Change gear back to the way it was before 6.0 please...

[Jamalzero]

I recently came back and within 5 mins of playing I don't like the new system... its basically a credit sink... I preferred it when the "armoring" has the set bonus and not the actual "shell" of gear. Does anyone else prefer this over having the Armoring???

 

I mean before you put a MK-(whatever) into your shell and you upgrade your adaptive armor as you go and upgrade augments as you go and not have to replace the MK at all if you bought/crafted the highest one...

 

Now I have to either not use augments or constantly craft MK slots and constantly replace my gear which is tedious and quite expensive to maintain my min/max damage/heals/damage absorption... Honestly I hate this new system for this reason alone...

 

when i started collecting the new gear and noticed when i ripped the amorings out and put it in my adaptive gear and saw the set bonus was gone and instead on the shell i ripped it out of i was livid and asked chat does it ever just go to the armoring and found out it doesnt... why would you go from armoring based set bonuses to shell based??? I know back in the days of EV/KP/EC being the only operations that was the case but after it was changed i loved the fact i wasnt restricted to one armor and had to constantly upgrade MK slots when swapping gear. this is now annoying as wit was back then. please change it back...

[ZionHalcyon]

I like gear better now tbh.

[OlBuzzard]

I like gear better now tbh.

 

the new system (while I still hate the RNG for purchased items) … is definitely more alt friendly !

[phalczen]

Augmenting gear is unnecessary until you have the set bonus pieces you want. You can also get away with mk-10 rating 228 purple augments from the 5.0 era for the most part. (236 and 240 legendary augments from 5.x were nerfed hard and can be avoided.)

 

Amplifiers are unnecessary until you have the item modifications you want at item rating 306.

 

All gear is legacy bound, which bypasses the need to have a collection of augmented legacy shells.

 

Every boss drops personal loot, so you will never go through a flashpoint or operation and not have anything to show for it.

 

The majority of shells and tacticals (not every set, and not always the BiS for every advanced class) can be direct-purchased if RNG has been unfair to you.

 

However, you are absolutely 100% right that it is a huge credit sink, much larger than we've ever had before. Also, RNG won't ever go away.

 

"Spoils of War" still has more advantages over Galactic Command and definitely more advantages over ossus gearing.

[Phazonfreak]

I also like the gear much better now mostly because it is all legacy gear and can be freely collected and exchanged between all of your characters. It makes your legacy feel much more like a family than the underdeveloped family tree ever did. I only wished that collecting and exchanging items would be made much easier with an updated UI that supports it. A legacy gear window so to say.

 

Yes, there are immense credit sinks, but you only ever need to tinker with augments, amplifiers and mods in shells if you have the tactical and armor sets that you need to compete in endgame and want to run ranked PvP and the newest Operation. You don't need anything of that for any other content in the game.

 

While not perfect and still with some minor annoyances, especially when it comes to unsatisfying rng results, I much prefer this over 5.0.

[ZIMMOZMAN]

New gearing sytem is the best mmo gearing imo. Amps may be a credit sink but you can just wait till you get a mod with the amp you want drop from loot for free or only re roll to 50k cost then trash that mod, if you got nothing you want and wait for another to reroll amps at a cheaper price.

 

Maybe, play more then 5 mins.

[Tsillah]

The new gearing system is what stopped me playing for 5 months and then come back and avoid group content like FPs and Operations altogether.

I have 13 alts and they are all fully geared including set bonuses and augments. Most of the augments were done before they changed the conquest rewards. In fact I had all my alts in 306 gear within two weeks.

 

It's incredibly alt friendly yes. But it's also incredibly boring and endgame content is unrewarding. You don't get better rewards for doing harder content, but you do still get repair bills for wiping in HM and NiM. Why? What's the trade off?

 

I prefer going back to 4.0 with gearing myself in that regard.

