Conquest lost its shape and purpose

[HuaRya]

I sorta totally get where you are coming from Stradlin.

 

Old Yesteryear Conquest: was comprised of Guildies that used to run Story/HM Ops and now go kill Battle masters and check instances on different planets for World Bosses. Other members would run groups of 16 through whatever Op had the Weekly Bonus. Alts would be used to run missions and farm mats on various planets. For some this was 20+ hour week of swtor'ing.

 

Midterm Conquest: Grind FP's, PVP, and GSF were the year in between then and now. These activities allowed you to get to know the communities/peeps that frequented those modes. If you had all your strongholds unlocked and did a little crafting a weekly would let you hit goal. An hour every other day or 2/4 hours a week.

 

These Days Conquest: log on and do a few odd tasks like decorate or give gift to companion and you are done for the week (50k). No need to bother with grouping of any kind. Less than 30 minutes for the week

[Stradlin]

There's no way you can know that. My bet is that if there were any guilds, of any size, that were reaching 90% of their weekly goal, consistently, they moved down to the next lower invasion target. I can't know that for certain, but I know that it's something I would do.

 

 

 

 

Suggesting no guilds at all made something like 7-10 mils or such is very bold thing to do... I know a number of those from 1st hand experience alone. It is true somebody who was making 5.5 mils or something either loved gambling and certain pressure or downgraded to medium. But 7-10 mils? Why not aim high? One single 200 person guild that fits this description is 200x one person pleasure barges in terms of people affected.

 

 

Sorry you don't like the point distribution changes, and the additional objectives.

 

Honestly, do you? If we look at how planetary misisons have suddenly turned into -the only way- to make huge amounts of conquest fast, does it appear like some excellent design choise in your eyes? Shouldn't other activities be in the same ballpark at least?

Edited May 9, 2020 by Stradlin

[Stradlin]

I sorta totally get where you are coming from Stradlin.

 

Old Yesteryear Conquest: was comprised of Guildies that used to run Story/HM Ops and now go kill Battle masters and check instances on different planets for World Bosses. Other members would run groups of 16 through whatever Op had the Weekly Bonus. Alts would be used to run missions and farm mats on various planets. For some this was 20+ hour week of swtor'ing.

 

Midterm Conquest: Grind FP's, PVP, and GSF were the year in between then and now. These activities allowed you to get to know the communities/peeps that frequented those modes. If you had all your strongholds unlocked and did a little crafting a weekly would let you hit goal. An hour every other day or 2/4 hours a week.

 

These Days Conquest: log on and do a few odd tasks like decorate or give gift to companion and you are done for the week (50k). No need to bother with grouping of any kind. Less than 30 minutes for the week

 

 

Exactly. Conquest was originally made into something that promoted content requiring other peoiple. It encouraged people to do stuff with their guilds (and against other guilds. ) With bracketed bit being kinda optional. System had..still has huge communal undertones -> No matter what playstyle you had, you and your guildies earned conquiest together. Ranked pvp'er, person loving Ops, pvp'er You worked towards bulding your shared home. Now, if you wish to build this shared home of yours, soloable content stands head and shoulders above all else. Either do planetary missions or help your guild far less than those busy portting from one heroic to another.

 

Now, conquest encourages you to run a literal 1 person guild instead. Long term goals with guild xp and such have turned into short term goals for any living guild with 10-20 people or more. More alone you are and less you grp with other people, more rewarding and meaningful conquest now is. - > It is a system mocking what it was once meant to be.

[robertthebard]

Exactly. Conquest was originally made into something that promoted content requiring other peoiple. It encouraged people to do stuff with their guilds (and against other guilds. ) With bracketed bit being kinda optional. System had..still has huge communal undertones -> No matter what playstyle you had, you and your guildies earned conquiest together. Ranked pvp'er, person loving Ops, pvp'er You worked towards bulding your shared home. Now, if you wish to build this shared home of yours, soloable content stands head and shoulders above all else. Either do planetary missions or help your guild far less than those busy portting from one heroic to another.

 

Now, conquest encourages you to run a literal 1 person guild instead. Long term goals with guild xp and such have turned into short term goals for any living guild with 10-20 people or more. More alone you are and less you grp with other people, more rewarding and meaningful conquest now is. - > It is a system mocking what it was once meant to be.

 

Again, what difference does it make? There is no cap on CP, so it doesn't matter how long, or how short a time it takes to make it. It doesn't matter how a player/guild gets to their goal either. Because guess what: People that like to PvP, ranked or otherwise, are still going to like PvP. People that enjoy doing group content, are still going to do group content. Are there players that are going to do it with solo stuff? Absolutely, I'm one of them, I had to give up raiding a long while back, because it' adversely affects my physical health. My stepping out didn't adversely affect anyone, and it still doesn't.

