Aeternali Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 The whole thing is a confusing mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnAskham Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 More lunacy... Agent / Smuggler healers have a tactical that is only available through crafting (schem currently on random vendor), however the materials requirements are ludicrous. 80 FP / Ops isotopes (a lot for sure - but only a million or two in GTN opportunity cost) 18 conquest materials (generally running ~3m per / starting to see some in the 2.5-3 range, still 45 million at low end) 20 legendary embers (~1 million each, so another 20 million) 15 purple assemblies (2,700 green materials, currently 10-15K each low end, so another 27 million minimum) Total - nearly 100 million or more in materials. Whoever thought this was acceptable is smoking too much crack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estelindis Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 (edited) Total - nearly 100 million or more in materials. This is just one of the many things that confuse me about 6.0 crafting. In discussing the jawa scrap price of grade 11 mats, mention was made that internal info shows many players with massive stockpiles, so they wanted to stop those players from dominating crafting in 6.0... Yet, in actual fact, only those with massive amounts of resources can afford the very expensive 6.0 crafting. A player with few resources who manages to scrape together everything needed for just one tactical... can't actually really afford to take the gamble of crafting that item on the off-chance that it sells. Because if it doesn't, that's a massive loss. Someone with a lot of resources, however, will just absorb that loss and move on. Ordinary players with not much in the way of resources are much more incentivized to sell any materials (assuming they didn't get their materials on the GTN, 'cos I think only someone with serious resources would buy every material), rather than crafting. Crafting becomes the realm of those with a lot, and providing resources is the realm of those with less. A literal class/economic split, but in an MMO instead of real life. Edited November 1, 2019 by Estelindis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsillah Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 More lunacy... Agent / Smuggler healers have a tactical that is only available through crafting (schem currently on random vendor), however the materials requirements are ludicrous. 80 FP / Ops isotopes (a lot for sure - but only a million or two in GTN opportunity cost) 18 conquest materials (generally running ~3m per / starting to see some in the 2.5-3 range, still 45 million at low end) 20 legendary embers (~1 million each, so another 20 million) 15 purple assemblies (2,700 green materials, currently 10-15K each low end, so another 27 million minimum) Total - nearly 100 million or more in materials. Whoever thought this was acceptable is smoking too much crack. Yeah I got a schem like that for sorc/sage and crafted it. Didn't have to buy any of the mats cause I had them already. From my point of view it's not as bad as it seems really. The only gripe I do have is that all of the really interesting stuff takes conquest mats that are much more limited in availability. That's something I wouldn't mind a change on, particularly with blue grade augments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ObscureEmpyre Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 I don't care to read every single comment on this thread, so I'm replying to the original poster. I agree. The crafting system in 6.0 is tremendously convoluted. I was a die hard HM / NiM raider in the past, but the game kind of fizzled out over time and most of the people I played with dropped off. I still enjoy playing once in a while. At any rate, I liked being able to craft just about anything I needed across all my toons. I still can. However, it takes way too long to gather the mats needed to craft the higher tiered items. My point is I already have a day job, and I don't feel like working a second job by spending hours and hours on Onderon and Mek-Sha gathering the necessary mats, as well as constantly logging in and out to send various companions out on crew skill missions. It's monotonous, and not enjoyable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnAskham Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 (edited) Yeah I got a schem like that for sorc/sage and crafted it. Didn't have to buy any of the mats cause I had them already. From my point of view it's not as bad as it seems really. The only gripe I do have is that all of the really interesting stuff takes conquest mats that are much more limited in availability. That's something I wouldn't mind a change on, particularly with blue grade augments. My issue is if you happen to play healing Op / Scoundrel and that is your desired tactical (I don't so I don't care), you have no way of obtaining it without spending 100 million plus in credits, whereas most classes have their desirable tacticals as random drops and on a vendor for 1 million plus some tech fragments. Even if you have most of the materials, you will forgo 100 million in