 

Gearing is too easy now and therefore doesn't feel like a reward. I am a person that is reward driven when it comes to repetitious content. So now it's not rewarding anymore I stay away from endgame content. I play in an entirely casual fashion right now because gear is just an afterthought now and amplifiers is just a lazy RNG system to take credits out. There are many other things you could do like making them craftable like augments, but the added problem with the RNG system is that most of the amplifier stats are useless. When you're a healer there's essentially one you want. The rest is bs.

And even if you don't go for spending and just waiting till you get the right one on a mod, it's still almost 100K to rip that mod and it's still an RNG fest that keeps you busy for the sake of RNG. When you see through that, it's just annoying. It's a fake system and there is zero reward for skill.

 

Progression raiding had progression gearing attached to it for good reasons. Now they took that out of it cause you're geared to BiS without ever having to step foot in an Ops. But you still have to pay repair costs? That was a trade off towards the rewards you got in the past (you know better rewards) but not anymore. So why take the progression gearing out of hard content but not the repair costs?

The reason is that 6.0 is all about credit sinks. That's their main system going into the new expansions, mixing futile RNG with credit sinks.And it's so obvious to me that it takes the fun out of it. That's why I stopped playing the parts of the game I used to play the most.

 

I get that people like gearing up their 107 alts for reasons that are certainly not needing that gear to beat content, but the flip side of it being so easy is that it also loses value and without that value there's no reason. I have a lot off HM and NiM achievements. Not all but a good number of them. So in the past redoing those ops meant that you could gain extra gear for your alts or better gear for your current character. That gives you a reason to redo content after beating it initially. Now I don't see the point anymore because once you've done something a few times the novelty wears off and you move onto something else. For an MMO it's important that you have a replay value of content so that there is an active player base for that content.

Progression raiding is a very small base now compared to what it was and well PvP has had that issue for a long time as well. We got a new Ops with 6.0. For whom? That seems like a big effort for a small group of players. And there's little reason for many people to go there and part of that is that you don't need to go there for better gear.

 

So I wonder how it's viable for this game to make content that does take a good amount of resources and effort, but impact so small a part of the player base? I'm glad for the people who play that content, don't get me wrong, but I'm just confused about why there are no rewards that make that content worthwhile.

[ZIMMOZMAN]

But it's also incredibly boring and endgame content is unrewarding.

 

There is your problem not the gear system once fully geared on all toons there is no rewarding endgame to a degree.

[Tofu_Shark]

The things I hate about the new system is all the gear juggling before you get your BiS gear and RE'ing everything you don't need afterwards. I also miss the old set bonuses and hate swapping out tacticals for different situations. It is otherwise OK. There are an awful lot of sets that are subpar options though. There is typically an unequivocal best set bonus for each class and spec. Tacticals don't add many more options, there is typically a tactical best for single targets and another for multiple targets.

 

Sorry OP, you're going to find a lot of people are quite happy with the new gearing system or at least ambivalent towards it.

Edited May 21, 2020 by Tofu_Shark

[xordevoreaux]

I like gear better now tbh.

 

Me, too. Much better.

[xordevoreaux]

I prefer going back to 4.0 with gearing myself in that regard.

 

I have 98 toons on my main account and 168 toons across all 5, so NO THANK YOU.

I much prefer the new system.

[Aulus_Claudius]

In some ways it's better, in others it's worse. Overall I like the new gearing system, though, especially after starting to play WoW again on the side - things are much better here. That said, I think anyone who supports or opposes every single change made in 6.0 gearing is not being entirely honest with him-/herself, because the changes went in very different directions in terms of accessability.

 

The good: What I really like about the system is that I always favored a gear-free, purely skill-based system. Only once gear is made a non-factor can you have a truly skill-based game where a new player signs up for an op and knows, if he gets out-DPSed by a veteran player, that it's because the veteran just played better and not because he grinded more or had access to gear the new player could never hope to get his hands on. That's a good thing!

 

Locking gear behind NiM ops was always a double-edged sword: those who could get it didn't need it and later always complained the content was too easy because they were BiS and the bosses were tuned for less, while those who needed it to clear the content had no way of ever getting it. I'm glad that's long gone and that everyone can now get good gear - players are now only held back in end-game content by their own experience and skill, and that's how it should be.

