How can you possible stand playing pug regs?

[Nickodemous]

Can't think of a game that regressed continuously over years in design changes on it's own gearing system except this one. Usually if a game makes a bad design change, it gets rectified. Not here. Instead, they buckle down and force the bad game design change down the player's throats even adding more newfangled game design changes on top of that.

 

I disagree here. I think the gearing system was brilliant....new and refreshing. Was it perfect, no, I will agree there were flaws but at least they made an effort to get out of the norm.....

 

Yawn....blizzard....the garbage, regurgitate, refresh group.....is that what u referring to? Do the same thing over and over expecting different results? Wait? Last I checked that was the definition of insanity.....

[KendraP]

I disagree here. I think the gearing system was brilliant....new and refreshing. Was it perfect, no, I will agree there were flaws but at least they made an effort to get out of the norm.....

 

Yawn....blizzard....the garbage, regurgitate, refresh group.....is that what u referring to? Do the same thing over and over expecting different results? Wait? Last I checked that was the definition of insanity.....

 

While I dont mind the new system per say, the failure to move FP/Ops to 75 is a mental sticking point for me, amplifiers are frankly as stupid as i said they were, and the fact that there are tacticals locked behind an RNG vendor is borderline ridiculous. On top of all that, since this is the pvp section, gearing via pvp is deplorable compared to say, spamming RR on a stealth class.

[steveerkcanjerk]

While I dont mind the new system per say, the failure to move FP/Ops to 75 is a mental sticking point for me, amplifiers are frankly as stupid as i said they were, and the fact that there are tacticals locked behind an RNG vendor is borderline ridiculous. On top of all that, since this is the pvp section, gearing via pvp is deplorable compared to say, spamming RR on a stealth class.

 

Something I feel less people are talking about as well when it comes to ops, the hm/nim's also reset daily with the new lockout system as far as i can tell making it very hard to prog. And i agree tacticals are a very shallow way of customizing your class. They are just little obvious dmg increases, oh you use weapon dmg, well stack that. Its not a sit back hmm let me think that i feel good mmorpg's do. Yeah the gearing is rough.

 

 

@lancelot I would say that attitude does exist in every game but i see it more so in tor. I do bg's every night in eso for example and i genuinely feel like my teammates are trying to win, the game are much much closer. I see the scores/dmg numbers between people. I don't think a game exsists where there is 0% of people not caring or avoiding trying to get better but it def feels much more rampant here in this game.

[Aeneas_Falco]

 

Not only this, you can't level via PVP either... Lowbies might pop, but pops become extinct once you hit mids because no one queues for PVP in any tiers but lowbies and cap level.

 

Mids is actually very active right now, at least on Starforge. Not as active as level 75 maybe, but most of the pops are 8 vs 8 and queue wait time is seldom more than 5 or 10 minutes at prime time.

 

Probably due to a population boost with the expac and lots of FoTM rerollers.

Edited January 30, 2020 by Aeneas_Falco

[limenutpen]

Normal 8 man objective based PvP remains the best PvP game mode in Swtor.

Arenas and solo ranked is to much a single level based game, kill Jugg kill Sniper kill the other two and u r done.

How much can you do this, till you are bored. The objectives bring a purpose to a game. But to each his own!

The nice things of Arenas is that most players playing them have a higher level of class ability and understanding, and even those who just started are trying to improve. The problems remain various from Wintrading, to Q-syncers, and Bots etc etc

 

Getting good games in Regular Warzones is another matter though. I usually do a weekly (ten wins) on nearly each of my eight characters every week. I get one / two good games out of each weekly server Darth Malgus. There is times like late afternoon and evening from about 4:00 till about 9:00 PM CeT time that is impossible to get a decent game.

A good game for me is something which is very competitive and comes down to the wire. Most close games come in Odessen in recent times. Huttball can be close to, especially original map and Vandin. I currently hate hutt ball cause of the air-vents not working, which if they do not fix in 6.1 might make me unsub and try another MMO.

It is up to them, I am really tired I think I wrote like six posts about air vents not working.