opportunity cost using the materials instead of selling them to others. That just isn't remotely balanced - even if it only cost 5 million in mats to craft versus spending 1 million plus fragments it would be slightly unbalanced - but 100 million versus 1 million is orders of magnitude out of whack. This is just one of the many things that confuse me about 6.0 crafting. In discussing the jawa scrap price of grade 11 mats, mention was made that internal info shows many players with massive stockpiles, so they wanted to stop those players from dominating crafting in 6.0... Yet, in actual fact, only those with massive amounts of resources can afford the very expensive 6.0 crafting. A player with few resources who manages to scrape together everything needed for just one tactical... can't actually really afford to take the gamble of crafting that item on the off-chance that it sells. Because if it doesn't, that's a massive loss. Someone with a lot of resources, however, will just absorb that loss and move on. Ordinary players with not much in the way of resources are much more incentivized to sell any materials (assuming they didn't get their materials on the GTN, 'cos I think only someone with serious resources would buy every material), rather than crafting. Crafting becomes the realm of those with a lot, and providing resources is the realm of those with less. A literal class/economic split, but in an MMO instead of real life. So true - and I say that as someone with way more credits than I'll ever spend. I have powered through some of the obnoxious parts of crafting by spending credits, and have made it all back and then some, and yet I still find the current iteration of crafting broken, unbalanced, tiresome, frustrating, and annoying. As such, I've already quit bothering as it is just too cumbersome, time consuming and annoying - and some things just are so outlandish as to make me very angry (mostly the inclusion of conquest materials in blue non-max items, also the terrible RE chance). Edited November 1, 2019 by DawnAskham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsillah Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 My issue is if you happen to play healing Op / Scoundrel and that is your desired tactical (I don't so I don't care), you have no way of obtaining it without spending 100 million plus in credits, whereas most classes have their desirable tacticals as random drops and on a vendor for 1 million plus some tech fragments. Even if you have most of the materials, you will forgo 100 million in opportunity cost using the materials instead of selling them to others. That just isn't remotely balanced - even if it only cost 5 million in mats to craft versus spending 1 million plus fragments it would be slightly unbalanced - but 100 million versus 1 million is orders of magnitude out of whack. It would only bother me if the cost for such schems would be different from class to class. I noticed that the craftable ones are bind on legacy so presumably they're tradeable. So it's also something that you can potentially make money with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balameb Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 (edited) More lunacy... Agent / Smuggler healers have a tactical that is only available through crafting (schem currently on random vendor), however the materials requirements are ludicrous. 80 FP / Ops isotopes (a lot for sure - but only a million or two in GTN opportunity cost) 18 conquest materials (generally running ~3m per / starting to see some in the 2.5-3 range, still 45 million at low end) 20 legendary embers (~1 million each, so another 20 million) 15 purple assemblies (2,700 green materials, currently 10-15K each low end, so another 27 million minimum) Total - nearly 100 million or more in materials. Whoever thought this was acceptable is smoking too much crack. I don't want to scare you more, but i think you missed 20 more purple assembles. At least the one for sage/sorc in artifice reques 35 purple totals (both types): aka 12880 materials without counting criticals. Edited November 1, 2019 by Balameb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phalczen Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 (edited) The developer argument justifying the crafting changes on the basis of players sitting on boards of Jawa scrap is fallacious. That’s because the only fix needed for that was simply to do what they did with the cost of grade 11 stuff on the Jawa peddlers, make it 200 scrap per material. Those hoarders weren’t sitting on any stacks of grade 11 materials. Everything else about the changes affects crafters pretty equally, penalizing everyone. Hence there is some other agenda at play beyond the “players hoarding Jawa scrap” argument. Crafted Tacticals and set bonus shell boxes being unfairly distributed among advanced classes and disciplines is a different but related issue as well. It’s a broken system and we need a developer response. Edited November 1, 2019 by phalczen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsillah Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 (edited) I don't want to scare you more, but i think you missed 20 more purple assembles. At least the one for sage/sorc in