 

If you have a static raiding group, you're still going to be able to do the raids you're working on. If you've got a static pool to pull players from, aka a guild, you're still going to be able to pull players from that pool for FPs etc. It's what the guild I was in did before Conquest, and after. We didn't care about it, it's meaningless in every way except for "Look at me/us". I don't have to worry about that. At the end of the day, however, it doesn't matter how a guild mate builds up their personal target, and their guild targets, the points still go to the same places.

 

"But larger guilds..." falls flat, because we can go all the way back to the beginning of Conquest, and find posts about "but larger guilds...". This changed nothing in that regard. I seem to recall "but crafting week" threads from way back when Conquest was new. The only real difference I see between then and now is that more people can actually make Conquest, sometimes entirely on accident. Given all of the above, I see this as the real objection, after all, if everyone can get those crafting mats now, they're not going to sell as well on the GTN...

[Stradlin]

Again, what difference does it make?

There is no cap on CP, so it doesn't matter how long, or how short a time it takes to make it. It doesn't matter how a player/guild gets to their goal either.

.

In general, most of your recent posts have began with "what does it matter", "copnquest doesn't matter", "it won't mean anything "and "nobody cares". Based on ferocity with which people "defend" this new conquest, it clearly matters a great deal for them. And it matters for me. Maybe we could for starters reach a conclusion that conquest just isn't something you care about. Which contradicts you being in this thread at all but hey.

 

Again, what difference does it make?

There is no cap on CP, so it doesn't matter how long, or how short a time it takes to make it. It doesn't matter how a player/guild gets to their goal either.

I guess this applies to all currenciers and rewards them. Maybe even IRL too! "There is no cap on how many dollars you can own, so so it doesn't matter how much you earn."

 

Conquest is something with really strong communial undertones. Been that way from day1. It is what you use to build the home you share with your guildies. The ranked pvp'er in your guild, person who likes OPs, one who is into FPs, and the guy who loves doing planetary heroics all the time all bring in same, shared currency for building your shared home. Just that now, the guy grinding soloable daily planetaries brings 400% more than anyone else.

 

In addition, there are tons of people now who bring 20, even 30 characters to target every week. Whcih aspects of game allow them to do this and which wont? - Question that most certainly matters for them.

Edited May 8, 2020 by Stradlin

[DWho]

In general, most of your recent posts have began with "what does it matter", "copnquest doesn't matter", "it won't mean anything "and "nobody cares". Based on ferocity with which people "defend" this new conquest, it clearly matters a great deal for them. And it matters for me. Maybe we could for starters reach a conclusion that conquest just isn't something you care about. Which contradicts you being in this thread at all but hey.

 

 

I guess this applies to all currenciers and rewards them. Maybe even IRL too! "There is no cap on how many dollars you can own, so so it doesn't matter how much you earn."

 

Conquest is something with really strong communial undertones. Been that way from day1. It is what you use to build the home you share with your guildies. The ranked pvp'er in your guild, person who likes OPs, one who is into FPs, and the guy who loves doing planetary heroics all the time all bring in same, shared currency for building your shared home. Just that now, the guy grinding soloable daily planetaries brings 400% more than anyone else.

 

He didn't say Conquest doesn't matter. His question, and point, was why does it matter to you that he gets to his conquest goal. It impacts you not at all (other than reducing what you can sell conquest mats and encryptions on the GTN for - which is starting to look like the whole point of your argument). Your argument started out as I can't get CQ points as fast as Player X and has morphed into how the "challenge" has been removed from some guild of nebulous size reaching an arbitrary point total. Pretty much every time "challenge" is brought up it is a backdoor reference to rewards. So if your issue is rewards, just come out and say it so everyone knows where you really stand and stop beating around the bush.

[robertthebard]

In general, most of your recent posts have began with "what does it matter", "copnquest doesn't matter", "it won't mean anything "and "nobody cares". Based on ferocity with which people "defend" this new conquest, it clearly matters a great deal for them. And it matters for me. Maybe we could for starters reach a conclusion that conquest just isn't something you care about. Which contradicts you being in this thread at all but hey.

 

 

I guess this applies to all currenciers and rewards them. Maybe even IRL too! "There is no cap on how many dollars you can own, so so it doesn't matter how much you earn."

 

Conquest is something with really strong communial undertones. Been that way from day1. It is what you use to build the home you share with your guildies. The ranked pvp'er in your guild, person who likes OPs, one who is into FPs, and the guy who loves doing planetary heroics all the time all bring in same, shared currency for building your shared home. Just that now, the guy grinding soloable daily planetaries brings 400% more than anyone else.

 

No, it hasn't been. I'll call back to my first post: Except that I've been making my CP w/out entering group content since it's introduction.

 

Could be that's been true all along too. I was taking a closer look at some of this this morning:

 

Win 1 Ranked PvP match. 7500 points. Daily Repeatable.