 

Also, alt-friendliness. A very good thing! No more farming left sides for 50 characters.

 

The bad: insanely, obscenely expensive credit-wise. Never before did we have an expansion that cost this much, even adjusted for inflation. Far from solving the overinflation problem after the big credit exploit, the current gearing system serves only as a game-money paywall keeping new players from achieving best-in-slot gear while barely putting a dent in the accounts of people who've been making and saving credits for years (or who exploited back then). My guild often jokes about BioWare getting a kickback from credit sellers being the reason for the new system. While I don't think that's actually the case (who knows?), it illustrates how bad it's gotten that people would even think that.

 

Also, "play your way" was a lie, especially for DPS: Of all the sets out there, they only balance specs around one set and tactical which are widely regarded as best-in-slot. There are a very few exceptions where you have a choice between two within a couple percent DPS performance of one another, but even then there's usually one regarded as "the best." They haven't even tried to make the others viable with one sole exception (Veteran Ranger). The only place they got it right was for tanks, where sets have different strengths and weaknesses and you can even optimize your performance by switching them out from boss to boss if you so choose. That, however, leads us to...

 

The ugly: One thing any gearing system should always strive toward is equity in time and resource investment so that no one or two classes are unduly burdened while others get gear relatively easily. Unfortunately, with the Dxun HM and upcoming Dxun NiM sets not only are they going full-on regressive in terms of gating their gear behind content not everyone can do, it's also heavily RNG, the sets drop really rarely, and they're absolutely essential for certain classes just to compete for a slot against others in a raid group. Currently, PT tanks are most affected, being completely non-viable in Gods NiM without their Dxun set, but Jugg tanks will be even worse off come the next major patch because they're currently a bit behind the other two in terms of viability and are finally getting the buff they need... but in the form of a set only available in Dxun NiM or by dropping tens of millions of credits at the Kai Zykken slot machine.

 

So while I ultimately like the changes and certainly would not want it to go back to pre-6.0 (and no Ossus ever again, please), they have a long way to go and are making questionable decisions on how they implement new gear sets that are non-optional for some classes because they come in lieu of much-needed buffs.

Edited May 16, 2020 by Aulus_Claudius

[Soljin]

I like the new gearing system.

The new system provides some diversity in builds though they need to go much further in character build diversity since high performing players are still locked into a BiS template. I still think they need to move towards a PoE style perk system before they will see multiple top builds emerge.

 

This system is very Alt friendly which suits this game.

 

The gear expense is an issue but seeing as purchasing items off the CM and selling them is the easiest way to get credits they now have a stealth Pay for Advantage scenario going...that's not likely to leave this is an EA controlled game after all.

 

I think if they increase build diversity options that allow complex synergy with certain gear sets they will really have a great thing. I would love a PoE type system where you are collecting all kinds of sets and items to use different builds. Having set bonuses back we are a step closer to build diversity.

 

With the game being limited by the engine and the tab target system the only way to keep the game interesting is character, gear and spec diversity and this system has moved in that direction a bit so its a good thing.

[DawnAskham]

Overall I'm ambivalent to the system, though leaning negative - especially when taken in totality with everything else.

 

Progression to 306 is unrewarding - there is very little reason to do anything but run the easiest content over and over, tossing aside one piece of gear for another with a +2 irating improvement through 30+ levels of useless garbage.

 

No progression available through completing more challenging content, 306 is the max and available from some of the easiest content in the game, so why bother with more challenging content that also carries the risk of failure with high repair costs?

 

Crafting totally screwed - requiring players to use ludicrous amounts of time and material to craft 30+ irating levels of useless garbage to progress through a heavy and very low RNG process when 306 gear can be obtained for free by running stupid easy content was and is a massive failure.

 

Scaling the vast majority of the game at sub max level and using stat caps devalues a lot of gear, buffs, consumables, and benefits obtained through things like collecting all datacrons and completing all class / companion stories.

