Why does concealment still have evasion roll.

[sinfulace]

Please explain the logic of giving them more damage evasion then almost every class in the game combined?

[sinfulace]

yes im mad

[Lhancelot]

Please explain the logic of giving them more damage evasion then almost every class in the game combined?

 

I am just waiting for them to get nerfed into the ground. Will be glorious, I am sure.

[Evolixe]

Please explain the logic of giving them more damage evasion then almost every class in the game combined?

 

Well they don't otherwise have much of any defensive abilities

Without roll immunity operatives would take a nose dive in general viability as far as PvP goes

[AndriusAjax]

If you focus an Op, half their GCDs are spent evading via roll and/or healing. So they can't do much else. Compare that to a Mara (or basically every other class) who gets to have their DCDs working while they work on offense. So if you take god roll away, like the person above said, they'd get blown up in a second.

 

Here's their dcds:

Dodge (~35s-1m cd)

Shield (30s cd)

[w/ utility] Pugnacity (2m cd, with a reset every 3m)

 

Evade rolling is kinda what they do. Removing it would be a complete rework of the spec.

Edited May 6, 2020 by AndriusAjax

[sinfulace]

I'm just a salty sorc who's tired of my dots being removed from evasion and my leech death field burst being evaded by roll.

[abhaxus]

Part of the frustration comes from the roll animation ending 1 or 2 tenths of a second before the immunity does. With lag it becomes really difficult to gauge when you can attack after roll.

[septru]

I'm just a salty sorc who's tired of my dots being removed from evasion and my leech death field burst being evaded by roll.

 

at least they aren't good enough to reflect it.

[RodneyMcNeely]

The problem with Concealment (and DPS operatives in general) is that they have too many tools in their kits.

 

Even in the hands of a mediocre player, they can tank for a bit, deal out heavy burst, pull off good sustained damage, and self-heal quite well. Not to mention that - between their stealth and high mobility - they can be a pain to catch up to.

 

With a competent player in the driver's seat, they're a nightmare and can do in a 1v1 what no other class can. Their ability to keep a player from turning around while snared/immobilized is just the icing on an overkill cake.

 

I don't mind them being powerful. I just think they need to have a weak spot, like every other class/spec. And they really don't.

 

Personally, I'd take away the self-heals.

Edited May 6, 2020 by RodneyMcNeely

[Lhancelot]

The problem with Concealment (and DPS operatives in general) is that they have too many tools in their kits.

 

Even in the hands of a mediocre player, they can tank for a bit, deal out heavy burst, pull off good sustained damage, and self-heal quite well. Not to mention that - between their stealth and high mobility - they can be a pain to catch up to.

 

With a competent player in the driver's seat, they're a nightmare and can do in a 1v1 what no other class can. Their ability to keep a player from turning around while snared/immobilized is just the icing on an overkill cake.

 

I don't mind them being powerful. I just think they need to have a weak spot, like every other class/spec. And they really don't.

 

Personally, I'd take away the self-heals.

 

I agree.

 

I rather see them keep their damage over keeping all their "tools." They have been unkillable for far too long.

 

Now, they are running with high burst and even decent sustained damage. They don't need to be unkillable on top of that.

[abhaxus]

I think the equalizer needed is for all classes to be able to use med packs every 90 seconds, regardless of combat. It's silly to me that only stealth classes can use a 35 percent heal multiple times per fight

[Evolixe]

I think the equalizer needed is for all classes to be able to use med packs every 90 seconds, regardless of combat. It's silly to me that only stealth classes can use a 35 percent heal multiple times per fight

 

I would agree, however this might create some issues with other classes that can't do this right now and are already relatively tanky. Definitely in favor, but we would have to monitor how it translates into the game closely.

[NewMhyst]

The problem with Concealment (and DPS operatives in general) is that they have too many tools in their kits.

 

Even in the hands of a mediocre player, they can tank for a bit, deal out heavy burst, pull off good sustained damage, and self-heal quite well. Not to mention that - between their stealth and high mobility - they can be a pain to catch up to.

 

With a competent player in the driver's seat, they're a nightmare and can do in a 1v1 what no other class can. Their ability to keep a player from turning around while snared/immobilized is just the icing on an overkill cake.

 

I don't mind them being powerful. I just think they need to have a weak spot, like every other class/spec. And they really don't.

 

Personally, I'd take away the self-heals.

 

I am a sin otp normally but decided to take a look at other classes. In my first arena with burst oper i nearly doubled the dps of the other players. this was pre buff. Don't know how they do in 6.1.1 but its hilarious to watch the strongest pvp class in game getting buffed again...

Edited May 7, 2020 by NewMhyst

[AndriusAjax]

I am a sin otp normally but decided to take a look at other classes. In my first arena with burst oper i nearly doubled the dps of the other players. this was pre buff. Don't know how they do in 6.1.1 but its hilarious to watch the strongest pvp class in game getting buffed again...

 

Well I'm sure your 1-match sample size is completely representative. Bc I always see Ops doing 2x more dps than competent Maras, snipers and BHs...

[Fellow-Canadian]

I am a sin otp normally but decided to take a look at other classes. In my first arena with burst oper i nearly doubled the dps of the other players. this was pre buff. Don't know how they do in 6.1.1 but its hilarious to watch the strongest pvp class in game getting buffed again...