 

Voss Weekly. 10,000 points. Daily Repeatable. The Voss Weekly is 4 quests. One of those quests will pay an additional amount, to one character, once a day.

 

Curious, that. It's also the same as it was before these changes, except maybe the reward. I can't say on that as I didn't spend any time worrying about it. It said "do this", and I did it. Today is the first time that I've ever really studied what it does, because, at the end of the day, it really doesn't matter. How much, or how little CP you make has no effect on how much or how little CP I can make. Some of my toons will blow this target out of the water, as I progress them through whatever story I'm playing on them. My Assassin tank has more than doubled this CP target since it was locked at 50K multiple times, because I wasn't playing the CP, I was playing the game.

 

You see, Conquest has always been misnamed. It's not Conquest at all, it's PvE to the top. This has been the thing with it since it's inception, with some weeks even being doable by simply logging in, and crafting a bunch of stuff. Hey, check it out, you can still do that. What exactly is being conquered to make "conquest" a suitable name for what we have? Is the opposing faction locked out of playing in a zone controlled by a guild? See Aion's Fortress sieges, where each one has an instance that you can only access if your faction controls the fortress. Are the guilds collecting revenue from everyone that plays in their sector? See Rappelz Dungeon ownership, where the guild that owns the dungeon can collect a tax from everyone that plays in it, and these taxes are automatically taken out of the drops in both of the currencies that drop in there.

 

No? How much are guilds PvPing against each other to gain control of these zones? What's that you say, they aren't? Well then how is this "Conquest". It's a bit late in the game to complain about it being able to be achieved through strictly PvE, whether solo or grouped up, and way too late to complain about it being solo-able, since crafting is not a group activity, but it was very definitely a way to get one's Conquest done.

 

So that just leaves one thing, the crafting materials that one gets from getting their Conquest. Are your GTN sales down, but you didn't want to use that as the reason to complain?

[Stradlin]

^ On previous page, he literally told conquest doesn't matter.

 

Is there some particular reason why planetary missions should give 400% more conquest than most other activities? You truly have to ask and wonder what the problem here is? One singular activity giving 400% better rewards than others doesn¨'t register as curious to you?

 

Would it be a bad thing in your books if other activities gave as much conquest as planetary missioins do? In what ways would the game suffer from this?

Also, check OP and ctrl-f for " gravity"

Edited May 8, 2020 by Stradlin

[robertthebard]

^ On last page, he literally told conquest doesn't matter.

 

Is there some particular reason why planetary missions should give 400% more conquest than most other activities? You truly have to ask and wonder what the problem here is? One singular activity giving 400% better rewards than others doesn¨'t register as curious to you?

 

Would it be a bad thing in your books if other activities gave as much conquest as planetary missioins do? In what ways would the game suffer from this?

Also, check OP and ctrl-f for " gravity"

 

What's the reason that they shouldn't? Except that I know what the answer is: But my GTN sales are down, BW needs to fix this so that I can continue to make tons of money selling those mats.

[Stradlin]

What's the reason that they shouldn't? Except that I know what the answer is: But my GTN sales are down, BW needs to fix this so that I can continue to make tons of money selling those mats.

 

 

 

Its like we aren't even talking same language here.. This..is exactly what I am asking?I am sying OTHER THINGS should give conquest comparable to planetary missions. Read the boldened bits again or something..I dont know man.

Edited May 8, 2020 by Stradlin

[robertthebard]

Its like we aren't even talking same language here.. This..is exactly what I am asking?I am sying OTHER THINGS should give conquest comparable to planetary missions. Read the boldened bits again or something..I dont know man.

 

The problem is that we are speaking the same language, but you want to ignore parts of the total equation. "Do this weekly" means that you are doing multiple quests to accomplish the task. I used Voss, where the weekly is 4 quests. So, if there's any issue at all, Ranked PvP, which pays 7500 for one win, is paying too much.

[Stradlin]

The problem is that we are speaking the same language, but you want to ignore parts of the total equation. "Do this weekly" means that you are doing multiple quests to accomplish the task. I used Voss, where the weekly is 4 quests. So, if there's any issue at all, Ranked PvP, which pays 7500 for one win, is paying too much.

 

Yeah. Lets talk about that total equation and the big picture. It takes you 10 minutes of planetary heroics to reach 50k conquest. How long does it take to reach 50k conquest in ANY OTHER ACTIVITY? PvP included. Do it. See how long it takes you of ranked pvp, gsf, warzones, flashpoints or operations to bring a character to 50k conq. It can not be this difficult.

 

After that one character, difference grows even grerater. In a situation where player feels like bringing more than one character to the target within that same day. Pvp'er or GSF pilot is done with his 7500 daily win. (assuming he won) Now, matches bring 1500 each. Planetary mission tourist can keep dinging juicy 5k rewards, mission completes and orbiting slayer objectives for quite a while. Supplement with CZ and Section X weekly.