 

Set distribution is uneven across the board - some classes can easily get their BIS set from reward boxes while others will almost never see a useful piece in a reward box, same with vendors - some can buy exactly what they need while others must run the same very narrow content over and over for an abysmally low chance while hoping a piece shows up on the RNG vendor.

 

Amplifiers are a gigantic credit sink, as are extraction costs (especially when gear hits the gold levels) - not an issue for me personally, but I hear lots of complaints from newer players in my guilds.

 

Changes that would alter my opinion...

 

Massive adjustments to crafting - remove all the sub 290 items and / or remove every 'exotic' or group content / conquest material from everything sub 290 while increasing RE chance.

 

Scale everything to 75 and balance content such that solo / entry level / SM stuff is easily doable in gear provided by the story and / or crafted with basic crew skills materials.

 

Cap gear ratings such that solo / story content (and basic crafting) only goes so far, with harder content providing access to higher ratings / crafting schematics / items to RE for schematics (doesn't have to be massive differences, but there should be some incentive to do harder content).

 

Put all sets on the vendors OR put every like for like set across all classes in the same acquisition mode.

 

Fix reward boxes / dropped rewards such that class /discipline controls items dropped, no more getting healing sets in reward boxes while my discipline is set to dps nor getting hilts when on a tech class.

Edited May 16, 2020 by DawnAskham

[Soljin]

^^^

Your ideas are basically to move SWToR back to a more traditional MMO format which I don't agree with.

 

SWTOR is easily a better single player RPG than it is an MMO and I think they should focus on a system that benefits both solo players and group minded players. Make "hard" content for both and give more plentiful rewards for harder more time consuming content but don't remove access to players with less time.

 

Of course I am making an assumption (apologies if my assumption is not correct) that you are coupling "harder" content with group content which has nothing to do with difficulty and more to do with patience and social skills.

 

Bringing back gear driven social casts to MMOs shouldn't really be on the radar imo.

Edited May 16, 2020 by Soljin

[OlBuzzard]

Your ideas are basically to move SWToR back to a more traditional MMO format which I don't agree with.

 

SWTOR is easily a better single player RPG than it is an MMO and I think they should focus on a system that benefits both solo players and group minded players. Make "hard" content for both and give more plentiful rewards for harder more time consuming content but don't remove access to players with less time.

 

Of course I am making an assumption (apologies if my assumption is not correct) that you are coupling "harder" content with group content which has nothing to do with difficulty and more to do with patience and social skills.

 

Bringing back gear driven social casts to MMOs shouldn't really be on the radar imo.

 

The simple fact is that MMO games are evolving … (thankfully) ! SWTOR has embraced and made some adjustments accordingly. Not all of them good. Fortunately it seems as though we are seeing some positive things with 6.1.1

 

Hopefully we will see some more positive stuff with companions … SH's … new content … etc.

 

The way this "break" ( the 2XP … etc) has impacted the game is also very positive.

 

Still a few more projects that need attention (see Lhancelots thread on PvP) … A LOT of good stuff to be thankful for right now.

 

To the team: Thank You ! Very much appreciated !! I hope that you and your families are still doing well.

[ForfiniteStories]

Same. I thought I'd give SWTOR one last try, and within a few hours I was reminded as to why I quit in the first place, or at least one of the reasons as to why. I remember gearing up and PvPing with my army of alts around 4.0. Now I barely managed to gear my main alone. ESO has a far better gearing system than SWTOR, and it's alt-friendly too, and it respects your time (and money.) SWTOR is too caught up in the past, but truth be told, I don't remember seeing a gearing system this bad in older MMOs either, like WoW even.

 

Of course, even if they were to change the gearing system to something better, far better even, the underlying problem with the gearing system is that they keep changing it. This time, however, I think such a change would be necessary.

 

Augmenting gear is unnecessary until you have the set bonus pieces you want.

 

Does anyone have the bonus set they want? They are all literally dung. And the only Tactical and Set that I found at least somewhat decent among the trash was recently thrown in the trash too. They completely gutted bonus sets this "expansion." You are now weaker and less efficient than you were before, and you have less character. Fun!

