@LFG tool haterz

[coffeerox]

Same Server LFD does not work because like I said in my post, people eventually outgrow those instances. There is only so much amount of new people coming in and getting settled on a server. This is even true of World of Warcraft.

 

With the population levels now, there isn't any major problems getting a group together but this is only temporary. It will hit eventually and when it does, there will be a major outcry asking for LFD. Trust me on this one.

[Jederix]

It obviously contributed otherwise me and many others wouldn't of quit wow for this game because of it.

Edit: The thing is it is obvious the community went down the drain after the lfd tool was implemented, when you had to group with people on your server you had a reputation if you were hated you were blacklisted nobody would group with you, once the lfd tool was implemented that all changed suddenly you had no reputation you could just simply click that tool for a clean slate and you know what *you could be as hateful as you wanted in that run because you would probably never see those people again*

This resulted in a high rise of ninjas, trolls, and overall bad feelings in the community.

 

Now we see why you think LFD was the root of everyone leaving WoW...because you and your friends left because of it.

 

Classic "Everyone else is like me, therefore they are quitting for the same reasons I am quitting". Gotcha. Your personal feelings have no bearing on the multiple reasons many people left WoW, no matter how much you wish otherwise.

[Khoranth]

Bored at work, been poring over the forums. One point of contention I've run across frequently is the idea of a LFG tool, wether or not it should be implemented. I'm in the pro-LFG tool camp myself, but the argument goes that somehow the tool destroys player community, makes people less social, etc.

 

What?

 

Do you consider it socializing to ask (or spam) people in general chat (or whispers) if they want to run an instance? Is it the time spent before the party is filled out? I'm just looking for a more in-depth explanation of what people mean when they claim dungeon finders ruin a server's sense of community. I've played MMOs with and without LFG tools, and for the life of me, I can't ever recall those without having this vaunted sense of belonging the anti-tool camp purports.

 

THe LFD , especially cross server, allows the minority of players who are jerks and children and children who are jerks, to ruin the game for everyone.

 

These people act totally horrible with no repricussions. If you actually have to group with people you meet on the server, you may think twice before being a jerk. Or if you don't, you will get kicked and ignored, and soon enough, not many on your server will ever group with you.

 

LFD, mainly cross server destroys community.

 

Now an LFG tool that helps players find eachother may be ok, like what old WoW had, before LFD.

 

I think mainly people hate LFD and cross server stuff, not specifically an LFG tool.

[Jederix]

Why should bioware cater to a vocal minority and spend countless resources on a game that is doing just fine without the feature?

 

the gogo crowd really needs to settle down and realize bioware doesn't want a cross server lfd tool. they have said it countless times.

 

What is it with you and thinking you are part of some great majority? Get over yourself already.

[BloatedGuppy]

I don't really have an issue with LFD or LFG tools. People are correct, forming groups by trolling channels and "meeting people" is a lot more informal and perfunctory than idealists are painting it. I've spent years putting groups together in MMOs, and 95% of them are largely anonymous business transactions anyway.

 

I do not, however, like cross-server tools, because they ARE community destroying. Not community in the "we all get together and braid each others hair" sense, but community in the "you have a concept who the other people on your server are" sense. You bump into them in dungeons, you bump into them in PvP...whether you ever speak to them or not is irrelevant, you have a sense of them as an individual. It's especially vital for PvP servers, where having familiar names amongst your enemies is part of the thrill, and rivalries form. Take that away, and something priceless is lost, all for slightly shorter queue times.

 

So, yea to LFG and LFD.

Nay to cross-server.

Edited December 30, 2011 by BloatedGuppy

[Jederix]

but mine is proven bioware has even said the forums are a very small minority

 

Everyone knows that. But what you are doing is extending that to mean that everyone enjoying the game likes the fact there is not LFD tool. This is the fallacy part of your arguement because you have no way of knowing, outside of your own opinion, that the two things even remotely go together.