Edited May 8, 2020 by Stradlin

[robertthebard]

Yeah. Lets talk about that total equation and the big picture. It takes you 10 minutes of planetary heroics to reach 50k conquest. How long does it take to reach 50k conquest in ANY OTHER ACTIVITY? PvP included. Do it. See how long it takes you of ranked pvp, gsf, warzones, flashpoints or operations to bring a character to 50k conq. It can not be this difficult.

 

After that one character, difference grows even grerater. In a situation where player feels like bringing more than one character to the target within that same day. Pvp'er or GSF pilot is done with his 7500 daily win. (assuming he won) Now, matches bring 1500 each. Planetary mission tourist can keep dinging juicy 5k rewards, mission completes and orbiting slayer objectives for quite a while. Supplement with CZ and Section X weekly.

 

It helps your case if you don't start out with a fallacy. It hurts your case when you do. Planetary slayers are daily, one and done until tomorrow. The same for Daily zones, the same for Weekly. Most weeks, prior to this update, the same was true with most of the crafting objectives, such as Dark Projects, one per day. It's my first week back for this system, but still Dark Projects are one per day, and the Inventor is still infinite, per 50 items you craft. But you won't be doing that in 10 minutes either.

 

FPs will pay for every mob you kill, at a higher rate than just regular Heroic zones. The same is true for Operations, if players aren't actively trying to skip them. So again, I'm left believing that the only real issue the GTN.

[OlBuzzard]

It helps your case if you don't start out with a fallacy. It hurts your case when you do. Planetary slayers are daily, one and done until tomorrow. The same for Daily zones, the same for Weekly. Most weeks, prior to this update, the same was true with most of the crafting objectives, such as Dark Projects, one per day. It's my first week back for this system, but still Dark Projects are one per day, and the Inventor is still infinite, per 50 items you craft. But you won't be doing that in 10 minutes either.

 

FPs will pay for every mob you kill, at a higher rate than just regular Heroic zones. The same is true for Operations, if players aren't actively trying to skip them. So again, I'm left believing that the only real issue the GTN.

 

Hmmmm

 

Interesting observation.

 

I really have been reading this … from time to time. And I've came to the conclusion that there is something else at the heart of this matter that OP is after.

 

GTN ????

 

Hmmm interesting. There is one item on the GTN that has completely tanked in pricing …. but still.

 

IMO … we'll never get to the real matter at hand. Most of the negativity about the changes in conquest IMO are not justifiable. Most seem to like what we have right now ! (Probably one of the better patches we've seen in recent history of the game... NOT THE ONLY good one … just in RECENT history).

 

The team has done well on this one! Not done with all of the improvements needed … but this one is welcomed ! (in my opinion ).

[Stradlin]

Planetary slayers are daily, one and done until tomorrow. The same for Daily zones, the same for Weekly. Most weeks, prior to this update, the same was true with most of the crafting objectives, such as Dark Projects, one per day. It's my first week back for this system, but still

 

FPs will pay for every mob you kill, at a higher rate than just regular Heroic zones. The same is true for Operations, if players aren't actively trying to skip them..

 

Spend little bit more time back in the game and actually try out the things you speak of. I bet you'll see what I mean. By the sounds of it, the sheer magnitude of these differences hasn't been seen first hand yet.

 

I spend 90 mins doing planetaries just now. You know, ones I can do again every single day. Nothing else included in here. No crafting, companion gifting etc. Just soloable planetary missions. I did CZ weekly and half of Ossus weekly. On top of that, I did few missions from each of the vanilla planets. Didn't touch Makeb or any stuff more recent than that. (Besides Ossus and Cz)Did some Slayer x 25 dings.. Did no Slayer x 50 dings. I'd have plenty of stuff to do today still, I just ran out of time. I could do some more planetaries til I ding those x 50s. I could do any and all of the content from Makeb and onwards. I could finish that Ossus weekly. Do Sextion X. Loads of this stuff is left. If you wanna truly hit it out of the park this way, don't spend too much on any planet at one go. Don't slowly grind your way through Balmorra heroics or something like that. Do couple of missions and move on. If there is some juicy weekly ding you really wanna get, let it happen another day.

 

90 mins is prolly a pretty good educated guess on typical average time spend online/day/player. I got 224.000 conquest from that. Most pvp or GSF matches give the player 1500. That's Four digits. That's 0.67% from of that 224.000. Try running some FPs. Try doing GSF or PvP. Try doing anything that involves other people. See what you get done in that 90 mins, conquest-wise. I can promise you it isn't 224.000 that you'd get from planetaries.

 

That's almost 4.5 characters to conq target. See if you can get 4 characters to conq target within a day in 90 mins of any other content this game has.