Edited May 17, 2020 by ForfiniteStories

[Ylliarus]

Please, no. The new system after 6.0 is a thousand times better. Going back would be a huge setback to the game, please, no. We finally have a decent system to work with. It's incredibly alt-friendly, makes customizing so much easier and offers up a lot of choice for variation in class buildup. I really love the new system and especially the pace you are able to gear up your toons. We haven't had an alt-friendly system like this for years, why would you want to ruin that by going back to something that was universally hated by players? Edited May 17, 2020 by Ylliarus

[AdrianDmitruk]

Overall I'm ambivalent to the system, though leaning negative - especially when taken in totality with everything else.

 

*snip*

 

A big giant negative that you omitted is the sheer tedium of inventory management once you do have your gear.

 

Deconstructing 20+ items after *every* FP is a big chore, and if you dare to actually play the game instead, soon you will be interrupted by "inventory full!" after every boss, and then have to ask the group for bag clearance. Even though it's a universal problem so most people understand, it's still easy to feel shame for slowing the group down. Even toons that start with empty bags will encounter this before they finish the flashpoint weeklies.

 

I know the legacy cargo bay got an expansion with 6.0, but tbh our main inventory bag should have been expanded to two or three tabs as well, just to handle the sheer amount of crap that the 6.0 gearing system throws at us. Coupled with a much larger deconstruction window, at least then we could have a hope of finishing our playing session before having to empty the bags.

 

Better yet, an auto deconstruction filter option, with settings to deconstruct anything less than 306, deconstruct anything without gold amps, etc. would make the 6.0 gearing system 100000% better.

 

I play 15 alts but only needed six gear sets, so I do appreciate the advantages of the new system, but once my toons are geared the sheer hassle of dealing with inventory overshadows anything else. I find myself almost exclusively pvping again simply because PVP drops less gear in more condensed form (crates that you don't have to open immediately). Hell, I know people who don't even bother opening the deconstruction window--they just throw gear on the ground, destroying it.

[BelorfinSiana]

I just want to be able to BUY max level mods from the vendor, like the good old days. Not this RNG crap.

 

There's too much emphasis on item rating over the actual stats. Why do some tank mods have higher Mastery than Endurance? Why do some dps mods have higher Endurance than Mastery?

Edited May 17, 2020 by BelorfinSiana

[CrazyOldMystic]

The new system has several flaws. First as pointed out with the new system augmentation becomes a problem. The only reason augmentation has lasted this long is, you spent a ton of resources or credits, got your custom gear auged out the end. Now not so much, now they risk turning augmentation into a problem with this system of theres. If there worried about people moving mods/enhancements around with the armoring. Then simply attach the bonous to all three mods. The armoring, the Enhancement, and the mod. Not the shell

 

The second problem I have with it, and given the gear rewards ive seen, its clear they want to get rid of custom gear. They want to go to stat gear where we can not move mods around. A terrible idea given how insanely unreliable this games ap tab is in cut scenes. Also from the beginning custom gear was one of the smartest unique ideas this game ever did. I came from live swg, but quickly fell in love with the idea of custom gear.

 

The third problem is it feels as though its an attempt to get pvpers to do ranked pvp. As thats where your going to find the best gear drops if you pvp. There moves on ranked have been one of the worst chapters in swtor pvp history. People like me have no time for arenas. So now if you want the better gear ranked it is.

 

The more I mess around with this new gearing system the more it feels like a gigantic cattle prod up my ***.

 

Lastly the randomness of it. Its just a fracking mess. No other words needed. To put something together I need propper pieces. A perfect example would be yesterday. I got a mod that was higher item level I put it. Guess what it was NOT a commando mod. Instead, it was a vanguard tanking mod. Emphasis on Endurance. Wiped out my crit stat and mastery stat to a much lower level. I mean wth is that?