[coffeerox]

LFD, mainly cross server destroys community.

Where is the evidence of that? I've ran plenty of runs recently on WoW and I very rarely run into jerks. The only issue that I have are people who roll on off-spec items but that is a fault of the loot system rather than the people. You would think that LFR would run into a lot of social problems too but it doesn't. I've had some fun runs doing Deathwing even if it was with people outside of my server.

[Jederix]

You didn't achieve want you think you did, you know.

 

That doesn't matter. In his mind, he won. Everyone else knows different.

[Jimmc]

Everyone knows that. But what you are doing is extending that to mean that everyone enjoying the game likes the fact there is not LFD tool. This is the fallacy part of your arguement because you have no way of knowing, outside of your own opinion, that the two things even remotely go together.

 

So here are some facts. The majority is in the game enjoying theirselves.

The game is not failing yet. People will qq about anything. Until not having a lfd tool starts having a very negative effect causing people to leave in drones it is not needed.

[Jederix]

What I want is a tool that lets you "Queue" for as many instances/flashpoints as you want which then proceeds to put you in a list of people who want to do such instance/flashpoint. A group leader can then pick out the classes he wants in his group, and ideally we'd need some ability to comment on our playstyle/gear etc to help the group leaders pick what they want.

Then you might argue people will always pick the nobs with the best gear, well I wouldn't. I start loads of groups and I'd look for people that seems to either know what they're talking about, or someone that seems pleasant.

 

You make a good arguement, but this portion is telling. What it tells me is that you really don't like LFF (face it, we have flashpoints and not dungeons here) because when people are chosen randomly, it means you might not be allowed to be the leader of the group.

 

You just want to be the leader. While I don't argue with that as that may be just who you are, I do not see it as a valid argument against a Flashpoint finder.

[Flyjedi]

Not many people hating on LFG just LFD.

 

People don't want something where you press a button the game automagically matches you up with total strangers who are normally all from different servers that you will never see or talk too again, who you will barely speak with during the run.

 

No, some people DO want that, and if they do, who are you to say they can't have it?

[Jimmc]

No, some people DO want that, and if they do, who are you to say they can't have it?

 

He is a paying customer, his opinion is just as valid as yours.

[OBLCDiomedes]

We used to summon Doom Guards in Iron Forge in front of the bank while forming our raiding group for Molten Core. Good times.

[artilleryshell]

I'm going to try to reply with the answer you're seeking, re: why does the lfd tool destroy communities?

 

the answer is: It doesn't, necessarily.

 

You cite "looking for a group in general" as community building. This is a straw man attack against the position that doesn't look at the actual flaw of the tool. The flaw of the tool has nothing to do with how you get your group, but everything to do with internet anonymity.

 

If the looking for dungeon tool was based on the same server, sorry anti lfd extreme position havers, but that would not adversely affect the community one bit.

 

The core of the issue was the cross-server element. When you could not add any of the people you played with to friends, and you could not ever report any ninjas, no community development took place, regarding who was a good tank to roll with, who was a solid healer, who was a unwashed internet troll who was a total pain to run with. It didnt matter how the people in the lfd dungeon behaved; you'd never see them again and you could do nothing to hurt their reputation.

 

When all the people you play with are on your server, you have some power just by being part of the group. If the tank needs on everything then tells you to go die in a fire when you say that's unfair, well... spam general /1 "leetzorkillz is a ninja and an ******e."

 

You can't do this with cross faction, and over months and months of having the tool, combined with brainlessly easy content (tool launched in mid wraith, if i remember right), led to skyrocketing elitism.

 

 

If they implemented some on server only dungeon queuing system and don't nurf down their content too much, you won't have the community issues wow did.

