Conquest lost its shape and purpose

[robertthebard]

This is not about how ****you**** earn conquest for yourself. It is about comparing different playstyles and acitvities.

 

It is exactly about how I earn Conquest, because how I earned Conquest flies in the face of what you continually claim. It also comes right back to my initial point: It doesn't matter what you think about how others earn Conquest. Nothing they do prohibits you from earning your goals, and the guilds that have been "winning", are going to continue to do so. Nothing about how I play the game changed because "Conquest". My Agent, that just continued to run SoR speaks volumes about your assessment of the game's population's behavior, you've missed the mark, by a couple thousand light years. People making Conquest due to cumulative earned XP did not start here, it started quite a while back.

 

The only observable effect is the reduced demand for crafting materials...

[Ylliarus]

...I said that massive increase in conq made by people and guilds is explained via menial garbage seller tasks and Planetary missions. People make 300-400% more conq than they used to a month back, ok? You making just about as much conq now as you used to a year back does not explain a sudden 400% increase.

 

You have no data nor evidence to prove that the increase is because of garbage sellers. You have absolutely not a single piece of evidence that points to that being true. And no, what you think is not a valid argument, it has to be verifiable in the game. I or another player have to be able to go into the game, test your evidence and get the same result as you do.

 

I did not sell garbage a single time during last Conquest and the one before. Instead, I did the Dantooine event, heroics, PvP and Flashpoints. I managed to reach 350.000ish conquest points on 1 character by the end of each event. That is where the massive increase you speak of comes from, people doing the content they have always done. Because queues pop as they always have, more frequently even if you ask me. Heroics and dailies areas are as populated as always if not more. The game overall appears more active and alive. How can that be a bad thing? That people play content they enjoy?

 

At this point, Stradlin, you really have to ask yourself why you're dragging this dead horse of a thread forward. People like the new changes, you have to accept that people simply like what Bioware did to the Conquest system. It's a bummer you have a problem with it, but just because you have a problem with it doesn't mean everyone else has one as well. On the contrary, players love the new system. So just stop arguing, because you're not going to convince anyone that you're right. The devs aren't going to listen to you, especially since they see the overwhelmingly positive feedback regarding the Conquest system. You're not going to change a thing, no matter how hard you try to argue in this thread, you will not achieve anything by arguing in endless circles.

 

Stop trying to police other people's playstyles. Stop trying to force people to play a certain way. Play your own way and mind your own business.

Edited May 13, 2020 by Ylliarus

[BigDRC]

Because, dare I say...he is arguing just to argue, even when people point out the flaws in his thesis, he changes it, at this point it is laughable that the mods haven't stopped it, he is actually breaking the rules, but they haven't stepped in, none of the community managers have, it's a *********** joke at this stage, a very bad meme. Why for the love of sith has this been allowed to continue, can one of you guys , supposed managers, or mods actually answer this, instead of hiding? **** it if i get banned, it's gone beyond a joke a this stage, they need to get off their *** and do something

 

The only other reason I can think of that they are so against the new system is that somehow they were profiting from it - ie if fewer people were doing it crafting mats were more expensive, etc. Pure speculation on my part but it is strange to seem so vehemently against it when it seems to have such a positive effect on the game...

[Psychopyro]

I stand corrected. I had to actually look that up. Apparently double xp has nothing to do with Conquest Points. Zero.. .

 

Actually it does.... to a point (it also has side effects)....

 

A lot of people are leveling up alts due to Double XP.... Gain 5 levels (which is repeatable) goes all the way from 10 to 70. The rate of gain is faster than it would normally be.

 

Gain a Renown Level. Again, you're getting XP twice as fast at this point which means you're dinging this twice as fast.

 

While not a direct result of 2x XP, people leveling up gathering and crafting skills is a side effect, which is going to have people hitting that craft 50 and harvest 5 nodes more often as well....

 

People are also probably bypassing most side quests as well, bunching story quests fairly quickly (which is repeatable).... And since they're running from planet to planet faster, they're getting slayers as well.

 

So while it's not a huge effect, it is a decent bit of effect.

 

Also I'm not really sure again what the big deal is.... Any points after 50k are wasted for the most part. The same guilds that were winning before are still winning now. Yea people can get more alts to 50k, but the only real thing that hurts is crafting mats, which if I may point out, these people farming for those mats are doing it faster as well and on more alts, so even if PPU goes down, they should still be netting more mats... Yea it may cause a price drop, but lets face it, prices naturally drop the longer something is out anyways...