 

 

As for what direction they should go. The problem is as it always has been. On the one hand you have people who go way out of control with alts, demanding that things should be made easier. Then you have the people who bum rush the game end content at supersonic speeds and say is that it? So devs try to come up with creative solutions like this. Well, it needs to be tweaked. The old-style worked for me because guess what I have a life then star wars for fun

 

I suggest you take step one and add the bonuses to the armoring, mod, and enhancement for each piece of gear not the shell. Two you have to recognize that for the decent size population of pvp we perfer warzones. Not huttball not arenas. We should have access to the higher end gear. I could go over why but the problems with arenas have been pointed out a thousand times over. Lastly, all reward gear should be custom with mods not stat gear that is useless. I have told you this a thousand times since launch developers, get it through your thick skulls. If it is not custom it can not be upgraded, if it can not be upgraded then it is a useless piece of **** to me. Not to put too fine on it, but why in all the world have you not made all weapons in game custom yet? This is way overdue.

 

I am not saying this to be negative but the problems with your game are creeping up. To be honest I do not want to see any more new-fangled gearing systems in the game. If this is what you want ok. At least tweak it as suggested above so it IS useful. Not just a RNG mess, that it currently is. The thoughts of one player. For I have no flocks of sheep following me around.

[phalczen]

You don't get better rewards for doing harder content

 

I don't believe this is correct. I've gotten set bonus shells from first boss of Hard Mode EV, yet I have been in plenty of last boss Master Mode Hammer Stations that haven't dropped anything. My experience has clearly been that harder content is much more likely to drop end game gear.

 

Also, I don't think I've ever seen the "Wings of the Architect" drop from SM DF.

[xordevoreaux]

They want to go to stat gear where we can not move mods around.

I want to know how you arrive at your conclusion here.

 

All mods in all modded gear end-game at 75 can be freely moved around. Stick mods, armor, and enhancements wherever you like.

 

If you're referring to the small period of time from 70-74 where mods are slot-locked, that range of levels doesn't last long. But level 10 -70, you can buy any green mod off a vendor on fleet and stick it in any shell of any slot type you want.

 

If you're referring to level 75 slotless Onderon drops from renown crates, you can't tell me you've never, ever, melted a ton of < 75 mods and enhancements. They drop all the time, as do modded gear from those very same crates, as does even more moddable gear out of conquest completion crates. Halfway through an op, I've plenty of them.

That isn't the behavior of a company hell-bent on getting rid of custom gear.

 

And not just armor, but weapons.

 

When 6.0 was still on the test server, I specially complained about how weapons were modless, and I wanted to keep the shell of my cartel market weapon that I'd paid cartel coins for, but couldn't because none of the weapons dropping were moddable.

 

Bioware, rather than work to make appearance slot items for weapons, immediately changed that to where end-game gear weapon drops are almost always moddable.

That also isn't the behavior of a company hell-bent on getting rid of custom gear.

Edited May 17, 2020 by xordevoreaux

[DarthSealth]

Whilst I’d agree this system isn’t perfect for reasons outside of actual gearing, since of level sync. However I do think this is the most MMO-RPG you could get if you’re a choice related player which most prefer, choosing what you want.

 

No 6.x isn’t perfect but I’d rather non-perfection to 5.0 abysmal system and to be frank this system has made the game far more popular and populated even more than 4.0 which was quite populated but struggled to keep the users.

 

So I’d much prefer pops more frequently for activities, dead guilds being revived and in general the game striving prior to when it was dying. Then you got the F2P/Preferred lesser restrictions which help keep player base afloat by using them as filler in group content.

 

5.x was dreadful.

4.x was nothing short of dreadful too. I call these two eras NGE/NPE.

[CrazyOldMystic]

My conclusion which pointed out at the end of my statement was the opinion of one player, is based on a few things. I am still getting gear as a reward for level 75 that is NOT custom, as in I can not move the mods because its straight up stat gear. Players like myself have been asking for them to make all gear and weapons custom since launch. This has not been done, why I do not know. This leads me to, if it makes you feel good, speculate that they want to move the game away from custom gear. In my opinion would be a bad idea.

 

I also stated I am not looking for them to come up with a new system. Just tweak it the way I pointed out. The tweaks does not hurt balance, do not make it harder or easier, and solve a few issues. At the core the gearing system remains the same.