 

GTN ????

 

Such a huge portion of my posts here includes repeated requests for OTHER CONTENT TO BE MADE EQUAL TO PLANETARIES IN TERMS OF CONQ GIVEN. Recon that's very connected to GTN? I Thought that somebody really likes conquest as game mechanic and doesn't like seeing it broken is this alien?

Edited May 8, 2020 by Stradlin

[Darev]

This may be my last planned post in this thread.

I don't understand the reason behind the OP continuing to rail against the conquest changes.

To me it seems to be an argument JUST to argue.

 

OP wants GSF conquest to be brought closer to the newer objectives based on time spent / points received.

 

I totally understand that.

 

But ask for that.

 

Don't ask to take the new stuff away.

 

It's the TONE of the posts of yours I read that is asking for that.

 

I don't think anyone will care if GSF suddenly gets a boost in points.

I sure don't.

 

But I do care when a long thread like this with no clear reason to exist, beyond arguing for argument's sake, can be viewed as a method to undo parts of the conquest update that most people posting here are in favor of.

 

Just be honest and clear about what you're asking for.

It helps avoid confusion.

[casirabit]

This may be my last planned post in this thread.

I don't understand the reason behind the OP continuing to rail against the conquest changes.

To me it seems to be an argument JUST to argue.

 

OP wants GSF conquest to be brought closer to the newer objectives based on time spent / points received.

 

I totally understand that.

 

But ask for that.

 

Don't ask to take the new stuff away.

 

It's the TONE of the posts of yours I read that is asking for that.

 

I don't think anyone will care if GSF suddenly gets a boost in points.

I sure don't.

 

But I do care when a long thread like this with no clear reason to exist, beyond arguing for argument's sake, can be viewed as a method to undo parts of the conquest update that most people posting here are in favor of.

 

Just be honest and clear about what you're asking for.

It helps avoid confusion.

 

 

And the funny thing about that: Most everyone agrees that GSF/PVP/Group activities get a boost but he continues to argue so it is beginning to look like that is not really what he wants.

[Stradlin]

And the funny thing about that: Most everyone agrees that GSF/PVP/Group activities get a boost but he continues to argue so it is beginning to look like that is not really what he wants.

 

People usually set their sights on bits they find disagreeable. If you go through your own contributions that in some, any, way cover my posts or my postings here, its almost exclusively disagreeing at best and ad hominem at worst. Or to be more specific, you've spend a fairtly significant amount of time talking about me. You've def talked more about me on these forums than I have, heh. Not so much about arguments or points I make.

Edited May 8, 2020 by Stradlin

[robertthebard]

Here's the thing: Since this has been added, we have constantly been under 2x everything. I think the first place I saw it was on the launcher, while it was updating the game. On the other hand, I'm not playing any differently now than I did the last time I played, a few months back, and then it wasn't much different than the time before that, etc. I'd have to go all the way back before Conquest to get into when I was heavily running group content, and going that far back, you'd be absolutely right, since nothing paid any CP at all, it didn't exist.

 

However, "You haven't been around long enough to comment" falls flat:

 

Mobs in FPs and Operations are higher ranks than the majority of mobs outside of a few heroics, notably on Hoth, for sure, where there are a lot of Elite ranked mobs. You see, it's not that I've only played a few days, it's that I've only played a few days this time around, so far. Nothing in this topic, or your replies counters any of my arguments, including "not enough play time". This is a handy fall back excuse, but it doesn't address your fallacies about CP gain in FPs or Operations.

 

Voss has one Heroic on the Imp side that has maybe 6 champs in it, possibly 5, and another with 2. When you compare that to what's in your average FP beyond the first couple in either faction, the amount of XP available from just killing mobs dwarfs what you're going to earn, barring slayer one offs, and you're going to earn it on every toon you take into a FP, because we're not looking at rewards, just at killing enemies from the beginning to the end.

 

So, there's plenty of CP to be had playing group content. That a FP, or a PvP match pays less than a Heroic Weekly is countered by the sheer volume of CP available within the content. A run of KP is going to net as much CP as Voss weekly, by the sheer volume of mobs to kill in the Operation. All of that counts, whether you choose to ignore it or not. The listed objectives can only be done once a day, maybe some still once a week, which applies across the board, so players looking to get their Target off the list on multiple toons are going to be skipping around all over, whether they're playing PvP, FPs/Ops, or heroics, or, the shock, just playing class/planetary missions.

 

All of that is a good thing, unless you're losing money at the GTN, I guess.

[OlBuzzard]

And the funny thing about that: Most everyone agrees that GSF/PVP/Group activities get a boost but he continues to argue so it is beginning to look like that is not really what he wants.

 

Much the same way he selected a single word or (in this case... phrase) of my post to comment on.

 

BINGO !! Got 'im….

