Jimmc Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 I'm not denying there were trolls and ninjas before the lfd tool the difference is before that tool was introduced trolls and ninjas were hated and blacklisted to the point of them using money to name change their name (too bad you could find out their new name due to your friends list HA) BUT once that tool was introduced the consequences were gone trolls and ninjas multiplied and communitys suffered terribly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Everything was better when people used to socialize! Yah, nothing poisons progress like nostalgia, imagining a fluffy, golden-age past that never existed and trying to go back to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerrusPA Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 I'm not denying there were trolls and ninjas before the lfd tool the difference is before that tool was introduced trolls and ninjas were hated and blacklisted to the point of them using money to name change their name (too bad you could find out their new name due to your friends list HA) BUT once that tool was introduced the consequences were gone trolls and ninjas multiplied and communitys suffered terribly. Again, the supposed effect of the DF might simply be a perception bias. You see more idiots because you have access to a larger pool of idiots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 I'm not denying there were trolls and ninjas before the lfd tool the difference is before that tool was introduced trolls and ninjas were hated and blacklisted to the point of them using money to name change their name (too bad you could find out their new name due to your friends list HA) BUT once that tool was introduced the consequences were gone trolls and ninjas multiplied and communitys suffered terribly. There was no such consequence. As proof, I hold up SWTOR today, where despite the lack of an LFD tool, ninjas, jerks and trolls abound ingame. You'll group with them frequently, and there's no "blacklist" that kept them from getting into YOUR group. The whole blacklist idea is a fantasy dreamed up by disgruntled gamers who think everyone else actually cares what they think about some stranger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmc Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 You're forgetting a rather LARGE Part of teh population. those who don't care either way. They're fine without LFD, but they'd happily use it if it was implemented. Both those actively for it, and actively against it are the minority. bioware didn't say anything about them not wanting it, they said they don't want to implement it YET, but they probably will in the future. They said they don't want to implement it, they want people to socialize. I can try to find the quote if you like? (Tho it was around september as i recall before the forums wipe, can i even look up threads before the forum wipe?) So heres the thing. The game is prospering, subs aren't bleeding and people are having fun. You even admitted in your last post that not having a lfd tool wouldn't kill the game so why should we have it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hateforged Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 But it is especially when the follow-up is <gasp> actually talking to people who are also looking for a group. About whether or not you can join them? I don't understand, are people having life changing, thought provoking, stance challenging conversations with the old way of LFG? Sure I remember sitting in Shattrath, looking for anour for a healer, or CC or whatever, and you know what, it wasn't fun. I'm still polite when I LFG both here and in WoW, if people want to be ***** because they're hiding behind a keyboard that's one thing, but attacking the LFD as the source of "community" erosion, is laughable at best. Look BioWare, we know you need this game to work, otherwise you're going to lose profitability. Don't be stupid and listen to the vocal minority deluding themselves into gaming purism. If they want to LFG themselves, they still can - but you need to create a system soon, or Diablo 3 will eat your lunch so fast, you won't know what happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meduka_Meguca Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 My stand is clear, cross realm LFG will solve the primary problem. Inefficiency in accessing coop group content. As this fulfils the prime directive, any side effects can be tolerable. Jerks, ninjas and whatevers can still be filtered out of your personal groups. Chat will be less spammy with most of the LFGs moving to the automated tool. Its BW's call but we members of the community should continue to give our feedback, however repetative, so that they will remember that this is still something that might require action or inaction on their part. We are not here to convince each other, we are picthing our case to the BW staff reading the forums like they say they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerrusPA Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 There was no such consequence. As proof, I hold up SWTOR today, where despite the lack of an LFD tool, ninjas, jerks and trolls abound ingame. You'll group with them frequently, and there's no "blacklist" that kept them from getting into YOUR group. The whole blacklist idea is a fantasy dreamed up by disgruntled gamers who think everyone else actually cares what they think about some stranger. Oh I do remember a few people achieving a kind of server-wide notoriety due to... something or other. But the ones who did are a tiny drop of water in an ocean of terribleness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acheros Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 They said they don't want to implement it, they want people to socialize. I can try to find the quote if you like? (Tho it was around september as i recall before the forums wipe, can i even look up threads before the forum wipe?) So heres the thing. The game is prospering, subs aren't bleeding and people are having fun. You even admitted in your last post that not having a lfd tool wouldn't kill the game so why should we have it? Of course it wouldn't kill the game. but it will greatly improve it. Are you saying, NOTHING, AT ALL, IN THIS GAME can be improved upon simply because its doing well -so far-? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmc Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 There was no such consequence. As proof, I hold up SWTOR today, where despite the lack of an LFD tool, ninjas, jerks and trolls abound ingame. You'll group with them frequently, and there's no "blacklist" that kept them from getting into YOUR group. The whole blacklist idea is a fantasy dreamed up by disgruntled gamers who think everyone else actually cares what they think about some stranger. Give me some proof that drones of trolls ninjas and jerks are running rampant through sw tor. Because on my server (Vulkan Highway) the community is pleasant. I haven't encountered any ninjas in my groups and the only trolling spot is dromund cass (we call it barrens chat lol) and if all other servers are filled with trolls jerks and ninjas as you're claiming why would my peaceful server want to merge with those corrupted servers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Give me some proof that drones of trolls ninjas and jerks are running rampant through sw tor. Because on my server (Vulkan Highway) the community is pleasant. I haven't encountered any ninjas in my groups and the only trolling spot is dromund cass (we call it barrens chat lol) and if all other servers are filled with trolls jerks and ninjas as you're claiming why would my peaceful server want to merge with those corrupted servers? I'm guessing you're what, level 15 maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Limedust Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 The best answer to this will give you wow. While at vanilla one of the best MMO´s ever, also because of its community - it was one of the worst