Skipping of mobs

[Voroschuk]

You don't get anything from killing trash, and it's not that much fun fighting it. People just want to get to the boss asap to get the loot and flashpoint crates. Skipping is a game of its own, and I think that it would be cool if the devs would design flashpoints with different ways to get past the trash: you can fight it; "stealth run" it, not just by running in stealth to the boss (that's kinda boring), but by avoiding patrols, using terrain, jumps, etc; or by running asap from point A to point B and sealing the blast doors before you get overwhelmed. Instead of fighting skips, maybe designing FP mechanics around them would be more interesting. Edited August 26, 2021 by Voroschuk

[BRKMSN]

It's courteous to be mindful of other players. When you group with strangers via GF, you should just respect the standard practices. Some people might have 4-5 hours a day to play this game. Some might only have 2-3 hours a week. If rushing isn't your thing, it would be wise to form a group with likeminded players. That's what guilds and friends are for. Edited August 26, 2021 by BRKMSN

[Tsillah]

Just sat in a que for 20 mins, to get a group that were all stealth (me an Agent with no stealth) and they were skipping everything and leaving me to die.

 

i leave and que AGAIN, same thing happens.

 

There will be no third time, deleted the game and did a charge back on my card for all the stuff i bought this month.

 

Play the damn game the way it was intended.

 

If you have limited time, PLAY SOMETHING OTHER THAN AN MMORPG...SIMPLE.

It'll get worse in 7.0 with combat styles since all characters will have access to a combat style with stealth. So choose your combat styles carefully.

 

But the way it is intended has changed over time. Because of the way gearing is done now and the newer FPs being avoided mostly, speed runs are the way BW has pushed gameplay. So apparently that's the way BW intends players to play.

 

And it's not because they have little time that people do speed runs, it's because they do many of those runs because the loot is RNG. BW could easily change that but they won't. It's high repetition with RNG loot. If you want something else create your own group in chat saying what you intend to. Then hit the GF as a taxi to the FP of your choice (you can select and deselect any FP in the GF).

Edited August 26, 2021 by Tsillah

[Ricul]

People who play this game learn to loathe fighting. Mobs are everywhere.

 

Example: The quest where Zash orders you to the tomb, it is packed with enemies. Did she just leave them there? No it's to slow you down. It is solely for engagement metrics.

 

The tomb where Thanaton sends you, you go there and it's packed...doesn't even make any sense but then comes the best thing: You clear it, go somewhere else, come back and it's packed with mobs AGAIN.

 

Want to reach that quest? Fight 1000 mobs on your way there. Want to leave the place? Fight the same mobs again. There are quests where you clear a path, then the reinforcements come in and on your way out there are STILL ENEMIES.

 

And this is all done on purpose too, when you try to avoid enemies and you go arround a corner...bam...they placed them arround the corner out of sight. Sounds familiar?

 

Nobody cares about the "ludonarrative dissonance" here, the game is PACKED everywhere with mobs to slow you down. If i follow the main/planet questline now and i start a new character it takes 30+ hours to finish the main story. Ridiculous travel distances and millions after millions after millions of mobs are here only to slow down your progress.

[thefateoff]

It'll get worse in 7.0 with combat styles since all characters will have access to a combat style with stealth. So choose your combat styles carefully.

 

But the way it is intended has changed over time. Because of the way gearing is done now and the newer FPs being avoided mostly, speed runs are the way BW has pushed gameplay. So apparently that's the way BW intends players to play.

 

And it's not because they have little time that people do speed runs, it's because they do many of those runs because the loot is RNG. BW could easily change that but they won't. It's high repetition with RNG loot. If you want something else create your own group in chat saying what you intend to. Then hit the GF as a taxi to the FP of your choice (you can select and deselect any FP in the GF).

 

i left WoW after Mythic plus took over. I DO NOT DO TIMED CONTENT. i do things at my own pace.

Guess i am left looking for another mmorpg. Until they ruin that by listening to the "fans"

[thefateoff]

People who play this game learn to loathe fighting. Mobs are everywhere.

 

Example: The quest where Zash orders you to the tomb, it is packed with enemies. Did she just leave them there? No it's to slow you down. It is solely for engagement metrics.

 

The tomb where Thanaton sends you, you go there and it's packed...doesn't even make any sense but then comes the best thing: You clear it, go somewhere else, come back and it's packed with mobs AGAIN.

 

Want to reach that quest? Fight 1000 mobs on your way there. Want to leave the place? Fight the same mobs again. There are quests where you clear a path, then the reinforcements come in and on your way out there are STILL ENEMIES.

 

And this is all done on purpose too, when you try to avoid enemies and you go arround a corner...bam...they placed them arround the corner out of sight. Sounds familiar?