Edited January 30, 2020 by limenutpen

[Lhancelot]

I disagree here. I think the gearing system was brilliant....new and refreshing. Was it perfect, no, I will agree there were flaws but at least they made an effort to get out of the norm.....

 

Yawn....blizzard....the garbage, regurgitate, refresh group.....is that what u referring to? Do the same thing over and over expecting different results? Wait? Last I checked that was the definition of insanity.....

 

I don't make comparisons to WOW because WOW and Blizzard gaming never found me. I compare this gearing system to the MMOs I played before it.

 

I been on this game from launch till now, so my perspective is from experience here and I can see how someone might think this new gearing system is "refreshing" and "new" but I view it more as a shallow version of some other games gearing systems. I don't mind copying, but they had so many loose ends with launch of this gearing system and there's just far too much fluff and useless amps/gearing sets.

 

Obviously they did that to make the RNG pool as large as possible to add some "difficulty" in gearing and getting BiS across the board, but the problem here is all the useless amps and gearing sets end up never being used. So, they were added to the game just to add filler for the couple good amps and gear sets then? Just to convolute the gearing process?

 

Yeah, that's not inventive and that's not "refreshing." That's adding content with no substance or deep thought into it. Lazy. That's creating a bunch of crap that won't ever get used unless they revamp and refine 90% of the other amps and gear sets so they are viable. That's fun gearing? Hmmph, alright then.

 

I view the last gearing system they made as a gigantic wall-toss of amps/gear sets thrown on a wall to see what stuck. 90% (just a guess) of the gear sets and amps are complete garbage! They slid off the wall instantly while about 10% of the amps and gear sets were decent and stuck.

 

I mean, if I create 20 songs in the span of 2 hours, I bet one will have some redeeming decent quality to it, however the majority of them would probably be bad if I just slung as much music out as fast as possible in a short period of time and that's what I think they did. They created lots of different ideas for amps and gear sets but put no testing into any of them, which is why some are outrageously good while many are outrageously awful and useless.

 

This gearing system was poorly implemented, and honestly the changes they made so far have not improved the gearing system much at all I struggle to see how anyone can view this gearing system as refreshing, let alone complete. It's like a beta version that needs refined with lots of tweaks and attention to detail.

[Floplag]

I disagree here. I think the gearing system was brilliant....new and refreshing. Was it perfect, no, I will agree there were flaws but at least they made an effort to get out of the norm.....

 

Yawn....blizzard....the garbage, regurgitate, refresh group.....is that what u referring to? Do the same thing over and over expecting different results? Wait? Last I checked that was the definition of insanity.....

 

Im sorry but i cannot agree.

Anything that relies on RNG will not be balanced, some will benefit, others will not. As one that traditionally has a hate hate relationship with RNGesus i can say without contradiction the likelihood i will get anything i actually want from it is slim and to date im at about ilvl 290 and have yet to get one thing i want from the boxes and have had to go the long way.

not to mention that fact that the time to gear up is highly uneven between PvE and PvP as the rewards pale comparatively.

Gearing should be relatively linear for all, it shouldnt be based on RNG. If the path to it was better i would agree but in this case i cant.

I hate to compare it to other games but as much as i hate WoW right now giving us a token to buy the shells we wanted would have been much better than giving us a random shell we may or may not actually want.

[Csjbo]

I just treat pug regs/unranked like the casual PVP mode it is and not worry about whether my team wins or losses or quite frankly....what my team does. If I want a more competitive pug PVP experience I queue solos. Edited January 30, 2020 by Csjbo

[steveerkcanjerk]

I just treat pug regs/unranked like the casual PVP mode it is and not worry about whether my team wins or losses or quite frankly....what my team does. If I want a more competitive pug PVP experience I queue solos.

 

One big issue with that I have is gearing and getting items is directly tied to winning. Especially when you need more armorings for your gear, mods, etc. And no i will sit in hammer station to grind that out, I will do the content i want to do at 306 and thats pvp. So now by having players who just don't care actually hurts my progression. It literally slows me down in a casual mode. Even tholl in many many other casual modes even the losing team gets something for their participation. Shooters will do this with match bonus, others with good amount of currency. So in a weird way they made even casual regs about winning.