 

YUP !! There is definitely something else afoot here.

 

NO ! I wont guess as to what it is. That would be pointless.

 

Thus far several of you have posted some very sound information to which little or no sound rebuttal has been offered. (if in fact a debate is the point of the post) … IMO it was never about a sound discussion or for anyone to state facts that might challenge the OP.

 

OP was simply stating a point to be made (regardless of points of consideration to be made or accuracy) …. simply stated the new " update" or "changes need to be done away with. Their point was never to listen to anything … but simply to tell. As to the foundation for the statement … well that's been proven to be argumentative AT BEST. As for the real motivation behind the thesis …. hmmm welll… it's possible that there might some connection to the items that are being sold on the GTN and received from conquests ?? Maybe ??

 

Uncertain as to the motive and or final objective of OP.

 

It should be noted: they are welcomed to their opinion. I simply strongly disagree that the changes of conquest strongly out weigh the improvements.

[Stradlin]

@OlBuzzard, Are you gonna spend a lot more time talking about me and my motivations? There is plenty of room in my retinue if you enjoy posting about me and my posting.

 

 

 

Here's the thing: Since this has been added, we have constantly been under 2x everything.

 

Not everything. Conquest isn't included in 2 x XP.. Even if it were, it'd not change the issue of -everyhting else- being vastly inferior to planetaries in terms of conq earned.

 

However, "You haven't been around long enough to comment" falls flat:

 

Not at all. You mentioned you recently returned to the game. So give this great new conquest a proper spin. Spend that 90 mins doing planetaries and see how much conq you get. Then spend 90 mins doing - anything else- and see where that takes you.

 

it doesn't address your fallacies about CP gain in FPs or Operations.

Dude..again, this stuff is very easy to test all by yourself. Instead of just figuring out " wellp, them mobs in fp must surely be some real great conq:3" - try it out-

Np tho, I did it for you:

Random vet FP. V 1st FP of the day so it comes with an additional grp finder mission ding. Dice lands on Boarding Party. We actually do a full clear (not all mobs, but all the missions, bonus boss) very good grp, no wipes, steamroll the place. Since its a full clear, its a bit slower than usual. Surely bonus boss and all those juicy 2x xp mobs give us tons of conq, right? Borarding party via grp finder with bonus missions complete and bonus boss killed? Bit under 20k conquest in 30 mins.

 

Wanna recap a bit? Ok.

Do planetaries for 10 mins. 54k conquest.

Do daily menial tasks and one planetary mission in 4 mins. 50k conquest.

Do planetaries for 90 mins. 224.000 conquest.

Do a flashpoint. 30 mins. 20.000 conquest.

That 30 mins/20k is pretty well in line with pvp and GSF. Those will yield bit under 60k in 90 mins. Give or take. Ballpark is the same. After that first 90 mins, both pvp and GSF stop giving -anything- extra and you are stuck with making 1500/match.

Edited May 8, 2020 by Stradlin

[Jdast]

At this point, you should just macro your response. It will save you a lot of typing.

 

Posted seven days ago. I believe it aged quite well, just like that fine Alderannian Nectar I'm about to sip.

 

To extend the wine metaphor, he did redo his OP, hence the saying...'Old Wine, New Bottles.'

 

My brilliance shines brighter than the twin suns of Tatooine on the dance floor of my Pleasure Barge.

 

Dasty

Edited May 8, 2020 by Jdast

[DWho]

WARNING: Wall of Text Below

 

Since we want to discuss your "points" here we go:

 

1) "everyone doing conquest will do planetaries because it is the most efficient way" - This is a blatantly false statement. While KP farming was a thing, not everyone doing conquest was doing KP farming even though it was the "most efficient" way to get to your conquest goals. As a matter of fact, lots of people are still doing KP farming even though it is much less efficient (no idea why but maybe they like doing that like you like doing PVP). On another note, I (and the people in my guild for that matter) have played more group content since the new CQ objectives were launched than we did before because we have time to play the group content we want to play (since we don't have to worry that we will miss a small planet yield because we didn't do all the rampages on one day) not the limited number that were available as conquest objectives.

 

2) 50 K in 10 minutes - having run thousands of heroics (and I can post a screen shot of the over 3500 alliance crates I still have in my hold from doing heroics since Conquest first was a thing if you think you need proof). I know that the amount of time is highly variable and that the yields are very dependent on the stronghold bonus. I've run the fastest heroics I know of and could only match the 10 minutes on one class - Guardian which is basically the same a Jugg. An overpowered PVE class. Sentinel took almost 30 minutes (primarily because of downtime to fire defensives and the need to use the comp in healer mode for the short but more difficult heroics in Bonus area), Trooper took 30 minutes, Smuggler took 45 minutes (I don't play smuggler much so not real efficient DPS there), and Telekinetic Sage took about the same as Sentinel (all in 302 gear but not necessarily optimized rotations - which would be typical of the average player). Note that I did try this with a Healer Sage and level 50 dps (Shae - a somewhat overpowered dps companion) and it took 40 minutes as well (with lower level companions and lower tier gear, the rate you damage your opponent is the main determinant of how fast you can do a heroic). I also ran the same test on the DM server where I don't have a 150% stronghold bonus and guess what, I got less than half as much CQ points in the same time.