 

Nobody cares about the "ludonarrative dissonance" here, the game is PACKED everywhere with mobs to slow you down. If i follow the main/planet questline now and i start a new character it takes 30+ hours to finish the main story. Ridiculous travel distances and millions after millions after millions of mobs are here only to slow down your progress.

 

i just hit level 75 on my Agent and i am doing Aldreraan. Not even done chapter 1 yet. i do everything possible on a planet before moving on (datacrons, side quests, all achievements that are possible at the time)

[Tsillah]

i left WoW after Mythic plus took over. I DO NOT DO TIMED CONTENT. i do things at my own pace.

Guess i am left looking for another mmorpg. Until they ruin that by listening to the "fans"

Well, like I said, you have to choose to do that and gather people around you that are like-minded. Mind you, I also deplore this, so I get you.

 

One thing though, you may want to do things your way, but you do not get to impose this on other people. And the nature of group content is that the exception has to conform to the group and when you use the GF to find a PUG then that's where it's at.

 

That's why I say that you will have to form a group first, but I gather that you do not wish to do this. There is something, let's say unpleasant about wanting the world to conform to your wishes though. That's the part of your attitude I don't understand. You can join a guild that is casual oriented and does FP runs that they take their time for as well.

 

You do have that choice.

[Toraak]

Just play a healer in 7.0. If the group wants to kick you, for not skipping it's the groups loss, and you'll get another fast queu. I know I won't be choosing stealth on many of my characters.

[Darth-Obvious]

i just hit level 75 on my Agent and i am doing Aldreraan. Not even done chapter 1 yet. i do everything possible on a planet before moving on (datacrons, side quests, all achievements that are possible at the time)

 

Is this your first character?

 

People will play the same way you're playing early on but once they're on their 8th character or whatever they've done it all so many times they want to skip past it.

 

The other issue is that a number of people consider the combat to be too boring and too much of a slow down to engage with.

 

The solution isn't to "everybody should just fight all the mobs" but rather If you/they (the devs) want people to engage with mobs then they need to make the combat more engaging, less tedious, etc.

 

Look at games that have a focus on combat like Bayonetta or Devil May Cry. Do you see people skipping past enemies in those games? Even when looking at other Star Wars games like Battlefront or Fallen Order you generally don't see people trying to skip past enemies. Why is that?

 

Note I'm not saying SWTOR needes to have combat exactly like any of those games but maybe take a look at what gets people wanting to engage with combat in other games and why they don't want to do so in SWTOR regardless if they're playing Flashpoints, solo PVE or whatever else.

[SteveTheCynic]

There will be no third time, deleted the game and did a charge back on my card for all the stuff i bought this month.

There will, indeed, be no third time, because your account will be hard-banned, along with the associated EA account, because the presumption is that someone broke into your account and bought stuff via your card, and in return you put a chargeback.

Play the damn game the way it was intended.

 

If you have limited time, PLAY SOMETHING OTHER THAN AN MMORPG...SIMPLE.

Who died and made you the definitive reference for how people should play games and which kinds of games they should play?

[Omega]

Just sat in a que for 20 mins, to get a group that were all stealth (me an Agent with no stealth) and they were skipping everything and leaving me to die.

 

i leave and que AGAIN, same thing happens.

 

There will be no third time, deleted the game and did a charge back on my card for all the stuff i bought this month.

 

Play the damn game the way it was intended.

 

If you have limited time, PLAY SOMETHING OTHER THAN AN MMORPG...SIMPLE.

 

That's a literal admission of fraud. You can't just charge back for things you willingly purchased.

[Tsillah]

That's a literal admission of fraud. You can't just charge back for things you willingly purchased.

Heh, I didn't even realize that. I just assumed that he sorted that via CS, but upon reading his post again, I think you're right.

[Ricul]

Do you see people skipping past enemies in those games?

Those games have way less enemies and much lower ttk. Just did Illum and no joke i must have fought more trash in that one base than the entirety of my last wow leveling expiereince.

 

Once i killed the trillions of trash reinforcement droids arrived and stood 2 feet of me watching me fight the respawn. They didn't even help. Zero immersion. There are rooms where you can't see anything but enemy nameplates. The game is the worst grind i have ever seen and all the mobs have too much hp. No autohit, clunky combat, zero powerfantasy and the downscaling (wich makes gear obsolete) are all in place to spit in your face and laugh at you. It is plain insulting. This game is 10 years old now and there are still bugs from day one. Lazy, condescending devs will do that to a game.