[Csjbo]

One big issue with that I have is gearing and getting items is directly tied to winning. Especially when you need more armorings for your gear, mods, etc. And no i will sit in hammer station to grind that out, I will do the content i want to do at 306 and thats pvp. So now by having players who just don't care actually hurts my progression. It literally slows me down in a casual mode. Even tholl in many many other casual modes even the losing team gets something for their participation. Shooters will do this with match bonus, others with good amount of currency. So in a weird way they made even casual regs about winning.

 

Winning/losing does not affect your gear progression that much, it's not like going 15-5 in regs will net you 5000 tech frags but if you went 5-15, you'd only get 2000. We're talking about several hundred at most. Armorings/mods/enchancments can come out of warzone boxes, but again....it's not like winning all your warzones will get you to 306 in substantially less time to the point where it's worth getting frustrated in regs over.

 

Ultimately, PVP is not the way to efficient way to progress for gear in 6.0. If you want gear quickly, you know what to do....but if you refuse to do the most time-efficient means of grinding gear and subsequently try to grind in one of the least efficient ways....that's your problem...not your teammates.

Edited January 30, 2020 by Csjbo

[steveerkcanjerk]

Winning/losing does not affect your gear progression that much, it's not like going 15-5 in regs will net you 5000 tech frags but if you went 5-15, you'd only get 2000. We're talking about several hundred at most. Armorings/mods/enchancments can come out of warzone boxes, but again....it's not like winning all your warzones will get you to 306 in substantially less time to the point where it's worth getting frustrated in regs over.

 

Ultimately, PVP is not the way to efficient way to progress for gear in 6.0. If you want gear quickly, you know what to do....but if you refuse to do the most time-efficient means of grinding gear and subsequently try to grind in one of the least efficient ways....that's your problem...not your teammates.

 

But it still has an effect, I did my hammer station grind into 306 and getting my set bonus. And yes is it most efficient way due to sheer amount of drops, yes. It is it enjoyable and part of the game i want to sit mindlessly and do no. I have more then put my time in on this. The tech frags are less of an issue once you get your set bonus, but the pvp crates do at least give you a item and sometimes more. (not defending its drop rates they are awful) but it is still better then 0 after a loss. Now I am cool with losing, when I see my team making a solid effort to try to win. I do understand its part of the game. But the issue is when you get that very large amount of players who straight don't care. Now that very small and tiny progression or rng chance (not really progression when everything hinders on chance) is being taken from me. Is it the most efficient no, it's not. But it is still halting for what little there is. My problem is not with the speed in which i get the items, my problem is with how me playing in a casual match reduces my little rewards even further based on wins and losses. I lose a match because dummy over here didn't want to call out the node was under attack. But i am the one who pays for it at the end. In casual games. Thats my issue. That is why people get frustrated with regs. Trust me I wish progression was faster but I still rather play the part of the game I want to play and go slowly then play another 10 hammer station to maybe get my BiS armorings.

[TrixxieTriss]

I very seldom venture in to 75 regs these days, because frankly it is a horror show. The matches I get are:

 

 

• Huttball. So many huttballs that I never, ever play.
  
• OPG. It can be okay now and then, but mostly not.
  
• Unbalanced teams. Either through shear random or by premades.
  
• Clueless people. People can not do even the simplest things now. I can end up guarding a node as a healer.
  

 

There is basically no difference in quality of play between lowbies and 75, and with lowbies I get arena pops which never happens at 75. I would queue arena regs only if it existed.

 

I have no idea how any of you can find enjoyment in this.

 

/end rant

 

 

There is less rage, desyn and lag in lowbies too. I actually have much more fun playing it because lvl 75 is frustrating to the extreme. At least with lowbies, most people try to win, they listen to more experienced players and also try to get better.

There are also much less Hutt ball matches

 

The only death match idiots who don’t play to win in lowbies are the reroll pug hero’s who think it’s fun to premade stomp lowbie learners. When they appear, they usually kill the queue in 30mins as all the learners stop playing.