 

Does it suck PvP/GSF get less points for time, maybe.... But as I've pointed out before, the devs have to balance those points against people going into PvP/GSF and essentially ruining it for the people who enjoy that. If PvP/GSF are made the path of least resistance for points again, it's going to cause those players to freak out again. The vitriol was horrid in the original conquest... Anyone remember "PvE Heroes"? And that was tamest slight at people screwing up PvP/GSF matches... I know several PvP players that moved on and will NEVER return because of this.

[Stradlin]

Actually it does.... to a point (it also has side effects)....

 

A lot of people are leveling up alts due to Double XP.... Gain 5 levels (which is repeatable) goes all the way from 10 to 70. The rate of gain is faster than it would normally be.

 

Its just that you can easily count all this stuff. Character dings that repeatable objective 13 times along the journey from 10 to 75. 13 x 2125=27.6k conquest.

Do your first couple of heroic mission of the day. You have now earned more conquest than all "Advancment: gain 5 levels" dings from 10 to 75 sum up combined.

Give a fresh companion 5 gifts or so. Place 5 deco. Do a little crafting. Click an Amp or take a taxi. Again, more conq earned than 10-75 ding rewards brought.

 

These things, all combined, are drops in ocean when compared to massive amounts you make via planetaries.

 

Renown we just spoke about couple of posts up.

 

Actual XP->Conq? Test it yourself. Log in to a new day and spend 90 secs doing the mission rock and a hard place.See how much conq you get from rewards and how much conq you get via xp and double xp. (Spoiler: you get 15650 conq from listed rewards. You get 16.7k total. Xp and double xp combined are something like 1100 conq out of 16.7k.

 

 

 

So while it's not a huge effect, it is a decent bit of effect.

I def. agree it isn't a huge effect. However, since this stuff can be turned into numbers with absolute ease, we can actually show and tell quite a bit, instead of having to settle with " decent bit of effect"

 

 

 

Also I'm not really sure again what the big deal is.... Any points after 50k are wasted for the most part. The same guilds that were winning before are still winning now. Yea people can get more alts to 50k, but the only real thing that hurts is crafting mats,

 

 

Well, there you go. Boldened bits is the big deal. There are plenty of people who want to and are now bringing like 30 characters to conq target a week with some ease->They can now do this due to planetaries and menial bits giving such a huge amount of conq. WZ and PvP been nerfed(!) and Ops and FPs are approx where they used to be. So everybody who likes this playstyle (earning lots of conq fast to help themselves and their guild) has one and only one sustainable activity for doing it in this new, quite exclusive conquest. All other activities operate with scales of the old conquest.

 

If you do care how much conquest your guild makes and do wanna help them out,(You wanna make sure it reaches high yield this week. You wanna have your guild lvling up. You wanna make sure your guild wins the planet. ) then you have one and only one activity available that is so superior to all the rest that doing anything besides planetaries can feel like wasting your time. I wanna help my guild. Why should I spend 30 mins doing grp content for 20k conq..when I can earn four times as much doing planetaries for 30 mins?

 

Conquest is a unique "currency" that has huge communial undertones. It is overarching across multitude of veryu different playstyles. Very different people liking very different things can both help and build the guild they are in by doing their seperate favorite activity. Its just that now, only one activity brings in the big numbers.

 

 

If you play one character and aren't in a guild(or dont care of xp they get), then it doesn't matter.For you. Of course, it matters a huge deal for game as a whole.

 

 

 

Does it suck PvP/GSF get less points for time, maybe.... But as I've pointed out before, the devs have to balance those points against people going into PvP/GSF and essentially ruining it for the people who enjoy that. If PvP/GSF are made the path of least resistance for points again,

 

If all activities and playstyles were even roughly equal, then why do something you dislike for conquest? Tie winning a match as part of earning good conquest(like it used to be) and this issue goes away almost entirely. Even if you speedrun through planetaries, they will provide you with content for 4 hours or something.We quite quickly approaching daily max. time spend online here for most ppl.

Edited May 13, 2020 by Stradlin

[Stradlin]

You have no data nor evidence to prove that the increase is because of garbage sellers. You have absolutely not a single piece of evidence that points to that being true.

 

Open misison log (L-key on your keyboard) Open conquest-sheet of the mission log. Browse the various activities listed there. Pay attention to which things are fast and easy to do and give lots of conquest upon completion. You are now able to see how one can earn 400% more conq /week than they used to.

 

Since clearly, you've figured this necessarily isn't the case at all, maybe you could tell me how every single guild in top-10 lists is making so much more conq than they used to? Howcome people bring 30x characters a week to conq target now? What enables guilds and characters to do this? This new conquest system left almost all playstyles out of it. Planetary missions and the menial tasks in fleet. Those got included. Those bring you 400% more conq than anything did previously. More or less all other activities operate within the boundaries of the old conq system.