[Jeweledleah]

here's another something funny for you all. do you know why Blizzard kept increasing the pool fro random LFG? up to the current system of multiple battlegroup clusters? becasue the wait times for groups didn't decrease. dps nowadays on average waits about half and hour to 40 minutes. the only people who get faster groups are healers? and tanks. which in turn breeds certain arrogance and "bow to me you insignificant dps worm" mentality. DPS, also like to lash out and act like *****, which in turn ends up discouraging any but the most thick skinned and/or douchiest tanks and healers to queue

 

if you play a dps character? you will ALWAYS have to spend more time finding a group. except.. if you cultivate a good reputation at which point tanks and healers will whisper you specifically and amazingly enough you might actually get groups faster then automated tool.

[Ellisande]

There is a perfectly viable and usable LFG tool already in the game. The issue is, people don't use it either cause they don't know it's there or since it's not the same as the LFD tool in WoW they think it sucks and refuse to use it.

 

Maybe the game should do a better job of how to use the feature that is already in game that is designed to make getting a group easier.

 

In it's current form the only tools we have available are neither perfectly fine nor decently functional.

 

If I had to come up with a Simpson's quote to describe the current state of things it would be when Ned Flanders was shaking his booty around saying, "Feels like I'm wearing nothing at all."

Edited December 30, 2011 by Ellisande

[Gazzzenn]

server only

can't drop in and out at will, perhaps some cooldown after leaving, we all know the types that drop out and just find another group to annoy....just a thought peeps not actually asking for it.

 

with that i'd be ok i'm no fan of lfd or their kind but i see no reason to thwart a version that is actually workable and suits THIS game i really couldn't care what xx game has or had this should be about how to make it work for Star Wars the Old Republic.

[Centra]

Here is the difference I see, in regards to the community.

 

In order to get a group without an "automatic AI finder" (affectionate name for WoW's LFD), you must seek out a group and convince them of why it's a good idea to bring you, meaning you likely had better be on your best behavior and respectful. This contributes to good community and kind, respectful players, which, believe me, would be very good for SWTOR longterm plans.

 

With an "automatic AI finder", there is no need to say a single word to anyone, and it's ok to treat them like the computer generated images they are. Therefore there is no community or goodwill at all, just a bunch of people thrown together that don't even like each other, much less care. This is, short term, maybe going to keep subscribers, but longterm, the game will likely find itself in wow's shoes.

 

I would only support a dungeon finder that does not allow people to get away with no interaction. The finder we have now is fine, but I would expand it to include signing under a certain dungeon or for any dungeon in a certain level range, and showing a list of people who are looking for a group for that dungeon.

 

If no one contacts you, maybe your message isn't polite enough. That wouldn't make it broken or "not working."

[WarTornPanda]

Ah, look at it this way. How many friends have you made in a local party you joined, and how many friends have you made in a warzone.

 

 

 

Option one for me: 10

 

Option two for me: None

 

Still though, the only thing I don't want is a cross sever LFG system. A local one would be fine

 

That's a totally different dynamic and hardly worthy of comparison. You don't have time to make friends in a warzone and you don't need a group of people to join one.

Edited December 30, 2011 by WarTornPanda

[AmandaBynes]

Here is the difference I see, in regards to the community.

 

In order to get a group without an "automatic AI finder" (affectionate name for WoW's LFD), you must seek out a group and convince them of why it's a good idea to bring you, meaning you likely had better be on your best behavior and respectful. This contributes to good community and kind, respectful players, which, believe me, would be very good for SWTOR longterm plans.

 

With an "automatic AI finder", there is no need to say a single word to anyone, and it's ok to treat them like the computer generated images they are. Therefore there is no community or goodwill at all, just a bunch of people thrown together that don't even like each other, much less care. This is, short term, maybe going to keep subscribers, but longterm, the game will likely find itself in wow's shoes.

 

I would only support a dungeon finder that does not allow people to get away with no interaction. The finder we have now is fine, but I would expand it to include signing under a certain dungeon or for any dungeon in a certain level range, and showing a list of people who are looking for a group for that dungeon.

