All sets available for playing all content. Smart.

 

6.1.2: More sets behind PvE content walls that 99% of players will never get to. Stupid.

 

It's like the dev team woke up for 6.0 and then went back to sleep for 6.1.*.

 

If there is going to be PvE only sets, there needs to be PvP only sets. But, Bioware (if there even is such a thing anymore) hates PvP and wants it to go away, so that will never happen.

[StrikePrice]

In my view BW for the larger part and the PvP community themselves have made PvP fail in this game.

Blaming the players is wrong. It's bad game design that makes the community toxic. If there were rewards for expanding the player-base and bringing more players into PvP, then the community would do it. The community does what they are incented to do by the game design.

 

You put an ELO system in a team game? Are you stupid? What do you think is going to happen when your rating depends on someone else's performance? Blaming the players for the consequences of that makes no sense at all.

 

Terrible match making results in players leaving the match in the middle. What is the incentive for someone to stay in a match when they cannot leave their spawn point without getting immediately killed? Again, that's bad game design.

 

Take any game. Any sport. Put in random and unbalanced matchmaking and make individual results depend on the group and you will get exactly the same toxic behavior.

 

Don't blame players.

 

The maps were not well thought out to allow a team that is being dominated to "come back" or get into the game. And, the bad matchmaking ensures that any time there is a premade or a guarded healer on one team and not the other, it's not just over, it's immediate domination.

 

Every single thing you hate about PvP can be traced back to bad game design.

Edited June 24, 2020 by StrikePrice

[DawnAskham]

IMO spending resources on NiM Dxun is a waste given the extremely small NiM player base remaining (not that it was ever large - and I say that as someone who has raided NiM over the years), the extremely small development staff in general, and the large number of existing game areas that could use work (from polish to bug fixes to redesign and additions).

 

That said, if drop rates are comparable to HM sets, the new sets will be like unicorns on most servers.

 

As such, I don't find this to be a PVP vs. PVE issue - but rather one of a) wasting resources on content so few will ever play and b) the existing issue of set availability where one class has a preferred set that is on vendor and / or drops reguarly in reward boxes while another class has a preferred set tied to ridiculously low RNG.

 

Oh and at this point in the game, I would have created new Dxun sets that provide benefits in Dxun to create a chance for progression that includes gearing up within the operation (as in while progressing through an operation, each boss killed provides gear that gives the group a slightly better chance at the next boss / next run).

Edited June 24, 2020 by DawnAskham

[Tsillah]

Blaming the players is wrong. It's bad game design that makes the community toxic. If there were rewards for expanding the player-base and bringing more players into PvP, then the community would do it. The community does what they are incented to do by the game design.

 

You put an ELO system in a team game? Are you stupid? What do you think is going to happen when your rating depends on someone else's performance? Blaming the players for the consequences of that makes no sense at all.

 

Terrible match making results in players leaving the match in the middle. What is the incentive for someone to stay in a match when they cannot leave their spawn point without getting immediately killed? Again, that's bad game design.

 

Take any game. Any sport. Put in random and unbalanced matchmaking and make individual results depend on the group and you will get exactly the same toxic behavior.

 

Don't blame players.

 

The maps were not well thought out to allow a team that is being dominated to "come back" or get into the game. And, the bad matchmaking ensures that any time there is a premade or a guarded healer on one team and not the other, it's not just over, it's immediate domination.

 

Every single thing you hate about PvP can be traced back to bad game design.

I disagree with you. If you want a community, the community is always partially responsible. DEFINITELY blame players also. But, as I said, the main blame lies with BioWare.

 

The thing is that for a community there's 2 things that are important:

A reason to have a community

A good atmosphere

 

The first part is BioWare's responsibility

The second part is not. That's up to the players. And although not all players are problematic, historically in PvP too many have been toxic and selfish. You can't maintain a community like that.

 

So no, I wholeheartedly disagree that you cannot blame the players, but the main issue is still with BioWare.

[Ner_idia]

Remember when gear for PVE was gated behind PVP content not so long ago?

 

Now you know how it feels.

[Kulyok]

Aren't all sets or nearly all sets available to everybody from a vendor/crafted? Tech fragments from all alts, weekly conquest completed in five-ten minutes - and you can buy everything.

[Qouivandes]

i used to PvP a lot even though I am not very good at it. I stopped because the player base that PvPs is so dang toxic. Even when you are on a winning team its a crap show of epeens and bad attitudes. It is no longer any fun.

[-Ashton-]

I disagree with you. If you want a community, the community is always partially responsible. DEFINITELY blame players also. But, as I said, the main blame lies with BioWare.

 

The thing is that for a community there's 2 things that are important:

A reason to have a community

A good atmosphere

 

The first part is BioWare's responsibility

The second part is not. That's up to the players. And although not all players are problematic, historically in PvP too many have been toxic and selfish. You can't maintain a community like that.

 

So no, I wholeheartedly disagree that you cannot blame the players, but the main issue is still with BioWare.

 

 

You're so wrong

 

My guild and I played beta, gave consistent feedback on the resolve system and got no returns.

 

We waited several publishes until they gave us 8v8 ranked. Time and time again they cancelled that update,the majority of top players left after losing patience. Those who were left scrambled to make new guilds/groups to participate.

 

Thats why pvp in swtor failed.

[Sareeph]

Aren't all sets or nearly all sets available to everybody from a vendor/crafted? Tech fragments from all alts, weekly conquest completed in five-ten minutes - and you can buy everything.