 

 

And no, what you think is not a valid argument, it has to be verifiable in the game. I or another player have to be able to go into the game, test your evidence and get the same result as you do.

I or another player have to be able to go into the game, test your evidence and get the same result as you do.

 

Nothing from my part in the OP is some guesstimate when we speak of what earns sick conq now and what don't.

Here:

Pls note, I don't actually know how to play Sin well. It is very likely you can do this faster than I. You can keep at facerolling missions on planets like this for at least 3 hours/day. Do this yourself and you'll finish bit faster than I..or bit slower than I. Do ANY other type of content instead (say, Fps, Ops, GSF, PvP, Master mode chapters..) and see how long it takes to reach 50k.

 

This planetary mission grind includes over three dozen objectives. Every day. Every week. I spend 90 mins facerollingf them last week. THen I ran out of time. I was maybe..half way done at that point. Got me 220k conq.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I did the Dantooine event, heroics, PvP and Flashpoints. I managed to reach 350.000ish conquest points on 1 character by the end of each event. That is where the massive increase you speak of comes from, people doing the content they have always done. Because queues pop as they always have, more frequently even if you ask me. Heroics and dailies areas are as populated as always if not more.

Ofc, I don't know how much time you spend with these activities, but its a safe bet you got most of your conq from the heroics. Put it this way: 10 mins of heroics a day is 50k conq. You need 3-4 entire FP runs to get there via grp content. You need around an hour of pvp or GSF to get there.

 

Spend 90 mins facerolling planetaries and you sit at 200k conq or so. Now we are approaching numbers that would take flashpoint spammer or pvp'er/GSF'er the entire day to manage.

 

You've taken bit of a wrong turn here.. Is it ridiculous or great that these menial tasks essentially reduce conquest into a log in reward for one character every day? For the sake of argument, we can agree that its actually great! Like having a birthday every day would surely be great.. By far, the biggest issue now is how singular playstyle(touring planetaries) is VASTLY superior conquest to all else. If you check the OP, there's plenty of numbers highligting just how huge the difference here is.

 

 

Stop trying to police other people's playstyles. Stop trying to force people to play a certain way. Play your own way and mind your own business.

Would it be a bad thing if all the different playstyles gave roghly equal conquest? Or shold this new sick conquest be exclusive to soloable planetary mission face roll alone?

Edited May 13, 2020 by Stradlin

[Pirana]

Actually it does.... to a point (it also has side effects)....

 

A lot of people are leveling up alts due to Double XP.... Gain 5 levels (which is repeatable) goes all the way from 10 to 70. The rate of gain is faster than it would normally be.

 

Gain a Renown Level. Again, you're getting XP twice as fast at this point which means you're dinging this twice as fast.

 

While not a direct result of 2x XP, people leveling up gathering and crafting skills is a side effect, which is going to have people hitting that craft 50 and harvest 5 nodes more often as well....

 

 

Thank you for weighing in on the obvious. It's vital information that people need to know.

[Ylliarus]

Would it be a bad thing if all the different playstyles gave roghly equal conquest? Or shold this new sick conquest be exclusive to soloable planetary mission face roll alone?

 

You are contradicting yourself here and basically you're shattering your own argument, right now. The heroics, dailies and such are easier to do, so they give lower conquest points than for example Operations and higher difficulty content. With this line, you're saying one of two things:

 

1. The harder content ingame should be lowered to the same amount of conquest points that the easier content is giving.

 

2. The easier content ingame should have an increase in the amount of conquest points they get so as to match the conquest points for the harder content.

 

Either way, you've shattered your own argument into a million pieces with this. Because either you want lower conquest points for the harder content which completely defeats the message you have been repeating over and over again as if stuck on a loop. Or, you want easier content to get even more points, which also completely shatters your argument and the message you have been trying to put out.

 

This just shows that you're arguing here for the sake of arguing. There is no logic in your argumentation and you're contradicting yourself at every turn. It makes me wonder whether you're on a bet to keep a dead thread going for as long as possible and are determined to win the wager, because logic and reason are utterly devoid in every single thing you write down.

Edited May 13, 2020 by Ylliarus

[DarkGruffalo]

The only other reason I can think of that they are so against the new system is that somehow they were profiting from it - ie if fewer people were doing it crafting mats were more expensive, etc. Pure speculation on my part but it is strange to seem so vehemently against it when it seems to have such a positive effect on the game...