 

3) Dailies: heroic content is the only conquest objectives that actually has a diminishing rate of returns. The first heroic on a planet is worth ~17K, the next (on a different planet) is ~7K, number 14 is 2K (after using up all your first on the planet heroics). In PVP, match number 1 is 4K (it takes no effort to trip the infinitely repeatable medals achievement so 1500 +2700 CQ per match - I tested this and even getting blown out, I still managed to get 8 medals). Match number 2 same 4K, match number 15 same 4K, match number 36 same 4K. No matter how many "group" content objectives you complete each is the same reward as the one before it.

 

All that said, increasing the rewards for PVP is fine but having 1 warzone worth 54K CQ "to match what a heroics player can do" is not a viable solution and I think you know that. That leaves us with why do you want PVP to yield so much. It certainly isn't preventing you from getting to your personal goal or your guild goal (for the most part, there are a few possibilities where you might not get to a large yield on your own or with only a few friends). The reward difference between the various levels are not that massive so not getting to a large planet yield is not a crushing defeat. It seems to come down to the number of characters you can get to the personal goal, which is fine, but that is where your focus should be.

 

If the problem is that as a PVP player you can't get 30 characters to your personal goal then approach that. An extra daily or weekly would cover that (personally, I'd just go back to the "daily" and "weekly" being repeatable on any character you play, that would more than even the playing field since someone running heroics would only be able to run their daily once per legacy). It will likely also increase the number of people queuing for warzones that just sit in a corner or worse, throw matches, but if you are OK with that so be it.

 

So there is my evaluation and discussion of your concerns. Please answer with something other than "heroics players get too much CQ and PVP players get too little". Try to be more constructive than that. The game is built around averages, not exceptions and using an OP class, with BIS gear, a level 50 companion, and 150% stronghold bonus is not an average player

[robertthebard]

@OlBuzzard, Are you gonna spend a lot more time talking about me and my motivations? There is plenty of room in my retinue if you enjoy posting about me and my posting.

 

 

 

 

 

Not everything. Conquest isn't included in 2 x XP.. Even if it were, it'd not change the issue of -everyhting else- being vastly inferior to planetaries in terms of conq earned.

 

 

 

Not at all. You mentioned you recently returned to the game. So give this great new conquest a proper spin. Spend that 90 mins doing planetaries and see how much conq you get. Then spend 90 mins doing - anything else- and see where that takes you.

 

 

Dude..again, this stuff is very easy to test all by yourself. Instead of just figuring out " wellp, them mobs in fp must surely be some real great conq:3" - try it out-

Np tho, I did it for you:

Random vet FP. V 1st FP of the day so it comes with an additional grp finder mission ding. Dice lands on Boarding Party. We actually do a full clear (not all mobs, but all the missions, bonus boss) very good grp, no wipes, steamroll the place. Since its a full clear, its a bit slower than usual. Surely bonus boss and all those juicy 2x xp mobs give us tons of conq, right? Borarding party via grp finder with bonus missions complete and bonus boss killed? Bit under 20k conquest in 30 mins.

 

Wanna recap a bit? Ok.

Do planetaries for 10 mins. 54k conquest.

Do daily menial tasks and one planetary mission in 4 mins. 50k conquest.

Do planetaries for 90 mins. 224.000 conquest.

Do a flashpoint. 30 mins. 20.000 conquest.

That 30 mins/20k is pretty well in line with pvp and GSF. Those will yield bit under 60k in 90 mins. Give or take. Ballpark is the same. After that first 90 mins, both pvp and GSF stop giving -anything- extra and you are stuck with making 1500/match.

 

Amongst the list of things that you fail to understand, you fail to understand that,I already know how FPs and Operations function, and I know how XP/CP function killing mobs. I don't want you on my Friend's list, or I'd take you on a tour of my SHs, so you can see all the nifty trophies I have from when I was progression raiding here. "But players skip 'em all" is their loss, not a fault with the mechanics. You're not being ripped off, mate, well, at least not anywhere but the GTN.

[Stradlin]

Firstly, DWHo,its nice tnat even though you find my post disagreeable you actually argue the points made instead of talking past them and focusing on the poster.