artifice reques 35 purple totals (both types): aka 12880 materials without counting criticals. Yep there's 35 total. Not that dramatic in my view, but I did start by bringing all my crafters to 700 before doing anything else and my crafters all have at least a couple of r50 companions and the crafting crit perks unlocked. That makes all the difference. Edited November 1, 2019 by Tsillah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transcendent Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 (edited) Yep there's 35 total. Not that dramatic in my view, but I did start by bringing all my crafters to 700 before doing anything else and my crafters all have at least a couple of r50 companions and the crafting crit perks unlocked. That makes all the difference. I did the exact same when 6.0 launched (I'm actually still levelling a few...), which definitely helped on the material supply side of things. However 12k+ mats for one item is pretty daft. Instead of crafting this type of stuff for myself, I'll forgo it completely and ignore the expansion aside from story. Sold the mats, made quite a few credits doing so. The only things I probably will craft are some really basic stims / medpacs for personal use. Aside from that, forget it, it isn't worth the time and effort vs reward. I'll stick to my previous crafting stuff and leave Grade 11 well alone because it's such an epic fail from what I've seen of it. Still, at least Onderon and Mek-sha look and sound great when gathering. Edited November 1, 2019 by Transcendent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estelindis Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 (edited) I'll stick to my previous crafting stuff and leave Grade 11 well alone because it's such an epic fail from what I've seen of it. This is pretty much my decision too: at least 6.0 crafting didn't ruin grade 1-10 crafting. It did (without ruining) actually make the previous grades of crafting worse and more difficult in some ways, though. Now even missions of lower grades, e.g. grade six, have a chance of failing in spite of the skill being max'd at 700 and the companion being max'd at 50. In my experience, this never used to happen - before 6.0, companions didn't fail at missions except occasionally if it wasn't grey difficulty. I noticed something else though... One of the amplifiers that can be added to gear is "successful <crew skill>." That means they lowered our chance of success from what it was before and ask us to roll the credit-based dice to get our success chance higher again. Yet the opportunity to have crafting-based amplified sets was brought up as a perk of the new system, when spoils of war was first announced. In actual fact, it's more like stealing something of ours then asking us to pay to get it back. Edited November 1, 2019 by Estelindis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benirons Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 Yep there's 35 total. Not that dramatic in my view, but I did start by bringing all my crafters to 700 before doing anything else and my crafters all have at least a couple of r50 companions and the crafting crit perks unlocked. That makes all the difference. R u talking about the crit perks on the mods as amplifiers? How well do u find them working for u? I stacked a lot, but stuff like grade 11 blues and above have such an atrocious crit rate in practice compared to the basic green crafting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phalczen Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 R u talking about the crit perks on the mods as amplifiers? How well do u find them working for u? I stacked a lot, but stuff like grade 11 blues and above have such an atrocious crit rate in practice compared to the basic green crafting. No Tsillah means the legacy perks for crit chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnAskham Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 No Tsillah means the legacy perks for crit chance. Did they change the base crit chance before comp, legacy perk, and amplifier bonuses? I don't seem to get as many crits, as well as seem to fail missions at a higher rate than before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transcendent Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 One of the amplifiers that can be added to gear is "successful <crew skill>." That means they lowered our chance of success from what it was before and ask us to roll the credit-based dice to get our success chance higher again. I also noticed this "perk" and came to the same conclusion as you. As someone who has run crew mission skills a lot to get gemstones for crafting dyes in high volume and also relics, the failure rate of 1-10 seems to be higher than it was previously. Very rarely failed with rank 50 companions, of which I have a few.... Did they change the base crit chance before comp, legacy perk, and amplifier bonuses? I don't seem to get as many crits, as well as seem to fail missions at a higher rate than before. See the above, I think it has been changed (lowered). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benirons Posted November 2, 2019 Share Posted November 2, 2019 No Tsillah means the legacy perks for crit chance. Could u better explain to me what these legacy crit perks are? I honestly never heard them mentioned b4. Is it the legacy of crafting 1-3? I was under the assumption that it only helps with getting a free augment slot an a crafted wearable item. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthSpuds Posted November 2, 2019 Share Posted November 2, 2019 This is pretty much my decision too: at least 6.0 crafting didn't ruin grade 1-10 crafting Next patch will be them reworking crafting to make crafting material requirements "consistent across all tiers for simplicity". You heard it here first. Who'd bet on me being wrong? All The Best Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnAskham Posted November 2, 2019 Share Posted November 2, 2019 (edited) Has anyone collected enough data to say for sure whether they removed or significantly reduced base crit chance? As far as I recall, pre 6.0, base crit chance for yellow / green / grey was 15%, with a reduced 10% base for orange. So a rank 50 comp running a yellow / green / grey mission could reach 40% crit chance (15% base + 25% rank 50 bonus), with an additional 3% (43% total) for crafting (augment slot / extra item) with the legacy perk. Limited as my data may be, I do not seem to be getting 40+% crit chance on either missions or crafting. With all the other effective nerfs to crafting, I wouldn't put it past them to have removed or lowered base crit chance. Edited November 2, 2019 by DawnAskham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VeryFarAway Posted November 2, 2019 Share Posted November 2, 2019 Next patch will be them reworking crafting to make crafting material requirements "consistent across all tiers for simplicity". You heard it here first. Who'd bet on me being wrong? I will bet on you being wrong, for the sole reason that BW don't tend to go back and meddle in content from previous expansions when they could instead be working on content for their current or next cycle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerileth Posted November 2, 2019 Share Posted November 2, 2019 All green level materials equal their level in jawa junk credits but level 11 jumps to 200? Bioware what was the point in doing this? Might have well been 2000. Who would/could buy those? As expensive as it is to craft anything now, buying 2 or 3 of those items is worthless. Crafting needs a serious patch/ fix. Seriously, Keith, you should be ashamed. Over 8 years I've pumped money into your game. A little competence would be appreciated. This is ludicrous. If you guys are going to go on vacation and leave the game like this, maybe you should be ready to go work in the Dora Explorer division. You might not have a game to come back to next year. Maybe it is time to go into maintenance mode. Does even one developer play this game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gytheran Posted November 2, 2019 Share Posted November 2, 2019 How about that garbage synthweaving armor set(that says an 'armormech set bonus') crafted via the token from the weekend vendor that requires 22 Matrices, 30 embers, and 35 purple synthweaving components? And for what? An uninteresting general inquisitor set that NO ONE will ever un-ironically use. This claimed to be one thing, was something completely different, and is not remotely usable when so many other options are available. The set involves resetting whirlwind after killing someone affected by whirlwind... seriously? I hate to think the Dev's idea of fun is making a virtually worthless item requiring over 6,000 archaeology materials and 150m worth of exotics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transcendent Posted November 2, 2019 Share Posted November 2, 2019 (edited) Has anyone collected enough data to say for sure whether they removed or significantly reduced base crit chance? I've pretty much stopped crafting aside from trying to level my grade 11 stims / medpacs / adrenals to purples, so i'm not running missions for anything earlier currently (or even crafting anything of note). I'd like to say it was an enjoyable experience. It isn't. Honestly I don't know for sure, it just seems to be more failures since 6.0 compared to running 8 missions and getting 8 good results pretty consistently prior to 6.0. As an aside, the amount of materials I'm receiving for TH are still consistent with prior to 6.0, so something is slightly off if the fail rate has increased. I doubt BioWare will confirm or deny either way. Edited November 2, 2019 by Transcendent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerileth Posted November 2, 2019 Share Posted November 2, 2019 They should have followed Bethesda’s logic and added a $100 monthly subscription to just crafting. In the game developing world these days, that would have made sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estelindis Posted November 2, 2019 Share Posted November 2, 2019 They should have followed Bethesda’s logic and added a $100 monthly subscription to just crafting. In the game developing world these days, that would have made sense. Oh look, you've found it, the one remaining way to make 6.0 crafting even worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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