 

that wouldn't surprise me. in one of the earlier posts he did give out about the mats coming down in price. Personally I think it's great, just waiting (hoping) that the augs start coming down too.

[Ylliarus]

that wouldn't surprise me. in one of the earlier posts he did give out about the mats coming down in price. Personally I think it's great, just waiting (hoping) that the augs start coming down too.

 

Yeah, that's the only logical explanation for why the OP is so inexplicably triggered by this. I think he somehow profited from the previous system and now he can't anymore. That's a bummer of course, but the system isn't designed to accomodate OP's profit margins, it's designed to appeal to us all. The current Conquest system does exactly that, appeal to every part of the playerbase

[robertthebard]

Would it be a bad thing if all the different playstyles gave roghly equal conquest? Or shold this new sick conquest be exclusive to soloable planetary mission face roll alone?

 

Yes. Imagine it, everything pays once per Conquest period, but only pays ~2k CP. Gotta balance it, after all. No more "First run" bonuses, because that's "too much CP". You'll be able to quit worrying about mat prices then, although it may be because you're not making your goals every week, and don't have many, if any, to sell. The other side effect, of course, may be that you start doing what most of us here have been discussing as counters to your claims, and actually playing the game to play the game.

[Sarfux]

Yeah, that's the only logical explanation for why the OP is so inexplicably triggered by this. I think he somehow profited from the previous system and now he can't anymore. That's a bummer of course, but the system isn't designed to accomodate OP's profit margins, it's designed to appeal to us all. The current Conquest system does exactly that, appeal to every part of the playerbase

 

op doesn't care about the old conquest system. he only cares about his ability to exploit the old system. Stop getting into arguments with him on this thread, it's what he wants now. he lost all his reasoning pages and pages ago. He just wants to argue

[DarkGruffalo]

op doesn't care about the old conquest system. he only cares about his ability to exploit the old system. Stop getting into arguments with him on this thread, it's what he wants now. he lost all his reasoning pages and pages ago. He just wants to argue

 

Add him to your ignore list, this thread is so much better without him...lol

[Qouivandes]

OP started his campaign again in the PTS forums.

[xordevoreaux]

OP started his campaign again in the PTS forums.

I've rebutted him there.

[DarkGruffalo]

OP started his campaign again in the PTS forums.

 

lol, it's a bit late for the PTS forum, he should have started it before it went live...lol.

Unless they've added new changes that aren't to his liking

[xordevoreaux]

lol, it's a bit late for the PTS forum, he should have started it before it went live...lol.

Unless they've added new changes that aren't to his liking

 

More so I believe he thinks we're all ignorant and don't read the PTS forum. Perhaps he thinks he'll have a solitary platform to spout his nonsense by posting there. There's nowhere where he can make his nonsense arguments on the swtor.com forum where we can't counter him.

[Ylliarus]

I've rebutted him there.

 

I have joined your rebuttal. It seemed like the right thing to do, to show that the OP is just one single voice while there is a vast majority that loves the new Conquest system.

[DarkGruffalo]

More so I believe he thinks we're all ignorant and don't read the PTS forum. Perhaps he thinks he'll have a solitary platform to spout his nonsense by posting there. There's nowhere where he can make his nonsense arguments on the swtor.com forum where we can't counter him.

 

no where to run, no where to hide...lol

Sounds like a film tag

[EllieAnne]

I like the new Conquest since it rewards players for playing their regular game. Lord knows over the last few years BW has steadily taken away more and more rewards for regular gameplay.

 

The one change I would make is that only small guilds (like < 100 people) can do the small yield conquest, 100 to 500 member guilds do the medium yield planet and 500+ member guilds do the large yield planet.

[Toraak]

I like the new Conquest since it rewards players for playing their regular game. Lord knows over the last few years BW has steadily taken away more and more rewards for regular gameplay.

 

The one change I would make is that only small guilds (like < 100 people) can do the small yield conquest, 100 to 500 member guilds do the medium yield planet and 500+ member guilds do the large yield planet.

 

As long as those smaller guilds had the ability to choose higher planets as well. For example I'm in a guild with 140ish characters, (50 of them are 2 people's alts) and have been hitting Large yield planets each week for well over a year. So if we'd be stuck doing a medium planet only that just wouldn't work for me. I have no intention of changing guilds or doing recruitment just to fill in numbers. Quality over quantity is how I like my guilds.

Edited May 13, 2020 by Toraak

[Stradlin]

The heroics, dailies and such are easier to do, so they give lower conquest points than for example Operations and higher difficulty content. With this line, .

Seems we gotta stop right here for a second for starters. When determining how good/fast conquest some content is, time required is the most relevant way to measure things by far.