[Templock]

Lotta people in this thread trying desperately to justify hating to play the game. Edited August 31, 2021 by Templock

[Transhade]

Back when the game came out, it was quite obvious that the map design and mob placement actually encouraged skipping mobs. This map design continued at least through crisis of umbra. Once you see the built in terrain exploits to bypass the mobs (without having to cheese anything), confronting a mob becomes pointless.

 

That being said, there are ways to do many flashpoint efficiently and quickly without skipping mobs provided the group is in sync and geared. Athiss and Directive 7 are two of my personal favorites to use Juggernaut stealth (kill everything in your path) on.

[ladyalchemist]

Hello there,

 

I never imagined I'd be someone to create a thread like this on the forums. But amazingly here we are.

 

I wanted to talk about the skipping of mobs in Flashpoints (and Operations etc). Why is it now almost always the default choice to skip every single mob that can be skipped instead of just taking them on? Even when it is by the most ridiculous methods that barely gains anyone any time or in some cases ironically the group tends to even lose time with it? And when the group whipes it can sometimes create quite the predicament as well on the way back.

 

This behaviour that is now so common among the SWTOR playerbase has completely ruined the entire experience for me. Especially when someone aggro's a skippable mob, by accident or not, there is almost always someone who complains about it. Why? Why even bother playing the game if you're so determined on skipping everything? Trying to rush through everything in as little time as possible to collect the rewards seems like a poor way to actually enjoy the game.

 

I've played the game more or less since its launch and back then this was not a thing as far as I can remember. At least not with the same magnitude of today. To see the state of things now is just frustrating for me and takes away my incentive to start up the game. Because I know when I'm doing any group content whatsoever this almost always occurs.

 

Best wishes to everyone for the new year. May the Force be with you.

 

I agree with you. This is one of several reasons that I stopped - or very grudgingly - do PUG groups in FPs. It is annoying and feels like jumping through hoops... especially when the group is fully capable of just smashing through without breaking a sweat.

[Toraak]

In truth I don't mind skipping mobs to a point, however I won't go to any length to do it. If it's more of a pain to skip then kill them, I'd rather just kill them and move on.

[krarevin]

People who play this game learn to loathe fighting. Mobs are everywhere.

 

Example: The quest where Zash orders you to the tomb, it is packed with enemies. Did she just leave them there? No it's to slow you down. It is solely for engagement metrics.

 

 

I've noticed in the (very rare) occasions where a mission gives me a specific goal (primary goal, not bonus) of killing X enemies I am much more OK with that than having a goal of "get to X location... oh yeah, we put a whole bunch of aggro trash between you and your destination". It really makes a difference what the game defines as the objective, and I think it is harmful to player enjoyment (and encourages skipping as much as possible) when you exclude the combat from the objectives. Most FPs/missions define an objective and put hurdles in your way. I think a lot of people would enjoy it more if the hurdles were part of the defined objective. The whole encounter could be exactly the same, but reword the objectives and it becomes less annoying to kill trash mobs.

[Hadsil]

I've noticed in the (very rare) occasions where a mission gives me a specific goal (primary goal, not bonus) of killing X enemies I am much more OK with that than having a goal of "get to X location... oh yeah, we put a whole bunch of aggro trash between you and your destination". It really makes a difference what the game defines as the objective, and I think it is harmful to player enjoyment (and encourages skipping as much as possible) when you exclude the combat from the objectives. Most FPs/missions define an objective and put hurdles in your way. I think a lot of people would enjoy it more if the hurdles were part of the defined objective. The whole encounter could be exactly the same, but reword the objectives and it becomes less annoying to kill trash mobs.

 

I don't like the mobs either, but in some mission briefings they do say the location you need to get to is heavily guarded or some such, acknowledging the existence of the mobs. Even then sometimes that's the excuse to send you on the mission because you can get passed them while NPC forces cannot. An NPC might say you can't get passed them, but you can respond you can because you're the best.

[Templock]

This thread gives me an idea.

 

I'm gonna go queue for Hammer Station and aggro everything.

[Neo_Psy]

Yeah it sucks for new players who were hoping to experience the story and feel of the flashpoint when all they get every time is them being dragged by the hand around enemies, through obstacle courses, balancing acts and then when cut scenes happen slapped across the face and told to "SKIP PLS" "SPACE SPACE SPACE COME ONNNNN"

 

And if you fall of that high beam balancing act or fail to do that tricky jump onto that ledge (you know the bit) the world falls apart and they are forced to clear the mobs which takes about 30 seconds to do anyway, and standing there watching the poor guy fail and fail time and time again at the jump took like 4 minutes.

 

But the silly thing is, once you get a taste of skipping the trash, you sort of become one of those rushers yourself and you find yourself tutting at the scene watchers, or scoffing at the guy who can't make the jump. It's weird how it happens.