 

If no one contacts you, maybe your message isn't polite enough. That wouldn't make it broken or "not working."

 

No one has said a single word in all the flashpoints I've joined besides "lol" occasionally after deaths and whatnot. I'm sure Bioware would *LOVE* to be in WoW's shoes honestly. They are still by and far running the most profitable MMO. Companies exist to make money, not to make sure you have a safe haven away from "jerks" on the internet. I'm here to play a game along with others, why do I care how your days going? I have a life outside the internet for that. If I don't want to chat with you, too bad, why does that mean I'm not allowed to play?

[Haeso]

 

What are you hoping for? That people will stop and marry each other between bosses?

 

You say that like it'd be a bad thing!

[coffeerox]

This contributes to good community and kind, respectful players, which, believe me, would be very good for SWTOR longterm plans.

Actually it's the complete opposite. If you don't have the spec they want, the gear they want, the DPS they want, or if they just plain outgrown the content, they won't roll with you. Sorry but I've gone through all of this back in WoW and I have no wish to go through it again.

[evildestroyer]

anti lfg or lfd are idiots, they rather spend hours looking for parties and love to annoy people with their LFM or LFG spam in chat.

 

People say join guilds, well that works sometimes but what if your guild mates already did flash points earlier in the day? then what?

 

People say you make friends and get to know each other if you look for yourself but hell, the parties i went to from general chat spam we never even spoke at all.

 

People say spam general chat, well 1st off, general chat is by zone and cause of that spamming doesnt even work half the time and we had to cancel the FP because we couldnt find another healer or tank.

 

And what you think will happen in a few months when most people are 50? What about the new people to the game, it will be even harder to find parties without a LFD/LFG tool.

 

Rift did it right in its LFD tool, sure you meet ******es but hell you meet ******es in your own server or guild too. The only difference is when you meet those idiots you wont see them again.

[Deavyin]

Looking for Dungeon and Looking for Raid are eventually required. The reason is that eventually, everyone gets fully geared up from those dungeons and no one does them anymore. In the very early days of WoW, this is what happened to me and eventually I rage canceled only to pick the game back up later.

 

This is exactly what happened to me in WoW. I didn't play for a while and when I got back in (around TBC time) no one was doing the vanilla raids anymore as they had progressed on to the TBC raids. I couldn't find a group to do those raids because I wasn't geared properly and I couldn't find a group for the Vanilla raids, reliably, because no one wanted to do them anymore. So, I would sit in Ironforge for upwards of 2 hours Spamming "Hunter, LFG, PST" and eventually I got so pissed off I canceled my subscription and didn't play again until WoLTK. I only joined back up when I heard about the LFD tool and guess what: F'ing loved it. I could log in for a couple hours, get a couple groups for instances and log back out feeling accomplished. Talk about a novelty.

[AmandaBynes]

This is exactly what happened to me in WoW. I didn't play for a while and when I got back in (around TBC time) no one was doing the vanilla raids anymore as they had progressed on to the TBC raids. I couldn't find a group to do those raids because I wasn't geared properly and I couldn't find a group for the Vanilla raids, reliably, because no one wanted to do them anymore. So, I would sit in Ironforge for upwards of 2 hours Spamming "Hunter, LFG, PST" and eventually I got so pissed off I canceled my subscription and didn't play again until WoLTK. I only joined back up when I heard about the LFD tool and guess what: F'ing loved it. I could log in for a couple hours, get a couple groups for instances and log back out feeling accomplished. Talk about a novelty.

 

No offense, but you obviously made up at least part of this story. "Vanilla raids" would NOT gear you up for TBC raids. The gear was on a whole different level. "Vanilla raid" gear would be the same as low level TBC EARLY questing gear. Gearing up for TBC raids (or any new content raids in general) were done through crafting (kinda) and dungeons/heroics. I do agree about being able to log in and be productive almost right away due to the LFD tool though.