 

The damage is strong but the class has a very high skill ceiling. It's incredibly difficult to destroy people so comprehensively unless you are against defenceless bad players. I can't see anybody stepping into this class and on their first try be so dominant. That shouldn't happen playing with competent players.

[BobMoses]

... I don't mind them being powerful. I just think they need to have a weak spot, like every other class/spec. And they really don't...

 

Ever tried double hardstun?

[limenutpen]

Ever tried double hardstun?

 

9/10 some1 breaks it for you. Operatives need to be nerfed, I would say the off heal is way too powerful, considering they have stealth.

You can see it is a broken class cause even in all tournaments they have to be put in a separate bracket. Way too much a broken class since a few years.

[tharlainmar]

9/10 some1 breaks it for you. Operatives need to be nerfed, I would say the off heal is way too powerful, considering they have stealth.

You can see it is a broken class cause even in all tournaments they have to be put in a separate bracket. Way too much a broken class since a few years.

 

He said double hardstun, not double sap/mez/flashbang

tournaments dont apply for regs or ranked since they are put into a different bracket for being strong as a 1v1 class

[septru]

Operatives need to be nerfed, I would say the off heal is way too powerful.

 

Personally, I'd take away the self-heals.

 

It's times like this that you realize half the people on the forums have no idea what they are talking about.

 

Operative hots heal for 5k-7k a tick. In total, for their whole duration of roughly 18 seconds, a 2 stack probe kolto probes heal for 20-30k healing. That. Is. Nothing.

 

Over their whole duration, operative passive hots heal for less than the average 1 GCD attack. Powertechs can do 30k filler attacks. Hell, one basic attack will do the same amount of damage as the healing from one kolto probe tick.

 

Honestly, these operative QQ threads have been around since the beginning of the game with the same garbage players complaining all day long. But if you're going to complain about how strong operative's are, at least complain about the right things.

Edited May 9, 2020 by septru

[Evolixe]

The added 6% damage reduction probably mitigates a lot more damage than the HoT heals, tbh.

[NogueiraA]

1 - The self heals needs to be removed from Operative AND Mercenary DPS.

2 - The utility that makes Operative's hard stun 30sec cd needs to be removed, with some alacrity you can hard stun every 26 secs, that's extremely broken.

 

The immunity on roll is needed for survivability, without it the class will be just free kill.

[abhaxus]

Honestly anyone saying Merc and op need self heals removed has just destroyed any credibility they have.

 

The problem people have with operatives is entirely due to poor implementation of roll. Due to alacrity and net code, you have to wait at least 0.2 seconds after the end of roll animation to attack an operative. And rolls exacerbate desync so they make operatives untargetable in certain fights.

 

Making roll animation ignore alacrity would help the first problem. The cooldown already does, it's the animation that doesn't. Maybe make it a 1m5s moving cast instead of an instant ability.

[benmas]

1 - The self heals needs to be removed from Operative AND Mercenary DPS.

 

 

people who think a class having the ability to heal them self is the most overpowered and broken thing ever are just wrong and probably haven't actually played the class at all.

 

of course if the time machine should ever be invented then you could travel back in time to say season 4 and try play a DPS mercenary with barely any heals.

[UltraFlashStar]

Immobilize, immobilize, immobilize. If you have it - trauma, trauma, trauma.

 

Defense Screen in 6.0 gets broken by just about everything. Dodge has a long CD. Rolling and self-healing are the only solid defenses Scoundrels have. If they removed self-healing or nerf it then that’s like 1/3 of their defenses neutered.

 

Imagine if Scoundrels still had Underworld Medicine as DPS.

Edited May 9, 2020 by UltraFlashStar

[AndriusAjax]

The issue with these threads are that the people who want to propose changes are generally not intimately familiar with the class.

 

For example, Snipers and Marauders annoy me. I can't ever tell when I can and can't immobilize/cc them, and I waste my stuns trying to. It's obviously bc I suck, and also bc I am not very familiar with those two classes. But before I jumped into a forum to propose changes, I'd be smart to study them a bit...

 

And that's the thing; Half the people calling for drastic changes (like remove roll immunity and remove self heals) are not at all familiar with what that would do to the class/spec. They just know that roll immunity and self heals are annoying. So they come in here and say "remove it, its OP."

 

Am I saying remove Snipers cc immunity? Of course not, bc I have no idea how it would truly affect the class - I can assume... a lot. I just hate it. And I need to study them. {hint: That's the solution QQers}

 

So all that said, the real problem is that there are too many Ops right now. And it stems from their immediate popularity after 6.0.

 

Imagine 5 PTs in a warzone (and you actually don't have to imagine it, its happening). People will eventually call for them to be toned down as well. And they are entirely too easy to play for that kind of output. Ceiling and skill cap needs to be considered. Juggs skill cap is super low; ceiling is as well. Snipers ceiling is very high; skill cap is as well.

 

And there is something to that... I'd recommend making concealment spec harder to play in terms of damage output. There is definitely skill in staying alive as a Concealment Op. Knowing other classes, when to roll, when to reflect, etc, is a big part of their survivability. But putting out damage is a bit simple atm. I wouldn't mind a reworking of some skills to make their burst not so easy to call upon. That's the only change even worth exploring imo, and I'm not even sure its warranted...

Edited May 10, 2020 by AndriusAjax