 

I’ve not seen one of these guys try to help learners and if they are asked questions when solo, they are either derogatory replies or they quit the teams.

 

It’s no wonder lvl 75 is a disaster of knuckle draggers. I’ve some hope for those newbies lvling up around me at the moment. They have good attitudes and play to win and ask questions or listen to advice.

My concern is they will get corrupted by the idiots as they get closer to lvl 75 or in lvl 75 regs.

 

I do premade, but it’s to help teach people who ask to learn the class and specifically tactics and strategies to do with maps.

And it’s only two man premade. Not trinity or 3 or 4man. Then when they get the gist of it, we de group.

Edited February 1, 2020 by TrixxieTriss

[Aeneas_Falco]

Bioware should really change how warzones work so that if you lose you get absolutely nothing. No valor gain, no experience points, no daily quest progression, no progress toward gear drop, no Conquest points.

 

That might encourage more people to actually try to win.

Edited February 2, 2020 by Aeneas_Falco

[TrixxieTriss]

Bioware should really change how warzones work so that if you lose you get absolutely nothing. No valor gain, no experience points, no daily quest progression, no progress toward gear drop, no Conquest points.

 

That might encourage more people to actually try to win.

 

That only works if :

 

1. Match making works (which we know it doesn’t)

2. Maps aren’t broken or full of bugs (which they are)

3. There is a real deserter buff if people rage quit (which they will as soon as they start to lose)

4. You have some choice over what type of maps you can play

[Raansu]

I very seldom venture in to 75 regs these days, because frankly it is a horror show. The matches I get are:

 

 

• Huttball. So many huttballs that I never, ever play.
  
• OPG. It can be okay now and then, but mostly not.
  
• Unbalanced teams. Either through shear random or by premades.
  
• Clueless people. People can not do even the simplest things now. I can end up guarding a node as a healer.
  

 

There is basically no difference in quality of play between lowbies and 75, and with lowbies I get arena pops which never happens at 75. I would queue arena regs only if it existed.

 

I have no idea how any of you can find enjoyment in this.

 

/end rant

 

I have the same question on how people stomach pvp period anymore. Everyone is basically a tank because there's a million self heals and DCD's, movement abilities all over the place, speed buffs, casting on the move, heals op, guard still exists and to top it all off they removed pvp gear and pvp rewards are an absolute joke.

 

I miss the old days when certain CD's were locked to a specific spec and not everyone had a bunch of self heals and mobility/root breaker skills. You had to actually think about positioning and not run around the map like a headless chikcen because you didn't have 5 billion mobility CD's.

[Floplag]

Bioware should really change how warzones work so that if you lose you get absolutely nothing. No valor gain, no experience points, no daily quest progression, no progress toward gear drop, no Conquest points.

 

That might encourage more people to actually try to win.

 

No that will encourage wall to wall premades, even more so than we already have.

Stacking the deck isnt skill, and shouldnt be requisite to progression.

I agree winning should get more, much more in fact, but it cant be all or nothing.

[Raansu]

No that will encourage wall to wall premades, even more so than we already have.

Stacking the deck isnt skill, and shouldnt be requisite to progression.

I agree winning should get more, much more in fact, but it cant be all or nothing.

 

Premades shouldn't be allowed in regs to begin with.

[Aeneas_Falco]

No that will encourage wall to wall premades, even more so than we already have.

Stacking the deck isnt skill, and shouldnt be requisite to progression.

I agree winning should get more, much more in fact, but it cant be all or nothing.

 

That will all balance out in the end because the premades are just as likely to be on the same team as the opposite. If players are forming more premades that also means you're more likely to get premade vs premade matches than premade vs 100% pug.

 

Losses counting for nothing will force players (premade or not) to play to win, which IMO would be a great improvement over the current state of Regs, where at least half of the time that premade is more likely to be mindlessly farming numbers and ignoring Voidstar doors, calls for incoming, Huttball runners, ect. Premades these days are as likely to be the reason their team loses as they are to be the reason it wins. It's not like it was before where most grouped players were competitive and cared about wins as much as the numbers that pop on the leaderboard.