 

 

1) "everyone doing conquest will do planetaries because it is the most efficient way" - This is a blatantly false statement. While KP farming was a thing, not everyone doing conquest was doing KP farming even though it was the "most efficient" way to get to your conquest goals. As a matter of fact, lots of people are still doing KP farming even though it is much less efficient (no idea why but maybe they like doing that like you like doing PVP). On another note,

 

This being a false statement is prolly why nobody has claimed " everyone" does planetaries. When planetaries are 400% better conquest than -anything else-, then its a pretty safe bet to say a whole ton of people are doing them though. Entire top-10 board on every planet on every server has every guild up by 400% or thereabouts. Conq given by PvP and GSF have actually been nerfed, Flashpoints and Ops earn about the same they used to I guess. Menial garbage tasks are a big part of this for sure. However, thats "only" 30-50k conq or so/day/account. So..do you wonder where all the extrra conq is coming from? Howcome guilds have 4-5 times mor now? I'd love to hear your answer to this. Double xp?

Boldened bit here is very telling though. I have no idea why either. If they wanted to farm a ton of conq fast..yeah. Planetaries.

 

 

2) 50 K in 10 minutes - having run thousands of heroics (and I can post a screen shot of the over 3500 alliance crates I still have in my hold from doing heroics since Conquest first was a thing if you think you need proof). I know that the amount of time is highly variable and that the yields are very dependent on the stronghold bonus.Guardian w Sentinel took almost 30 minutes (primarily because of downtime to fire defensives and the need to use the comp in healer mode for the short but more difficult heroics in Bonus area), Trooper took 30 minutes, Smuggler took 45 minutes..

 

Ofc it is dependable on SH bonus. SH bonus is a HUGE deal. I think its wise to assume 150% here, it is by far the most common number among people who do/like conquest. SH bonus does nothing to the massive disparity between planetaries vs all other content though. Roll with 0% bonus instead.. and all the content looks every bit as bad when compared to planetaries as it does on 150%

 

When it comes to differences in classes..Which heroics you do is a huge deal. Having right spec on your companion is a huge deal. Class matters, but far less than the missions chosen. I'm sure stealthers are by far the fastest overall. Sin in particular. I absolutely do not believe there is a 20 min difference between sentinel and guardian doing same missions. Gonna try with mine tomorrow. Did you stick with one planet til you had tackled all the missions there or something like that?

 

3) Dailies: heroic content is the only conquest objectives that actually has a diminishing rate of returns. The first heroic on a planet is worth ~17K, the next (on a different planet) is ~7K, number 14 is 2K (after using up all your first on the planet heroics). In PVP, match number 1 is 4K (it takes no effort to trip the infinitely repeatable medals achievement so 1500 +2700 CQ per match - I tested this and even getting blown out, I still managed to get 8 medals). Match number 2 same 4K, match number 15 same 4K, match number 36 same 4K. No matter how many "group" content objectives you complete each is the same reward as the one before it.

You land very far from truth here. Diminishing returns are a thing with all content, sure. Planetariers included. Its just that it takes hours and hours and something towards half a million conq earned to reach them with planetaries. Just today on my Sin tank, I spend 90 mins soloing planetary stuff. I made 224.000 conquest. I did CZ weekly, half of Ossus weekly and toured all Vanilla planets, doing mission or two on each. I did almost all 25 slayers on those planets. I did none of the 50 slayers. I skipped Makeb and any and all more recent content. (Besides that half finished Ossus) 224.000 conquest. I guess I had at least other 90 mins worth of this stuff left undone. Makeb+post Makeb stuff. Section-X, all those 50x slayers.. etc etc. Thats some sick conq on top of that 224.000! 400k? Even more? I don't even know. You have hours and hours worth of daily repeatables and combined, they bring you hundreds of thousands of conq. With GSF and PvP, you get around 4k from a match once you are done with your two daily repeatables. Two. I got like..what, close to 80 daily repeatables that orbit planetary mission running..while PvP and GSF have four daily repeatables COMBINED. And ofc, 2 of these 4 are prettty vicious - Weeklies for character. So you better be ok doing pvp and GSF on multiple characters. Wanna calculate how many pvp matches you need to do to earn 400k? And how long that would take? Something like 12-16 hours? But hey, even if its 16 hours, you still get to sleep full 8! \O/

 

 

All that said, increasing the rewards for PVP is fine but having 1 warzone worth 54K CQ "to match what a heroics player can do"

Details details. Being in SAME BALLPARK would be fine for starters. The new conq excludes any and all game content except planetaries. I don't care much if this content gives 10% more and that content 15% less.. I start caring around 400%! For the record, ofc it'd not be quite right to give 54k from each match in pvp. 10 min thing is useful in highlightingh the massive disparity involved. But ultimately, I think 90 mins is a fine timer to have ticking when comparing different activities. There, the difference is massive.

 

 

I don't remember if I suggested this for you already, but check Op and ctrl-F for " Gravity" for some additional thoughts on this.

Edited May 9, 2020 by Stradlin