at WOTLK until today, due things like addons, dual spec, LFG and whatever else. If you have to talk to people before, during and after a dungeon then yes this will build a community. You obvisly dont know what talking really means... For you it seems to be "spamming dps meters, insulting members or so" - well yes this is not socialising but this is exactly what you get with such a tool. Really great post. You managed to offer nothing outside of anecdotal evidence (well, really just anecdotal assertions), logical fallacies, and baseless accusations. Bring on the LF(Flashpoint) tool as soon as possible. It will be a nice addition to a half-way decent game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmc Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Of course it wouldn't kill the game. but it will greatly improve it. Are you saying, NOTHING, AT ALL, IN THIS GAME can be improved upon simply because its doing well -so far-? In your opinion it will greatly improve it. In my opinion and many others it will severly hurt it. and sure GAME BREAKING ISSUES can be improved on like you know glitches bugs lag n such Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acheros Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 In your opinion it will greatly improve it. In my opinion and many others it will severly hurt it. and sure GAME BREAKING ISSUES can be improved on like you know glitches bugs lag n such and many others agree with me... right, but nothing else, other then the bugs theres -nothing- that could of been improved...At all... The hasn't been bleeding subs at all, yet they still sure seemed to "improve" slicing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Limedust Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 In your opinion it will greatly improve it. In my opinion and many others it will severly hurt it. and sure GAME BREAKING ISSUES can be improved on like you know glitches bugs lag n such Your opinion is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmc Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Really great post. You managed to offer nothing outside of anecdotal evidence (well, really just anecdotal assertions), logical fallacies, and baseless accusations. Bring on the LF(Flashpoint) tool as soon as possible. It will be a nice addition to a half-way decent game. Maybe in 4 or 5 years champ, you know when it might be needed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmc Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 and many others agree with me... right, but nothing else, other then the bugs theres -nothing- that could of been improved...At all... The hasn't been bleeding subs at all, yet they still sure seemed to "improve" slicing. slicing was game breaking. It offered far more profit then the other profs so they nerfed it. Not having a lfd tool isn't gamebreaking so......nice try i guess? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Limedust Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Maybe in 4 or 5 years champ, you know when it might be needed Why wait, Sparky? They can put in a tool, you can get mad, and we'll all be better off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmc Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Your opinion is wrong. the sky is green. See i can claim things without evidence also Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acheros Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 the sky is green. See i can claim things without evidence also slicing was game breaking. It offered far more profit then the other profs so they nerfed it. Not having a lfd tool isn't gamebreaking so......nice try i guess? You already did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmc Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Why wait, Sparky? They can put in a tool, you can get mad, and we'll all be better off. Or they can keep the tool out like bioware wants and you can keep raging on the forums while the world gos on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Limedust Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 the sky is green. See i can claim things without evidence also Haha. Why should I bother to provide you with evidence? There are pages and pages of it that you can read all you like. Your side is wrong. Clearly. The above claim should be given the same credence as your original one. Are you usually this prone to bad thinking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deavyin Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Sorry, you're posting contradictory statements here. You claim you have a lot of trouble finding groups and experience long wait times to find groups and can't effectively find groups without a LFG tool, but you say you can't have a conversation in general chat because it's being FLOODED with LFG messages. Now wait a sec, which one is it? You've got so many people flooding general chat with LFG messages that you can't hold a conversation in general chat but you can't find any groups? Come on. I totally understand people wanting a LFG tool because it makes things more convenient but when you say things like this then it becomes obvious a LFG tool is not a necessity. Wow, where to begin. I in no way said that everyone was looking for the same group as me nor did I ever say that these were unique individuals. Like I have said previously, I have had to spam (spamming is when you do something over and over repeatedly) and I have witnessed several other people doing the same thing. It's often a heroic I have already done and therefore will not be interested in doing as there is no point. My POINT was that it has no place in general chat and is distracting and annoying when the same person writes "LFG DPS XXXX HEROIC PST" every 10 seconds. In absolutely NO WAY does that bolster 'community' as many people put it. Also, a LFG tool isn't going to increase or decrease the number of people on a server that are looking for a group. If people can't find groups because server populations are low, then that's a problem that needs other solutions. What a LFG tool does is absolve players of any need to form a group. So instead of getting 10 people posting LFG and no one willing to actually form the group, these players get randomly thrown into groups. We've all seen people moan in general chat in games about how someone needs to form a group but they refuse to be the one to do it. No one ever said it was going to do anything about the amount of people looking to form a group...and I could just say "and that's that" and leave this argument alone because it's absolutely pointless to respond but i'm going to anyway. As for people being willing to form a group: yeah, so...some people don't want to form a group...they should be punished for this? That is the most ludicrous thing I have ever heard. If 10 people want a group but none of them want to put together a group then let the system do it for them...there DONE...answered...owned. I have attempted to put together groups before and ran into the same problem: can't find people. The issue isn't that there aren't enough people who want to do heroics/flashpoints, the problem is they aren't in the same zone as you (ie fleet for flashpoints) or they aren't intently staring at/spamming general chat. Instead they are often questing, staring at their cool downs, in guild chat etc. You know...playing the game. Looking for a group should not be some meta game to the actual game...that doesn't make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmc Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 You already did. Bioware even said it was offering far more profit then the other profs so they brought it in line with the others. Are you calling the creators of the game liars? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Limedust Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 (edited) Rage? Hehe. I forget that people don't know how to read anymore. Edited December 30, 2011 by Limedust Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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