Edited February 3, 2020 by Aeneas_Falco

[Aeneas_Falco]

Premades shouldn't be allowed in regs to begin with.

 

I think there are strong arguments both for & against premades. I play both solo & in premades and think the arguments from both sides have merit. In the "pro" camp its true that playing with friends is a lot of fun, and often times more fun than pugging. You also get great matches if you run into a premade of equal ability on the opposite team, though admittedly that is not often due to population issues.

 

In the "anti" camp they're often right that premades destroy fair matchups (when they play to win at least) by either causing trinity mismatches against Pug teams or just playing as a single unit & focusing the same targets down arena style whereas most Pugs are going to be 8 individuals, each doing their own thing. The typical pugger isn't going to get peels when he's being hammered by a group of 3 or 4, and guard or heals being present is a roll of the dice.

 

Maybe the queue should accommodate both play styles on alternate days. If Sunday groups are allowed to queue for warzones, on Mondays only solo queue is allowed, with Tuesdays group again, ect. Not perfect but players who prefer to play solo would get their days of Pug vs Pug matchups and premades could still do their thing on alternate days.

Edited February 3, 2020 by Aeneas_Falco

[Eastiano]

Premades shouldn't be allowed in regs to begin with.

 

Well, this is just a *********** stupid statement. Just no...

[Lundorff]

Well, this is just a *********** stupid statement. Just no...

 

Premades should simply be paired against a similar premade. No other similar premade in queue? Too bad, guess the one tryhard premade can't play and ruin the fun for everybody else. And no I don't have any friends to make my own premade

[Floplag]

Premades shouldn't be allowed in regs to begin with.

 

No, as much as i once felt the same, that time has passed. You cant tell people they cant play with friends in an MMO.

 

What should happen is that it should balance it better. If there is more than one premade in queue put one on each side or whatever, but they arent even doing that.

 

At this point it is what it is, its not going to change. If a match is obvious a giant mismatch i simply leave, im not going to make the effort for those who wont respect it and confuse advantage with skill. If more of them were decent about it, id stay, id try harder, but certain groups you just know they are going to do everything possible to be tards about it, those are the ones ive chosen to pass on, i wont feed those egos.

[Floplag]

That will all balance out in the end because the premades are just as likely to be on the same team as the opposite. If players are forming more premades that also means you're more likely to get premade vs premade matches than premade vs 100% pug.

 

Losses counting for nothing will force players (premade or not) to play to win, which IMO would be a great improvement over the current state of Regs, where at least half of the time that premade is more likely to be mindlessly farming numbers and ignoring Voidstar doors, calls for incoming, Huttball runners, ect. Premades these days are as likely to be the reason their team loses as they are to be the reason it wins. It's not like it was before where most grouped players were competitive and cared about wins as much as the numbers that pop on the leaderboard.

 

While thats great in theory, it doesnt seem to work out that way.

I tend to almost always end up against the premades for whatever reason, very rarely do i have them on my side.

If my getting rewards out of it are tied to my somehow beating those odds more often than not, ill simply skip the content as thats not right if they cant figure out some form of balance.

 

Im not going to go into the whole damage farming this over actually playing the map, like everything else it is long past time to fix it. They can play how they want its their dime, but i wont take part in those matches or ill find a quiet corner to relax while they do whatever they are going to do and try not to dump it on someone else.

[DavidAtkinson]

Premades should simply be paired against a similar premade. No other similar premade in queue? Too bad, guess the one tryhard premade can't play and ruin the fun for everybody else. And no I don't have any friends to make my own premade

 

Don't like getting stomped by premades ? There is an easy fix: Leave the game and reque = fixed . I am solo quer and if it gets really bad to the point where my team is farmed at spawn point, I simply leave.... There is nothing to gain by staying.

Edited February 3, 2020 by DavidAtkinson

[Eastiano]

Seriously, you guys think you got it bad? Try being spawncamped by Nostrum Dolus 8 man ranked team, then we can talk about regs n premades etc...