Completing a master mode Op takes lots of time. Earning 10k at the end of some 3 hour run is not particularly rewarding in terms of conquest earned. Completing a planetary heroic in 90 seconds is bit faster than completing a master mode op. You get a smaller reward, but are free to teleport right to the next one. Spend 90 minutes doing planetaries and you sit at 200k conq or so. It is quite a bit more than anything you'll get after that 3 hour hard mode OP. Ok? ok. Moving on..

 

 

you're saying one of two things:

 

1. The harder content ingame should be lowered to the same amount of conquest points that the easier content is giving.

 

2. The easier content ingame should have an increase in the amount of conquest points they get so as to match the conquest points for the harder content.

 

 

I don't know how or why you manage to bypass the time required from this equation..but somehow you do. Big picture matters. You can earn 50k conq in 10 mins with planetaries. Or around 200k in 90 mins. You can not earn 50k conq in 10 mins via any other playstyle. You can not earn 200k in 90 mins via any other playstyle.

 

Again, I ask: Would it be a bad thing if all the different playstyles gave roghly equal conquest? Or shold this new sick conquest be exclusive to soloable planetary mission face roll alone?

 

Besides the (gigantic) issue we have here with time required being ignored in your equation, you seem to have forgotten all playstyles have their kittie-gloves version and hard content. FPs and Ops come with 3 dififculty levels. Lowest is very accessible on both. Solo content has Master mode KOTET/KOTFE chapters and the tourney thing in KOTFE. Plus Star Fortress challenges. PvP has ranked. So its not like soloing=easy and grouping=hard. There's plenty of easy as heck grp content and a decent amount of challenging solo content. "Playstyle" in and of itself isn't necessarily some commentary on difficulty level.,

Edited May 13, 2020 by Stradlin

[Ylliarus]

no where to run, no where to hide...lol

Sounds like a film tag

 

From what I have seen the thread there has been deleted! So there is some action from the forum moderators

Edited May 13, 2020 by Ylliarus

[Ylliarus]

When determining how good/fast conquest some content is, time required is the most relevant way to measure things by far.

 

And this is why I will not bother to reply to your entire post, because it's all personal, subjective bias. There's no objectivity in your argument, there are no facts within what you say. All you're repeating is your personal, subjective opinion and you treat it as if it's factual, when it is lightyears away from any form of factuality.

 

Because what you say in the quoted bit is how YOU measure whether it's good or bad. It's YOUR personal method of measure. It's not how I or anyone else here measures the quality of the Conquest content. So, all you say only goes up for you and you alone. The rest does not share your opinion.

[Stradlin]

And this is why I will not bother to reply to your entire post, because it's all personal, subjective bias. There's no objectivity in your argument, there are no facts within what you say. All you're repeating is your personal, subjective opinion and you treat it as if it's factual, when it is lightyears away from any form of factuality.

 

Because what you say in the quoted bit is how YOU measure whether it's good or bad. It's YOUR personal method of measure. It's not how I or anyone else here measures the quality of the Conquest content. So, all you say only goes up for you and you alone. The rest does not share your opinion.

 

When it comes to how " good" or " bad" (=efficient) conquest something is, time, effort and difficulty involved are the only ways to measure things. Usually time and effort overlap pretty nicely. Dififculty is tough to measure and.. difficult to balance. That's why conquest has mostly ignored difficulty. Out of those three, time is by far the easiest to measure and, in practice, most important: "I have like 60 mins of playttime today and I wanna help my guild out by earning lots of conq. How shall I do it?"

 

Subjective part comes from how much tme you need to do stuff like what I show on this video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0wngSgnY1c

I'm not very good at playing Sin, so maybe you are a bit faster. Maybe you are a bit slower. What is NOT subjective is how this particular method of earning conq is by far more efficient than anything else. This has more potential than anything else. Everything except planetaries simply got excluded from this shiny new conquest. It is bit of a riot that one could actually have poker face to try and argue otherwise..while sitting on a pile of..what, 40 or so new easy fast 5k objectives that all orbit around doing planetary missions. Everything but this particular playstyle got forgotten, excluded and bypassed.

 

It is not some obscure strange playstyle veiled in shadows. Game gives you a literal things-to-do list to follow and teleporter items that take you to your missions. Those planets are there every single day. Every single conq week. People just go through that list and teleport from planet to planet. it is not difficult.

People in both conq threads are cheering about how they bring 30 chars+ to conq target now. All guilds on all top 10 boards on all servers are bringing at least 400% more conq. home than they used to.This is why.

Edited May 13, 2020 by Stradlin