 

All sets have a chance to drop from all content according to the Dev's. Different set's have a "greater chance" to drop from doing specific content or types of content. I have more "Dxun pieces" by buying from Kai directly or from buying his unidentified pieces than I have from actually doing Dxun. I even had one drop from the unidentified piece from the Spoils of War vendor.

[Sareeph]

You're so wrong

 

My guild and I played beta, gave consistent feedback on the resolve system and got no returns.

 

We waited several publishes until they gave us 8v8 ranked. Time and time again they cancelled that update,the majority of top players left after losing patience. Those who were left scrambled to make new guilds/groups to participate.

 

Thats why pvp in swtor failed.

 

My guild quit after the Spawn camping debacle on Ilum. Not from delaying any 8v8 ranked update. Over 100 players gone overnight and back to playing WoW.

[DarkTergon]

Blaming the players is wrong. It's bad game design that makes the community toxic.

 

You can't blame BW on the behaviour of players, the players have a choice, they choose to be toxic.

[PancaSWTOR]

Aren't all sets or nearly all sets available to everybody from a vendor/crafted? Tech fragments from all alts, weekly conquest completed in five-ten minutes - and you can buy everything.

 

You are totally right, but people nowdays have 0 patience and want all here and now.

 

No time to farm frags and hope for the good drop.

No time to make a team (ok it take some time or a guild to make a good one...still) to play ops and get bis gear.

 

Is people asking to get a ingame mail with all the new gear the same day expansion come out?

 

At least now you got something to do instead of saying that the game is dead and there is anything to do.

[JediQuaker]

SWTOR is basically an MMO - that is, it's a PvE game with a PvP element as one of it's components along with GSF, swoop racing, etc. There would be more of a complaint for PvE players to be forced to PvP.

 

I realize that there are people who only want to PvP, but they're really playing the wrong game. They should be playing an FPS.

[Rion_Starkiller]

In my view BW for the larger part and the PvP community themselves have made PvP fail in this game.

 

That's pretty much my assessment too. I'm honestly amazed the devs waste any of their time on the most toxic bunch of people in this game. I also think it's bonkers that there are people who solely play warzones in this game. You don't even have to be subscribed to pvp in this game, you just have to have friends, or multiple toons.

 

I think there are more PvPers [warzones] than NIM raiders. But there are more NIM raiders than ranked PvPers.

(At least what I perceive on my server - I don´t have stats.)

 

That's my perception as well. Though I think if we were to quantify player types, RP'ers on SF would be the largest demographic

 

I started NiM raiding in 5.10, and holy crap, there are tons of raiders in the NiM community. I discovered a new world with its own pecking order -- It's a very strange, eccentric group.

 

__________

 

As for these NiM Dxun set bonuses, don't worry about them folks. Most of them are just collector's items. If I were a betting man, I would wager that the devs will add new set bonuses for pvp with the next pvp update. Assuming there is a pvp update like last year.

Edited June 24, 2020 by Rion_Starkiller

[Nightblazer]

Goes both ways. I shouldn't have to PvP for PvE things. Just because I play an Inquisitor, I shouldn't be forced to PvP just to get Pierce unlocked as a companion for PvE.

 

As for the issue at hand, simple solution is to just bring back separate PvP gear that is only earned via PvP: WZs, Arena, Ranked and Unranked.

[alphamalebsr]

Yup, this worked so well for WOW so I guess BW thinks it we will love it here too..

 

But wait people hated it, so now they are changing it back with their new expansion...

[killdozerone]

i used to PvP a lot even though I am not very good at it. I stopped because the player base that PvPs is so dang toxic. Even when you are on a winning team its a crap show of epeens and bad attitudes. It is no longer any fun.

 

I suggest you turn the chat off. But I know what you mean, there’s nothing quite like being tunneled and focused by 3 fully geared, fully augmented BiS assassins and having no healer to save you. Ever. Solo queuing is a lesson in alcoholism.

[alphamalebsr]

I wasn't happy with the lack of WPVP now and I really am not happy hearing this...

 

Man oh man I go through MMO's more then I go through women... What in the blank can I play now though

[TaylaEwa]

Don't worry.. ranked players have been coming into regs for weeks and ruining those games too. My friends and I always avoided ranked for its toxicity. But now even Regs are no fun when you get pitted against BiS premades. I mean.. you do realize how hard a decently geared PT can hit? The only way we figured out how to take them down is to survive the initial onslaught.. but even then.. when you have 3 guys who can each hit you for 90k with one hit.. what's the point?

 

We haven't done more than two pvp matches in a row in almost 3 weeks.. there's just no point.

Edited June 24, 2020 by TaylaEwa

[StrikePrice]

I disagree with you.

Fair enough. But, every consequence you're talking about can be directly tied to a bad design decision in a very predictable manner. So :shrug:

[Yojadi]

PVP is dead in swtor, it's not like WoW where it's an esport.

 

They will never again make gear/sets for PVP only rewards like they used to. I'd say maybe 1% of the swtor playerbase plays strictly for pvp. Why worry about it? BW is trying to make happy the majority of the players, and the majority of the players left in this game are here for Story missions/Ops/transmogging/designing strongholds.

 

Were you here the first year swtor came out? do you have any idea how much crying there was that most of the collest looking sets in the game were locked behing needing rank 60 in pvp? It's never been a strong pvp focused game, ever.